NightGod said:

Bob George is one of my all time faves - sooo funky and soooo funny! It makes me laugh out loud and I use quotes from it as often as possible - particularly wit my bro Mfcuker who loves it too..."sorry...coz dats the rules!"

Have to honest tho - I thought it was more the nose dust he was experimenting with - particularly in 'Superfunkycalifragicsexy' - maybe Squirrel Meat can shed some light - he's clearly a fan of the black album.

VanessaB8tt said:

I'll be here this time next week, maybe earlier.
But chances are, you guys will be right about it being funny & funky... couldn't be the first time I've been proven wrong ("Come" is a perfect example)

The story as I understand it, is that Prince took ecstasy, had a 'vision' (or whatever you wanna call it), decided that the Black Album was evil and had it pulled. The Lovesexy album was recorded and relesed in it's place.

BUT...

There's one thing about this story that's never made sense to me. How come he played a lot of the Black Album tracks on the Lovesexy tour? Did he change his mind after Lovesexy was released, deciding that those tracks weren't evil after all? Wasn't it just done for publicity?

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

With the greatest of respect, DreamyPopRoyalty, you need to bear in mind that Prince is only a musician and the majority of us are only fans. He creates music, we enjoy his music. End of story.

You make one very valid comment At the same time, a part of me is saying, "he doesn't care about you and what you do. He doesn't have a hand in what happens with you and his music." . Unless you know Prince personally then you are just one of his many fans who funds his lifestyle. If you are not convinced about this then try and write to him at Paisley Park and see what type of reply you get. I can guarantee that your reply will not be from Prince himself and will just be a standard reply, that is assuming you get one.

As to the question of taking drugs, please dear in mind that many pop stars have dabbled with drugs over the years. If Prince was a regular user then perhaps, I could understand some of your comments but he experimented with Ecstasy over 20 years ago! You also need to remember that when Ecstasy first hit the club scene it was considered a safe drug to take and this is what probably led to his interest in trying it.

Enjoy the music, enjoy being a fan.

In the nxt 20 years we'll b witnessing an alzheimers epidemic thnx 2 this evil substance.
Do the research.

NightGod said:

i understand what a sex drug can do to a person, i was slipped a sex drug, unbenost by me, when i was young (early 80's), by a guy i was seeing, and i can tell u it hurts to share huge over the top and the mostandhighest orgasms ever; with someone u know isn't ur TRUE LOVE. That experience hurts me still. So i say it's a Negative Experience!
[Edited 9/28/07 16:48pm]
[Edited 9/28/07 16:50pm]
[Edited 9/28/07 17:18pm]

aliuk1 said:

That's exactly why I find this whole incident so interesting, Prince seems to have conflicting emotions about both the event and the music in question. Look at the "Spooky Electric" passage in the Lovesexy tourbook and references to this character on the Lovesexy album, which I'm sure stems from the Ecstasy night. His performances of various Black Album songs on the Lovesexy tour is very interesting in that he knew these songs were unreleased and performed large productions around them, particularly Bob George and Superfunkicalifragisexi, the two most graphic songs from the album.

I get the whole "sinner / saint" vibe of the concert and I think it works beautifully, in fact I think the entire message behind Lovesexy is beautiful. However, the epiphany that brought Prince to this new spirital awakening was the result of a strange drug trip. I guess you could look at the experience two ways:

1. Prince got so freaked out by his experience on E that he was scared straight, and never wanted to touch the stuff again, and wanted to turn his life around at that moment.

2. Prince had an emotional and spiritual breakthrough that he's carried on to this day due to his experimenting with Ecstasy. In his eyes, this could be a defining moment of his life. Most people mess with drugs and end up in rehab, leave it to Prince to go down that road and end up in church.

Oh God! I CAN'T TAKE THIS SHIT NO MO!

christos7 said:

Christos7 - I'm surprised at such a sensationalist statement from you! I've usually found your posts to be balanced and considered.

If you are keeping up-to-date with MDMA research, you would know that alot of the previous theories about brain and memory damage, seratonin depletion etc are being challenged heavily.

Furthermore, why aren't we seeing this supposed Alzheimer's epidemic now? The drug MDMA has been used by psychiatrists in post traumatic stress disorder cases since the 50s and recreational use of the drug has existed since the 70s. So where are all these problematic people that have been treated with/used Ecstasy? As is usual, once a drug becomes popular for recreational use, it is demonised and mis-information abounds, or information is restricted and new research hard to come by.

