FunkyBrotha said:

a namecheck and maybe a table dance

FunkyBrotha said:

Are you speaking to me? I shall repeat my response to your previous post:

OK, I quote "join the NPGMC and access these CDs"
As I understand it, membership lasts for a year and time is almost up, so how have the members who joined "to access these CDs" actually "accessed" them? you seem to be oh so more reliably informed than the rest of us. Please explain your post.


As I said, please explain this as I understand the tour book you quoted from did not mention ONAL, but 4 seperate projects, am I right?

I KNOW WHAT UR SAYING THE TOURBOOK DID NOT SAY U WILL RECEIVE ONA STUDIO, ONA LIVE double cd, IT AINT OVER! but the tourbook has nothing to do with the contract which u effectively agreed to when u signed up, its totally unrelated, its not even an advertisement, its "an invitation to treat" oh my god! ru like 5 yrs old or something, im sorry if u r!

FunkyBrotha said:

There were actually several initations to treat. The original renewal, the programme advert, the web page. All are Invitations to treat.

The contract is not an invitation to treat. If you are studying it, have you covered the Argos Internet cockup, as an example?

Its about the offer, and acceptance, not the contract. Th contract can be overruled.

FunkyBrotha said:

Are you affiliated in anyway with Paisley Park-Prince?

Hi Nate,

I dont often post, but you laid it out so well I had to add my backing.

Just to make things clear for the Village Idiots that continue to say "Stop moaning" in their pathetic monotone drawl whilst playing banjo on the front of their papa's pickup, here's my experience of NPGMC which I think summarises Nate's post and makes it clear, even for the terminally imbecilic.

I have received ONA and ONA live for my $100. That's it. I like them both (I wont say I love them, but they are okay, and worth $100 to me)

However, when I got my email at the end of Year 1 it did not say

"NPGMC will put up two downloads you've heard before, send you a CD of Piano music, some of which you already had as part of your Year 1 membership, and send you a 3 CD live set next December"

Because it implied I would be getting 4 cds of material this year, I signed up.

I feel disappointed and a little misled.

I dont know what the answer is, but I do remember this : When the club started up at the beginning of 2002, the majority of people were not debating about whether 4 CDs meant 4 seperate albums or 4 actual discs, they were saying "It says at LEAST 4 ! I bet Prince sends us One Night Alone, Xenophobia, Best of O+>, and Last December during the year, and then SURPRISES us with an extra CD at the end of the membership !"

That's what people were hoping for.

If only we'd known back then what we know now.

Fandango

"thats what we were hoping 4" that would b prince exceeding his contractual obligations!

i do agree it was shit that we didnt get 3CDs til december and i hope that doesnt happen next year, and i do agree that things could have been done better but that doesnt mean u can sue him!

i do know about the argos case but thats got nothing 2 do with this situation, that was a price difference between an item instore and online!

u have 2 b careful coz u r not protected by the law as much on the internet as u r in other situations

what does it matter if i work 4 paisley or not, im speaking the truth, even tho i have lied about my identity!

join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!



Obviously I do have a mind of a five year old because no matter how many times I look at those words I still see "join the npgmc and access these cds!", not the obvious and apparently legal "Join the npgmc and fuck no, you're not getting these cds!"

I will try once more...

join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!
join the npgmc and access these cds!


No, it still looks like an advertisement to me and the wording is still "join the npgmc and access these cds". I guess I'd better go and check out Cartoon Network".

All hail King Nate, a genuine voice of reason and objectivity.

