Cinny said:

MickyDolenz said:

Wasn't Nelly doing this 15 years ago and Bone Thugs N Harmony & MC Smooth before him in the 1990s? Maybe Nate Dogg could be considered singalong rap too. He was around in the 1990s.

I am telling you, from Force MCs (MDs) to DJ Hollywood, rap singing has been around since the beginning of the genre. That was how I tried to understand Nelly.

Hey Cinny, did you see the TV One "Unsung" episode about Force MD's? It was pretty good!

SeventeenDayze said:

Cinny said:

I am telling you, from Force MCs (MDs) to DJ Hollywood, rap singing has been around since the beginning of the genre. That was how I tried to understand Nelly.

Hey Cinny, did you see the TV One "Unsung" episode about Force MD's? It was pretty good!

No, I wish I could get TVONE! I never found it online.

Cinny said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Hey Cinny, did you see the TV One "Unsung" episode about Force MD's? It was pretty good!

No, I wish I could get TVONE! I never found it online.

It was pretty cool If you search around the darkest corners of Youtube you might be able to find it

SeventeenDayze said:

Musicslave said:

-

And that's more than half the battle these days.

Well, I went to a comedy show recently and Cedric the Entertainer came out to a Fetty Wap song and even cracked a few jokes about Fetty's "songs".

True . . . point is, young audiences drive music tastes and thus radio presence across demographics.

namepeace I see what you're saying and I agree that this is the mentality - is it working?? Is this why all these great new artists are selling millions of albums and breaking all the records?

.

I think the line is a fallacy that is dangerous and has really worked against productivity, success, and pride in the artistry.

namepeace said:

True . . . point is, young audiences drive music tastes and thus radio presence across demographics.

Goes all the way back to the flapper era when jazz became popular. It was young adults & teens who primarily made the popularity of Martin & Lewis, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Frankie Avalon, The Beatles, KISS, The Monkees, Jackson 5, NKOTB, etc. It wasn't really older people as they have never been the primary focus of Top 40 radio.

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

True . . . point is, young audiences drive music tastes and thus radio presence across demographics.

Goes all the way back to the flapper era when jazz became popular. It was young adults & teens who primarily made the popularity of Martin & Lewis, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Frankie Avalon, The Beatles, KISS, The Monkees, Jackson 5, NKOTB, etc. It wasn't really older people as they have never been the primary focus of Top 40 radio.

Yep! The good thing about music is that it changes....the bad thing about music is that it changes

JKOOLMUSIC said:

namepeace I see what you're saying and I agree that this is the mentality - is it working?? Is this why all these great new artists are selling millions of albums and breaking all the records?

You can look at which acts get the most Youtube views & comments like Psy, Rihanna, Taylor Swift, etc, and most are youth driven. Youtube is the new 45 single. In some cases, people upload the entire album on Youtube, which might be good for obscure and out of print records, but does not help the sales of new albums. Labels also now often post all of the songs from new albums on Youtube, either as lyric videos or under the acts 'topic' channel and the topic videos usually have clearer sound quality than the fans videos. You can look at it as many times as you want without buying something. Videos from Youtube, Dailymotion, Vimeo, etc. can be downloaded or converted to MP3s.

JKOOLMUSIC said:

For the record, I hate all these mainstream records about drugs, dealing or consuming. It is genocide on our youth. Hopefully, it is mostly escapism for otherwise clean, non-users.

Cinny and MickyDolenz I agree with your statements and examples! Its a strange paradigm that voyeuristic "luxury" mentality in the songs where you know many of those folks spewing the nonsense can't afford that stuff and do it for attention or because everyone else has been.

.

Motown that line was absolutely snark . Its like a race to the bottom almost, and the excuse is "oh well people download now". As though that justifies inferior excuses for not selling or pioneering creative endeavors. The irony is that the drug use/promotion is almost the only remaining human or relateable element, besides "love". Most acts these days are very cartoon/gimmick and forced.

MickyDolenz said:

JKOOLMUSIC said:

namepeace I see what you're saying and I agree that this is the mentality - is it working?? Is this why all these great new artists are selling millions of albums and breaking all the records?

You can look at which acts get the most Youtube views & comments like Psy, Rihanna, Taylor Swift, etc, and most are youth driven. Youtube is the new 45 single. In some cases, people upload the entire album on Youtube, which might be good for obscure and out of print records, but does not help the sales of new albums. Labels also now often post all of the songs from new albums on Youtube, either as lyric videos or under the acts 'topic' channel and the topic videos usually have clearer sound quality than the fans videos. You can look at it as many times as you want without buying something. Videos from Youtube, Dailymotion, Vimeo, etc. can be downloaded or converted to MP3s.

Have you guys ever pondered something...unless these record labels have 12-year-olds in the boardroom and production studios, the "older" people are the ones making the music for the younger ones but the "older" set aren't the target audience for the music....Strange isn't it?

SeventeenDayze said:

Have you guys ever pondered something...unless these record labels have 12-year-olds in the boardroom and production studios, the "older" people are the ones making the music for the younger ones but the "older" set aren't the target audience for the music....Strange isn't it?

