VoicesCarry said:

duccichucka said:

You could argue that Janet Jackson was simply copying Madonna; and that any JJ copycat is

really building off of what Madonna did first.

Another thing Madonna did first was reinvention. But one could argue that instead of Madonna

and JJ being inventive, they actually continued to morph into new personas because they did

not know who they really were. For example, Michael Jackson knew who he was, therefore, his

persona hardly went through the many changes that Janet Jackson did.

I think there is some patriarchy underneath this, however. Men get to be who they want to be.

Women get to be who men want them to be. I could be overthinking this. . .

Madonna didn't do reinvention first - they actually did it simultaneously. Control was a significant evolution in both sound and image from Janet's first two albums.

Shawy89 said:

LaToya Jackson is better than Janet. Hell, she's even better than Michael.

x infinity

Qazz said:

I'm dying at the suggestion that she has one of the best discographies. She has 2 or so good albums, another 2 or so that were solid or "OK"... and that's about it. Real talk, half of Janet's discography flopped.

Utter bullshit that basically destroyed what little credibility you had in the first place and nullifies the rest of your insane post. Half of her total discography flopped? What planet are you living on? As I stated earlier, of her 9 studio albums, 2 (the first 2) were lackluster, but all of her subsequent albums with the exception of DISCIPLINE are platinum/multi-platinum affairs, and they are ALL #1 albums with the exception of DJ and 20 YO, which debuted at #2. Only 2 good albums? Real talk? More like talk coming straight from your ass. CONTROL, RN, janet., and TVR are widely regarded as the best of her output by critics and fans alike, so that pretty much makes your opinion worth what you paid to post on this site. You out of all the trolls in this thread seem to have a particular disdain for this woman. There's a bitterness to the tone of your posts that's actually a bit disturbing.

[Edited 8/5/14 17:16pm]

whitechocolatebrotha said:

Sweet Janet. Well...here's MY take:

1. "Control" was an R&B masterpiece as far as marketing, production values and overall sound go. It introduced new sounds and catered to a bubblegummy pallate that wasn't afraid to "throw down."

2. "Rhythm Nation" built itself upon "Control's" example, but pushed the envelope even further by using a more "socially empowered" vehicle to drive its points home, however, it really wasn't THAT political nor empowering. It merely turned the volume up a bit more.

3. "Janet." is the one that started her new exploration of sexuality and which began those terrible interludes that got even worse over time with each subsequent release.

4. "Velvet Rope," was more of a "Control Part Two" for me and it presented eloquently with its darker hues. It had SOME elements of "Rhythm Nation."

5. "All For You" was joyous until the second single and that's what killed the album's life. "Son Of A Gun" should NEVER have even been considered for single release!!! And Carly SIMON?...WTF is SHE doin' up in that MIX?! The sample worked, but the lyrics bombed all around. Again, gems scattered throughout, but this was a major bid for a more "Pop-realized" album.

6. "Damita Jo," like "20 Y.O." did itself in with its ridiculous title alone, especially the latter, however both boast SOME good music. It's too bad that the titles killed what could have been excellent releases. The lead single on the former album was NOT a very good choice and said album from which it was culled couldn't help its own downward spiral. The only reason "Call On Me" was so successful was that it featured a hot, at that time, rapper (Nelly.) Otherwise, weak song from an even weaker album.

6. "Disclipline" tried, but that sexual overtone coupled with a sado-masochistic, photographic overtone didn't help it to explode. Again, some hidden gems throughout, but on the whole, weak.

Leave the "sex" to Madonna, as only she can really work it to the point that it's credible and successful.

7 & 8: I saved the two PRE-"Control" albums for last where they were merely developmental in her artistry but lacked cohesion and theme. They are what they are. Every artist starts somewhere. Both eponymously and sophmorically, her producers tested the waters for what was to come and literally gave her an image/sound makeover, which, at that time, was heroic and commendable. "Janet Jackson" and "Dream Street" were the "bubblegum" that STUCK on "Control."

