Thinking of Prince and how he used it in Black Muse, I'm leaning towards the music/crying reference.

This is what jumped out at me

.

5....A nuptial number for the Etruscans and Romans because it is the first number resulting from the addition the first female number and the first male number.

.

For the same reason, C. Agrippa calls it the number of the marriage. .

.

For H.- P. Blavatsky, "5 is the spirit of life and human love."

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

i've seen that one, its good...

.

Now, more and more, seeing the way she was, the way she looked the last 20 years of her life...it makes me wonder why he wrote sexy songs about her??? She was so far from that in her later years...i wonder if she knew, if she cared and if she was embarassed by it at all..she became pretty conservative, always covered up..nothing sexual about her anymore.

Prince lost his sexy too. Always thought it was a pity, for both. Neither seemed to be able to be sexy without engaging in excessive behavior or destructive thought patterns.

I'm looking at the video Holy River from 2007 which he made out of the video from Empty Room.

He's clearly talking about Denise here.

http://www.videodetective.com/music/the-holy-river/126869

notice the eye at 00:26 and the end of the video, it is inside what looks like (clears throat) intimate female anatomy.

.

Nope, it has been well documented that The Holy River was about spiritual enlightenment and about his asking Mayte to marry him. Not everything is about Denise. You all are reaching on much of this.

benni said:

beachy said:

Prince lost his sexy too. Always thought it was a pity, for both. Neither seemed to be able to be sexy without engaging in excessive behavior or destructive thought patterns.

I'm looking at the video Holy River from 2007 which he made out of the video from Empty Room.

He's clearly talking about Denise here.

http://www.videodetective.com/music/the-holy-river/126869

notice the eye at 00:26 and the end of the video, it is inside what looks like (clears throat) intimate female anatomy.

.

Nope, it has been well documented that The Holy River was about spiritual enlightenment and about his asking Mayte to marry him. Not everything is about Denise. You all are reaching on much of this.

I'd like to know more about this. Do you have articles or sources I can explore? Thanks.

Also, you all are neglecting the fact that when he first saw Mayte, he stated that he had just seen his future wife. He was completely smitten with her from first sight.

.

We all have experienced more than one love in our life, or most of us have. Each relationship prepares us for the next. We learn more about ourselves as we grow through each relationship and about what we want and don't want. Prince and Denise were perfect for each other when they were young, and while they were together. But as we grown and mature, we change. Denise was not the same woman Prince had originally fallen in love with, nor was he the same man Denise had fallen in love with. Who is to say that who they became would have even been interested in the other.

.

As with all young loves, we tend to idealize that person and remember the good. But often when we get back with that person, we discover that person has changed and we no longer know them. Not only do we no longer know them, but we may find there are too many differences between us now to ever bridge the gap of years that may have passed.

.

It's nice to romanticize a relationship, but often the reality is much different. Denise and Prince were no longer together for a reason and obviously Prince had no further desire to get back with Denise, nor she him, since they were not together. Yes, he loved who Denise had been to him, loved the memories, and he mourned her passing. Just as he would have done if it had been Mayte or Mani, or any other woman he had been intimate with and had such a serious relationship with. I have mourned the passing of an ex, and was deeply saddened by his passing, but that does not mean that I lamented the fact that we were no longer together. He was a part of my life at one time, a significant part of it, but he was an "ex" for a reason. Just as Prince was an ex for Denise for a reason, and Denise was an ex for Prince for a reason. Yes, they always loved each other. Real love never dies, but that does not mean the two belonged together. They were making each other miserable and unhappy and causing each other a lot of stress and pain. That is not a happy relationship.

Hi Benni

Thanks for the lecture on love but I've had many loves myself so I don't need it, and this thread is about Prince.

Prince did not say that about Mayte it was Rosie Gaines who told Prince, There goes your future wife.

Peace.

Beachy

[Edited 5/31/16 18:16pm]

GeniusLuv said:

This is what jumped out at me

.

5....A nuptial number for the Etruscans and Romans because it is the first number resulting from the addition the first female number and the first male number.

.

For the same reason, C. Agrippa calls it the number of the marriage. .

.

For H.- P. Blavatsky, "5 is the spirit of life and human love."

Those jumped out to me too but maybe in the context of the video, it does fit the music & crying thing. Maybe that is why we see him putting the earphones on her. If she listens, she'll cry?

purplegirl00 said:

benni said:

.