Scaremongering, misleading information, propoganda - none of this serves to help any problem, particularly when what you are constantly told by governments and the media flies in the face of personal and social experiences. Likewise with blanket, prejudiced statements such as Nightgods's "Most people mess with drugs and end up in rehab, leave it to Prince to go down that road and end up in church", do more harm than good. It is simply not true that "most" people who use drugs end up with a problem and neither can you say with any certainty what happened to Prince after his experience - for all you know, he still dabbles with the odd bit of MDMA, or other substances (we certainly know that he enjoys the odd bit of alcohol, but of course, that's so socially acceptable and has no dangers at all, eh?!)

KidaDynamite said:

Would that be down to prejudice, sensationalism, ignorance, or the same tired debate about Prince's possible narcotic consumption? Its so hard to tell!

Mindflux said:

All of it! It's driving me

Mindflux said:

Here here mindflux! So much of peoples preconceptions are to do with whats socially acceptable. More likely that 'most' people who have used drugs or still do don't need to go rehab to stop - for a start Ecstacy isn't addictive - unlike something like Heroin. Codine is incredably addictive and you can buy it in the chemist! Alcohol is one of the most proven metabolic poisions and its sold in supermarkets as if it can cause you as much harm as a loaf of bread - i picked up two fine bottles of Cab Sauv is Tesco last night actually and will probably drink my fill of rum and cocktails when I am out with my girlfriends tonight and yes I will be ill tomorrow but sometimes the bad things are worth it. Just like sugar - I am a total sugar addict - I read that sugar is one of the most highly addictive substances that we consume and i love love love it. No doubt after i have a bar of chocolate I come up the best ideas so it more than likely has an effect on the brain but is anyone banning the evils of sugar? Don't think so.

Mindflux said:

I'm curious how my statement is "a blanket, prejudiced statement". Sure, it's hard to convey humor in the written word in times, but that statement is meant to be ironic. I appreciate your pro-drug stance (forgive me, but I'm assuming that's where you're coming from), and I agree that there's a lot of misinformation out there, which is why I'm asking questions about the results of the experience, not saying "Drugs are bad" or "Drugs are good".

I'm pointing out the possibility that Prince's Ecstasy experience was a very positive (although scary) one.

ace1967 said:

It wasn't his height that was an issue, it was his weight. Drug dosages (for any kind of drugs -- prescription or non-prescription) are based on a person's weight. Smaller people need less for the same effect.

Genesia said:

His weight would be an issue because of his height, or lackthereof.

I'm not Saying you're wrong (although that's the first time I've heard that claim for a side-effect on Xtasy) but to what do we then owe the current and past alzheimer epidemics? I remember reading that excessive reliance upon canned food (ie. residual aluminium in food) had been tipped as a factor.

Oh yeah before I forget (no joke intended), did u know that in India Alzheimers is almost unknown as a condition affecting the elderly and this is attributed to their use of what we might consider excessive spicing.

So...put more chilli on that canned hot dog

As for the drug itself, I have some experience (I got scared too) and it's a bit heaven and hell. It boosts serotonin at the beginning and makes for a very happy lovey-dovey experience when you'll likely as not feel incredibly ecstatic about everyone you meet or are with.
If you get to bed while still in that state, you'll wake up feeling great but it's a bit like Cinderella's pumpkin-coach...if you stay out until the effect is wearing off, then you'll suffer an immense serotonin deficit (it doesn't add anything it just releases what u got in one big dose, y'see?) and that's where the scary bit comes in.

MDMA is not a bad thing. I've seen people who had been down and depressed for a long time get free from a dose and it has been used in treatment in this way. However, as ever, the black market leads to corruption of the drug with others at times and that stuff is definitely not to be messed with.

I think I had one good shot and one bad shot and hey..that was enough for me.

While I believe this may have played a role in Prince's cancellation of The Black Album, I'm not sure it was more than just a passing factor. WB didn't favour the album and didn't want to release it especially so soon. Prince then realised he could get himself into the 'Bootleg' charts in a big way and indeed the Black Album remains THE most bootlegged album of all time.

This was an important consolidation of his conquering of 'rock double album' territory with SOTT which got Prince comparison with The Beatles' 'White' album and sealed his place in rock history. The Black Album took him into legend territory in the company of Dylan and The Beatles and the whole bootleg industry around Prince sprang into major action.

I think there's a lot of what Prince does in business that has an emotional, inspirational beginning but a calculated developement and The Black Album is another example of a stroke of genius that few have ever really uncovered fully.
Prince is a mster of the use of the QUESTION MARK.

christos7 said:

[Edited 9/29/07 10:39am]
[Edited 9/29/07 11:17am]

Wall said:

That's just stupid. People of the same height can have vastly different weights while people of differing heights can weigh the same.

