The supreme NPGMC thread well said...

I agree on several of your points & I disagree with others.Very well stated.

Now for my observations...

Prince could release 12 albums worth of killer music and the average ORG poster will not be satisfied.3 years ago people wanted a record like SOTT.When it was released,to some,it was the biggest flop.Last year the people wanted the experimental Prince,the avant-guard Prince .When they got it ..."he's preachy,I want the 1999 Prince,the "Iwish he would release a live album folks.

Now we have the live album? More complants about it,but folks would buy the album from a bootlegger ?

Enjoy what you have because tomorrow you might want something else.

I think some people are taking a "NPGMC" vs. "fans" approach in this discussion. It's the George W Bush speech of "You're either with us or against us!" Discussions aren't black and white, the answer is usually somewhere in the middle.

Some people are discarding what FunkyBrotha has to say about the contract we agreed to. The contract didn't really promise any specific products. However, according to the contract, we got what we paid for.

Whether we're happy with it or not is another issue. But FunkyBrotha is correct in what he's explaining.

And the whole idea of a "true fan" that Nate describes is more George W Bush style manipulation. When Prince announces a show in my town, should I not join because Mike in Lima probably won't have a chance to see a show? Cuz I'm supposed to change the club for the good of mankind? It's entertainment, it's not war we're talking about here! If we put this energy into real activism against violence, poverty, and terrorism, imagine what we could accomplish.

I plan to wait before joining the club. Since a world tour is very unlikely, I'll have to see what the club will have to offer.

And I'll read the membership agreement very carefully, and maybe save it on my hard drive somewhere, just in case it changes.

If people don't renew their memberships right away, I think that will send a strong message.

divo02 said:

DITTO.

Also, I joined year one in April. I paid extra to get March and Feb. downloads. But my membership ended in February so in order to go to the March concert as a npgmc member, I had to renew my membership in February. This means that my year one membership lasted less than one year. I should not have had to pay for those two extra months. But I am not unhappy with the npgmc overall. But $100 is alot of money!

At the end of year two I can say I am satisfied. I did not get a tour in my city (Philadelphia), but i could have chose to go to NY. With classes and work that wasn't possible. In life, sometimes you have to settle for a little inconvenience or dissapointment...even when you've paid for a service.
Was i always happy with service, products, responses, etc. from NPGMC? No. Am I always happy with my telephone service or internet provider? No. But i still use them because the pros are stronger than the cons. This may not be so for some of you. Not re-joining, or at least waiting things out, would probably be the best thing for you to do. I am not one of these "Prince can do no wrong" types. I am a realist though, and i understand about cities being skipped out on (if he played Philly he might not have had to skip a date in Europe or Japan, and they've waited longer than me). I also understand that projects turn into other projects and change once again.
No one is wrong for any of their feelings here. I do see a lot of people who complain about anything that is not EXACTLY the way they want it and that is just selfish and immature...even if you've paid for that service. A lot of speculation goes on here at the org and i feel many people get suckered into believing that speculation. Then, they are dissapointed when things don't turn out that way. If you have not been satisfied by the club, let them know. Let them know by standing by your feelings and DON'T join again, or at least until things are settled and changed.
I will join again and i am sure i won't be the only one. But that doesn't mean anythin to you if you feel ripped off. So tell them you feel ripped off. If NPGMC wants to change and keep the members who were not happy, they will. Otherwise, just pick up the discs when they hit retail and buy the tickets when they go on general sale. No business is ever perfect, including Prince's. People must realize that.

FunkyBrotha said:

eye hope so funkybrotha

Though I have been to more then 10 shows, 2 aftershows and recieved all the albums this year I am with Nate. This is als so true. Prince keeps lacking his agreements or promises. It has never been different, I don't really care as long as the music is right, but in my opinion Prince is lost! Flame me if u want, my freedom of speech is already taken away from me anyway!!!
[This message was edited Mon Dec 9 23:50:49 PST 2002 by Stylecipation]

Get a dog

Well Put Nate.

Besides, I don't understand why some people are so damn
defensive when you talk about this stuff.

All people are saying is that they felt like we were
promised some things and then never got them.

If 90% of the people thought we would get those 4 albums
they mentioned and now feel slightly let down since we
probably won't get them, why would anyone want to get so
worked up about that and start shouting that Prince never
did promise us anything?

If it's gonna be like that, they might as well just not
put up any information anymore at all. Just a pure black
screen and a box to tick in your creditcard nr.

now that is not making any promises.

The way I see it it is very simple, after all, it is only
about some music. Very good music, but still just music.

So why then, if they print titles 4 albums and even give
us 2 downloads [m2c and breathe] from one of those albums
do we have to split hairs over what was said exactly and
what info was in which email and what was in the contract.