Nate, you're wasting your time with people like FunkyBrother. trust me I know. I still have blisters on my fingers from trying to explain to these people the very same things that you have - and in many cases better than i did. You'll clearly and specifically list precise issues and recieve "What did you expect?!! For Prince to perofrm at your wedding and deliver the CD's in person??" or the reaction form the post directly below this one. I'll say it once more, I expected exactly what they advertised; nothing more, nothing less, and anyone who can't understand that (or Nate's letter) has a major problem -

After a while, you'll just go beat your head against a wall and decide to leave the club to Prince's "true" fans.
[This message was edited Mon Dec 9 18:22:23 PST 2002 by IamTheDJ]

whats so funny these things may happen:

a: You will sign up again and complain.
b: Prince will shut it down and you will complain even more.
c: He will release Xenophobia and you will complain that an instrumental is not an album of music.
d: Prince will try to continue to improve, but you will still complain.
e: You will always complain, until prince arrives at your door with a watchtower to give you a blo job.

Thank you Nate for your post. You are right on. You did not go down the road of complaining about everything or praising everything Mr. Prince does. And you put a very positive spin on it: requesting folks to say something so that the club can be better next year. . . to ask polite questions. Again, Nate, thank you.

I really cannot believe that people are saying that Prince did not promise these 4 discs (Best of , Last December, One Nite Alone, and Xenophobia). It simply states in the One Nite Alone tourbook: Join the NPG Music Club 2002. Access these new CDs. . . and other magnificent stuff. How is that not a promise? At least most folks when promised Crystal Ball (there are still some who say that they have not received their ordered copy!) received it and not something totally different. . . We were promised 4 discs when joining the club this year, the names of said discs were publicized in the tourbook, and we have seen only one of these so far. Unless you want to argue that "Last December" is this One Nite Alone Live set (even though the song doesn't appear on it). There is no way that we received "Xenophobia" or "The Best of "

Argue that one Funky Brotha
[This message was edited Mon Dec 9 18:07:18 PST 2002 by floralelephants]

the "what did u expect" comment is exactly what u will get from any courtroom, mayb prince will turn up in court and he'll kiss u and make up! bet u'd love that guys!

floral ur obviously not of the legal mind and there4 u dont know what ur talkin about, ill forgive u!!

prince did not PROMISE anything except 4 cd's i hope u get them all!!

eye have 2 say that when it comes 2 getting 4 cds eye would have preffered 2 have recieved the 4 new albums rather than the live box, but overall eye am pretty happy with the cd side of things.

BUT, what eye am not really happy about is the fact that the club advertised a world tour and promoters here in Australia were in eye believe negotiations with Prince 2 perform here and it never happened, so eye have 2 say that the clubs fullfillments were not met with me and with alot of Aussies compared 2 more people with around the world cause u americans, europeans and japanses all got 2 see him live in a soundcheck and in a concert which is what eye wanted more than anything else that this club offered if there was a tour 2 take place. instead all eye have recieved is just 4 cds just like alot of other aussies here.
if ure going 2 advertise a world tour then tour the world, not just parts of it or whatever country makes it worth while 4 u.

eye would give the club a 45/100 becuase like eye said my main reason 4 joining was the the chance of him coming here and the chance 2 see him up close and personal in a soundcheck and concert, eye know at the time eye joined a world tour was not promised or advertised but it eventually did happen but he didnt tour here so 4 that reason eye didnt get my moneys worth cause 4 cds aint worth $200 Australian dollars, no way.

Peace.

Thanks for the forgiveness!

I do admit one thing: the 4 titles that are detailed in the tourbook do not constitute a contract. We clubmembers did not sign anything after reading the tourbook. It was simply false advertising (having nothing to do with the truth). People do it all the time. And obviously, Prince does as well.

f2002, u know i agree with the aussie fans it is a shame prince didnt have time to tour there but im sure he will in the near future, he cant plz everyone on the planet all the time! the australian thing could happen soon keep ur fingers crossed!

Well Nate, very well said indeed. Maybe you may consider sending a similar letter to the NPGMC. I admire the approach you're taking, other than cursing, flaming, whining and complaining...you're prsenting a solution to the problem. If enough of us backed you, I'm sure we'd see some 'attempts' at change. If a healthy portion of his fan base is unsatisfied, it would be in his best interest to do something.

FunkyBrotha:

While you make some valid legal points as well...simply attacking Nate, isn't going to solve anything. Why not try and search for a solution to the problem, that a great majority of Prince's fan base has experienced.

