cborgman said:

...perhaps if he were a woman, he'd feel differently.

cborgman said:

It's hilarious at how people can say my avatar is offensive yet NO ONE has stepped forward to tell me who is in my avie and what's offensive about it? Hmm? A model in lingerie...yeah, that's offensive. So since you chimed in for no apparent reason whatsoever, do YOU care to take a shot at who's the woman in my avatar, sunshine? I din't think so.

The arrogance of the org is always a great laugh for the day. People think they rule the world by being a member of a message board. Go figure.

StoneCrib said:

i am glad to.

it's degrading to women to see a woman in next to nothing posed in a manner of which her butt, breasts, and the near sight of her crotch is displayed for the plaesure of men, especially outside of a pronographic setting. so, unless that is you in the pic, 'sunshine', it's pretty sexist.

it offends me. and i'm not even a woman.

cborgman said:

The pompous and grandiose bullshit that gets posted here is amazing. You're here at a PRINCE SITE complaining about PRECEIVED OBSCENITY. So I guess when Prince sang of INCEST that never offended you? So I guess when Prince talks about masturbation that's not pornographic? Yet here you are, arrogant as hell, trying to tell grown people what's obscene and what's pornographic.

May I suggest going to a new site if my avatar offends you, especially since I've seen tons worse with all kinds of sexual setups. Don't even try it, you're grasping at straws JUST to keep the argument going and it's making you look foolish now.

StoneCrib said:

you are gonna tell me about arrogance? you made the comment about how annoyingly racist the org is, which is bullshit to begin with, and then comment about how 'no one even cares', so i pointed out the hypocrisy that several people are offended by the blatantly sexist and mysoganistic picture you selected as an avatar.

and best of all, you told a black man 'maybe if he were black, he would understand'

talk about foolish and arrogant...

but, yet again, i would love you to take you own advice - if the postson this site offend you, move your ass to another site.
so, once again, i will use your own

Heiress said:

Oh, it's YOUR turn huh? So tell me, what's offensive about my avatar and who is the person in it? The high horses here at the org are popular as ever aren't they? Especially considering how notorious PRINCE is for his womanizing. Oh, but I bet you're willing to overlook that for a few bars from him of "Irresittable Bitch" huh?

StoneCrib said:

just throwin your words back at you. it's kind of fun.

after all, i don't take myself so dern seriously as you do.

StoneCrib said:

just throwin your words back at you. it's kind of fun.

after all, i don't take myself so dern seriously as you do.

Heiress said:

Ok, granted.

Heiress said:

Can I take you seriously?


How about just take you then???

jerseykrs said:

i'd like to see you try.

cborgman said:

First of all, you're blatantly lying. Show me where I said the org was "annoyingly racist" - You cant. I never said the org was racist so stop spreading your filthy lies about and stop lying to try and make yourself look better after making a fool of yourself by trying to dictate what's obscene here at the org. If my avatar was obscene it wouldn't have been allowed.

"I'm not surprised to read immature comments like that, especially from the org, because there are some people who will never know what it's like to be the victim of racism so they truly don't care who they offend."

Now, I suggest you leave this issue alone because it seems you got your ass into someplace in which you had no business getting into to begin with and you just look foolish.

Heiress said:

Can I take you seriously?


How about just take you then???

(note the " & " denoting direct quote)

third, as you said earlier - "it's all about perspectives"
several people are offended by your avatar. if you don't want us dictating what is obscene, than don't dictate to us what is obscene.

simple as that.



foolish?

well, maybe.

not telling a black man he would understand if he were black foolish, though.

heartbeatocean said:

Alrighty then, I'll make an effort just for your lovely self.

(note the " & " denoting direct quote)

third, as you said earlier - "it's all about perspectives"
several people are offended by your avatar. if you don't want us dictating what is obscene, than don't dictate to us what is obscene.

simple as that.



foolish?

well, maybe.

not telling a black man he would understand if he were black foolish, though.



.
[Edited 4/4/06 9:53am]

cborgman said:

Please move this discussion here:

http://www.prince.org/msg/100/184063

An open forum for StoneCrib to enlighten us all and to play his evasive and insulting tactics.

This thread is too beautiful to be soiled any further.

heartbeatocean said:

Well, we see that you're highly talented at instigating, what other tricks can you do?

By the way - slamming avatar!

StoneCrib said:

Thanks! Please take it over here: http://www.prince.org/msg/100/184063
You've invited us to inquire about your avvie and I'm all ears.

cborgman said:

Nice back pedal, but I won't hod you to it. You made an error and we'll move beyond that.

