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Thread started 02/25/06 1:50pm

Graycap23

Prince's "do me baby" is NOT original?

I write this in a state of dismay. I NEVER thought that I would be writing a story about Prince possible stealing/borrowing/sampling someone else's work. I was listening to Eddie Hazel's "Frantic Moment" from his 1977 album release of Games, Dames and Guitar Thangs and that track just BLEW me away. Parts of the songs is the music and melody from Prince's "Do me baby" song. It's been 2 days and I still can't believe it. Please find this track and tell me that I'm wrong. Please. -Mg
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Reply #1 posted 02/25/06 1:57pm

WaterUdrink

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I dont know if Prince stole do me baby from Eddie Hazel, but he DEFINATELY stole it from Andre Cymone; it's his song.
"I'll be the first one to admit that I am many things, but one thing I am not is ungrateful...thank you..." - Prince
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Reply #2 posted 02/25/06 2:00pm

Graycap23

WaterUdrink said:

I dont know if Prince stole do me baby from Eddie Hazel, but he DEFINATELY stole it from Andre Cymone; it's his song.



Get Eddie's song and listen to it: it's note for note.
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Reply #3 posted 02/25/06 2:08pm

Graycap23

Graycap23 said:

WaterUdrink said:

I dont know if Prince stole do me baby from Eddie Hazel, but he DEFINATELY stole it from Andre Cymone; it's his song.



Get Eddie's song and listen to it: it's note for note.



If Prince got the track from Cymone then it's Cymone that "borrowed" the music from Eddie Hazel. If that is the case, I feel better already. I just can't believe that Prince would use someone else's work like that. Thanks, I did not know that Prince got the song from Cymone.-Mg
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Reply #4 posted 02/25/06 2:14pm

Graycap23

Graycap23 said:

Graycap23 said:




Get Eddie's song and listen to it: it's note for note.



If Prince got the track from Cymone then it's Cymone that "borrowed" the music from Eddie Hazel. If that is the case, I feel better already. I just can't believe that Prince would use someone else's work like that. Thanks, I did not know that Prince got the song from Cymone.-Mg



For those of you who don't know, Eddie Hazel is the guitar player from P-funk that played the blistering lead guitar on the song "Maggot Brain" Eddie pasted away in 1992. -Mg
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Reply #5 posted 02/25/06 2:23pm

fmarasco

The story is that while jamming Cymone came up with this slow groove and the next day or a few days later prince had fleshed out a song off of said groove. It appears Prince did not ask and later gave him Dance Electric to make up for it. The implication was that Prince used the jam knowingly, although it's been speculated that jamming often leads to ideas getting fleshed out without the right credit as the band is just throwing crap at the wall.
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Reply #6 posted 02/25/06 2:25pm

ifiwereadolphi
n

opleasesomebodyputsomebakongreeseonhisass.
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Reply #7 posted 02/25/06 2:30pm

Graycap23

fmarasco said:

The story is that while jamming Cymone came up with this slow groove and the next day or a few days later prince had fleshed out a song off of said groove. It appears Prince did not ask and later gave him Dance Electric to make up for it. The implication was that Prince used the jam knowingly, although it's been speculated that jamming often leads to ideas getting fleshed out without the right credit as the band is just throwing crap at the wall.

Jamming my ass. Please listen to Frantic Moment and you will see what i'm talking about. How can you be "jamming" and creat a track that is note for note some one else's work?
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Reply #8 posted 02/25/06 3:03pm

laurarichardso
n

Graycap23 said:

fmarasco said:

The story is that while jamming Cymone came up with this slow groove and the next day or a few days later prince had fleshed out a song off of said groove. It appears Prince did not ask and later gave him Dance Electric to make up for it. The implication was that Prince used the jam knowingly, although it's been speculated that jamming often leads to ideas getting fleshed out without the right credit as the band is just throwing crap at the wall.

Jamming my ass. Please listen to Frantic Moment and you will see what i'm talking about. How can you be "jamming" and creat a track that is note for note some one else's work?

-----
Dude what is your beef? Eddie's CD is hard to get a hold of now and it was not a big seller back in the day. So we don't know if P or Andre ever heard this song.

