OK, this follows on from a one of my responses to another thread that I then thought would make an interesting thread.

If it has been discussed before then I missed it would like to know if anyone else thinks the same as me? I said.....

"Lets not be too naive to think that Prince has no control over bootlegs getting 'out' of his vaults.

That man has been making money on the sly since the beginning of his carreer by selling his music on the black market as to sideline his recording contracts.

I wouldn't be surprised that it was the high demand for his bootlegs and the craziness of the black album that gave him the confidence to walk away from his contracts - because he knew that we were already buying as much of his shit that we could hold of any way!!!!"

I don't know if he's behind their distribution, but I'm surprised that someone who has such an iron grip on other aspects of his career and music can't find a way to lock down the source. I know that in this day and age it's nigh impossible to prevent audience recordings, but I don't get how the soundboard recordings and unreleased studio tracks get out.

mentalist said:

I don't believe he's in on it. I think tracks got out largely due to people around him leaking stuff for cash. Plain and simple.

poss but I can imagine some sound engineers just pulled a crafty one and made copies without him knowing and took them home.

I'm not sure he's directly responsible...but I think that, at various times in his career, he's been - if not complicit in the releases - at least "in the know" about them.

There are plenty of stories from back in the day about him tossing cassettes to friends and saying, "Hey, listen to this." Sure, some stuff probably was stolen. But I doubt all of it was.

I used to shop in a 2cd hand music store...And the variety was changing regularly. I used to live in a community with a high population for the area. A local nightclub would often have bands that toured...many of them popular punk bands...not so much Headlining rockers, but occasionally. Anyway, tour buses were seen monthly no more than two miles from this record store.

It was my assumption when I purchased a Prince bootleg from the record store, that an out of towner brought it in. Also mentioning, that, I believe it's origin to be from England. I could be wrong....but the other bootleg I own is the recorded interview of Prince at an English sidewalk cafe. Thanks mate.

It wouldn't surprise me if he had a hand in some.

It goes back to him being a legendary aftershow performer, and prolific song writer, which is a tag I'm sure he's comfortable with and one he has created himself.

The joy that he can give the fans closest to him would have been to much to resist, imo!

mentalist said:

sigh... Sheesh, just THINK, will ya? For plenty of Prince boots, the sources are well-known. And they NEVER are Prince.

Live shows and aftershows etc. yeah easy to leak or get out with Prince not having control as alot of external companies handle the equipment and soundboards for the live shows/aftershows,

But I'm talking about all his studio tracks that he decides not to release or become out-takes to albums - they all seem to make it out!!!

Hundreds and hundreds of them!!!!

BartVanHemelen said:

Well not Prince directly (obviously) but is he the source of the leaked material?

What sources am I NOT THINKING about exactly?

And what about the video footage? I've seen...uh...heard about concert footage that's been out and about, with different camera angles, Prince mugging for the cameras, etc.

With Prince's iron glove approach to things, there's no way that footage made it out to circulation, without his prior knowledge!

I used to work security for prince. He liked to hit the record stores and sift thru his section and pull all the bootlegs, walk up to the counter and say "you cant sell these!!!"
After studio sessions he would make sure everyone in the band had a copy to listen and practice, i believe thats where alot of the bootlegs came from. The vids are the same way, he'd record everything to study and expand on solos changes and dance moves.
being the perfectionist that he is, i find it hard to beleive he would release something of poor quality or unfinished.
when we would go to a club, sometimes he would bring new cuts to have the dj play, then hide behind the dj booth to watch the croud response, but before we would go he would always make sure the new cuts went with him.

The answer is "No"
Prince doesn't have anything to do with any bootlegs.

southmpls said:

As you can see by this informed post, Prince does not let the bootlegs out.

Guess that answers the question.

mentalist said:

I dunno.
I'm not a mentalist.

I commented on this, previously. I'm pretty sure that Prince has given out his unreleased material, when he felt like doing so. As someone else said, Prince is always about being in control of his music and destiny. I can't imagine him going to a studio and being lax about whatever he's recording. I'm sure that when he completes a song he watches over the actual recorded tracks and they go into his vault.

