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Thread started 03/28/05 1:00pm

Krystal666

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Did you think Prince was a misogonist when you first saw Purple Rain?

Be honest. I did. I remember thinking Prince is cool but seriously what is his problem with women? After I saw that movie, and lising to some of his lyrics I remember thinking to myself that he gets off on humiliating women for some werid reason. Did you get that impression after you saw that movie?
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Reply #1 posted 03/28/05 1:01pm

Nothinbutjoy

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I didn't get that impression. I saw that it was a movie with great music performances w/ really bad acting in between.
I'm firmly planted in denial
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Reply #2 posted 03/28/05 1:09pm

Tish4

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Well, no
You can't build something new, without destroying something old



<<---;;;
------;;;;;'
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Reply #3 posted 03/28/05 1:26pm

Anxiety

i remember that even though we both loved watching 'purple rain' so much that we went to the movies six times to see the damn thing, my mom always had the complaint that prince must not care for women very much to have them treated the way they were in that movie. i wasn't really able to argue her points very much at the time (well, i was only 13, so i wasn't really up on my women's studies), and i do think prince's view of women has matured significantly since that movie came out...or at least, i hope so! lol
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Reply #4 posted 03/28/05 1:33pm

SexyBeautifulO
ne

Nope.
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Reply #5 posted 03/28/05 1:36pm

whodknee

I knew he was.
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Reply #6 posted 03/28/05 1:42pm

whodknee

Unfortunately, I think stardom would do nothing but reinforce those beliefs. He knows on some level most-- if not all of the women he's been with or that scream for him-- wouldn't give him the time of day if he weren't "Prince". I'm sure part of what drove him was to be in that position where he could make them feel like he felt. Once he got what he wanted that is.
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Reply #7 posted 03/28/05 2:01pm

Aerogram

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I was already aware of Prince's mysoginy when I saw PR, and that movie sort of let fans hope he was becoming less of a male chauvinist pig, though by no means completely reformed. I think his attitude is only relatively better now. He used the view women as defined by Penthouse, and now it's as defined by his interpretation of the bible.
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Reply #8 posted 03/28/05 2:06pm

JediMaster

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Well, I always thought that a major point of that movie was the cycle of abuse, which is very real. I saw The Kid hating his father for the way he treats his mother, yet at the same time he's oblivious to the fact that he himself is treating women that way. I think the whole point of the moment when he plays "Purple Rain" is that he has come to the realization that he was turning into a chauvinistic dick, much like his dad, and that he had to break the cycle or else he would wind up the same way.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #9 posted 03/28/05 2:14pm

whodknee

JediMaster said:

Well, I always thought that a major point of that movie was the cycle of abuse, which is very real. I saw The Kid hating his father for the way he treats his mother, yet at the same time he's oblivious to the fact that he himself is treating women that way. I think the whole point of the moment when he plays "Purple Rain" is that he has come to the realization that he was turning into a chauvinistic dick, much like his dad, and that he had to break the cycle or else he would wind up the same way.



That's called spin. What would explain Morris' actions then?

On second thought I think we're all right because there's likely to be more than one reason for the misogyny. It's also more than a reflection on Prince because the directors, producers, studio, bandmembers, etc. went along with it.
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Reply #10 posted 03/28/05 2:17pm

Anxiety

of course, what we don't consider is that in reality, if The Kid tried to raise his lace-gloved hand to just about any woman in the world, she'd probably be able to stuff his pert little ass into a microwave and enjoy him as a light afternoon snack. lol
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Reply #11 posted 03/28/05 3:48pm

Krystal666

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Aerogram said:

I was already aware of Prince's mysoginy when I saw PR, and that movie sort of let fans hope he was becoming less of a male chauvinist pig, though by no means completely reformed. I think his attitude is only relatively better now. He used the view women as defined by Penthouse, and now it's as defined by his interpretation of the bible.


Does he? In all honesty I think he has changed the way he treats women. But I don't know if I would think he is any less sexist now. In fact I think he is just as chavanistic but in a diffrent way. Listen to the way he talks about women in his interviews. Like on the view when he was discribing how he didn't like people touching Mayte. On TRL how if we stop the battle of the sexes men and women will fall into their proper roles. Whatever that means! And remember when Kevin Smith was discribing how Prince was preaching the bible as order Man, then woman and all the women were not having that! Just seems like he is using the bible to excuse his sexist additude.