Nope, it has been well documented that The Holy River was about spiritual enlightenment and about his asking Mayte to marry him. Not everything is about Denise. You all are reaching on much of this.

I'd like to know more about this. Do you have articles or sources I can explore? Thanks.

.

Oprah interview with Prince and Mayte on youtube. Prince even states that he has never been "this much in love" as he is with Mayte and Oprah asks him if he ever thought he would find a love like this and Prince replied, "Yeah, it was a dream. I almost willed her to me."

.

Interesting note about this, another band, Savage Garden, actually wrote the song Truly, Madly, Deeply about Prince and Mayte and Prince stating that he knew he loved Mayte before they ever met.

beachy said:

Hi Benni

Thanks for the lecture on love but I've had many loves myself so I don't need it, and this thread is about Prince.

Prince did not say that about Mayte it was Rosie Gaines who told Prince, There goes your future wife.

Peace.

Beachy

[Edited 5/31/16 18:16pm]

.

Really? Hmm...I suppose I should just take your words over Prince actually saying this in the Oprah interview (Part 2) right at the beginning actually. Prince stated that when he saw Mayte, "I saw her and her mother outside of a concert in Frankfurt and umm, I said, "That's my future wife."

benni said:

purplegirl00 said:

I'd like to know more about this. Do you have articles or sources I can explore? Thanks.

.

Oprah interview with Prince and Mayte on youtube. Prince even states that he has never been "this much in love" as he is with Mayte and Oprah asks him if he ever thought he would find a love like this and Prince replied, "Yeah, it was a dream. I almost willed her to me."

.

Interesting note about this, another band, Savage Garden, actually wrote the song Truly, Madly, Deeply about Prince and Mayte and Prince stating that he knew he loved Mayte before they ever met.

Not trying to be disrespectful but this thread was about Prince and Denise dying so close together and their friendship; similar paths in life and the twinsoul connection.

Prince and Mayte were married yes but nothing to do with Prince and Denise.

Vashtix said:

benni said:

.

Oprah interview with Prince and Mayte on youtube. Prince even states that he has never been "this much in love" as he is with Mayte and Oprah asks him if he ever thought he would find a love like this and Prince replied, "Yeah, it was a dream. I almost willed her to me."

.

Interesting note about this, another band, Savage Garden, actually wrote the song Truly, Madly, Deeply about Prince and Mayte and Prince stating that he knew he loved Mayte before they ever met.

Not trying to be disrespectful but this thread was about Prince and Denise dying so close together and their friendship; similar paths in life and the twinsoul connection.

Prince and Mayte were married yes but nothing to do with Prince and Denise.

.

Yes, and I am pointing out that you all are reaching on a lot of this. Trying to say The Holy River was about Denise, or other songs on Emancipation, when the whole album was centered around his getting freedom from WB and his relationship with Mayte. I do not believe Denise was his twin soul, nor that they had similar paths in life. And since this is a message board and posts are open to all to post and voice their opinions, I am merely pointing out the fallacy of some of the arguments about just how in love with Denise Prince was. When in his own words, his own voice, he stated he had never been this much in love as he was with Mayte. Also, purplegirl asked for more information and sources, which I gave her. Would you rather I ignore her?

benni said:

Vashtix said:

Not trying to be disrespectful but this thread was about Prince and Denise dying so close together and their friendship; similar paths in life and the twinsoul connection.

Prince and Mayte were married yes but nothing to do with Prince and Denise.

.

Yes, and I am pointing out that you all are reaching on a lot of this. Trying to say The Holy River was about Denise, or other songs on Emancipation, when the whole album was centered around his getting freedom from WB and his relationship with Mayte. I do not believe Denise was his twin soul, nor that they had similar paths in life. And since this is a message board and posts are open to all to post and voice their opinions, I am merely pointing out the fallacy of some of the arguments about just how in love with Denise Prince was. When in his own words, his own voice, he stated he had never been this much in love as he was with Mayte. Also, purplegirl asked for more information and sources, which I gave her. Would you rather I ignore her?