Was she good? Yes. Very, but again, "good" is a personal opinion. Janet Jackson is a PRODUCER'S artist. Without the "right" producers, the "right" result for Miss Jackson is fully dependent upon the trend at the given time and the producers' abilties to rope said trends in coupled with her (Jackson's) ability to let her image speak for that which is being represented muscially. I wouldn't say that she "wasn't good." I'd say that there are different stokes 4 different folks and that her favor came into play via the preferences of a vast majority. She was iconic for a time. Of course, being a Jackson factors in too. Thin, weak voice with the right producers/material determines her impact/success within an everchanging, ever-Autotuned, ever-talentless (for the most part) industry.

[Edited 8/5/14 13:34pm]

Actually, SOMEONE TO CALL MY LOVER was AFY's second single. SOAG was the third. COME ON GET UP was supposed to be the fourth, but Virgin fucked it up. As for TVR being Control pt. 2...

so, according 2 J-stans' Gospels, Janet created everything that is in 6 days and on the 7th day everyone was copying her

go2theMax said:

so, according 2 J-stans' Gospels, Janet created everything that is in 6 days and on the 7th day everyone was copying her

If you say so

thedoorkeeper said:

Do you think Janet Jackson is jealous of Beyonce?

I mean Beyonce is on top of the world and Janet

has one foot in the rock and roll oldies tour. How

can she not be jealous right?

if Janet really assess the situation, then no. Janet had her time in the '80s and '90s, now the public has new heroes. this is a generational change and this process will be infinite.

Beyonce sings obviously much better and looks better too, IMHO, but her music is weaker. none of her album can not compete with RN, for example.

I hardly ever become a fan of Janet, because I believe that 90% of the population of the planet earth can sing better than she, having at least some vocal training, but some of her songs have more opportunities to be timeless and remain iconic through 100 years than any track of Beyonce.

SeventeenDayze said:

midnightmover said:

What planet are you living on? MJ spent the last decade of his life doing next to nothing. I notice even his fans who argued with me at the time are conceding this now. When they tried to find new material to release after his death, they had to go back years to find stuff and the more recent songs were all written by other people. They were so desperate they even resorted to using fake tracks and passing them off as Michael, lol.

The This Is It tour (which never happened) was the final proof. I said at the time that he was forced into it by his massive debts and that has been confirmed. I said at the time there would be no new ideas in the show and I was proven right. I said at the time he was in no state to be touring and that has also been confirmed. Just read Kenny Ortega's horrifying email from a few days before his death (please don't bother replying if you can't address that). There's no doubt about it. If not for that tour he would still be alive today.

As for Janet I never said she couldn't tour. Read my post again. I said her "days at the top were over" and that also has been proven right. Her last real hit was 13 years ago. A decade ago some of her fans didn't realize her heyday was over. I did and said so. I was right. They were wrong.

[Edited 8/5/14 4:11am]

Despite what was outright sabotage by Sony, the Invincible album did really well. I think a lot of people liked the album and it had solid tracks on there. To me, it seems like you're just looking for any old reason to hate Janet and MJ. As far as MJ's wealth goes, it was mostly tied up in assets. I think MJ upset a lot of people when he bought up all the catalogs that he did back in the day. I think what he purchased is worth a billion dollars now. And why do people on the Org care so much about hits? There are plenty of crap songs out there by artists right now that are "hits" because their label bought the air time on the radio.....it's called pay n' play.

You just completely dodged every point. The point was that MJ was creatively washed up and simply had no drive for the last 15 years of his life. Even his fans who denied it at the time are realizing it now as even his bodyguards (who are being as nice as they can about him) have painted a picture of a man who didn't do much with his days. If you can't see this then you are in deep delusion. And as I explained he wrote hardly any new material in his final years, as I said at the time. Once again I was right. The fans were wrong.

You also lose massive credibility when you deny that he was in financial stress. To deny that is either delusional or dishonest on your part. He died hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. He had been sued dozens of times for non-payment of bills. He was missing mortgage payments on the family home in Los Angeles. Neverland was threatened with foreclosure. Before he finally relented and agreed to tour he had been reduced to auctioning his most treasured possessions. He had flown to Japan to spend two days signing autographs with fans for money - an extremely undignified way for a superstar to get cash. None of this is subject to debate. They are cold, hard facts. He had also given up half of the Beatles catalogue in exchange for cash.

And his aversion (outright hatred) of touring is also not in any dispute. He said it himself. Agreeing to that tour was a final act of desperation from a man who had nowhere else to turn. It ended up killing him. Sorry, but I said all this at the time and I was proven right. I'm actually astonished that there is anyone out there who still denies it.

