at least he didn't join the nation of islam. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: PEJ said: I like the preaching cuz to me it ain't preaching its just telling it how he sees it. BTW I am not by any means a JW not even if he came to my front door. and that's the bottom line right there ..because one's spirtial plane doesn't mesh with another's then the whole "preaching" aspect comes 2 it. i find it funny that some will say the "preaching" on lovesexy they don't mind but on TRC they do. contridictions r abundant. and 4 the record..I LOVE THIS ALBUM from beginning 2 end Co-sign!!! | |
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stanleylieber said: at least he didn't join the nation of islam.
OMG CAN YOU IMAGINE THE ATROCITY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN????? | |
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stanleylieber said: L4OATheOriginal said: love of god vs the love of jehovah? all people are equal vs the theocratic order. all people are equal vs all the important people in the bible were black and white people have been pulling them down since the hyksos displaced the old dynasty. all people are equal vs "the accurate knowledge of god's law" creating a class system with the baptized on top and those who don't know "the truth" on the bottom. prince had been working up to this since 1992 but it finally emerged in full form in 2000/2001. the dude used to preach love and now he preaches the sanctity of the theocratic order. it might not make much difference to you, but it makes a difference to me. so in essence every other organized religion vs ur own personal choice of belief man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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stanleylieber said: OldFriends4Sale said: That's how I saw it too, I didn't see any attack on Jewish people i don't see it as a list. prince asks, "would you rather..." -- that's not a list. he's comparing black slavery to the holocaust and saying black slavery was worse. i don't c it that way, but if there is one he would more associate with, it would b slavery. but still i belive he's saying that both acts were just as horrible so either "choice" would still result in the same disturbing occurances man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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It is one of his musically most intelligent albums along with SOTT | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: stanleylieber said: all people are equal vs the theocratic order. all people are equal vs all the important people in the bible were black and white people have been pulling them down since the hyksos displaced the old dynasty. all people are equal vs "the accurate knowledge of god's law" creating a class system with the baptized on top and those who don't know "the truth" on the bottom. prince had been working up to this since 1992 but it finally emerged in full form in 2000/2001. the dude used to preach love and now he preaches the sanctity of the theocratic order. it might not make much difference to you, but it makes a difference to me. so in essence every other organized religion vs ur own personal choice of belief remember what we're talking about here. we're talking about why some folks find prince's new philosophy distasteful and why they might have a problem with the lyrical content of 'trc.' i'm not saying prince has to change. i'm explaining how 'trc' is different from 'lovesexy,' and why i can get behind the message of 'lovesexy' even though i don't believe in god. 'trc' doesn't leave me that option, because so much of its logic rests on assumptions i'm not willing to accept. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: L4OATheOriginal said: so in essence every other organized religion vs ur own personal choice of belief remember what we're talking about here. we're talking about why some folks find prince's new philosophy distasteful and why they might have a problem with the lyrical content of 'trc.' i'm not saying prince has to change. i'm explaining how 'trc' is different from 'lovesexy,' and why i can get behind the message of 'lovesexy' even though i don't believe in god. 'trc' doesn't leave me that option, because so much of its logic rests on assumptions i'm not willing to accept. the reason folks can't accept prince's philosphy is because he's now a JW. and in this world that we live in, there is a distain from those that belive in that faith where as christianity is more accepted point of view. so in way u could say it's JW's belief system vs the christians (TRC vs Lovesexy). how many times have u seen post on the org from people cursing out the JW faith and anyone that practices that faith? 2 many 2 count and the same goes 4 how people relate prince's every move since he chose that faith. Prince is a hero 2 a lot of people on here and 2 hear their hero "dis" them makes them angry. when the trc children 1st came out, i thought he made the mistake of releasing this album as opposed 2 the tracks on the npgmc, but i'm really glad he did cause 4 me i find a lot of spirtual uplifting in it. no i'm not a JW nor part of any organized religion. i just took just the love of God that is being presented just as i did with lovesexy. but if u or anyone else doesn't like the album that's fine. i just think that one's own personal relationship with religion sparks so much disgust 4 this album and not being truthful on y they hate this album. man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: when the trc children 1st came out, i thought he made the mistake of releasing this album as opposed 2 the tracks on the npgmc, but i'm really glad he did cause 4 me i find a lot of spirtual uplifting in it. no i'm not a JW nor part of any organized religion. i just took just the love of God that is being presented just as i did with lovesexy. but if u or anyone else doesn't like the album that's fine. i just think that one's own personal relationship with religion sparks so much disgust 4 this album and not being truthful on y they hate this album. personally i love the album. i dislike the lyrical content. i find the music itself uplifting while the message just makes me angry. i think i understand what you're saying but i don't think anyone is obligated to justify or even articulate their dislike of a cd of popular music. a person doesn't need a "reason," so to speak. if they don't like it, then they don't like it. honestly, the same is true if they do like it. there is no accounting for taste. i don't see much point in trying to "prove" to someone that they don't understand their own tastes. i've tried to articulate the reasons why 'trc' gives me a weird feeling in my stomach while 'lovesexy' just feels positive in almost every way. the comparison with 'lovesexy' was put forward as an argument for why the preaching on 'trc' shouldn't bother people. well, the preaching on 'trc' is qualitatively different than that on 'lovesexy.' they're not the same thing at all. the message is very different, and i think it's that different message that bothers some people, myself included. i don't believe in god. 'lovesexy' does not offend me. 'trc' offends me. i still like both albums. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: at least he didn't join the nation of islam.
if he did and made an album would that message make you angry too? To Sir, with Love | |
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PEJ said: stanleylieber said: at least he didn't join the nation of islam.
if he did and made an album would that message make you angry too? only because it's prince. maybe if he rapped it that would be okay. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: at least he didn't join the nation of islam.