Blue
Times...times

FunkyBrotha said:

I am a licensed attorney in the U.S., and I can pretty much guaranty you that I could force Prince to give me a refund for Year 2 if I desired.

At this point, I'm not discontent enough to do so, but you're posts claiming that he fulfilled his "contractual obligations" and that NPGMC customers have no recourse are simply wrong. If I had the will and the time, I could draft a pretty good class action complaint that would at least get a settlement out of NPGMC.

Please also stop writing in "Princebonics." I hope your law school professors demand that you actually write in proper English... we don't need any more Londell McMillan wannabees.

IamTheDJ said:

Are you saying Prince isn't going to come to my wedding!??!!?!

of course u could get a refund, im not sayin that! im sayin u couldnt sue prince for breach of contract because he hasnt! u can also cancel ur membership and get a percentage of the money back! sorry bout the princebonics, but it aint an AOP here!

FunkyBrotha said:

Funky, I hear what you are saying, but you are getting too caught up in the legal aspects.

I have won a hundred cases less clear cut that the NPGMC contract, but one important fact...

I'm not talking about any of us taking legal action.

Forget the legal right or wrong, I'm talking about people being mislead, and what we can do about (i.e. out of court).

Voting with out feet.

Not voting with our feet to demand more in year 2, or trying to shut the club down.

I mean voting with our feet to clarify the year 3 position far more clearly so we are not having this conversation this time next year.

I want an argument with you next year, revolving around which album was best, Madrid 2 Chicago or Xenophobia.

Not whether NPGMC broke the Consumer Protection laws!

Wow i agree for the first time, yes, we need more clarification but not so much as to destroy the hype and excitement over the releases!

they mentioned dvd next year, i look 4ward 2 that if it happens!

FunkyBrotha said:

I would not choose breach of contract as the action... I would probably sue under a fraud theory.

There also might be a valid claim under some Federal consumer protection laws as well. (Because they use the mail to send their product, they are covered by such laws.)
[This message was edited Mon Dec 9 18:38:20 PST 2002 by BanishedBrian]

u would need some fantastic shit 2 pull it off my friend! i think npgmc r totally covered with all legal aspects i cant c u winning anything from a fraud action!

FunkyBrotha said:

My god, we are agreeing!

The hype is great, but it only works when the product is finally delivered.

I was excited about the best of O+>, if only to hear certain songs updated, but when it fails to appear, its worse than never offering the CD in the first place.

I want the hype...and the product. If he can't do both, I want him to keep his mouth shut!

FunkyBrotha said:

I wouldn't need to win to settle. In any event, the last thing NPGMC wants (or needs from a PR standpoint) is BanishedBrian dragging them into Federal court. Trust me, I could get past summary judgment easy on this one.

I should reiterate that I have no interest in suing NPGMC. In fact, I'll probably join for Year 3 depending on what they offer.

However, I think any consumer that desires a refund for Year 2 (which many may) would have a valid complaint that would stand a reasonable chance of winning if litigated. Personally, I'm not sufficiently dissatisfied.

The most crucial fact is that some members have only received four CDs for $100 while these same 4CDs are apparently now going to be available at retail outlets for $50 or less. If that fact is indeed true (i.e., that ONA studio will be included in the retail box set), then many members have been charged $100 for something they could have purchased for $50. A good litigator could do a lot with that fact.

Once again though, for me personally, the $100 I spent is not worth missing out on the chance that the club will improve in the future. There are instances everyday where we see things around us that could be the basis for legal action... it doesn't mean we turn around and sue (at least, not most of us:)).

Like Nate, I am more interested in using the leverage that NPGMC customers currently have to demand better service and less ambiguity from the outset in Year 3.
[This message was edited Mon Dec 9 19:00:07 PST 2002 by BanishedBrian]

XxAxX said:

BanishedBrian said:

I think its our only chance to save our sanity.

Take a stand, radical man!