SEANMAN said:

midnightmover said:

Those criticisms are persistent for the simple reason that they are true. And I notice you didn't actually rebutt a single one of them, just fired off a series of non-sequiters and empty assertions.

And by the way, you do realise that the Pleasure Principle was a video, not a live performance right? Therefore it's irrelevant to the point you thought you were addressing. It's also worth noting that every single part of it was choreographed. That's a big difference between her and her brother. Choreographed dancing was just one part of what he did. With Janet it was ALL she did. She was completely reliant on her choreographers. In this she was very much a precursor to Britney Spears.

Rebutting them would give credibility to them, and that wouldn't be wise, especially since all they really are are just meaningless chatter from someone who's still stuck on an opinion that died when Janet came into her own with a lasting, inspiring career. Talking to someone who's incredibly hung up on the "Janet Jackson only became a thing because she was MJ's sister" mystique, which is the EPITOME of bullshit by the way, is like having a convo with a brick wall. As for her dancing, it is an innate gift that choreographers were able to capitalize on. Period. She could always move, and she didn't need to prove it by ripping off L.A. breakdancers ala MJ to show it. Janet's dancing is more diverse, daring and intriguing than MJ's in that she has expressed the artform in many different ways, and her shtick didn't mostly include grabbing and thrusting her crotch and doing the moonwalk while yelling "HEE HEE HEE!"

Well, first of all I'm glad you admitted that you haven't rebutted a single one of my points. Many folks pretend they have when they haven't, so kudos to you for that. But good lordy, you need help if you think Janet was a better dancer than Michael. Janet herself would laugh at you for that.

Janet did what the choreographers told her to do. Period. The only moves of her own were the things she stole from her brother like hand gestures and even facial expressions, none of which looked right anyway since they were masculine. Although he was effeminate MJ was actually quite a masculine performer. If Janet had been more diligent she would've searched for a female to steal from instead of lazily taking her brother's gestures.

But those MJ traits aren't in the videos of course, only the live performances. The videos were all the choreographer's work. Even in live performances though you felt the choreographer should come out at the end and take the final bow instead of Janet. She was a total choreographer's puppet; the black Britney Spears.

SEANMAN said:

go2theMax said:

so, according 2 J-stans' Gospels, Janet created everything that is in 6 days and on the 7th day everyone was copying her

If you say so

y'all delusional, like lady gaga and beyonce fans..only difference is that there are only a few dozens of u

[Edited 8/6/14 6:07am]

midnightmover said:

go2theMax said:

SEANMAN said:

BlackCat1985 said:

go2theMax said:

y'all delusional, like lady gaga and beyonce fans..only difference is that there are only a few dozens of u

[Edited 8/6/14 6:07am]

So you think! Oh I forgot your a Madonna fan. This explains a lot.

Becuz only J-stans should give their 2 cents here..that should be unbiased

midnightmover said:

SEANMAN said:

Rebutting them would give credibility to them, and that wouldn't be wise, especially since all they really are are just meaningless chatter from someone who's still stuck on an opinion that died when Janet came into her own with a lasting, inspiring career. Talking to someone who's incredibly hung up on the "Janet Jackson only became a thing because she was MJ's sister" mystique, which is the EPITOME of bullshit by the way, is like having a convo with a brick wall. As for her dancing, it is an innate gift that choreographers were able to capitalize on. Period. She could always move, and she didn't need to prove it by ripping off L.A. breakdancers ala MJ to show it. Janet's dancing is more diverse, daring and intriguing than MJ's in that she has expressed the artform in many different ways, and her shtick didn't mostly include grabbing and thrusting her crotch and doing the moonwalk while yelling "HEE HEE HEE!"

Well, first of all I'm glad you admitted that you haven't rebutted a single one of my points. Many folks pretend they have when they haven't, so kudos to you for that. But good lordy, you need help if you think Janet was a better dancer than Michael. Janet herself would laugh at you for that.

Janet did what the choreographers told her to do. Period. The only moves of her own were the things she stole from her brother like hand gestures and even facial expressions, none of which looked right anyway since they were masculine. Although he was effeminate MJ was actually quite a masculine performer. If Janet had been more diligent she would've searched for a female to steal from instead of lazily taking her brother's gestures.