Now, this "several people" - did you take some sort of Avatar survey? If my avatar was obscene it wouldn't have been approved. Unless you're going to once again dictate to the Mods as to tell them what's obscene and what isn't. Again, if you can't handle the images here, then leave. Simple as that. And that goes for ANYBODY here. I didn't bring up avatars, the insecure and ignorant ones here did. They have zero knowledge as to who it is in my avatar but I bet they wouldn't blink an eye if Prince had a scantily clad female in his video. It's hypocrisy at its best or ignorance at its worst. Overall I think it's people being petty because they have an issue with my stance so they'll try and find any little thing to poke at because they lack the ammunition to rightfully shoot my stance down.

As for me telling the Black man he'd think differently if he were black. I think it's even worse that the dude is Black and sees no issue with the racist images that a racist filmmaker put to screen. But I shouldn't be shocked because just being Black doesn't give you the knowledge about "being Black" but what's worse is when non-blacks try and tell Blacks how "being Black" should be, just like in this instance of Birth of a Nation - People try and tell me to "look past" the racism in it and glorify it for its cinematic genius. Bullshit. Only a fool thinks racism is aceptable as long as it's delivered in a "genius" way.

StoneCrib said:

please, i have seen about a year ago full frontal nudity in the avatars including one which was a vagina turned sideays with homer simpsons face grafted on to it. the mods don't generally dictate obscene or not.

if you don't want to change your avatar, don't. i'm not saying you should, i honestly don't care. but don't try and guilt people about liking a movie and dictate that is obscene to us if you get upset when people do the same to you. it's hypocritical, and that's one of the more offensive stances that people take.

and he didn't defend the racist tone of the movie, in fact, i believe he said how offensive it is. what he defended is the extremely innovative filmmaking technique that the director used, which pioneered film-making as it stands today. and i agree with him. i can seperate the two. birth of a nation is a very offensive movie in it's themes, story, and stereotype of black people. i wouldn't show that film to anyone who i was not fully confident was of sound mind enough to be able to understand how fundimentally wrong the movie is at it's core. but at the same time, i see it for the brilliant filmamking it is. much as, while being extremely offended by hitler and all he stood for, especailly since he aggresively slaughtered my people for being who they are, i can also say that he is one of the most gnius public speakers in recorded history. an evil genius, but a genius, none the less. i can seperate the elements and that's the way i am.

if you can not see them as seperate elements, more power to you. just don't try and condemn people who can.

i really appreciate what i can see in you as a politically infuriated black man trying to make a change in the world. we need more people who are aware of it and want to affect change in relation to it in this country. HOWEVER, you are going after some of the most liberal and progressive people (and not just racially - anti-sexist, and anti-homophobia as well as more) on the site, because you are reading way too far into stuff as a newbie to the site, you are not yet aware.

It's cool, Chris. I got this. (And this is the last energy I'll even give to this absurdity)...

StoneCrib...

You’ve been slightly cute up to this point, but this is getting old...

First, the more you run off at the mouth, the more I actually find you have something in common with a lot of other folk here on the org: None of us knows what in the hell you’re talking about! And what makes this so rich is that you’ve been throwing around accusations of pomp and arrongance, knowing no one here, while every part of your own persona – from your posts to your signature – exemplifies it! That’s golden.

Let’s review: This thread didn’t ask what works deserve a place in the AFI archives. It didn’t ask which works have bolstered the state of culture and humanity. It didn’t ask which made us feel warm and fuzzy or which deserve NAACP Image awards. It asked which American B&Ws we place among our personal favorites. I answered it, offering a personal reason why, and I’d do it again. You come out of left-field with some strange diatribe about how BOAN should be removed from the AFI archives and how you “don’t give a flying f***” what it accomplished cinematically …yada yada yada.

Um… So friggin’ what?

When you become the arbiter of personal taste, then your opinion about other’s opinions may matter. In the meantime, hint: If you hated Birth of a Nation[/i] sooooo much, keep it off of your list of personal favorites.

As it were, in my time, I’ve held office in any number of anti-racist organizations. I’ve been editor-in-chief of one of the better-known university-related Pan-African culture magazines in the country. I’ve been to four continents. Met a whole lotta people. Faced off with a whole lotta racists. And not a single person I’ve met clings to delusions of African Americans as some political block taking over post-Reconstruction American politics or soot-faced coons with glowing eyes and pink, platter lips who jump out of bushes and attack unassuming white women. They DO, however, roundly think of African American women as oversexualized whores who have nothing better to offer the world than their asses. …And, incidentally, they think of black men as belligerent, self-righteous loud-mouths who stir up shit unprovoked and take pride in spewing ignorance.