If your parents used to tell you "you'll get new shoes"
did you just wait and wait and wait before you got excited
or did you expect them to buy you a new pair of shoes?

And what if they'd told you "we're gonna go out and buy
you some new shoes" and consequently made you wait another
9 months before they would actually buy them for you?

Would you say "ok, you're right, I don't deserve new shoes
right now" just becuz your mom would say "I said you'd
get new shoes, I didn't say you'd get them now".

Same thing here. It was reasonable to expect those albums
and it shouldn't end up this way, where people whom are
all fans of the same thing are hitting eachother over the
head because of this very thing. Quoting contracts and
small print, finding loop holes to prove and nail their
own theories.

Whatever happened to common sense?

So in other words you want us to become the e version of Warner Brothers.

NATE's POST RULES PERIOD!

I've wanted 2 say things like this myself, but any attempt to do so, and i get shot down in flames.(called whinging bitch)

Im not a member, simply for the fact that i know the old promote / state a item and time and time again, it never sees the light of day.

I also smelt a rat when days before year 2 sign up there was a chat session where it was stated "Australia is a beautiful place, enquiries r being made". To me, I knew that here in Australia we haven't seen a Prince tour in over 10 years, so why would someone in Australia sign up with talk of a tour? That statement alone got alot of members in this country 2 sign up. I held out.

Now I voice my concerns for my fellow Australian members (even though im not a member) because I think thatUS$100 (AUS$200) is alot of money for what was delivered and what people in other parts of the world got out of the club for the same value.

If the club has one joining price, then the members should get equal value from that. If it can't deliver that ( and it can't), then some sort of format (like a "user pays" system) should replace the current club.

and sure it's great his indi, but at least when he was at a label, they picked up the cost of it all. Now the fans are the brunt of all the costs.

Im really happy for the people who thought they got value for money for years 1 & 2, but the current club is not working in it's current form, and something has to be done before year 3 starts.

If it was done right from the outset, imagine how many members would be apart of this club

popgodazipa said:

"Us"? Please tell me you are NPGMC!

Regardless, If you are asking, should the NPGMC become a e-version of Warner Brother, I assume you are saying prince will be under contact to us, having to release CDs when he said he would?

Good.

If he wants our money up front.

If Prince doesn't like contracts, he shouldn't make us sign one. Its simple.

Simple way round this. No members fee, we choose to buy each album as he makes it available.

That is what freedom sounds like, no CON for him, no CON for us.

great post nate

have you sent this to npgmc ?

Nate said:

AMEN 2 THAT!!!

If we strip back the current set up to the basics, Prince has become the master, and we have become the slaves (in Prince's contract terms).

Sure we didn't have to sign up, but neither did Prince have to sign up in 93. He did it based on expectation, promises, and most of all, gain.

We sign us for gain. To music, shows and belonging.

The difference is, Warner said to Prince "business is business".

Prince is saying to us "You are in a great experiment"

Either way, he wants his cake and eat it, and our hard earned money is the cake mix.

But not everyone is getting a fair slice.

Maybe we should all start wrting "Slave" of our cheeks!

I'm as torn as I've always been about the club.

While I am one of the satisfied customers & am considering joining year 3, I know full well the club hasn't fulfilled every implied "promise". I do feel bad for those who live in cities/countries where the tour didn't slide through. I feel for those who feel dissatisfied (within reason). I STILL want the Xenophobia album - am I crazy or was that dangled in my face @ some point?

On the other hand, I have to ask: if you live in a city/country where Prince has rarely (if ever) played, did you not know you were taking a risk by joining? If five people from Bumfuck, Idaho sign up, can he REALLY be expected to take an entire tour there?

I dunno, maybe they should answer inquiries about how many members exist in a certain area & what the chances are of having a show there. I know any kind of definitive information from them is impossible to get, but it would make sense to say, "if there are 100 members or more in a given area, they'll get a show." I don't know what the # should be (50? 150?), maybe it's a silly idea, but I think it's equally silly to throw down $100 without considering the obvious risks.

I'm fortunate to live in the Bay Area, he ALWAYS plays here - even with that "safety net", I STILL waited until a date was announced to join (in year 1). I just happened to luck out w/ the circumstances, I know everyone's situation isn't that simple but that's where the risk comes in & that's where you've gotta take responsibility for taking that risk.

Yes I'm disappointed that Xenophobia & Madrid2 aren't in my hands right now, but I'm also giddy knowing my ONA Live is being sent to me as we speak (hopefully??). The club is too flexible with it's rules & promises, implications & offers - that definitely needs to change. Maybe they think it's better to be vague so we can't hold them to anything. I think if they were up front about things, people would know what to expect going in & there would be less disappointment. If they can't tell us exactly what we'll get, say that. I don't know how many people will sign up, lol... Maybe the real lesson here is that Prince needs to bite the bullet & be forced to stick with a definite business plan mapped out for the coming year, or face giving out refunds... the whole planning is difficult for an artist like him, but he's choosing to make $ from his art & once you start dealing w/ consumers...

