PatrickS77 said:

1.) We are not friends

2.) Same, same. Michael was offered the role of Edgar Allan Poe, because Michael didn't look black at that time. Fiennes was offered to play Michael because in '01 Michael didn't look black.

[Edited 1/31/16 15:53pm]

that's cool with me

dont' get mad at me that we been subjected to a false image for the past 28 years

I just wanted you to admit why MIchael was offered the Edgar Allan Poe without me having to say it

the false image led to both circumstances

and its' no coincidence this was announced a week and a half before the world gets to see how MJ's black audience from his past set the stage for him to achieve the global success he did

[Edited 1/31/16 16:11pm]

^^Whatever.

In view of the changes made to his appearance,not just skin but facial features as well, it would take a really light-skin black person to play him post 1987. Frankly I think you would find far more whites and Asians that resemble him than Blacks.

Even if someone Asian or Hispanic played him, it would still be a WTF from most, but it would make more sense than someone caucasian playing him, though I still feel there would be a debate about it. If there's a divide already in the discussion, it just may have to do with interpreting the situation differently, and why visible minorities in the north american context may see it differently from someone in europe or overseas, cause of what's been done historically.

I remember a little movie in the late 60's called The Party. Peter Sellers played an east Indian man and used heavy brown makeup with a convincing accent to play his role which was ironically spoofing racist Hollywood. Now tell me, was he very talented and pulled it off well, or was it a mockery and should have been given to an indian actor cause of the skin tone? Be honest in your answer and think about it. It sounds to me like it's the same thing happening, except mj had vitiligo so it's more complex.

[Edited 2/1/16 9:25am]

I don't remember that track being on the Jacksons Live CD anyways. I could be wrong though.

Why won't the Jackson estate release the Triump tour with The Jacksons on dvd? Which is argubly his best tour..

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Why won't the Jackson estate release the Triump tour with The Jacksons on dvd? Which is argubly his best tour..

there's no question the Triumph Tour was Michael Jackson's best live stage concert series, and was the brothers best concert series also

The Destiny Tour, they don't mind the world seeing that one exclusively, even the Off The Wall tour to an extent

but that Triumph Tour is the hidden gem of the entertainment world, and the world who has followed the promotion of this documentary can tell by intuition its the hidden gem, because the world of the past 28 years hasn't seen the real MIchael Jackson, and that's what there's so much anticipation for this

the brothers know this too, but they are more than likely gonna hold on to it because it's the last true remaining memory of who their brother was before opportunists w/in the industry asked him to move beyond who he was meant to be......

the last remnant

and I can see the comments now after this documentary airs when that concert footage is shown......it's gonna be like "WAS THAT MICHAEL JACKSON, WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED"......it's gonna be allot of that

Scorp said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Why won't the Jackson estate release the Triump tour with The Jacksons on dvd? Which is argubly his best tour..

there's no question the Triumph Tour was Michael Jackson's best live stage concert series, and was the brothers best concert series also

The Destiny Tour, they don't mind the world seeing that one exclusively, even the Off The Wall tour to an extent

but that Triumph Tour is the hidden gem of the entertainment world, and the world who has followed the promotion of this documentary can tell by intuition its the hidden gem, because the world of the past 28 years hasn't seen the real MIchael Jackson, and that's what there's so much anticipation for this

the brothers know this too, but they are more than likely gonna hold on to it because it's the last true remaining memory of who their brother was before opportunists w/in the industry asked him to move beyond who he was meant to be......

the last remnant

and I can see the comments now after this documentary airs when that concert footage is shown......it's gonna be like "WAS THAT MICHAEL JACKSON, WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED"......it's gonna be allot of that

I thought The Triump tour & The Off The Wall tour was one in the same? I don't remember the Off The Wall tour..

[Edited 2/1/16 18:18pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Scorp said:

there's no question the Triumph Tour was Michael Jackson's best live stage concert series, and was the brothers best concert series also

The Destiny Tour, they don't mind the world seeing that one exclusively, even the Off The Wall tour to an extent

but that Triumph Tour is the hidden gem of the entertainment world, and the world who has followed the promotion of this documentary can tell by intuition its the hidden gem, because the world of the past 28 years hasn't seen the real MIchael Jackson, and that's what there's so much anticipation for this

the brothers know this too, but they are more than likely gonna hold on to it because it's the last true remaining memory of who their brother was before opportunists w/in the industry asked him to move beyond who he was meant to be......

the last remnant

and I can see the comments now after this documentary airs when that concert footage is shown......it's gonna be like "WAS THAT MICHAEL JACKSON, WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED"......it's gonna be allot of that

I thought The Triump tour & The Off The Wall tour was one in the same? I don't remember the Off The Wall tour..

[Edited 2/1/16 18:18pm]

The Triumph Tour was it's own seperate show throughout 1981 ins support of the group's Triumph album and Off The Wall, starting out around that summer

The Off The Wall tour occured shortly after the album release of 1979 that ran through 1980, it was an extension/revamping of the Destiny Tour

[Edited 2/1/16 18:43pm]

Scorp said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I thought The Triump tour & The Off The Wall tour was one in the same? I don't remember the Off The Wall tour..