To be fair I would say P. Control is a very inspiring and feminist song but I can also see how alot of women might even be offended by that because basicaly saying a woman's power is through her pussy, which it very well may be but alot of women might see that as a chavanistic way of looking at femminisim.

I think Prince still may have a negative view of women.
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Reply #12 posted 03/28/05 3:51pm

Handclapsfinga
snapz

no.
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Reply #13 posted 03/28/05 3:57pm

rudeboynpg

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whodknee said:

I knew he was.


"LAY OFF THAT!"
Goodnight, sweet Prince.
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Reply #14 posted 03/28/05 3:57pm

AsianBomb777

Nope.


I thought he was gay.
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Reply #15 posted 03/28/05 4:03pm

rudeboynpg

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AsianBomb777 said:

Nope.


I thought he was gay.


Goodnight, sweet Prince.
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Reply #16 posted 03/28/05 4:04pm

AsianBomb777

rudeboynpg said:

AsianBomb777 said:

Nope.


I thought he was gay.



falloff
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Reply #17 posted 03/28/05 5:05pm

origmnd

If you treat a woman who WANTS to be treated like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynist?

If you treat a woman who LETS people treat her like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynst?

If you treat a woman who USES herself
to manipulate like shit does that make a man a misogynist?
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Reply #18 posted 03/28/05 5:05pm

laurarichardso
n

whodknee said:

JediMaster said:

Well, I always thought that a major point of that movie was the cycle of abuse, which is very real. I saw The Kid hating his father for the way he treats his mother, yet at the same time he's oblivious to the fact that he himself is treating women that way. I think the whole point of the moment when he plays "Purple Rain" is that he has come to the realization that he was turning into a chauvinistic dick, much like his dad, and that he had to break the cycle or else he would wind up the same way.



That's called spin. What would explain Morris' actions then?

On second thought I think we're all right because there's likely to be more than one reason for the misogyny. It's also more than a reflection on Prince because the directors, producers, studio, bandmembers, etc. went along with it.

-----
You guys should listen to the voice over on the PR DVD. Some of the movie came from things that happen to Prince growing up or at least tht is what the director said.
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Reply #19 posted 03/28/05 5:06pm

laurarichardso
n

AsianBomb777 said:

Nope.


I thought he was gay.

-----
Wishful thinking for you Asian Bomb.
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Reply #20 posted 03/28/05 5:32pm

HalluRain

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Krystal666 said:[
To be fair I would say P. Control is a very inspiring and feminist song but I can also see how alot of women might even be offended by that because basicaly saying a woman's power is through her pussy, which it very well may be but alot of women might see that as a chavanistic way of looking at femminisim.

I think Prince still may have a negative view of women.[/quote]

I hear a lot of folks say that P. Control is about a woman having power because of her sex, but I never get that from the song. Listening to the lyrics, it's more about a woman who has control of her sexuality and puts her goals first, not allowing her "pussy" to control her and fall into a trap of succumbing to a relationship that leads her off track. Guys may step to her, but she controls her destiny, gets her degree and finds success.

As to Prince being a misogonist, I never got that, either. The Kid was a role loosely based on his life, but it was a ROLE. So just based on the movie, I made no assumptions as to what the man is really like.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, keep me here.
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Reply #21 posted 03/28/05 5:44pm

TheOrgerFormer
lyKnownAs

origmnd said:

If you treat a woman who WANTS to be treated like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynist?

If you treat a woman who LETS people treat her like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynst?

If you treat a woman who USES herself
to manipulate like shit does that make a man a misogynist?
I kind of agree with you but it doesn't excuse the way P used to treat women. to me, he was still a misogynist, whether the women agreed to let him treat them that way or not.
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Reply #22 posted 03/28/05 5:48pm

squirrelgrease

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Of course. Almost every scene has obvious or underlying objectification and/or hatred towards the fairer sex. It was Prince's star vehicle, so most of the blame should indeed go to him. The '80's were not PC times, but he should have known enough to get it toned down.































