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PrintableBartVanHemelen said: southmpls said: being the perfectionist that he is
Prince isn't a perfectionist. You just need to listen to the horrible sound quality of his last couple of albums to figure that out. OUCH!  | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: mentalist said: I agree with that part definitely. Thanks for your responses. I'm alot more convinced that maybe he isn't, but as with anything I'm still not 100% free of doubt. It's not that I 'want' to believe, it was more to the fact that as was mentioned before, that how does so much material get out from an artist that dictates such tight control. However, it know seems that it is purely the record companies and not Prince at all. Maybe they're all making the money by pimping Prince's music on the side!!! No offence intended with my original accusation. Honest.  For the they *want* to believe it's true statement, it sounds more to me like they just *DON'T want* to believe it's true! The only person(s) that could possibly KNOW with 100% certainty is Prince and bootleggers themselves! Everyone else comments and their so called facts are still based on second hand knowledge and everyone should know by now that in Prince world, that second hand knowledge really doesn't mean a thing! Prince is a master at feigning contempt for something one minute then doing a 180 on the matter the next! I really don't care one way or the other but to completely dismiss the notion that it is possible is absurd! Yeah, I got the same feeling. Just because they use factual statements without any justification, it dosn't make it any more valid or convincing then someone saying IMO!!!! Also, of course Prince is gonna portray he HATES bootlegs if he is behind anything so if it blows up he has the perfect alibi!!! This really was only supposed to be a discussion of opinions, but unfortunately as with most threads it has encouraged the self righteous "we know everything, you know nothing" people, and spoilt it a bit!!! I am grateful to those that made an objective contribution, especially Viewaskew who really got me thinking with... "Notice how there have been far fewer bootlegs available since he became "free?" Really good point and the most convincing point of view. Lets just leave it at that!  Life's a Parade! LoveLife, LoveSexy! | |
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mentalist said: SexyBeautifulOne said: For the they *want* to believe it's true statement, it sounds more to me like they just *DON'T want* to believe it's true! The only person(s) that could possibly KNOW with 100% certainty is Prince and bootleggers themselves! Everyone else comments and their so called facts are still based on second hand knowledge and everyone should know by now that in Prince world, that second hand knowledge really doesn't mean a thing! Prince is a master at feigning contempt for something one minute then doing a 180 on the matter the next! I really don't care one way or the other but to completely dismiss the notion that it is possible is absurd! Yeah, I got the same feeling. Just because they use factual statements without any justification, it dosn't make it any more valid or convincing then someone saying IMO!!!! Also, of course Prince is gonna portray he HATES bootlegs if he is behind anything so if it blows up he has the perfect alibi!!! This really was only supposed to be a discussion of opinions, but unfortunately as with most threads it has encouraged the self righteous "we know everything, you know nothing" people, and spoilt it a bit!!! I am grateful to those that made an objective contribution, especially Viewaskew who really got me thinking with... "Notice how there have been far fewer bootlegs available since he became "free?" Really good point and the most convincing point of view. Lets just leave it at that!  | |
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mentalist said: how does so much material get out from an artist that dictates such tight control.
he dictates a tight control now, but he hasn't always. mentalist said: However, it know seems that it is purely the record companies and not Prince at all.
I don't know how you would infer that from the replies to this thread. Band members, employees and associates were the sources put forth, and there are several well-known cases or times where this was the case. Like I said before, I think some people are getting things a little tangled in their head, specifically with reference to the 93-95 period, where Prince was spouting his 'free the music' stuff, and coupled with his vocal stance towards Warners, it may have, at that time, made some sort of sense to think Prince was a little more lax and free with his mixtapes and such. But to take that idea and apply it to his entire career is completely unjustified. | |
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williamb610 said: I commented on this, previously. I'm pretty sure that Prince has given out his unreleased material, when he felt like doing so. As someone else said, Prince is always about being in control of his music and destiny. I can't imagine him going to a studio and being lax about whatever he's recording. I'm sure that when he completes a song he watches over the actual recorded tracks and they go into his vault.