Among several other ludicrous things, your posts here seem to suggest that because one is white, one has less sympathy with the harm a movie like Birth of a Nation could do to a people. Moreover, it seems to suggest that amid such boundless harm – amid such ignorance by a ruling majority – we should somehow hide this monumental work, instead of absolutely acknowledging its stunning and artful execution and its detrimental effect on the human psyche at the time. That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

By the way, since you don’t seem to pick up context clues, I AM African American. Been one for 33 years as far as I know. I’m married to an amazing, gorgeous, self-respecting African American woman. And I’m the father of a child who, God willing, will one day grow to be one. So since you asked, hell yes, 1) It does offend me that given a world of choices – and since you fancy yourself an activist – you’d willfully present the org with a picture of Ki Toy Johnson’s ass on full display (as if it truly mattered which exploited model she is ) and 2) it would offend me if it were a female celebrity of any other race (perhaps moreso if it were Lucy Lui, as she’s shown more self-respect than that) Finally, it stuns me all the more that when called on it, you’d actually have the gaul to defend it as somehow culturally valuable or celebratory. That takes nerve, bruh -- and more than a low tolerance for bullshit.

D.W. Griffith’s depiction of black men showed them as primal creatures who subjectify women and are incapable of self-reproach. How exactly are you proving him wrong?

I can tell you this: In 2006, the kind of paradox you present, the kind of hypocrisy, the kind of tumultuousness – coming from a black man, no less -- is FAR more hurtful to black people than some dumb-ass dead and forgotten filmmaker or a movie that’s approaching 100 years old.

Don’t wanna take it from me? Ask any sister. Ask any human.

Fini.
[Edited 4/4/06 11:02am]

cborgman said:

And see here's the problem, as a Black man I have the RIGHT to be offended. Comparing racy avatars to RACISM is complete bullshit and you know it. The woman in my avatar offends who and why? Black women? White women? The lingerie companies? Again, this ridiculous "witch hunt" on my avatar is some of the weakest shit I've ever seen here and is SO juvenile that's it completely asenine to begin with.

Now calling ANY racist a GENIUS is just fucking ignorant. I'm sorry if some of you are "truly" trying to look past the scene where he shows recently-freed slaves eating fried chicken and watermelon in the courthouse with their feet all up on the back of the chairs and try and claim he's a GENIUS for his filmmaking techniques. Naw, I ain't buyin that shit and I never will. It's disgraceful and hateful and for ANYEONE to defend it makes me question their sanity and motives.

And miss me with this whole "liberal" crap here. I know liberals that don't like Blacks so that was a ridiculous statement to make.

Not sure if anyone mentioned...

Dr. Strangelove

first of all, your hypocrisy is yet again rearing it's ugly head. you lash out and accuse me of lying because i paraphrased you, yet you do the exact same thing to me. NOWHERE did i say the film's director was a genius, i said hitler was an evil genius. take your own advice.

second, no one is defending the story, the depictions of black folk in the movie, or the racist tone of the movie, quite the opposite. what is brilliant about the film is it's camera techniques and shots, which were extrememly innovative and founded much of modern filmmaking. i am sorry you can't tell the difference, but that's your problem, not mine.



And i know black people who think birth of a nation is a technically genius movie, does that render your statements ridiculous?
[Edited 4/4/06 11:38am]

cborgman said:

Where did I say that YOU said DW was a genius? Did I mention YOUR NAME? No. I was speaking in generalities, mainly to Lam's jocking of the man's work.

What I do find funny is that you think JUST because it was 100 HUNDRED YEARS AGO implies that it shouldn't bother any Black person of today. It sounds like that same old comment I constantly hear from ignorant people: "Slavery was a long time ago, it has no impact on today so let it rest."

But again, who am I disgracing in my avatar?

If it were Pam Anderson would you call her disgraceful?

Why is the Black woman in lingerie a DISGRACE? I'm curious to know your answer on this since you want to focus on this so much.

And like I said, those Black people can have their opinion, when have I said people can't have opinions? But just as they can have opinions I can have my opinion about THEIR opinion. Free speech, my friend. Deal with it or stop posting.

any woman of any race in that outfit and in that pose used as an avatar is degrading to women, period.

what makes it particularly annoying is you are going crazy about people enjoying the technical merits abotu a racist film, angry about how it degrades black people, yet you are degrading a black person as you rant about it.



take your own advice.