Any doctor who doses a patient based on height wouldn't keep his license very long.

Genesia said:

Right. Gothca. Prince being the size of a lawn ornament has nothing to do with his weight. Thanks, Doc.

Thanks Vanessa

Hi Nightgod - its cool and I wasn't calling you out and I did understand your point, both originally and now. Its just an easy trap to fall in to and I take in to account the point you were trying to make - but the trap is to use language that sets up a generalism. Its very casual to say "most drug users end up in rehab", its not true, is being very general and subconsciously provides the reader with an image that "most" drug users have a problem. Its like saying "most people from (insert city) are car thieves" - you can't generalise like that.

You may feel it was pedantic to pick up on that comment, given the context, but I was just usiung it as an example of how easy it is to set up prejudice in a reader's views. Some have been far more balatant than you were.

My stance is not necessarily pro-drug - I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't do drugs, it is a personal choice. But it is a stance of tolerance and understanding, something I find our society (and this microcosm on the org) is increasingly bereft of.

excessex - great post and some interesting, HONEST points in there

Wall - are you really saying there are no short, fat people and that onlky tall people can be heavy? I don't think I have ever heard of height being the determining factor in someone's weight - I thought it largely (no pun intended!) depended on body mass? But then, I'm not a doctor

Mindflux said:

Of course not. I was simply agreeing with whoever noted that even in drug usage, Prince's height is an issue. To think there's no correlation between his extreme lack of height and his lack of weight is foolish.

Back onto the topic: Does anyone know, and forgive me if I've missed this information, when did he trip the purple light fantastic? Was it a week before the Black Album was due? A month? Four days?

Wall said:

But, Prince could weigh 200 pounds and still be the same height! He doesn't, but that's not the point here - the point is that drug doses are not measured on how tall you are, but your Body Mass Index. You would not go to a hospital and have a doctor say, "He's short, reduce his dose"!

The correlation between height and weight is moreso that there are healthy and unhealthy weights for a particular height. Prince's weight, for his height, "looks" fine (it is of course, difficult to tell someone's actual weight just by looking). He is shorter and, possibly, lighter than your average man, but he is not necessarily lighter because he is short.

So, you need to ensure your weight is correct for your height - hence height is not the determining factor for weight.

Mindflux said:

Obviously there are body sizes of all sorts, but if Prince was the height of an average male, or even a teen, and his body mass was at the same proportion that it is now/then, he probably could have handled the full dose.

Wall said:


December 1st. 7 days before the planned December 8th release of the album.

Virgo said:

interesting...

man, I gotta get to that album soon. Then I can really say my piece about it with knowledge of all the tracks and such.

NightGod said


Totally agree. In fact the lyrics are quite superficial if you consider what he was going through at the time.
Prince has talked alot about how angry and negative the album is. But the anger and negativity that he was supposedly feeling while recording the songs, doesn't really show in the songs.
1/3 of the album was recorded in december 1986. Actually the first songs he wrote after his painful breakup with Susannah. But there's no painfully "negative" songs about that on the album. (Those songs remain unreleased or was given to other artist).
He was also in the middle of a giant ugly fight with W.B over Crystal Ball/Sign O' The Times. And there was his declining status in the U.S market.
So it was definitely not happy times for him. And I think that's what the album came to represent for him. The state of mind he was in during that period when it was recorded and assembled and planned for release (Oct/Dec'86 - Dec'87) and not so much the actual songs and their message (or lack of it)
But for the listener it's a funky, funny and not terribly deep album.

On a side note. I find it quite interesting that it was around "the 1 year annivesary of his breakup" with Susannah that this "experience" took place.

Virgo said:

very interesting... I'll keep that in mind.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Hi Orgers,

Just put up a post which has some interviews with band members going over some of this stuff, worth a look

I just heard Susan Roger's account of the incident in a radio interview... that's scary...

but some of the songs were playing in the background.
Can't help but be curious about it.
I've gotta play it soon... but should I do alongside Parade or just do one at a time?

Now I'm like all excited about it.

The Black Album is far less moody and depressing than Lovesexy.

Ok, try this interpretation:

Prince had this weird experience with ecstasy. He rarely takes drugs (the MJ, JB vid would seem to indicate that it's not "never"). This happening at the whole Black/Lovesexy juncture, provided a great METAPHOR for him which he executed in pulling the Black album and dramatized in the concert.

In other words, he had a kind of inspiration on that night for this whole idea of a battle between Spooky Electric, Camille etc. It may be that the Black album "scared" him while under the influence. But my guess is that afterwards he looked at the experience more objectively and drew on it as material for his creativity, as artists do.