Thanks for not ignoring. I went to watch the interview. Yes, he did say what you said he said, but that was 20 years ago. Let me make this clear... I am NOT saying he didn't care or love her, but he did have the marriage ANULLED. That is NOT something you do to your soulmate. That's just the truth. I have never had ANY ill will towards Mayte and in fact, I think she got the raw end of the deal- in the worse way (loss of their baby and then marriage anulled). I really FEEL for her and she is NOT any less of a woman because of it. On this thread we have been discussing Prince and his connection to Denise throughout the years and while you think it's reaching, fallacy, or don't agree that they had similar paths in life, doesn't mean that they weren't there. Their relationship took place over 30 years ago. That's enough time for him to have gotten her out of his system for good. Yet, THIS year, 2016, she dies. He pours his heart out in a tribute concert in Melbourne and then again in concerts afterwards. He says things that you would not expect a man to say about woman he was with 30+ years ago. Then weeks later, he's gone. I am NOT saying she was THE main reason for his death, but it's AWFULLY close to be only coincidence.

[Edited 5/31/16 19:07pm]

purplegirl00 said:

benni said:

.

Yes, and I am pointing out that you all are reaching on a lot of this. Trying to say The Holy River was about Denise, or other songs on Emancipation, when the whole album was centered around his getting freedom from WB and his relationship with Mayte. I do not believe Denise was his twin soul, nor that they had similar paths in life. And since this is a message board and posts are open to all to post and voice their opinions, I am merely pointing out the fallacy of some of the arguments about just how in love with Denise Prince was. When in his own words, his own voice, he stated he had never been this much in love as he was with Mayte. Also, purplegirl asked for more information and sources, which I gave her. Would you rather I ignore her?

Thanks for not ignoring. I went to watch the interview. Yes, he did say what you said he said, but that was 20 years ago. Let me make this clear... I am NOT saying he didn't care or love her, but he did have the marriage ANULLED. That is NOT something you do to your soulmate. That's just the truth. I have never had ANY ill will towards Mayte and in fact, I think she got the raw end of the deal- in the worse way (loss of their baby and then marriage anulled). I really FEEL for her and she is NOT any less of a woman because of it. On this thread we have been discussing Prince and his connection to Denise throughout the years and while you think it's reaching, fallacy, or don't agree that they had similar paths in life, doesn't mean that they weren't there. Their relationship took place over 30 years ago. That's enough time for him to have gotten her out of his system for good. Yet, THIS year, 2016, she dies. He pours his heart out in a tribute concert in Melbourne and then again in concerts afterwards. He says things that you would not expect a man to say about woman he was with 30+ years ago. Then weeks later, he's gone. I am NOT saying she was THE main reason for his death, but it's AWFULLY close to be only coincidence.

[Edited 5/31/16 19:07pm]

.

Thank you, but I prefer to take Prince's own words over conjecture by fans. Prince stated in the interview that he and Mayte were soulmates, that they knew each other in a previous life, and that perhaps they were the same person (which is the definition of a Twin Flame/Twin Soul). An anullment is a much gentler separation than divorce. And if anyone has studied twin flames or soul mates, they often do not last, as they come here to teach each other important (and difficult) life lessons. Because of this, the relationship often ends once those lessons have been given. Prince, in his own voice, his own words, stated he and Mayte were soul mates, and I'll trust him over a fan's conjecture on what he meant when he sang certain songs.

.

However, since you all seem to be determined to make Vanity his soul mate, regardless of what Prince had to say on the subject, go on with your bad selves! I just stepped in because you all tried to connect The Holy River to Vanity, when it was written for Mayte. Don't take that from her.

benni said:

beachy said:

Prince lost his sexy too. Always thought it was a pity, for both. Neither seemed to be able to be sexy without engaging in excessive behavior or destructive thought patterns.

I'm looking at the video Holy River from 2007 which he made out of the video from Empty Room.

He's clearly talking about Denise here.

http://www.videodetective.com/music/the-holy-river/126869

notice the eye at 00:26 and the end of the video, it is inside what looks like (clears throat) intimate female anatomy.

.

Nope, it has been well documented that The Holy River was about spiritual enlightenment and about his asking Mayte to marry him. Not everything is about Denise. You all are reaching on much of this.

Hi Benni I'd agree with you. Actually, I wrote it on here a couple of pages back. The Holy River only came into view I think because part of the video comes from Empty Room.

.