I was already planning to hold out a bit for year 3 & see what the deal is this time around. I'm still willing to do that especially if it's part of a massive effort for improvement. I'm not nitpicky, I don't think "Prince can do no wrong". I'm just in need of the music & want all this to remain fun for me & as many folks as possible. We'll never ALL be satisfied, but the amount of bitching about the club (at least on this site) is pretty alarming...

Nate said:

THANK YOU!

well if u havent got the 4cds yet, plz email them and tell them that dont moan 2 ppl like me who think the npgmc was great this year! i got my cds i got the celebration i got the ona tour, i got everything so i dont believe that everyone should bully npgmc 2 give us more than we should get! but obviously if i hadnt gotten the above stuff, i would b emailing them!

ive emailed them b4 with serious stuff like accessing the site during presales and they were a great help! i got my member seats after the presale had finished!

Thanks Nate for your very intelligent and objective post on this topic.

I agree that communication between the buyer and seller needs to improve so that disappointment is minute.

I don't think anyone here really wants to "sue" Prince or the NPGMC, I think that everyone wants what was implied.

What was implied and what we received are two different things entirely.

I'm not a law student and don't proclaim to be law saavy, but I think an implied contract is just as strong in court as an actual signed contract.

Again, I don't think anyone wants to sue, I think people would like to have clear, concise communication on what they're paying for.

Maybe Funkybrotha is just trying out his arguing skills here for class.

CalhounSq said:

Totally ditto.

Its the likes of Oz, Brazil and Spain I feel for.

More importantly, I think we should petition Prince to play Bumfuck Idaho. Lets see him get his purple map out and find it

I am very happy with my first years membership.
Where does someone get the time to type out such a long and moaning post as above.
If you are not part of the club - you cant complain.
If you are part of the club - complain through the proper channels

Nate said:

Nobody believes this phoney Warner Bros was Evil BullSh*t Anymore!!

AOL/WB/Artista/Sony/MTV is made up of thousands of hard working people and stockholders. There's no such thing as an evil overlord (Lovesign Video) like in Princes dreams.

Nate.. great post but is that the best that you can do with your words of gold is 2 post them on the org? Or maybe try the infamous "send a petition to the club"?

Please shorten it, Give it a powerful Headline and send it to the editor of a major publication. Look I believe that Prince is a good man. Have we all considered that perhaps its very possible that he doesn't see this viewpoint. I have seen CEOs of American companys back n the day.. walk around completely unaware of what was going on around them. I would send this post up the flagpole my friend.

early 90s - prince signs a contract with WB. A couple years later, he argues that they didnt give him what he was promised. but under the contract he signed with them (without carefully reading) they are legally covered. prince rallys his fans to treat wb as the bad guy.

a decade later - fans sign up for a prince music club, sending him money, which enters them into a contract. at the end of the year a significant amount begin to argue that the club did not give them what was promised. detractors argue that the club is legally covered and call these people whiners.

Was poor prince, sitting in his multimillion dollar recording studio and house(s) a whiner too?
[This message was edited Tue Dec 10 5:23:46 PST 2002 by Tom]

It's too long for me to read, so I'll just agree and hope you were right

Bren1 said:

So for you, its a case of "I'm all right jack, but the rest of you should shut up".

Thats fine, nail you flag to the post. But equally, you are saying your peace, but you don't want other people saying theirs, if doesn't agree with you.

Ignorance is bliss?

Don't come to the thread.

Has anyone notice how the many members who are happy, slap down those who are not, but those who are not, do not slap down the members who are?

They only slap the club that didn't deliver for them.

Where I came from, that can be known as bullying and childishness.

By the way, are you telling people to report NPGMC to the BBB then? That is the proper channel if they cannot get a response from the NPGMC.

Savannah said:

I might write to them, obviously, not in the the form above, as that is a more rambling post. If I do, I'll post it sometime, because I don't want to speak on other peoples behalf, if I'm totally wrong.

PS.
Yes NPGMC did not honor the agreement, scrambled to remove things from the website and could be in serious legal trouble if they continue with the sarcasm on the website but even more powerful is..

The PRESS

One word about this mess hits a major publication and Prince and his whole con operation is finished.

The natives are getting restless..

ThE TrUtH

but its this type of thread that gets this website D/O/S attacked Use caution

Great thread, brilliantly written. The best so far. Nobody arguing that Prince has delivered has written such a piece so this easily goes to the top of the pile.

Good work!