In terms of the sheer number of bootlegs that are available, I don't think that they made it into fans' hands, as an oversight. Crystal Ball was a compilation of previously bootlegged songs. So, it's not as if he has no knowledge of the bootleg world, as it applies to his music. Wrong. He used to be very lax with his recordings. When Prince records a song, he makes copies and gives them out for people to check out. He leaves the tracks in the studio for others to add their parts tro, he sends the tracks and delivers them to guest musicians, he sometimes tells the enginneer to make a rough mix for him to come find the next day...and he is not so lax anymore. Almost all the previous bootlegs tracks can be traced back to how they got out (through girlfriends, dj's, studio engineers, band members, forgetting them in rented cars, at the mechanic's shop, given to family, etc). And people posting on here do know the bootlegers, and some do know Prince. also the bootlegs make only a small tiny fraction of the money Prince would make through releasing stuff through proper channels, and... many bootleg companies/individuals came against legal persecution from Prince. He is not connected financially to any of the bootleggers. I hear the Japanese leg of the Lovesexy tour soundboard boots got out when the Japanese soundboard guy was contacted years later and paid off by bootleggers.... not Prince. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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Marc Bradley of Mn , does that name sound familiar to anyone ? Was responsible for a lot of bootlegging in the later 80's early 90's ..... | |
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prince ain't daft. maybe he was checking out certain people by giving them access 2 stuff, u know 2 c who he could trust..he would have known tht dishing out demos etc would b like handing out readies... | |
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lottielooloo1968 said: prince ain't daft. maybe he was checking out certain people by giving them access 2 stuff, u know 2 c who he could trust..he would have known tht dishing out demos etc would b like handing out readies...
Bootlegs don't really hurt him too bad financially (although they do ruin the surprise and magic from his viewpoint by letting people in on his creative process or leaking a halfbaked crazy new song that was intended to surprise and entertain on an album),so I don't think it was a top concern for him. and he has become a lot smarter about securing his demos and albums. Tamar's entire album only leaked recently! My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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ufoclub said: lottielooloo1968 said: prince ain't daft. maybe he was checking out certain people by giving them access 2 stuff, u know 2 c who he could trust..he would have known tht dishing out demos etc would b like handing out readies...
Bootlegs don't really hurt him too bad financially (although they do ruin the surprise and magic from his viewpoint by letting people in on his creative process or leaking a halfbaked crazy new song that was intended to surprise and entertain on an album),so I don't think it was a top concern for him. and he has become a lot smarter about securing his demos and albums. Tamar's entire album only leaked recently! ?maybe advancements in technology have made him more security consious, u know what with the digital age etc. years ago he wouldn't have envisaged prolific file sharing etc. sharing bootlegs would have been more limited. | |
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ufoclub said: Bootlegs don't really hurt him too bad financially
Agreed. Only hardcore collectors buy bootlegs. And hardcore collectors would buy anything he puts out (NEWS, for example). | |
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BartVanHemelen said: viewaskew said: it was a way for him to make money off his music that WB wouldn't allow him to release.
Oh for crying out loud. People and their stupid imaginations. You're a dick. Leave that line in context & it's there as only a possiblity, which is precisely what it is. No matter how long you've been coming here, no matter how many issues of Uptown you have under your bed where porn should be, no matter how much you love Prince but claim to hate him, you don't know exactly what's going on here, do you? No. You don't. As someone who has been escorted out of a venue for the simple act of taking pictures at a Prince show (ONA at Avery Fisher Hall), I know Prince is not fond of the lack of control over his work or his image that bootlegs carry with them. Still, he could have had much tighter control than he did through recent years with stuff that escaped his studios. | |
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Well, Prince writes, produces and performs most of the tracks we're talking about. So yes, he's responsible for them.
Let's face it, without Prince there wouldn't be any Prince bootlegs  | |
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i'll post a better repsonse later after reading others thoughts ..this topic should b a good read through man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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Wow. such passion.
I remember someone telling me about a 12inch Gett Off single with diff mixes he released behind WB back for his bday. There is no doubt he has bootlegged himself(black album. c'mon, i've never seen such guerilla marketing.) There is no doubt he is a master of marketing(hes doing it now). Check these projects - maytes album - mc flash - 1-800-new-funk - tamar - the one time royalty pay box set - tamar? The man never looks back. Ever. that brains always moving forward. I think when the enthusiasm starts waning, so does his desire to protect it. The other In the height of his bootlegs he was surrounded by friends, management, wardrobe, agents, WB reps, yes men, musicians, other projects, engineers, producers and free WB money. The catalyst is gone. Paisley park is a ghost town with a cat. | |
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southmpls said: Wow. such passion.