What we do know is that Andre has been beefing about this tune for over 25 years. Nevermind that he did not write Dance Electric but he did not have any trouble going along with the public thinking he wrote it back in "85"
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Reply #9 posted 02/25/06 3:14pm

Graycap23

laurarichardson said:

Graycap23 said:


Jamming my ass. Please listen to Frantic Moment and you will see what i'm talking about. How can you be "jamming" and creat a track that is note for note some one else's work?

-----
Dude what is your beef? Eddie's CD is hard to get a hold of now and it was not a big seller back in the day. So we don't know if P or Andre ever heard this song.

What we do know is that Andre has been beefing about this tune for over 25 years. Nevermind that he did not write Dance Electric but he did not have any trouble going along with the public thinking he wrote it back in "85"



Beef? Where did you get the idea that I have a beef? I have a simple question. Do me baby is note for note from Eddie Hazel's song. I just want to make sure that that I'm NOT hearing things. I don't belive Prince would have intentionally done that. If it's Cymone's track it would at least make more sense to me. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have 2 songs sound EXACTLY a like, and the second one released be the original. That is not a beef. That is a question.
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Reply #10 posted 02/25/06 3:23pm

Snap

Okay, I've listened and I only see one guitar riff that sounds exact to a riff in "Do Me, Baby" -- the rest of the song sounds P-Funk influenced, as does much of Prince's music, along with influences by many other artists as well: James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Joni, etc. etc. I don't think you can call it stealing if the "feel" of a song is the same. And one exact riff can happen by coincidence. As a songwriter myself, I've found myself doing the same, unknowingly. And I've heard songs released after mine that have one part note-for-note the same as mine -- then I have to explain, "Um, I wrote this before that other song." It happens.
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Reply #11 posted 02/25/06 3:32pm

Graycap23

Snap said:

Okay, I've listened and I only see one guitar riff that sounds exact to a riff in "Do Me, Baby" -- the rest of the song sounds P-Funk influenced, as does much of Prince's music, along with influences by many other artists as well: James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Joni, etc. etc. I don't think you can call it stealing if the "feel" of a song is the same. And one exact riff can happen by coincidence. As a songwriter myself, I've found myself doing the same, unknowingly. And I've heard songs released after mine that have one part note-for-note the same as mine -- then I have to explain, "Um, I wrote this before that other song." It happens.


That "riff" is the basis for the entire musical portion of Do me baby or is that my imagination. Since I happen to be a musician myself, I know when something is similiar vs copied. That riff after the first change is basically the music to "do me baby", or do you disagree?
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Reply #12 posted 02/25/06 3:38pm

ufoclub

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DAMN... you are correct. I'm in the middle of producing some music based on a temp track that my client gave me... and I took a break and I hear it clearly. How funny. Yyou know though, that most of what we make up musically is patched together echoes of past things that have entered our subcinscious music "logic". That's why when someone like Paul McCartney came up with the melody to "Yesterday" he ran about asking friends if they had heard the melody before. I do the same thing if I come up with something that sounds catchy.

Graycap23 said:

I write this in a state of dismay. I NEVER thought that I would be writing a story about Prince possible stealing/borrowing/sampling someone else's work. I was listening to Eddie Hazel's "Frantic Moment" from his 1977 album release of Games, Dames and Guitar Thangs and that track just BLEW me away. Parts of the songs is the music and melody from Prince's "Do me baby" song. It's been 2 days and I still can't believe it. Please find this track and tell me that I'm wrong. Please. -Mg
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Reply #13 posted 02/25/06 3:48pm

Graycap23

ufoclub said:

DAMN... you are correct. I'm in the middle of producing some music based on a temp track that my client gave me... and I took a break and I hear it clearly. How funny. Yyou know though, that most of what we make up musically is patched together echoes of past things that have entered our subcinscious music "logic". That's why when someone like Paul McCartney came up with the melody to "Yesterday" he ran about asking friends if they had heard the melody before. I do the same thing if I come up with something that sounds catchy.