Well, most of the acts who make dance music don't dance and many of the acts who make country music came from the city. Advertisers who buy radio/TV time want the younger market who are more likely to spend money on their products and not the Murder She Wrote/Matlock audience. Younger people generally spend more time on the internet too.

Cinny said:

For the record, I hate all these mainstream records about drugs, dealing or consuming. It is genocide on our youth. Hopefully, it is mostly escapism for otherwise clean, non-users.

People have been using drugs for centuries. It wasn't invented by the entertainment industry. I don't get this idea that music is supposed to be about the performers actual life, but don't say the same thing about books, movies, & TV.

MickyDolenz said:

Cinny said:

For the record, I hate all these mainstream records about drugs, dealing or consuming. It is genocide on our youth. Hopefully, it is mostly escapism for otherwise clean, non-users.

People have been using drugs for centuries. It wasn't invented by the entertainment industry. I don't get this idea that music is supposed to be about the performers actual life, but don't say the same thing about books, movies, & TV.

I know but at least the entertainers on drugs before made interesting songs out of their experiences and observations... these days it's the content of the song.

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Have you guys ever pondered something...unless these record labels have 12-year-olds in the boardroom and production studios, the "older" people are the ones making the music for the younger ones but the "older" set aren't the target audience for the music....Strange isn't it?

Well, most of the acts who make dance music don't dance and many of the acts who make country music came from the city. Advertisers who buy radio/TV time want the younger market who are more likely to spend money on their products and not the Murder She Wrote/Matlock audience. Younger people generally spend more time on the internet too.

Oh, that's the point I was making.....the people who aren't the target audience are the ones involved with making the music that's for the target audience

Keep seeing him in passing through streaming sites, that's about it, took me a minute to figure out what was wrong with his eyes, so he caught my attention for at least that long.

JKOOLMUSIC said:

Cinny said:

I know but at least the entertainers on drugs before made interesting songs out of their experiences and observations... these days it's the content of the song.

Like this?

Trap Queen is the Ignition of the 10's. Hipsters will be dancing to it in 10 years quote me on this.

God, I could ask this exact same question about so many so called "celebrities" of today, too many to name.

[Edited 10/3/15 19:47pm]

Gunsnhalen said:

Trap Queen is the Ignition of the 10's. Hipsters will be dancing to it in 10 years quote me on this.

Yeah you're probably right

JKOOLMUSIC said:

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

True . . . point is, young audiences drive music tastes and thus radio presence across demographics.

Goes all the way back to the flapper era when jazz became popular. It was young adults & teens who primarily made the popularity of Martin & Lewis, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Frankie Avalon, The Beatles, KISS, The Monkees, Jackson 5, NKOTB, etc. It wasn't really older people as they have never been the primary focus of Top 40 radio.

I agree. JAlways has been, always will be the case.

JKOOLMUSIC said:

namepeace I see what you're saying and I agree that this is the mentality - is it working?? Is this why all these great new artists are selling millions of albums and breaking all the records?

.

I think the line is a fallacy that is dangerous and has really worked against productivity, success, and pride in the artistry.

new artists aren't stacking platinum plaques because the economics of music has changed. But not the strategy of selling music. Popular music always skews young.

I'm not so sure that it poses a great threat to music overall. Quality acts are making quality music and while there are fewer innovative artists to sell and succeed in the meanstream, the Digital Age has given those artists more outlets than they used to have to make and sell their music.

SeventeenDayze said:

TraSoul82 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Um, I think Bone Thugs were in a league of their own as they sometimes rapped and then sometimes sang but they never "rap-sung" if that makes sense

This is highly inaccurate. Crossroads, their biggest song, was "rap-sung" as was a large portion of their catalog. "Harmony" was a part of the name for a reason. As for the topic, "Hip-pop" has gained traction under the guise of what hip hop used to be. Fans literally defend these guys by saying "at least he feedin' his family." They know the music is bad, but they're stuck on it somehow. "He got swag, doe...."

I think I probably wasn't clear on what I meant....it's hard to describe but it seems that Fetty Wap does more "yodeling" than anything. Then, he mixes in a few rhymes here and there.....but yes of course I know what Bone Thugs and Harmony is all about the harmony. I dunno, sometimes it's hard to describe the subtle differences between the two groups.

namepeace said:

JKOOLMUSIC said:

namepeace I see what you're saying and I agree that this is the mentality - is it working?? Is this why all these great new artists are selling millions of albums and breaking all the records?

.

I think the line is a fallacy that is dangerous and has really worked against productivity, success, and pride in the artistry.

new artists aren't stacking platinum plaques because the economics of music has changed. But not the strategy of selling music. Popular music always skews young.

I'm not so sure that it poses a great threat to music overall. Quality acts are making quality music and while there are fewer innovative artists to sell and succeed in the meanstream, the Digital Age has given those artists more outlets than they used to have to make and sell their music.

.

Thats the clincher. For almost a decade now its been to follow suit, complain about "how it is", and eulogize, not innovate or do something different. Is it working? I don't think it is at all. And I think people like... may have been the dilemma all along, thinking they were something incredibly special when the reality was the times allowed the strategy to work. Take away the strategy and there is no brilliance, just weird guys sing-rapping into computers over bicycle spoke rhythms.