I remember someone telling me about a 12inch Gett Off single with diff mixes he released behind WB back for his bday. There is no doubt he has bootlegged himself(black album. c'mon, i've never seen such guerilla marketing.) There is no doubt he is a master of marketing(hes doing it now). Check these projects - maytes album - mc flash - 1-800-new-funk - tamar - the one time royalty pay box set - tamar? The man never looks back. Ever. that brains always moving forward. I think when the enthusiasm starts waning, so does his desire to protect it. The other In the height of his bootlegs he was surrounded by friends, management, wardrobe, agents, WB reps, yes men, musicians, other projects, engineers, producers and free WB money. The catalyst is gone. Paisley park is a ghost town with a cat. huh? The Black Album was never marketed by Prince. aside from performing two or three songs as part of the Lovesexy tour. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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By guerilla marketing i mean unmarketing. he made a subliminal comment not to buy the black album on the alphabet street vid as well as performing several songs. the black album had alot of buzz. | |
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People love a good conspiracy theory.
Unfortunately, the truth is rarely as exciting or as interesting as the theories, and so often gets ignored or brushed aside. | |
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BorisFishpaw said: Prince is well aware of the existence of bootlegs of his material. He's also well
aware of how these things come to be in existence. However, the question was whether Prince has a direct hand in making bootlegs (i.e. deliberately supplying bootleggers with material or making them himself) and the answer to that is definitely "No". The sources where bootlegs originate are well known (which is why I can be so definite in my answer, and not qualify it with an "I think.." or "IMO..."). You will also notice that since Prince got complete control in the latter 90's, the appearance on bootlegged new material as pretty much dried up completely. does this mean ppl are gonna start letting those rare bootlegs out? the ones only select few have? | |
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lottielooloo1968 said: maybe he was checking out certain people by giving them access 2 stuff, u know 2 c who he could trust..
Trent Reznor did that with the infamous Nine Inch Nails "Broken" short movie. He gave copies to different buddies in different qualities and with different watermarks to see who would leak it. Apparently it was Gibby Haynes of the Butthole Surfers that did it. southmpls said: when we would go to a club, sometimes he would bring new cuts to have the dj play, then hide behind the dj booth to watch the croud response, but before we would go he would always make sure the new cuts went with him. Yeah, I saw him do that with Rashida at the indigo. [Edited 1/23/08 0:49am] |
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BorisFishpaw said: People love a good conspiracy theory.
Unfortunately, the truth is rarely as exciting or as interesting as the theories, and so often gets ignored or brushed aside. Don't even the visit the "driver shot Kennedy" thread... My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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ufoclub said: BorisFishpaw said: People love a good conspiracy theory.
Unfortunately, the truth is rarely as exciting or as interesting as the theories, and so often gets ignored or brushed aside. Don't even the visit the "driver shot Kennedy" thread... lol, I saw that thread! Unfortunately, people would far rather believe that Prince was masterminding some bizarro self-bootlegging franchise than the more mundane and unglamorous facts of the matter, and no amount of rational explanations or informed / inside information will change that. | |
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Christopher said: BorisFishpaw said: Prince is well aware of the existence of bootlegs of his material. He's also well
aware of how these things come to be in existence. However, the question was whether Prince has a direct hand in making bootlegs (i.e. deliberately supplying bootleggers with material or making them himself) and the answer to that is definitely "No". The sources where bootlegs originate are well known (which is why I can be so definite in my answer, and not qualify it with an "I think.." or "IMO..."). You will also notice that since Prince got complete control in the latter 90's, the appearance on bootlegged new material as pretty much dried up completely. does this mean ppl are gonna start letting those rare bootlegs out? the ones only select few have? I doubt it, nothing's really changed in that respect. | |
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SHADDDDDUUUUUP befoe we lose annuddder wuuuuun!!!!! THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
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BartVanHemelen said: southmpls said: being the perfectionist that he is
Prince isn't a perfectionist. You just need to listen to the horrible sound quality of his last couple of albums to figure that out. Or the film quality of the Aladdin Las Vegas DVD, if I was a perfectionist I wouldn't have released that. I would have watched it back, said 'ooh good gig but dodgy filming' sacked the producer and got another gig filmed. | |
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lspear76 said: My guess would be:
1. His engineers. 2. People in the studio. 3. Various employees of Paisley Park. 4. Friends/Family Members/Girlfriends he gives tapes to. And I thank them for that! It might be horrible for Prince but it's great for fans, therefore that makes it "A-okay." I say "more bootlegs!" I don't even know where to get a bootleg  "C'mon y'all - let me hear you sing, c'mon y'all, shake, c'mon y'all, jump" - Yes Prince -
"London do you feel for me what I feel for you"- yes Prince - "Can I play my guitar now?" - yes please | |
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The uncirculated material that is outside of the vault will find its way to bootlegs. It's all about greed/money. The bootleggaz pay $1000's for one unreleased song! $1000's for uncirculated videos.