I'm sorry if you have the impression that this thread is being disrespectful towards any of his significant others that he had in his life. Everyone has actually tried to stay well clear of talking about Mayte or Mani or anyone else at all - if you go back through the thread you will see that.

.

You're right everything isn't about Denise. It has just been surprising some of the the things we have uncovered. I can only speak for myself that I was shocked about the "mirror" connection in the videos. We've actually looked at very few videos at all and some of them were discounted immediately like The One (and interestingly it has no mirrors).

.

The mirror thing has inspired alot of discussion around the themes/symbolism he uses and the meanings behind this, for example, his heavy use of water etc. There has been alot of enthusiasm to see what else is there. So we've been looking at lyrics and videos assessing them to try and find common threads to understand the language/symbolism he uses better.

.

And it's proved to be quite cathartic because the sad posts seemed to have stopped but maybe that would have happened anyway. Of course you're welcome here, if you want to be part of things.

Sunnygirl8

[Edited 5/31/16 19:45pm]

SunnyGirl8 said:

benni said:

.

Nope, it has been well documented that The Holy River was about spiritual enlightenment and about his asking Mayte to marry him. Not everything is about Denise. You all are reaching on much of this.

Hi Benni I'd agree with you. Actually, I wrote it on here a couple of pages back. The Holy River only came into view I think because part of the video comes from Empty Room.

.

I'm sorry if you have the impression that this thread is being disrespectful towards any of his significant others that he had in his life. Everyone has actually tried to stay well clear of talking about Mayte or Mani or anyone else at all - if you go back through the thread you will see that.

.

You're right everything isn't about Denise. It has just been surprising some of the the things we have uncovered. I can only speak for myself that I was shocked about the "mirror" connection in the videos. We've actually looked at very few videos at all and some of them were discounted immediately like The One (and interestingly it has no mirrors).

.

The mirror thing has inspired alot of discussion around the themes/symbolism he uses and the meanings behind this, for example, his heavy use of water etc. There has been alot of enthusiasm to see what else is there. So we've been looking at lyrics and videos assessing them to try and find common threads to understand the language/symbolism he uses better.

.

And it's proved to be quite cathartic because the sad posts seemed to have stopped but maybe that would have happened anyway. Of course you're welcome here, if you want to be part of things.

Sunnygirl8

[Edited 5/31/16 19:45pm]

.

Thank you SunnyGirl. Empty Room, however, was written for a movie James L. Brooks "I'll Do Anything". So not sure how the connection from Empty Room, to The Holy River, to Denise came about.

.

As for mirrors, as spiritually aware as Prince is, have you ever cnnsidered that the mirrors were a reflection of vanity, as in a part of pride, as in a deadly sin? Much of what Prince has written over the years reflects more his spiritual teachings, and I would look to that before I would start thinking that the mirrors in his songs represented a person.

.

Water is associated with baptism, spiritual cleansing.

.

These are the things I see in Prince's music. But I suppose we all see what we want to see.

benni said:

purplegirl00 said:

Thanks for not ignoring. I went to watch the interview. Yes, he did say what you said he said, but that was 20 years ago. Let me make this clear... I am NOT saying he didn't care or love her, but he did have the marriage ANULLED. That is NOT something you do to your soulmate. That's just the truth. I have never had ANY ill will towards Mayte and in fact, I think she got the raw end of the deal- in the worse way (loss of their baby and then marriage anulled). I really FEEL for her and she is NOT any less of a woman because of it. On this thread we have been discussing Prince and his connection to Denise throughout the years and while you think it's reaching, fallacy, or don't agree that they had similar paths in life, doesn't mean that they weren't there. Their relationship took place over 30 years ago. That's enough time for him to have gotten her out of his system for good. Yet, THIS year, 2016, she dies. He pours his heart out in a tribute concert in Melbourne and then again in concerts afterwards. He says things that you would not expect a man to say about woman he was with 30+ years ago. Then weeks later, he's gone. I am NOT saying she was THE main reason for his death, but it's AWFULLY close to be only coincidence.

[Edited 5/31/16 19:07pm]

.

Thank you, but I prefer to take Prince's own words over conjecture by fans. Prince stated in the interview that he and Mayte were soulmates, that they knew each other in a previous life, and that perhaps they were the same person (which is the definition of a Twin Flame/Twin Soul). An anullment is a much gentler separation than divorce. And if anyone has studied twin flames or soul mates, they often do not last, as they come here to teach each other important (and difficult) life lessons. Because of this, the relationship often ends once those lessons have been given. Prince, in his own voice, his own words, stated he and Mayte were soul mates, and I'll trust him over a fan's conjecture on what he meant when he sang certain songs.

