Lammastide said:

Title???

The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari

Nosferatu

heartbeatocean said:

One of my favorites as well.

StoneCrib said:

Definitely NOT my favorite b&w film. For those who haven't seen it, it's basically a celebration of the KKK chasing down black people on horses.

However, to say it should be removed from the AFI archives???? It would be extremely problematic if evidence of history were to be erased in such a way. Then people could deny such things (atrocities, holocaust, etc) ever happened. I agree with Anx, we need to be able to interrogate our past.

It's also the first movie to invent cross-cutting, the intercutting of two simultaneous scenes together. Considering that cinema is the most influential cultural currency we have today, there is value in preserving where it came from.

But maybe instead of judging, we should ask Lammastide, why is it one of your favorite movies? Dialogue is much more fruitful than censorship.

u2prnce said:

Shadow of a Doubt? that's a good one

How about Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator. Sorry, I couldn't pull a picture.
[Edited 4/1/06 19:38pm]

heartbeatocean said:

No, I never said ban the movie, I just said take it out of AFI's archive as one of the 100 greatest films ever made.

StoneCrib said:

I don't know what that's about. They only archive 100 "greatest films"? Keep it in the archives, but take away the distinction.

Smittyrock70 said:

Here ya go.

heartbeatocean said:

I'm NOT gonna defend Birth of a Nation in any way (and I've never seen anything more than clips of it) but the reason it's considered one of the greatest films of all time is that the director was very talented and used many revolutionary film techniques.

I think 'greatest' is kind of a catchall term which really means 'most important' here. The president of the U.S. at the time even came out publically against the movie. These are some of the reasons for its importance in film history. But yes, it is morally repugnant and misrepresents history in many ways to make the 'white' South seem more heroic.

Ironically, the director, D.W. Griffith later made a film called Intolerance. Never seen that one, though I'm sure it's not an apology for Birth of a Nation.

u2prnce said:

Yeah, we take the techniques for granted. But to be the first to invent cross-cutting and to basically define the language of narrative filmmaking used to this day, is no small feat. It's like Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will. You can't deny it's fantastic filmmaking, but there's a dilemma between morals and aesthetics.

Actually DJ Spooky did an experimental sound mix to this piece a few years ago. Wish I had seen it. Click here for his take on it: http://www.npr.org/templa...Id=4112682

A quick summary about Birth of a Nation's popularity at the time.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/c...ion_a.html

I Roman Holiday

heartbeatocean said:

The Golem, Germany, 1915. Released in the U.S.A. in 1920. Based on the ancient legend of a mystical clay robot who protected the Jews of medieval Prague, but then spiraled out of control. Fantastic stuff, and both literarily and cinematically a precursor to the Frankenstein story.

Here's four of my all time faves....so many more though.....

It's a Wonderful Life

Casablanca

12 Angry Men

Meet John Doe

A Streetcar Named Desire

On The Waterfront

Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf

....

I could go on forever

Sweeny79 said:

You're my favorite orger.....

Splendor In The Grass

jerseykrs said:

A Raisin In The Sun

Rebel Without A Cause

Why did I list Griffith's Birth of a Nation? Well...

I didn't list it because I thought it was fun or comfortable. The movie's historical bias is absolutely revolting. BUT, as art goes, that movie changed the entire paradigm of the motion picture. I'll defer to heartbeocean's link to get into details, but that film changed everything! It showed the world, perhaps for the first time, the immense power that cinema can have not only in the movie-going world, but over the psyche of its audiences and in the overarching culture altogether.

And thanks, heartbeatocean for reminding us of Riefenstahl's later and terrifying Triumph of the Will, which I'd also place among my favorites, in the same vein.

...As for Intolerance, also by Griffith: No, it definitely wasn't an apology for BOAN. In fact, as I recall, it made no reference to the American Negro at all, which is amazingly ironic given the human message of the film. Again, though, the sheer cinematic innovation of that film -- and it's enormous scale (Just look at how HUGE Griffith's images of ancient Babylon are!! And remember this was in 1916!!) -- cements its place in world cinematic history, let alone my personal appreciation.

Frankenstein

Another really good American B&W...

SHANNA said:

Lammastide said:

Perhaps if you yourself were African-American you'd feel differently. The film is an atrocity and should NEVER be mentioned as one of the top 100s. Never. I could give a flying fuck at how it changed cinema because it also help add to the already negative shaping of the mindset of some Americans at how they perceive Blacks. No amount of cinema prowess could wipe away what that film did to Blacks in the U.S. at that time. None.

StoneCrib said:

Um... Oh, nevermind.

As Xx always says, agree to disagree.

But, incidentally, I do marvel at the wonders your avatar must be doing for the image of black women.
[Edited 4/2/06 10:47am]

Lammastide said:

Dracula

SHANNA said:

Keep 'em coming, girl!!

Lammastide said:

What's wrong with my avatar? Am I calling her a ho or a bitch? Do you find a beautiful woman in lingerie offensive or is she offensive to YOU just because she's Black? Do you even know who the woman is? Do you even know why she's dressed like that? Better yet, if it were Pam Anderson would you think it was offensive? How about Lucy Liu? What about J-Lo?

Perspectives, my friend, this is all about perspective.