They are no worse than the JW Both groups are created and controlled by the same people. As malcolm x said. All religious groups are there to CONTROL and manipulate. | |
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ernestsewell said: stanleylieber said: at least he didn't join the nation of islam.
OMG CAN YOU IMAGINE THE ATROCITY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN????? Whoa. "A Man Can't Ride Your Back Unless It's Bent" MLK 4/3/68 | |
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saafiir said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: There is no preaching on Lovesexy.
Co-sign. (First sorry for my english!) THE PREACHER In the time when I made listen to Lovesexy around me I still remember persons who weren't into the mystic of the album and preferred for most part a title like "Alphabet Street". I would'nt say that there's no difference between the 2 albums... but what I notice it is that they are 2 only "real" concept albums of its work and I do not think whether it is a fate if Prince finds us with Rainbow Children where he left us with Lovesexy. Lovesexy "The Genesis" speaks about its meeting and its progress: "Save me Jesus, I've been a fool How could I forget that U are the rule U are my God, I am Your child From now on, 4 U I shall be wild I shall be quick I shall be strong I'll tell Your story, no matter how long (no matter how... no matter)..." - Anna Steisia Rainbow Children "The Revelation" is the fulfillment of this progress: "When I was lost and couldn't c my way I used 2 follow what everybody say Now I know that it's written in the heart Now I'm ready, ready 2 start Without God it wasn't there Now I feel it Everywhere" - Everywhere Where is the contradiction ? IMO there's nothing new... the fact is that "Prince is a Preacher": "Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses As we forgive those who trespass against us Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever" - Controversy "Dearly beloved We are gathered here today 2 get through this thing called life Electric word life It means forever and that's a mighty long time But I'm here 2 tell u There's something else The afterworld" - Let's Go Crazy "We all have our problems Some are BIG, some are small Soon all of our problems, y'all Will be taken by the cross" - The Cross "I've seen the future and it will be I've seen the future and it works And if there's life after, we will see So I can't go like a jerk" - The Futur "Love the one who is love, the one who gives us the power The one who made everything, elephants and flowers The one who will listen when all others will not There will be peace 4 those who love god a lot" - Elephants & Flowers "Thunder all thru the night Promise to see Jesus in the morning light Take my hand, it'll be alright C'mon save your soul tonight" - Thunder "Lord I might get tired, But I, I've got 2 keep on (we sacrifice) Walkin' down this road, (we sacrifice) Keep on walkin' down this road (joy around the corner) When I reach my destination (we sacrifice) My name will be Victor Amen" - The Sacrifice Of Victor "Who gave U life when there was none at all? Who gave the sun permission 2 rise up everyday? (Ooh, oh yes) Let me tell it (Go'n) If U ask God 2 love U longer Every breath U take will make U stronger Keepin' U happy (happy) and proud 2 call His name (Go'n and say it) Jesus (Jesus)" - The Holy River "Push it up, push it up 2 the sky U don't have 2 have a plane 2 fly If U listen 2 the truth and not the lie Stop cryin', cryin' In harmony, can't U see Every color all in the same key And that's the way Jah wants us 2 be Start tryin', a-tryin' " - Push It Up "Do U love your brother? (Everyday, everyday) Do U love your sister? (Everyday, everyday) Do U love us? (Everyday, everyday) Do U love God? (Everyday, everyday)" - Everyday Is A Winding Road You said no preachin'... !? OK, Prince has always been a preacher. No argument there. In the past he didn't bash people over the head to deliver the message! He just gave them an album and left them be . [Edited 5/4/09 9:57am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Dragging the Holocaust into the crime against black slaves was unneccessary and the subjegation of women is in there. I'll let him address the rest 2 great horrors of human history one down 2 those of jewish faith and one due 2 skin tone..so it's listing 2 injustices of mankind But then he goes on to ask would you rather be dead or a slave. Nobody should ever have to answer that question! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: This album is not and never will be Lovesexy. The only people who will get somethnig from this spiritually are the already converted. Lovesexy was my best friend's favorite Prince album and she is an antheist that would cook live children in a church to show how much she rejects god There is no point of commonality within most of the lyrics.
That said, contrast this between Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic and Musicology which came before and after. If people can't see the musical brilliance based on that alone, they simply are dead Then a zombie I must be because I don't see it. Hi Zombie! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: L4OATheOriginal said: 2 great horrors of human history one down 2 those of jewish faith and one due 2 skin tone..so it's listing 2 injustices of mankind But then he goes on to ask would you rather be dead or a slave. Nobody should ever have to answer that question! it's still an irrelevant question posed tho. the answer is no 2 either one thus u want 2 choose life man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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goodlookingmofo said: stanleylieber said: at least he didn't join the nation of islam.