It should be about focus with Prince, bootleggers bootleg NPGMC stuff because he made it available for a limited time! His official work is being distributed much like bootlegs, everyone just downloads to the ipod/zune. Bootlegs at one time had meaning, something a little extra for the fan that bought every record, single etc. Now boots are just out in digital space but the official stuff is also!..the official stuff outnumbers the bootleg stuff on torrents/share sites. Worry about bootlegs when released stuff is being stolen? If select people have something..it's worth big time $$$$$. With how the internet works if one doesn't cash in another one will and it will leak and be worthless. | |
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BorisFishpaw said: People love a good conspiracy theory.
Unfortunately, the truth is rarely as exciting or as interesting as the theories, and so often gets ignored or brushed aside. Seriously dude, demolitions brought the twins down it's a world run by madmen...  | |
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southmpls said: I remember someone telling me about a 12inch Gett Off single with diff mixes he released behind WB back for his bday.
sigh... THAT'S NOT A BOOTLEG. That's Prince being an ass. That's Prince recording a new song, deciding it would be ideal for strip clubs, pressing up a bunch of 12 inches and sendign them out. southmpls said: There is no doubt he has bootlegged himself(black album. c'mon, i've never seen such guerilla marketing.)
Do you even know what you're talking about? WTF has the original 1987 release of TBA or the 1994 release of TBA got to do with bootlegging? ZER ZILCH NADA NOTHING. southmpls said: There is no doubt he is a master of marketing(hes doing it now).
Oh pur-lease. he's rubbish at it. He's a master at shooting himself in the foot, yeah. "Let's see: I just signed with Clive Davis so he can help me be a star again, I've recorded a bunch of tunes just like he did on the Santana album, but now I'm gonna bitch about him deciding what would be best for me, I'm gonna behave like a spoilt brat, and I'm gonna announce to my fans that the album I just released and that they paid good money for was a weak version of the real super-duper album I'm gonna sell them in a couple of weeks." southmpls said: Check these projects
- maytes album - mc flash - 1-800-new-funk - tamar - the one time royalty pay box set - tamar? You obviously have no clue. All of these things were HUMONGOUS FAILURES. southmpls said: The man never looks back. Ever.
Yeah, that's why he was showing old live movies at the Celebrations. That's why he was promising Roadhouse Garden. That's why he was asking fans for input on Crystal Ball II. Oh, and that's why he's barely played any music recorded in the past decade on his latest tours. © Bart Van Hemelen
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BorisFishpaw said: Unfortunately, people would far rather believe that Prince was masterminding
some bizarro self-bootlegging franchise than the more mundane and unglamorous facts of the matter, and no amount of rational explanations or informed / inside information will change that. Exactly. Even when confronted with the facts. © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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mentalist said: This really was only supposed to be a discussion of opinions, but unfortunately as with most threads it has encouraged the self righteous "we know everything, you know nothing" people, and spoilt it a bit!!!
Who gives a shit about UNINFORMED OPIINIONS? There are several people on this thread pointing you to the TRUTH. mentalist said: I am grateful to those that made an objective contribution, especially Viewaskew who really got me thinking with...
"Notice how there have been far fewer bootlegs available since he became "free?" Really good point and the most convincing point of view. Which you of course completely misread. Why? Because you'd rather make shit up that look at the facts. Want facts? Look up the truth about the razormaid remix of housequake. The source of the City Lights videos is well-known. Etcetera. People in the know can tell you the story behind just about every leaked studio track or soundboard recording. Look up the truth behind the Jacob Armen record. Prince has got ZERO involvement with bootleggers. ZERO. You might not like to hear that, but it is the truth. © Bart Van Hemelen
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