androgony is the mixing of both male and female genders or having a lack of
gender identification.

I believe that this has hurt prince in the grand scheme of things because some won't give him a chance because of the make up and heels!

I beleve in a strange way it has helped him with the ladies.

Do u think it has helped or hurt his career?

In my opinion I think Prince continued the fashion sense of the glam movement in extremis. Prince always had gender identification. He has always seen himself as heterosexual male.

It helped him gain a small, but loyal fan-base of people who feel attracted to it, i guess.

But it didnt help him to maintain a big mainstream audience. I think his weirdness / androgynos around Purple Rain was accepted because that was a part of the pop-culture in the early and mid-eighties, and he balanced it off with 'rockguitar' and some 'masculine' behaviour in Purple Rain.

But after that period i think it hurted his career, the general opinion among people who just now a few Prince songs and who dont like him seems to be, he is that 'gay guy / that weird guy in silly clothes that always sings in a irritating high voice'.
I think those people have the image of Prince during 'Kiss' in their mind, and they just dont know he also sings a lot of his material in his normal register, and that he is a very gifted composer, musician and guitarist.

Riverpoet31 said:

I see thing in a diferent view. I think Prince suffered from overexposure.

Also if prince's androginy was so important, why isn't he considered a gay icon?
Most gay people I know don't stand him...some even hate him.

But Mike,

You cant deny he has used that androgenous aspect of his persona, to create interest, to provoke. I mean, you see the same kind of provocation with Prince when it comes to the use 'God' and 'Sex' in his lyrics, use of cryptical theological and religious idea's (on the Symbol album, The Rainbow Children).

With Prince i always have the idea he takes elements of his own 'psyche' for his music and image and magnifies them a lot, sometimes in an absurd, over-the-top kind of way.

When i see the picture of him from the Lovesexy-era with all the make up on, almost like a drag queen, it gives me the idea that he is, on the one hand, using that image to provoke, to make people think for themselves about their 'feminine sides'.
But at the same time i also think its something he really feels. Like he is trying to express: I feel more at ease with my feminine sides, and with women at this period in my life.

It's mostly hurt his career as far as record sales go.



But overall, once all is said and done, and he's long since pushed up daiseys, it wont' matter at all. The vast collection of his material will be everywhere.

of course it helped, rockstars are androgynous historically. elvis, mick, bowie paul being the pretty beattle. gender and sexual preference are seperate which is why little richard's flaming act and princes "look" are seperate issues. princes androgny allowed him to cultivate a fan base of free spirits that wont abandon him like a traditional R&B fanbase would. as a black kid growing up in the 80's i loved that shit and did it myself and got mad play. i love how prince still makes black folks uncomfortable, sometimes we can be homophobic about stupid shit. if prince were an r kelly run of the mill lookin brotha he would not have been able to explore some of the subject matter and alternative sounds he did without serious backlash. prince got away with a lot of shit because most people would end up saying, yeah, what do you expect look at him.

Riverpoet31 said:

That's a very interesting view, Riverpoet.

It's true that Prince used elements of female fashion over the year, but he has always maintened his love for women. When people that about P's supposed homosexuality, I usually say that he is the artist that most song wrote about having intercourse with women.

I have a bit of imparment in having elaborate discussions in english because it's not my mother language (I live in Portugal), but I would like to had this bit I found on the wikipedia:

Glam fans (usually referred to as "glitter kids") and performers distinguished themselves from the denim-clad hippie-hordes with sci-fi/Hollywood glamour/ambisexual-inspired costumes, which were perceived as glamorous by the press. The music was characterised by languid, narcotic ballads and raunchy, high-energy Rolling Stones–influenced rock n‘ roll stylings. Lyrically, the genre's emphasis was most often centred on sexual matters, but drugs, science fiction and "teenage revolution" (such as in T. Rex's "Children of the Revolution" and Sweet’s "Teenage Rampage") were also key subjects.

With then-recent homosexual reforms in the United Kingdom and the militant Stonewall Riots in the U.S., sexual ambiguity was briefly in vogue as an effective "shock tactic". Some bands took to playing in drag. However, glam performers and fans most often dressed in make up and glittering "space age" costumes to portray an "alien" persona. The best-known example of the "glam spaceman" was David Bowie, during his Ziggy Stardust and Aladdin Sane phases, 1972–73. In early 1972, former singer-songwriter Bowie radically changed his image and sound, telling the press he was "gay" (although he actually meant "bisexual"). Genuinely gay glam musicians were actually quite rare. The late Jobriath was among rock's first openly gay stars, while Queen's Freddie Mercury stayed mostly "in the closet" until he, too, died of AIDS.

I think it helped him.It's what makes him stand out.

Of course it's helped his career, look where he is today and he hasn't dressed androgynously for a long time- Duh!
[Edited 7/4/07 18:25pm]

mirrorbestfriend said:

It's helped. Alot!!!
[Edited 7/3/07 20:48pm]

um, isn't androgony partly genetic (too much estrogen/testosterone)? And I think he wears it well, it's super attractive

it helped early on in his career, as it was this quality that attracted and fascinated many people - gave hime the mystique/the enigmatic status

But today, he has moved away from this. i think many people perceive this as the crucial Prince identifier and now its not there so much (understanably - as many will argue his age cant sustain that level of sexual promiscuity, etc...to be honest i tend disagree - sexuality is something that all ages experience)...so i guess yes it has had a detrimental impact on his career - but hey I think that had already been pre-determined, and was always gonna leave question marks over time

I think it's both helped and hurt, in different ways.

It's hurt in that the androgynous image has prevented a lot of people -and I don't just mean your average schlub who can't tell their Stevie Wonder from their 50 cent, but even serious music fans -from picking up Prince's music. Prince may not be gay, but homophobia has hurt him, in terms of ease in creating and keeping a fanbase.