But those MJ traits aren't in the videos of course, only the live performances. The videos were all the choreographer's work. Even in live performances though you felt the choreographer should come out at the end and take the final bow instead of Janet. She was a total choreographer's puppet; the black Britney Spears.

Like I said before, I didn't bother with a rebuttal because your points were basically hogwash--the same silly mantra spoken time and time again by people stuck on a myth that's as dead as a doornail. And Janet, the BLACK BRITNEY SPEARS???? What in the living fuck kind of nonsense is that? I just can't...what are you, 12? Lord have mercy, you deserve a beatdown for that shit ALONE. Britney Spears is Janet 2.0. The white Janet. She came after and was inspired by her, and doesn't possess one iota of the talent and charisma that Janet has. Point blank period the end.

As for stealing, well, as I said before, Michael Jackson took the moves shown to him by Shalamar's Jeffrey Daniel and various LA breakers and co-opted them as his own. And if you'd have read what I said and weren't just talking to hear yourself talk, then you'd know that what I said was Janet's moves were more varied and her dancing more diverse. Nowhere in my statement did I say she was the better of the two, YOU said it . And I stand by my statements. Her moves WERE more diverse and innovative in that she was not stuck on kicking her leg, grabbing her crotch and then screaming/hiccuping . Her performances were more than that and she expressed a plethora of varied dances in the span of her career. Not only were the themes of her albums and her lyrical content more daring than MJ's, but her dancing was too. Oh, and before you start yapping about one stealing from the other, take a good look at Janet's THE KNOWLEDGE video and then watch the end of MJ's BLACK OR WHITE. Then, watch her LOVE WILL NEVER DO video and notice how big brother took a page from baby sis's book and hired the same director to basically make LOVE WILL NEVER DO pt. 2 for KEEP IT IN THE CLOSET. Then breathe it in, let it simmer and then marinate on it.

[Edited 8/6/14 17:40pm]

SEANMAN said:

midnightmover said:

Well, first of all I'm glad you admitted that you haven't rebutted a single one of my points. Many folks pretend they have when they haven't, so kudos to you for that. But good lordy, you need help if you think Janet was a better dancer than Michael. Janet herself would laugh at you for that.

Janet did what the choreographers told her to do. Period. The only moves of her own were the things she stole from her brother like hand gestures and even facial expressions, none of which looked right anyway since they were masculine. Although he was effeminate MJ was actually quite a masculine performer. If Janet had been more diligent she would've searched for a female to steal from instead of lazily taking her brother's gestures.

But those MJ traits aren't in the videos of course, only the live performances. The videos were all the choreographer's work. Even in live performances though you felt the choreographer should come out at the end and take the final bow instead of Janet. She was a total choreographer's puppet; the black Britney Spears.

Janet, the BLACK BRITNEY SPEARS???? What in the living fuck kind of nonsense is that? I just can't...what are you, 12? Lord have mercy, you deserve a beatdown for that shit ALONE. Britney Spears is Janet 2.0. The white Janet. She came after and was inspired by her. Point blank period the end.

As for stealing, well, as I said before, Michael Jackson took the moves shown to him by Shalamar's Jeffrey Daniel and various LA breakers and co-opted them as his own. And if you'd have read what I said and weren't just talking to hear yourself talk, then you'd know that what I said was that Janet's moves were more varied and her dancing more diverse. Nowhere in my statement did I say she was the better of the two, YOU said it . And I stand by my statements. Her moves WERE more diverse and innovative in that she was not stuck on kicking her leg, grabbing her crotch and then screaming/hiccuping . Her performances were more than that and she expressed a plethora of varied dances in the span of her career. Not only were the themes of her albums and her lyrical content more daring than MJ's, but her dancing was too. Oh, and before you start yapping about one stealing from the other, take a good look at Janet's THE KNOWLEDGE video and then watch the end of MJ's BLACK OR WHITE. Then, watch her LOVE WILL NEVER DO video and notice how big brother took a page from baby sis's book and hired the same director to basically make LOVE WILL NEVER DO pt. 2 for KEEP IT IN THE CLOSET. Then marinate on it.

unreal.......the commentary is getting worse by the minute

Janet released her first album in 1982

Spears first release occured in 1999

professionaly, Janet is 17 years Spears's senior but yet she is supposed to be "following" Britney

I think the music industry and what's left of it should just close up shop and just call it a day

the pop ascension has destroyed all perspective

what's the saying, it's not what we know but what we NEED to know

Scorp said:

SEANMAN said:

Janet, the BLACK BRITNEY SPEARS???? What in the living fuck kind of nonsense is that? I just can't...what are you, 12? Lord have mercy, you deserve a beatdown for that shit ALONE. Britney Spears is Janet 2.0. The white Janet. She came after and was inspired by her. Point blank period the end.