Graycap23 said:

I write this in a state of dismay. I NEVER thought that I would be writing a story about Prince possible stealing/borrowing/sampling someone else's work. I was listening to Eddie Hazel's "Frantic Moment" from his 1977 album release of Games, Dames and Guitar Thangs and that track just BLEW me away. Parts of the songs is the music and melody from Prince's "Do me baby" song. It's been 2 days and I still can't believe it. Please find this track and tell me that I'm wrong. Please. -Mg




At least I know I'm not losing my mind. I don't know what to think about this really. One of my favorite Prince songs coming from another source other than Prince or someone in his camp. Wow. It's interesting because as I listened to that entire album I can hear several other pieces of music from over the years from several artist. P-funk and all of it's branches have not gotten the respect they deserve for all of the people they have infected with the funk. There is a really good documentary on P-Funk on PBS this month. You guys could learn a thing or 2 by checking it out. http://www.pbs.org/indepe...back3.html
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Reply #14 posted 02/25/06 4:09pm

NPG2045

Let's not forget the Prince written lyrics and vocals which make this such a great song, whether or not Andre Cymone came up with the bass riff or not, or if he got it from Eddie Hazel, Prince still did co write this song at the very least.
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Reply #15 posted 02/25/06 4:24pm

Graycap23

NPG2045 said:

Let's not forget the Prince written lyrics and vocals which make this such a great song, whether or not Andre Cymone came up with the bass riff or not, or if he got it from Eddie Hazel, Prince still did co write this song at the very least.


I agree, it's all good. I was just shocked when I heard "do me baby" in the middle of a Hazel track. I damn near crashed on I-285 freeway. -Mg
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Reply #16 posted 02/25/06 4:56pm

ufoclub

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the issue is not the bass riff! Its the whole musical idea.

NPG2045 said:

Let's not forget the Prince written lyrics and vocals which make this such a great song, whether or not Andre Cymone came up with the bass riff or not, or if he got it from Eddie Hazel, Prince still did co write this song at the very least.
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Reply #17 posted 02/25/06 5:04pm

Graycap23

NPG2045 said:

Let's not forget the Prince written lyrics and vocals which make this such a great song, whether or not Andre Cymone came up with the bass riff or not, or if he got it from Eddie Hazel, Prince still did co write this song at the very least.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by "bass" riff. The basic musical track of "do me baby" can be found on this so called riff you guys are talking about. Note for note. the melody on the track is also the melody for the lyrics of Do me baby. Get your facts straight. If you have not listened to the hazel song, you CANNOT hold a conversation about it.

Some musicians just came into the studio, I played it for them and we all are floored. Very interesting. -Mg
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Reply #18 posted 02/25/06 5:57pm

laurarichardso
n

Graycap23 said:

laurarichardson said:


-----
Dude what is your beef? Eddie's CD is hard to get a hold of now and it was not a big seller back in the day. So we don't know if P or Andre ever heard this song.

What we do know is that Andre has been beefing about this tune for over 25 years. Nevermind that he did not write Dance Electric but he did not have any trouble going along with the public thinking he wrote it back in "85"



Beef? Where did you get the idea that I have a beef? I have a simple question. Do me baby is note for note from Eddie Hazel's song. I just want to make sure that that I'm NOT hearing things. I don't belive Prince would have intentionally done that. If it's Cymone's track it would at least make more sense to me. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have 2 songs sound EXACTLY a like, and the second one released be the original. That is not a beef. That is a question.
--
-----
Why is it impossible?
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Reply #19 posted 02/25/06 6:07pm

dealodelandron

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Graycap23 said:

I write this in a state of dismay. I NEVER thought that I would be writing a story about Prince possible stealing/borrowing/sampling someone else's work. I was listening to Eddie Hazel's "Frantic Moment" from his 1977 album release of Games, Dames and Guitar Thangs and that track just BLEW me away. Parts of the songs is the music and melody from Prince's "Do me baby" song. It's been 2 days and I still can't believe it. Please find this track and tell me that I'm wrong. Please. -Mg


i hear what you are saying, i just don't hear that it has been lifted in a blatant and intentional way. perhaps on some unconscious level. he is undoubtedly heavily influenced by hazel. i don't consider these two tracks to be identical. there are only so many notes and chords.

the vocal arrangement and music for 'do me baby fit'. its not like brian mcknight's lifting of meshell ndgeocello's 'outside your door' for his 'anytime'.

what fmarasco was talking about has been the bigger issue in regards to this song. some people say it was andre's...others say they recall it being prince's cut from the beginning.
[Edited 2/25/06 18:20pm]
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Reply #20 posted 02/25/06 6:08pm

vainandy

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laurarichardson said:

Nevermind that he did not write Dance Electric but he did not have any trouble going along with the public thinking he wrote it back in "85"


Oh really? Well I'll have to pull Andre's "AC" album when I get home but I do believe that Prince is listed on it.
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #21 posted 02/25/06 7:14pm

Graycap23

laurarichardson said:

Graycap23 said:




Beef? Where did you get the idea that I have a beef? I have a simple question. Do me baby is note for note from Eddie Hazel's song. I just want to make sure that that I'm NOT hearing things. I don't belive Prince would have intentionally done that. If it's Cymone's track it would at least make more sense to me. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have 2 songs sound EXACTLY a like, and the second one released be the original. That is not a beef. That is a question.
--
-----
Why is it impossible?