[Edited 2/1/16 18:18pm]

The Triumph Tour was it's own seperate show throughout 1981 ins support of the group's Triumph album and Off The Wall, staring out around that summer

The Off The Wall tour occured shortly after the album release of 1979 that ran through 1980, it was an extension/revamping of the Destiny Tour

[Edited 2/1/16 18:31pm]

[Edited 2/1/16 18:33pm]

Oh ok! I do remember The Triump Tour vividly. It was the most talked about during that time. I wish I would have went. Was his brothers part of The Off The Wall tour? I don't remember that at all. I remember The Destiny tour though.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Scorp said:

The Triumph Tour was it's own seperate show throughout 1981 ins support of the group's Triumph album and Off The Wall, staring out around that summer

The Off The Wall tour occured shortly after the album release of 1979 that ran through 1980, it was an extension/revamping of the Destiny Tour

[Edited 2/1/16 18:31pm]

[Edited 2/1/16 18:33pm]

Oh ok! I do remember The Triump Tour vividly. It was the most talked about during that time. I wish I would have went. Was his brothers part of The Off The Wall tour? I don't remember that at all. I remember The Destiny tour though.

yes, all his tours leading to the release of his Bad album were all performed by all the brothers

I do believe the Victory Tour should have been Michael's to perform as a solo artist rather than all the brothers together

Scorp said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Oh ok! I do remember The Triump Tour vividly. It was the most talked about during that time. I wish I would have went. Was his brothers part of The Off The Wall tour? I don't remember that at all. I remember The Destiny tour though.

yes, all his tours leading to the release of his Bad album were all performed by all the brothers

I do believe the Victory Tour should have been Michael's to perform as a solo artist rather than all the brothers together

I believe he did that tour for his Mother. But deep down he wanted to be by himself. Everything happens when it's suppose to happen. Which led to his leaving this earth before the O2 Arena dates happened. It just wasn't suppose to be...

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Scorp said:

yes, all his tours leading to the release of his Bad album were all performed by all the brothers

I do believe the Victory Tour should have been Michael's to perform as a solo artist rather than all the brothers together

I believe he did that tour for his Mother. But deep down he wanted to be by himself. Everything happens when it's suppose to happen. Which led to his leaving this earth before the O2 Arena dates happened. It just wasn't suppose to be...

that 02 Concert series.......it never should have been scheduled.....I never thought for one second that was going to jump off...there was no entertainment value left by then

alphastreet said:

Even if someone Asian or Hispanic played him, it would still be a WTF from most, but it would make more sense than someone caucasian playing him, though I still feel there would be a debate about it. If there's a divide already in the discussion, it just may have to do with interpreting the situation differently, and why visible minorities in the north american context may see it differently from someone in europe or overseas, cause of what's been done historically.

I remember a little movie in the late 60's called The Party. Peter Sellers played an east Indian man and used heavy brown makeup with a convincing accent to play his role which was ironically spoofing racist Hollywood. Now tell me, was he very talented and pulled it off well, or was it a mockery and should have been given to an indian actor cause of the skin tone? Be honest in your answer and think about it. It sounds to me like it's the same thing happening, except mj had vitiligo so it's more complex.

[Edited 2/1/16 9:25am]

I hear what you are saying alphastreet. I remember there was a similar issue with white actors playing the lead in "Othello." The film with Sir Laurence Olivier comes to mind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othello_%281965_film%29

In the case you mentioned above, since they are no shortage of Indian actors, the roll should be given to an Indian actor. The same is true for Othello. That role should be filed by black actors.

Film has a long history of racial stereotyping and limited opportunity to non-whites. Another example is the TV show Kung-Fu, whose lead went to David Carradine when Bruce Lee should have gotten the part. The producers felt America wasn't ready for an Asian to play an Asian. Bullocks!

Now the problem with MJ is..can you think of one Black actor who looks like him post 1987 or even more post 1991?And beyond the skin color is the fact that MJ altered his features so much. The only celebrity who is identified as black and that light-skined I can think of is Prince..and we all know Prince will NEVA (never) play MJ in a film.

[Edited 2/4/16 5:54am]

DonRants said:

DonRants said:

alphastreet said:

Even if someone Asian or Hispanic played him, it would still be a WTF from most, but it would make more sense than someone caucasian playing him, though I still feel there would be a debate about it. If there's a divide already in the discussion, it just may have to do with interpreting the situation differently, and why visible minorities in the north american context may see it differently from someone in europe or overseas, cause of what's been done historically.

I remember a little movie in the late 60's called The Party. Peter Sellers played an east Indian man and used heavy brown makeup with a convincing accent to play his role which was ironically spoofing racist Hollywood. Now tell me, was he very talented and pulled it off well, or was it a mockery and should have been given to an indian actor cause of the skin tone? Be honest in your answer and think about it. It sounds to me like it's the same thing happening, except mj had vitiligo so it's more complex.