As for stealing, well, as I said before, Michael Jackson took the moves shown to him by Shalamar's Jeffrey Daniel and various LA breakers and co-opted them as his own. And if you'd have read what I said and weren't just talking to hear yourself talk, then you'd know that what I said was that Janet's moves were more varied and her dancing more diverse. Nowhere in my statement did I say she was the better of the two, YOU said it . And I stand by my statements. Her moves WERE more diverse and innovative in that she was not stuck on kicking her leg, grabbing her crotch and then screaming/hiccuping . Her performances were more than that and she expressed a plethora of varied dances in the span of her career. Not only were the themes of her albums and her lyrical content more daring than MJ's, but her dancing was too. Oh, and before you start yapping about one stealing from the other, take a good look at Janet's THE KNOWLEDGE video and then watch the end of MJ's BLACK OR WHITE. Then, watch her LOVE WILL NEVER DO video and notice how big brother took a page from baby sis's book and hired the same director to basically make LOVE WILL NEVER DO pt. 2 for KEEP IT IN THE CLOSET. Then marinate on it.

unreal.......the commentary is getting worse by the minute

Janet released her first album in 1982

Spears first release occured in 1999

professionaly, Janet is 17 years Spears's senior but yet she is supposed to be "following" Britney

I almost fell out of my chair with that shit. I'll just chalk it up to "midnightmover" being a woefully uninformed youngster. SMH.

go2theMax said:

SEANMAN said:

If you say so

y'all delusional, like lady gaga and beyonce fans..only difference is that there are only a few dozens of u

Oooh, I guess you told me, huh? Child, go over in the corner and

SEANMAN said:

Scorp said:

unreal.......the commentary is getting worse by the minute

Janet released her first album in 1982

Spears first release occured in 1999

professionaly, Janet is 17 years Spears's senior but yet she is supposed to be "following" Britney

I almost fell out of my chair with that shit. I'll just chalk it up to "midnightmover" being a woefully uninformed youngster. SMH.

lolll....I've almost fallen out the chair countless times w/teh stuff I've read over the past 10 years......

Janet has nothing to prove

BlackCat1985 said:

midnightmover said:

Well, first of all I'm glad you admitted that you haven't rebutted a single one of my points. Many folks pretend they have when they haven't, so kudos to you for that. But good lordy, you need help if you think Janet was a better dancer than Michael. Janet herself would laugh at you for that.

Janet did what the choreographers told her to do. Period. The only moves of her own were the things she stole from her brother like hand gestures and even facial expressions, none of which looked right anyway since they were masculine. Although he was effeminate MJ was actually quite a masculine performer. If Janet had been more diligent she would've searched for a female to steal from instead of lazily taking her brother's gestures.

But those MJ traits aren't in the videos of course, only the live performances. The videos were all the choreographer's work. Even in live performances though you felt the choreographer should come out at the end and take the final bow instead of Janet. She was a total choreographer's puppet; the black Britney Spears.

Lol! At Janet being the black Britney Spears. She wish she could dance half as good as Janet. Hell stretch that she wish she was Janet! I guess Janet should have been more like Madonna and Beyonce and steal damn near everything from everybody else. God forbid her trying to do something different. If you knew half as much as you THINK you know about Janet then you would know that she actually helped choreography some of her moves.You can say whatever you want but you still can not sit here and tell me with a straight face that this woman can not dance. I could give two shits if it was all choreographed which not just any old body can do. I know because I am a dancer and have studied both Mj and Janet for years. And I will tell you her shit is some of the hardest moves you will ever learn.

LOL indeed. Janet Jackson is the black Britney Spears. It just boggles the mind . Everyone knows that Janet is THE dance diva, and just about every female pop/R&B star today has shown her influence in them. It's not even up for dabate. Anyone who says anything different is operating from a place of envy. And that's kind of pathetic.