.

However, since you all seem to be determined to make Vanity his soul mate, regardless of what Prince had to say on the subject, go on with your bad selves! I just stepped in because you all tried to connect The Holy River to Vanity, when it was written for Mayte. Don't take that from her.

I think the whole soulmate/twinsoul thing is a pickup line. He said something similar to Vanity years before it- that she was the female version of him. Take what you will from it.

.

Really? Anullment is gentler than divorce? To me, that would be more of a slap in the face than a divorce. Anullment means treats the marriage like it never happened. If I were Mayte, that would've been extremely difficult to deal with (on top of the death of my baby).

.

"bad selves"- real niiiiice. I'm not getting in an argument with you about who was the real soulmate/twinsoul thing. It's dumb and sounds like baiting. Peace.

purplegirl00 said:

benni said:

.

Thank you, but I prefer to take Prince's own words over conjecture by fans. Prince stated in the interview that he and Mayte were soulmates, that they knew each other in a previous life, and that perhaps they were the same person (which is the definition of a Twin Flame/Twin Soul). An anullment is a much gentler separation than divorce. And if anyone has studied twin flames or soul mates, they often do not last, as they come here to teach each other important (and difficult) life lessons. Because of this, the relationship often ends once those lessons have been given. Prince, in his own voice, his own words, stated he and Mayte were soul mates, and I'll trust him over a fan's conjecture on what he meant when he sang certain songs.

.

However, since you all seem to be determined to make Vanity his soul mate, regardless of what Prince had to say on the subject, go on with your bad selves! I just stepped in because you all tried to connect The Holy River to Vanity, when it was written for Mayte. Don't take that from her.

I think the whole soulmate/twinsoul thing is a pickup line. He said something similar to Vanity years before it- that she was the female version of him. Take what you will from it.

.

Really? Anullment is gentler than divorce? To me, that would be more of a slap in the face than a divorce. Anullment means treats the marriage like it never happened. If I were Mayte, that would've been extremely difficult to deal with (on top of the death of my baby).

.

"bad selves"- real niiiiice. I'm not getting in an argument with you about who was the real soulmate/twinsoul thing. It's dumb and sounds like baiting. Peace.

.

The "bad selves" was not meant in a bad way. As for a pick-up line, I don't think so. He didn't say that Vanity was his soul mate, rather she was a lot like him "female version of himself". I have a dear friend that I feel is the male version of myself, meaning that we have a lot of the same ideologies, same thought processes, but he's not a soul mate.

Anullment is definitely gentler than divorce. Ever been divorced? It creates a lot of negative energy and negative outcomes. And I am not arguing with who is his "soul mate" because there is no argument to be had. Prince said it himself and I'll trust his words over conjecture.

Take care and have fun with your explorations! You seem to be finding what you want to find. I guess that is all that's important, right?

Prince is gone and we will never know some things BUT what I do know is his death was so close after Denise's death and I for one will always say that his soul/spirit could not be here without hers

That is what hooked me to this thread initially and that is what I believe

Videos,lyrics will never change what happened in the universe and that is not belittling anyone or anything else in his life but that is a fact.

Oh and his tribute in Melbourne . . . that speaks for itself too.

again not belittling anyone or anything just saying for me it sealed it. He appears to have had a connection that did not die to Denise that was deeper than I ever thought.

What The Ballad of Dorothy Parker was really about:

.