They are no worse than the JW Both groups are created and controlled by the same people. As malcolm x said. All religious groups are there to CONTROL and manipulate. Their rhetoric is a little more blatantly hateful. (Latter day Malcolm is my favorite Malcolm) it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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Curious, can someone please point me to the detailed analysis about Lotusflower?
Thanks! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Curious, can someone please point me to the detailed analysis about Lotusflower?
Thanks! www.prince.org | |
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ernestsewell said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Curious, can someone please point me to the detailed analysis about Lotusflower?
Thanks! www.prince.org Nah, that place is mostly people telling each other they aren't "true fans." it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: ernestsewell said: Nah, that place is mostly people telling each other they aren't "true fans." Yeah, and don't get them riled up about The Rainbow Children either, cuz .....oops. Are we there already? | |
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stanleylieber said: goodlookingmofo said: They are no worse than the JW Both groups are created and controlled by the same people. As malcolm x said. All religious groups are there to CONTROL and manipulate. Their rhetoric is a little more blatantly hateful. (Latter day Malcolm is my favorite Malcolm) really? jw are VERY hateful. They HATE gay people and say anyone not believing their religion should be BANISHED. the RC is a disgusting, hate filled album. | |
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goodlookingmofo said: jw are VERY hateful. They HATE gay people and say anyone not believing their religion should be BANISHED.
the RC is a disgusting, hate filled album. [Edited 5/6/09 7:09am] | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: L4OATheOriginal said: 2 great horrors of human history one down 2 those of jewish faith and one due 2 skin tone..so it's listing 2 injustices of mankind But then he goes on to ask would you rather be dead or a slave. Nobody should ever have to answer that question! Right, but many have. He doesn't say that either. He says would you rather be dead or be SOLD ? | |
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stanleylieber said: goodlookingmofo said: They are no worse than the JW Both groups are created and controlled by the same people. As malcolm x said. All religious groups are there to CONTROL and manipulate. Their rhetoric is a little more blatantly hateful. (Latter day Malcolm is my favorite Malcolm) Because "latter day Malcolm" was speaking the Truth after his pilgrimage 2 Mecca. He spoke out, publicly, against Elijah Mohammad's The Nation of Islam, and even called him out 4 several things... knocking up some secretaries, 4 example. He also said (publicly) that Elijah Mohammad wasn't even teaching Islamic principles. Being a Taurus, Malcolm X was always going 2 seek the Truth, and in a determined way. Not easy 2 stop a Bull, but The Nation of Islam HAD 2. Everyone knows it was the "honorable" Elijah Mohammad that ordered the hit on Malcolm X. Farrakhan was involved as well. As 4 'The Rainbow Children'... it is simply one of the best works of Prince. Musically brilliant, with a continuous storyline. The song sequencing and flow R perfect. [Edited 5/6/09 6:59am] "He's a musician's musician..." | |
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Dayclear said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: But then he goes on to ask would you rather be dead or a slave. Nobody should ever have to answer that question! Right, but many have. He doesn't say that either. He says would you rather be dead or be SOLD ? so he should have wrote another line in the song 2 satisfy those that might have been offended instead of realizing what is already implied? man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: Dayclear said: Right, but many have. He doesn't say that either. He says would you rather be dead or be SOLD ? so he should have wrote another line in the song 2 satisfy those that might have been offended instead of realizing what is already implied? What he was [b]implying[/i] is that black slavery was worse than the Jewish Holocaust. That the Holocaust would be preferable to slavery. None of us knows what goes on in Prince's mind but the lyrics seem clear enough. Context clues. Listen to the whole album. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: L4OATheOriginal said: so he should have wrote another line in the song 2 satisfy those that might have been offended instead of realizing what is already implied? What he was [b]implying[/i] is that black slavery was worse than the Jewish Holocaust. That the Holocaust would be preferable to slavery. None of us knows what goes on in Prince's mind but the lyrics seem clear enough. Context clues. Listen to the whole album. again he's a african american ..so the whole slavery issue would hit more at home with him or any one culture when it comes 2 either events of history..i've listend 2 the album many a times and still stand by that it's a great peice of art and would cue it up faster than i would say lovesexy which i do love as well. man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: stanleylieber said: What he was implying[/i] is that black slavery was worse than the Jewish Holocaust. That the Holocaust would be preferable to slavery. None of us knows what goes on in Prince's mind but the lyrics seem clear enough. Context clues. Listen to the whole album. again he's a african american ..so the whole slavery issue would hit more at home with him or any one culture when it comes 2 either events of history..i've listend 2 the album many a times and still stand by that it's a great peice of art and would cue it up faster than i would say lovesexy which i do love as well. Please forgive my misapplied BBCode. I agree it's a great album, I just don't care for a great deal of the lyrical message. It's okay if we disagree about our interpretations; we could both be wrong! [b][Edited 5/6/09 13:06pm] it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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