In terms of the sheer number of bootlegs that are available, I don't think that they made it into fans' hands, as an oversight. Crystal Ball was a compilation of previously bootlegged songs. So, it's not as if he has no knowledge of the bootleg world, as it applies to his music.

Prince is well aware of the existence of bootlegs of his material. He's also well
aware of how these things come to be in existence. However, the question
was whether Prince has a direct hand in making bootlegs (i.e. deliberately
supplying bootleggers with material or making them himself) and the answer
to that is definitely "No". The sources where bootlegs originate are well
known (which is why I can be so definite in my answer, and not qualify it
with an "I think.." or "IMO..."). You will also notice that since Prince got
complete control in the latter 90's, the appearance on bootlegged new
material as pretty much dried up completely.

williamb610 said:

No, you're not "pretty sure". You made up some dumb shit without thinking and now you try to pass that on as truth.

LISTEN and PAY ATTENTION to what is said by people who KNOW what they're talking about. Read BorisFishpaw's post, read my post: no "I think that" or "my guess is" BS, but plain facts: Prince has got NOTHING to do with the boots.

mentalist said:

So what you're saying is that he is but he isn't? It's very simple: all boots of studio material come from numerous sources, NONE of them however gave this out because Prince told them too. Bandmembers leave tapes in cars they bring to the garage, tapes get handed out to Prince's girlfriends, engineers make a tape copy of a recording session, etcetera. Former bandmembers sell tapes to make some extra money because Prince once again "forgets" to pay them money owed (or to finance a drug habit), employees (which even include family members of Prince) give tapes to fans in exchange for favors,... There are insiders who can tell you plenty of tales about where and how stuff originated, but they keep it to themselves in order to keep the source alive.

mentalist said:

No, you're not thinking at all. It is a well-known fact Prince HATES boots. Part of the Uptown settlement was that they had to stop discussing boots, for instance.

darrenj said:

Joy? Joy? If anything, it was a way for him to make money off his music that WB wouldn't allow him to release. Notice how there have been far fewer bootlegs available since he became "free?" He clearly doesn't seem to like them, though...it's more likely they came from sources close to him who were either careless or felt otherwise undercompensated.
[Edited 1/22/08 1:30am]

southmpls said:

Prince isn't a perfectionist. You just need to listen to the horrible sound quality of his last couple of albums to figure that out.

viewaskew said:

Oh for crying out loud. People and their stupid imaginations.

The topic of this thread makes it VERY tough to decide either way

There's little point in arguing the point any further - as you can see, there are people who just *want* to believe Prince put this stuff out there on purpose, especially during the 93-95 period and nothing will change their minds.

I don't know who's responsible,but I'm just glad that it got out

SoulAlive said:

I agree with that part definitely.

Thanks for your responses. I'm alot more convinced that maybe he isn't, but as with anything I'm still not 100% free of doubt.

It's not that I 'want' to believe, it was more to the fact that as was mentioned before, that how does so much material get out from an artist that dictates such tight control.

However, it know seems that it is purely the record companies and not Prince at all.

Maybe they're all making the money by pimping Prince's music on the side!!!

No offence intended with my original accusation. Honest.

My guess would be:

1. His engineers.
2. People in the studio.
3. Various employees of Paisley Park.
4. Friends/Family Members/Girlfriends he gives tapes to.

And I thank them for that! It might be horrible for Prince but it's great for fans, therefore that makes it "A-okay." I say "more bootlegs!"

I doubt it.

mentalist said:

For the they *want* to believe it's true statement, it sounds more to me like they just *DON'T want* to believe it's true!

The only person(s) that could possibly KNOW with 100% certainty is Prince and bootleggers themselves! Everyone else comments and their so called facts are still based on second hand knowledge and everyone should know by now that in Prince world, that second hand knowledge really doesn't mean a thing!

Prince is a master at feigning contempt for something one minute then doing a 180 on the matter the next!

I really don't care one way or the other but to completely dismiss the notion that it is possible is absurd!