Susan Rogers: Right. I hadn’t finished testing the audio wiring or anything; in other words I had just soldered the last connection and Prince said, “Let’s record.” He had been asleep and had this dream about a woman and a bathtub and a waitress and all that, he scribbled down all those lyrics very quickly and called it “The Ballad of Dorothy Parker.” I don’t know how aware he was of who Dorothy Parker actually was, but he knew the name, so it wasn’t the real historical Dorothy Parker; and it was inspired by Joni Mitchell, I remember him saying that. Anyway, he came running downstairs, we put in fresh tape and started recording. As always, he’s playing every instrument and I’m just panicking on the inside because something doesn’t sound right–it’s really dull, there’s no high end and I can’t wait for this song to be finished because I’ve got to check it out and see what’s going on. Of course the song is coming out really well and the whole time I’m thinking, ‘I wish he would just stop,’ (laughs) but that’s not going to happen. The whole time he hasn’t even said anything, hadn’t even commented on it and I know he hears it but he’s really happy because he likes this song. At the very end, he gave me my final instructions and he said, “There’s something about this console that doesn’t sound like the one at Sunset Sound, it’s really dull,” and then he goes upstairs and goes to bed. I’m thinking, ‘Hell yeah it’s dull, there’s no high end at all!’ (laughs) So he goes upstairs and goes to bed and then I finally had a chance to test the board and it turns out that it was working on only half the power, and one side of the bipolar supply had gone out, so it was just drawing half the current. But he conceived of the song in a dream so he didn’t mind that at all because it gave it this dreamy-like quality.

Vashtix said:

Prince is gone and we will never know some things BUT what I do know is his death was so close after Denise's death and I for one will always say that his soul/spirit could not be here without hers

That is what hooked me to this thread initially and that is what I believe

Videos,lyrics will never change what happened in the universe and that is not belittling anyone or anything else in his life but that is a fact.

Oh and his tribute in Melbourne . . . that speaks for itself too.

again not belittling anyone or anything just saying for me it sealed it. He appears to have had a connection that did not die to Denise that was deeper than I ever thought.

.

He would have dedicated his concert to Mayte or Mani, had it been them that passed. These are women he was intimate with, loved, shared a part of his life with. Of course it effected him, as it would any one else. Yes, Denise's passing had an impact on our man, but so would the passing of any of the women he had fallen in love with. Denise had some serious health issues. Prince was battling with his own health issues. We're getting older. Life happens, and a part of life is death. Eventually, we are all going to follow along. It was merely coincidence the timing of their passing.

benni said:

purplegirl00 said:

I think the whole soulmate/twinsoul thing is a pickup line. He said something similar to Vanity years before it- that she was the female version of him. Take what you will from it.

.

Really? Anullment is gentler than divorce? To me, that would be more of a slap in the face than a divorce. Anullment means treats the marriage like it never happened. If I were Mayte, that would've been extremely difficult to deal with (on top of the death of my baby).

.

"bad selves"- real niiiiice. I'm not getting in an argument with you about who was the real soulmate/twinsoul thing. It's dumb and sounds like baiting. Peace.

.

The "bad selves" was not meant in a bad way. As for a pick-up line, I don't think so. He didn't say that Vanity was his soul mate, rather she was a lot like him "female version of himself". I have a dear friend that I feel is the male version of myself, meaning that we have a lot of the same ideologies, same thought processes, but he's not a soul mate.

Anullment is definitely gentler than divorce. Ever been divorced? It creates a lot of negative energy and negative outcomes. And I am not arguing with who is his "soul mate" because there is no argument to be had. Prince said it himself and I'll trust his words over conjecture.

Take care and have fun with your explorations! You seem to be finding what you want to find. I guess that is all that's important, right?

It's essentially the same pick up line, make into whatever you like. I don't why you keep using the word "conjecture"- there's not conjecture here. Sure we've disected lyrics and videos that might have some tie- negative & positive. But when we've brought up the possibility of Denise having been the love of his life we connect to things Prince ACTUALLY SAID- HIS OWN WORDS STRAIGHT OUT OF HIS MOUTH, in a recent concerts before his death- about Vanity/Denise. It's not about wanting to find anything, it's there. Peace, I'm outta here.

[Edited 5/31/16 20:41pm]

.

Thank you SunnyGirl. Empty Room, however, was written for a movie James L. Brooks "I'll Do Anything". So not sure how the connection from Empty Room, to The Holy River, to Denise came about.

.

As for mirrors, as spiritually aware as Prince is, have you ever cnnsidered that the mirrors were a reflection of vanity, as in a part of pride, as in a deadly sin? Much of what Prince has written over the years reflects more his spiritual teachings, and I would look to that before I would start thinking that the mirrors in his songs represented a person.

.

Water is associated with baptism, spiritual cleansing.

.

These are the things I see in Prince's music. But I suppose we all see what we want to see.

No probs. This is backgound for Empty Rooms - it has quite a unique history.

.