Nudity's one thing, but throwin' a bitch in a dumpster?
If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot.
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Reply #23 posted 03/28/05 10:56pm

meow85

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origmnd said:

If you treat a woman who WANTS to be treated like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynist?

If you treat a woman who LETS people treat her like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynst?

If you treat a woman who USES herself
to manipulate like shit does that make a man a misogynist?


Yes, yes, and yes.

Using her weakness as a way of excusing mysoginistic behaviour is still mysoginistic, possibly even more so than it would be normally.
[Edited 3/28/05 22:57pm]
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #24 posted 03/28/05 11:06pm

Shapeshifter

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Krystal666 said:

Be honest. I did. I remember thinking Prince is cool but seriously what is his problem with women? After I saw that movie, and lising to some of his lyrics I remember thinking to myself that he gets off on humiliating women for some werid reason. Did you get that impression after you saw that movie?



Nope. I just thought he was a fucking shit actor. wink
[Edited 3/28/05 23:06pm]
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
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Reply #25 posted 03/29/05 6:43am

JediMaster

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whodknee said:

JediMaster said:

Well, I always thought that a major point of that movie was the cycle of abuse, which is very real. I saw The Kid hating his father for the way he treats his mother, yet at the same time he's oblivious to the fact that he himself is treating women that way. I think the whole point of the moment when he plays "Purple Rain" is that he has come to the realization that he was turning into a chauvinistic dick, much like his dad, and that he had to break the cycle or else he would wind up the same way.



That's called spin. What would explain Morris' actions then?

On second thought I think we're all right because there's likely to be more than one reason for the misogyny. It's also more than a reflection on Prince because the directors, producers, studio, bandmembers, etc. went along with it.


Well, we weren't discussing whether or not Morris is a misogynist, we were talking about Prince, but I'll still bite. Morris's character is the antagonist, and thus should NOT be seen as being better than The Kid. The whole thing is about The Kid overcoming his environment, and stopping himself before he becomes no better than Morris, his father or whatnot. I personally do think that misogyney is a theme of the film, but I don't think its intended as an endorsement. I'm not saying the film does this well, just that I always got that from it.

As for it "being more than a reflection on Prince", well, I think its more a reflection on the screenwriter. I realize that Prince had plenty of input, but my understanding is that he gave the directors, screenwriters and what not far more control on PR, because he knew jack about making movies. After PR, he decided he could do it himself, and that was why he directed UTCM and GB (which proved he still knew jack about it, he just thought he had gotten the hang of it)
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #26 posted 03/29/05 10:42am

laylow03

To be honest, some songs did bother me and I did used to cringe at the "Gett Off" video, treating women as objects. However, someone once explained something to me that I thought sums it up quite well: Prince demeans and liberates women at the same time. Seems to be quite frustrated that women aren't allowed to express their sexuality in the same way as men and wishes that they would.
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Reply #27 posted 03/29/05 10:59am

FunkMistress

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meow85 said:

origmnd said:

If you treat a woman who WANTS to be treated like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynist?

If you treat a woman who LETS people treat her like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynst?

If you treat a woman who USES herself
to manipulate like shit does that make a man a misogynist?


Yes, yes, and yes.



Thank you.
CHICKENS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO COCAINE, SILKY HEN.
The Normal Whores Club
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Reply #28 posted 03/29/05 12:34pm

Heidi

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yes and i still think prince is a misogynist today -
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Reply #29 posted 03/29/05 2:42pm

origmnd

meow85 said:

origmnd said:

If you treat a woman who WANTS to be treated like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynist?

If you treat a woman who LETS people treat her like shit like shit does that make a man a misogynst?

If you treat a woman who USES herself
to manipulate like shit does that make a man a misogynist?


Yes, yes, and yes.

Using her weakness as a way of excusing mysoginistic behaviour is still mysoginistic, possibly even more so than it would be normally.
[Edited 3/28/05 22:57pm]



If people would learn to spell the word..


I wasn't sayning it is an EXCUSE for that male behaviour ...just that it may LOOK like that by the way the woman resonds/ reacts/ presents herself.
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