[Edited 2/1/16 9:25am]

I hear what you are saying alphastreet. I remember there was a similar issue with white actors playing the lead in "Othello." The film with Sir Laurence Olivier comes to mind

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othello_%281965_film%29

In the case you mentioned above, since they are no shortage of Indian actors, the roll should be given to an Indian actor. The same is true for Othello. That role should be filed by black actors.

Film has a long history of racial stereotyping and limited opportunity to non-whites. Another example is the TV show Kung-Fu, whose lead went to David Carradine when Bruce Lee should have gotten the part. The producers felt America wasn't read for an Asian to play an Asian. Bullocks!

Now the problem with MJ is..can you think of one Black actor who looks like him post 1987 or even more post 1991?And beyond the skin color is the fact that MJ altered his features so much. The only celebrity who is identified as black and that light-skined I can think of is Prince..and we all know Prince will NEVA (never) play MJ in a film.

Exactly. Bollywood is the biggest film making industry in the world and that was true even in those days. There was a few Asians living in the western world too and I'm sure there had to be some that could act or involved in theatre. On one hand doing the role would be seen as a sellout move, but on the other, it would have been a satirical take on making fun of racist Hollywood. I also thought of the Shakespeare example. Men would play women, and they would use blackface and it was socially acceptable.

Scorp, the distance might be good for you and one day you'll be able to appreciate his authenticity without all the pain and letting controversy distract you once again. I'm guessing the days you went to the Triumph tour is what you're grieving more than anything that came after that took you further and further away from those days. Not just grieving mj of that time, but possibly parts of your youth.

[Edited 2/2/16 6:51am]

Scorp said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I believe he did that tour for his Mother. But deep down he wanted to be by himself. Everything happens when it's suppose to happen. Which led to his leaving this earth before the O2 Arena dates happened. It just wasn't suppose to be...

that 02 Concert series.......it never should have been scheduled.....I never thought for one second that was going to jump off...there was no entertainment value left by then

I have no futher comment..

alphastreet said:

I wasn't talking about depression, I meant something along the lines of what you internalized for years, like what you're saying. You've already made it clear you never had a problem with his releases once and it's always inspired you. I'm talking about the emotional power you're giving your fandom cause of the hurt that came with it. As mentioned, distance sounds like a great idea.

[Edited 2/2/16 8:37am]

Scorp said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I believe he did that tour for his Mother. But deep down he wanted to be by himself. Everything happens when it's suppose to happen. Which led to his leaving this earth before the O2 Arena dates happened. It just wasn't suppose to be...

that 02 Concert series.......it never should have been scheduled.....I never thought for one second that was going to jump off...there was no entertainment value left by then

Oh here we go again... Well. Yes. There was entertainment value and yes, it should have been scheduled. The only thing that shouldn't have happened is coming across and trusting a hack doctor.

[Edited 2/2/16 8:41am]

breakdown2k14 said:

alphastreet said:

I wasn't talking about depression, I meant something along the lines of what you internalized for years, like what you're saying. You've already made it clear you never had a problem with his releases once and it's always inspired you. I'm talking about the emotional power you're giving your fandom cause of the hurt that came with it. As mentioned, distance sounds like a great idea.

[Edited 2/2/16 8:37am]

If they just showed the Triumph Tour in its entirety w/out all the glitches, we wouldn't need a documentary, that show would pull more ratings than Motown 25 did, that's how much of a hidden gem this is.......

only reason I'm watching this thing tomorrow is for the concert footage

Quincy Jones should be a part of this.....but he's caught so much hate and flack from fans over the past 6-7 years, he is backing away........

Why would Quincy Jones get hate? He's the one responsible for making MJ a superstar..

Scorp said:

alphastreet said:

I wasn't talking about depression, I meant something along the lines of what you internalized for years, like what you're saying. You've already made it clear you never had a problem with his releases once and it's always inspired you. I'm talking about the emotional power you're giving your fandom cause of the hurt that came with it. As mentioned, distance sounds like a great idea.

[Edited 2/2/16 8:37am]

If they just showed the Triumph Tour in its entirety w/out all the glitches, we wouldn't need a documentary, that show would pull more ratings than Motown 25 did, that's how much of a hidden gem this is.......

only reason I'm watching this thing tomorrow is for the concert footage

Quincy Jones should be a part of this.....but he's caught so much hate and flack from fans over the past 6-7 years, he is backing away........

I highly doubt he's backing away cause of a small minority of online fans, his health has been on the decline and he's not getting any younger. If he had to detach a little bit from his professional life, I don't blame him, though I admit I was really disappointed to hear he's not involved too. He and mj were the heart and soul of Off The Wall era.

I totally believe you that it would get a lot of ratings if it were the concert, it was huge when the jacksons reunited onstage in 2001, imagine if that was footage from 20 years prior to that.

[Edited 2/4/16 7:36am]