It was initially recorded on 4 Aug 1985 as a Studio recording that wasn’t released.
Prince then revisited the song mid-late March 1992 Studio re-recording again for movie ‘I’ll do Anything’ but it wasn’t used in the film and it wasn’t released.
Then in late 1994 a Video version was made (using 1985 recording)
The 1994 Video version was then shown over March 1995 on the UK tour only (3-30 Mar 1995) which coincides with Vanity getting married 26 March 1995. (In the video, he won't look at the mirror, he's very sad and I think part of him dies as he collapses)
.
The video hasn't been shown since March 1995.
No studio version of the track has been issued.
This seems odd as he's very fond of this song and it’s a great track.
.
He has performed it occasionally in live shows (2002, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2014) and he has recorded it in live performances (2002, 2011, 2014).
.

This video that was made in 1994 for Empty Rooms is the one that's interspersed in The Holy River video. That's why we were looking at it to understand the link.

.

My observations re The Holy River were that:

The lyrics to Holy River are very powerful because they clearly document what happened post Empty Room (which I'd assume is why the Empty Room's video is interspersed through it). In other words, what happened after Vanity married. On the surface, it looks like he self destructed with alcohol, futile casual sex, loneliness and he's forced to look at himself - he doesn't want many women he only wants one; finds God connection; and it ends with references to marriage. It would appear he's providing an update on his life - this is where I am now, these are the mistakes I've made, this is what I've learnt, this is how I've changed, these are my links with God/faith and now I'm on track with my life. Lots of water references - river, drowning, tears.

.

Your water references are very useful as it ties very well.

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I'm not sure if you saw the thread Prince & Vanity Were Talking Through Mirrors & Did Prince Get His Girl? This actually lists egs of his use of mirrors in his videos that we found and when he refers to be songs being written while he looked in the mirror. The examples on there run up to 2009.

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The spiritual aspect of his work is very important, I would agree.

endiadj said:

anullment is to legally erase a marriage, to pretend it never existed. tbh, i've always been pissed at prince for doing that to mayte because she has always seemed to adore him even to this day thru his toughest times and theirs. give me a divorce anyday over you never existed in my life.

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Prince may have termed it an "anullment" however, in order to get an anullment you must be able to show that consummation never occured. Of course, we know that is not the case since Prince and Mayte had a baby together.

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Per Mayte herself:

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5. Prince and Mayte split in 1998

Two years after tying the knot, Prince and Garcia separated. They formally divorced in 2000. "When I got divorced, it was another culture shock. It was going from this world I had been into since the age of 16 to literally standing on the streets of New York in kind of shock," she said in a VH1 Hollywood Exes clip.

In a 2015 interview, Mayte revealed that while she wasn't in love with her ex-husband, "I will always love him — he's a great guy."

benni said:

What The Ballad of Dorothy Parker was really about:

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Susan Rogers: Right. I hadn’t finished testing the audio wiring or anything; in other words I had just soldered the last connection and Prince said, “Let’s record.” He had been asleep and had this dream about a woman and a bathtub and a waitress and all that, he scribbled down all those lyrics very quickly and called it “The Ballad of Dorothy Parker.” I don’t know how aware he was of who Dorothy Parker actually was, but he knew the name, so it wasn’t the real historical Dorothy Parker; and it was inspired by Joni Mitchell, I remember him saying that. Anyway, he came running downstairs, we put in fresh tape and started recording. As always, he’s playing every instrument and I’m just panicking on the inside because something doesn’t sound right–it’s really dull, there’s no high end and I can’t wait for this song to be finished because I’ve got to check it out and see what’s going on. Of course the song is coming out really well and the whole time I’m thinking, ‘I wish he would just stop,’ (laughs) but that’s not going to happen. The whole time he hasn’t even said anything, hadn’t even commented on it and I know he hears it but he’s really happy because he likes this song. At the very end, he gave me my final instructions and he said, “There’s something about this console that doesn’t sound like the one at Sunset Sound, it’s really dull,” and then he goes upstairs and goes to bed. I’m thinking, ‘Hell yeah it’s dull, there’s no high end at all!’ (laughs) So he goes upstairs and goes to bed and then I finally had a chance to test the board and it turns out that it was working on only half the power, and one side of the bipolar supply had gone out, so it was just drawing half the current. But he conceived of the song in a dream so he didn’t mind that at all because it gave it this dreamy-like quality.