I really never thought of Prince as an artist that would even have the need to use someone elses work in a noncreative copycat type of way. IMHO Prince is the number one musician that EVER live. That said, I was shocked to hear what's on a part of this song which is 95% of the musical outline for Prince's "do me baby", note for note. Just my 2 cents.
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Reply #22 posted 02/25/06 7:51pm

Astasheiks

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Graycap23 said:

ufoclub said:

DAMN... you are correct. I'm in the middle of producing some music based on a temp track that my client gave me... and I took a break and I hear it clearly. How funny. Yyou know though, that most of what we make up musically is patched together echoes of past things that have entered our subcinscious music "logic". That's why when someone like Paul McCartney came up with the melody to "Yesterday" he ran about asking friends if they had heard the melody before. I do the same thing if I come up with something that sounds catchy.





At least I know I'm not losing my mind. I don't know what to think about this really. One of my favorite Prince songs coming from another source other than Prince or someone in his camp. Wow. It's interesting because as I listened to that entire album I can hear several other pieces of music from over the years from several artist. P-funk and all of it's branches have not gotten the respect they deserve for all of the people they have infected with the funk. There is a really good documentary on P-Funk on PBS this month. You guys could learn a thing or 2 by checking it out. http://www.pbs.org/indepe...back3.html


Glad you reminded me of that Documentary. wink
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Reply #23 posted 02/25/06 9:44pm

KrystleEyes

can u make an mp3 of that song and post a link for the rest of us that are curious to hear it (Note for pirates with locks - im not asking for anything from prince here, just, apparently, his inspiration...)
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Reply #24 posted 02/25/06 9:50pm

tane1976

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Didnt Prince take Andres bass groove for Do Me Baby in late 80 or early 81, whereas Dance electric wasnt cut until late 84. What about the four year gap. Didnt that Do Me Baby shit make Andre leave the band, he got sick of being in the shadows, originally Princes equal and now just a base player?

In late 80 wasnt Prince doin favours for Morris Day. Still he may have nicked the groove off Eddie and Andre, but he made it his own. The end result is pure Prince seduction!!
17 Years ago I made a commitment to Prince
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Reply #25 posted 02/25/06 9:54pm

Graycap23

tane1976 said:

Didnt Prince take Andres bass groove for Do Me Baby in late 80 or early 81, whereas Dance electric wasnt cut until late 84. What about the four year gap. Didnt that Do Me Baby shit make Andre leave the band, he got sick of being in the shadows, originally Princes equal and now just a base player?

In late 80 wasnt Prince doin favours for Morris Day. Still he may have nicked the groove off Eddie and Andre, but he made it his own. The end result is pure Prince seduction!!


Actually the final version of Do me baby is pretty much note for note from the part of hazel's song that they used for Do me baby.
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Reply #26 posted 02/25/06 10:06pm

TheBigBang

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I won't believe any of this until I hear the comparison. I find it odd that, 25 years later, you're the one all of a sudden bringing this to everyone's attention.
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Reply #27 posted 02/25/06 10:21pm

Graycap23

TheBigBang said:

I won't believe any of this until I hear the comparison. I find it odd that, 25 years later, you're the one all of a sudden bringing this to everyone's attention.


I really don't know how to post a link where people can listen to the track, other wise I would. -Mg
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Reply #28 posted 02/25/06 10:24pm

Graycap23

TheBigBang said:

I won't believe any of this until I hear the comparison. I find it odd that, 25 years later, you're the one all of a sudden bringing this to everyone's attention.



It's interesting that you would say that. I did not even know that Eddie Hazel had an album out until 3 days ago. I picked it up and listened to it for the 1st time 2 days ago. -Mg
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Reply #29 posted 02/25/06 10:28pm

TheBigBang

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I found a link to the song. I hope this doesn't screw up the site from where I got it. I don't see anything exact about the two songs at all.

But, you be the judge...

http://www.onesoulfulnegr...moment.mp3
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