On the other hand, it's helped him tremendously. Visually, the man stands out from a crowd. Even back in the early 80's when androgyny was in vogue in certain circles, Prince stood out because his gender-bending seemed genuine and not just pasted on for fashion. Indeed, years after it stopped being cool for women to wear padded shoulders and men to don eyeliner, Prince kept on with it. A few years ago when he tried to butch it up (for religious or whichever other reason) by wearing man-tailored suits and low heels and minimal makeup, it didn't look natural. It's nice to see him going a bit back to the pretty.
Prince spoke, with his music and his look, to sexual and social outcasts. Whether you didn't or couldn't fit your gender role, or you were a sexual minority, you knew there was somebody out there flaunting what you were supposed to hide. Because of this, Prince has built up for himself an incredibly diverse fanbase, unparalleled by most other artists. What other artist can you go to their gigs and see a white drag queen jamming away next to a big black football player?


I don't claim to know what Prince feels in his heart. That's for him to know. But I think it's quite clear the man either gets a kick out of sending mixed messages about his gender and sexuality, or he's simply more comfortable in a loosely defined role.

Why Prince isn't considered a gay icon, or at least more readily accepted by the gay community is just fucking beyond me, btw. Then again, many in the mainstream LBGT community aren't comfortable with or just plain don't want to be associated with the "T" (that's trans folk to you!) then it's not the hugest surprise that GenderFuckers like Prince aren't welcomed with open arms either.

Yes, I have heard the comments he alledgedly made about Wendy and Lisa a few years back, but seeing as those were second -and -third hand reports, and I've never seen any reason to believe Prince to truly be homophobic, I'm choosing to take that with a hefty grain of salt, thanks.

meow85 said:

You've answered you're own question. On both sides alot of double entendre going on.

I always thought his high pitch voice and feminime qualities where about the music. He may have thought that a female voice would be suited to a song rather than his own. I dont know, but many think its about image, I think its about the music. He wears, does and sings what is appropriate to his creation. He is totally involved in the music from the creation, production to the image and sound. His music may be feminine, so he displays feminine qualities.

MsLegs said:

I am confused, myself here, "MsLegs"! What might you be going on about?

FarrahMoan said:

it's French for "Doubledecker bus"

Riverpoet31 said:

I agree with u

MsLegs said:

I asked a question?

What are you talking about?

Prince has and will always show sides of himself to the public to decipher his real loyal supporters vs the here today gone tomorrow bandwagon people. I feel his image plays to that. He shows parts of who he really is, and sees who accepts it and who admonishes him and moves on. Its the same with his music. His androgynous look is just an extension of how he really feels inside. He embraces his femininity and he doesn't hide it. Also this has also been a very puzzling aspect of his life for many onlookers. He comes off feminine, but keeps his image as a ladies man in tact at the same time. Whenever Prince's career has been helped or hurt it has been because of Prince himself never because of one thing or another. For instance many will point to his decision to realease Lovesexy instead of The Black Album as some sort of mishap but it was still HIS decision that was made from what he felt was right. His androgynous image is a part of Prince so it does of course play its part but its not a choice for Prince. Since day one he has expressed himself this way and I don't think he can help it. Yes it became a "fad" in the 80s but still P couldn't abandon it because its really who he is. So has it hurt his career? No he is still Prince and has accomplished what many can't even sit and imagine. Has it helped? Maybe at one point it did but if he has never abandoned it is because its not a career move its just who and how he really is. Prince wants to a career on his OWN terms makeup, high heels and all.

MikeMatronik said:

I have found this to be the case also. Prince certainly is not adored by that community.

meow85 said:

I think I know why they don't "love" him so to speak...but I think it has to do with Prince not actually being gay. The dude is one weird fucker. Eye liner & shadow, high heels, tight pants and all. Dude likes women so in that regard they too find him odd
[Edited 7/5/07 9:09am]

also to the original point/question

it has never helped him...never. Do you know how hard it was for WB to get radio stations to play the awesome 1999 record until finally they couldn't ignore it. The song 1999 itself was realesed on two different occasions because as the lead off single it never charted. Little Red Corvetter (there has never been a better POp song written) finally charted but peaked at #10) Purple Rain kicked the door open but as Price began to experiment he lost the footing again and the angrodgy did nothing to help him

the adrodgony has never helped him appeal to a mass audience. In fact if he lost that he would clearly be the biggest musical star in the world IMO. Thats how much I think it has effected his career

In Brasil, it hurts

Many people hate Prince BEFORE listening to his music, which is a shame, IMO.

If I put the Lovesexy or Dirty Mind CDs over my desk, the co workers sure make fun of him.

As i said, it might helped him in the first halve of the eighties, because coming over androgenous was 'fashion' then.

But in a later stadium of his career, it didnt help him at all. I mean, the guy was wearing a 'typhoon' and yellow suits when the people were focussed on guys next door, with woodcutter-shirts, playing grunge.
And he wore a blue latex suit and his hair in tiny pigtails, at a moment when the experimentation was mostly to be find 'inside' the music of that era (Radiohead...)

Personally i admire him for staying himselve in that way, but on the other hand i also have the feeling that his style of clothes and his image distract(ed) people too much from his musical qualities.

adorable2 said:

i like that

This guy would say it didn't hurt.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ed&search=

Alexandernvrmind said:

Women like Cher and Madge and Bette and Barbra aren't gay either, and they're embraced, though God only knows why.

Prince isn't gay, yes. But I think he safely fits into the larger queer community. Whatever his reasons for it are, the man sports more makeup and pretty things than your average drag queen, and not just for work, either.