Thanks for sharing

benni said:

Vashtix said:

Prince is gone and we will never know some things BUT what I do know is his death was so close after Denise's death and I for one will always say that his soul/spirit could not be here without hers

That is what hooked me to this thread initially and that is what I believe

Videos,lyrics will never change what happened in the universe and that is not belittling anyone or anything else in his life but that is a fact.

Oh and his tribute in Melbourne . . . that speaks for itself too.

again not belittling anyone or anything just saying for me it sealed it. He appears to have had a connection that did not die to Denise that was deeper than I ever thought.

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He would have dedicated his concert to Mayte or Mani, had it been them that passed. These are women he was intimate with, loved, shared a part of his life with. Of course it effected him, as it would any one else. Yes, Denise's passing had an impact on our man, but so would the passing of any of the women he had fallen in love with. Denise had some serious health issues. Prince was battling with his own health issues. We're getting older. Life happens, and a part of life is death. Eventually, we are all going to follow along. It was merely coincidence the timing of their passing.

We have to agree to disagree because I do not believe it was coincidence

purplegirl00 said:

benni said:

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The "bad selves" was not meant in a bad way. As for a pick-up line, I don't think so. He didn't say that Vanity was his soul mate, rather she was a lot like him "female version of himself". I have a dear friend that I feel is the male version of myself, meaning that we have a lot of the same ideologies, same thought processes, but he's not a soul mate.

Anullment is definitely gentler than divorce. Ever been divorced? It creates a lot of negative energy and negative outcomes. And I am not arguing with who is his "soul mate" because there is no argument to be had. Prince said it himself and I'll trust his words over conjecture.

Take care and have fun with your explorations! You seem to be finding what you want to find. I guess that is all that's important, right?

It's essentially the same pick up line, make into whatever you like. I don't why you keep using the word "conjecture"- there's not conjecture here. Sure we've disected lyrics and videos that might have some tie- negative & positive. But when we've brought up the possibility of Denise having been the love of his life we connect to things Prince ACTUALLY SAID- HIS OWN WORDS STRAIGHT OUT OF HIS MOUTH, in a recent concerts before his death- about Vanity/Denise. It's not about wanting to find anything, it's there. Peace, I'm outta here.

[Edited 5/31/16 20:41pm]

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It is conjecture when you are analyzing the lyrics and trying to tie everything back to Denise. As for what Prince said, his own words straight out of his mouth, you dismiss what he said about Mayte as a "pick up line", but take what he said about Denise as gospel. You can't pick and chose what you accept from Prince's words. As for what he said in his recent concerts, he stated that he had lost someone dear to him. And he dedicated songs to her. The term "dear to us" does not imply a "love of a life time" to me. Unless there were other words spoken besides sharing certain memories. It sounded to me like he was merely reminiscing, remembering the good times, with fondness someone who had meant something to him in the past and that he was pained at her passing. Why try to make it into something more?

benni said:

Vashtix said:

benni said:

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He would have dedicated his concert to Mayte or Mani, had it been them that passed. These are women he was intimate with, loved, shared a part of his life with. Of course it effected him, as it would any one else. Yes, Denise's passing had an impact on our man, but so would the passing of any of the women he had fallen in love with. Denise had some serious health issues. Prince was battling with his own health issues. We're getting older. Life happens, and a part of life is death. Eventually, we are all going to follow along. It was merely coincidence the timing of their passing.

We have to agree to disagree because I do not believe it was coincidence

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And you are free to believe that, I simply disagree. Did he love Denise? Yes. However, Prince was a man who knew what he wanted and he usually got what he wanted. If he had wanted to continue the relationship with Denise, he would have moved mountains to make it happen. The fact he didn't says more to me than anything else. But again, you all can go ahead with exploring this and you'll believe what you want to believe. The fact remains, no one will ever truly know the full truth and everything is conjecture in regards to this, because the only person that can truly say what his intent was and the meanings of what he sang about, is no longer here to share that with us. Again, we'll each see what we want to see in his music. For me, I see him singing more about God and Spiritual Love, than I do any physical love. In fact, in many of his interviews he stated that many of his songs were not about sex, or the physical, but was about the spiritual. But even he knew people took from his music what they wanted to focus on and artist intent was never big on their experience of the songs.