Scorp said:

SEANMAN said:

I almost fell out of my chair with that shit. I'll just chalk it up to "midnightmover" being a woefully uninformed youngster. SMH.

lolll....I've almost fallen out the chair countless times w/teh stuff I've read over the past 10 years......

Janet has nothing to prove

Exactly

BlackCat1985 said:

SEANMAN said:

Notice how all the detractors continuously come back to the thread time and time again? And for what? It's pretty sad, actually.

Lol! Janet and her IMPACT! They hate her so much that they have to come back for more.

Very true. I think they like to try and get a rise out of Janet fans, which is basically the job of a troll as opposed to someone with tact just saying that they're not a fan of someone and leaving it at that. It's hilarious when you think about it.

Double post.

[Edited 8/6/14 18:10pm]

SEANMAN said:

go2theMax said:

y'all delusional, like lady gaga and beyonce fans..only difference is that there are only a few dozens of u

Oooh, I guess you told me, huh? Child, go over in the corner and

go yourself, freak!

always found it surprising that when Janet fanatics write that her dancing surpass MJ (raving lunatic) - it is not considered an exaggeration, but when someone compares Janet and Britney or Beyonce, they start to insult people and become hostile. double standards.

what is normal for you to others can be an incredible absurdity and vice versa.

I can't say I'm a 'fan' of Janet, I liked her during her Control-Velvet Rope period.

I think starting out Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis were 1/2 the draw to Janet.

I think what also makes an artist/musician/singer is how they travers the culture of the time.

I think those 4 albums reflected well the culture of the times. Rhythm Nation I always loved, maybe for it's industrial feel. But I still have that on cd. Control, I reaquainted myself with that one, I bought that album when it came out, and later gave it to a girlfriend or sister of a friend.

Those albums following Velvet Rope, I just couldn't get into, it did not have that reflection the other albums had 4 me, and just felt like a rehashing of what worked before, and the orgasm pieces just got tired.

Scorp said:

SEANMAN said:

Janet, the BLACK BRITNEY SPEARS???? What in the living fuck kind of nonsense is that? I just can't...what are you, 12? Lord have mercy, you deserve a beatdown for that shit ALONE. Britney Spears is Janet 2.0. The white Janet. She came after and was inspired by her. Point blank period the end.

As for stealing, well, as I said before, Michael Jackson took the moves shown to him by Shalamar's Jeffrey Daniel and various LA breakers and co-opted them as his own. And if you'd have read what I said and weren't just talking to hear yourself talk, then you'd know that what I said was that Janet's moves were more varied and her dancing more diverse. Nowhere in my statement did I say she was the better of the two, YOU said it . And I stand by my statements. Her moves WERE more diverse and innovative in that she was not stuck on kicking her leg, grabbing her crotch and then screaming/hiccuping . Her performances were more than that and she expressed a plethora of varied dances in the span of her career. Not only were the themes of her albums and her lyrical content more daring than MJ's, but her dancing was too. Oh, and before you start yapping about one stealing from the other, take a good look at Janet's THE KNOWLEDGE video and then watch the end of MJ's BLACK OR WHITE. Then, watch her LOVE WILL NEVER DO video and notice how big brother took a page from baby sis's book and hired the same director to basically make LOVE WILL NEVER DO pt. 2 for KEEP IT IN THE CLOSET. Then marinate on it.

unreal.......the commentary is getting worse by the minute

Janet released her first album in 1982

Spears first release occured in 1999

professionaly, Janet is 17 years Spears's senior but yet she is supposed to be "following" Britney

I think the music industry and what's left of it should just close up shop and just call it a day

the pop ascension has destroyed all perspective

what's the saying, it's not what we know but what we NEED to know

Jesus, you two are not the sharpest tools in the box, are you? You seriously think I don't know that Janet came out before Britney? Use your heads, guys. Of course Janet came first, but that's not the point. Duh! The point is that both of them are completely dependent on choreographers. They are MANUFACTURED artists in every sense of the word.

Janet had better producers and a mentor and co-writer who did a great job of guiding her career (Rene Elizondo), but had she come along 17 years later and been white instead of black she could've easily had an identical career to Spears. They have the same level of talent. Jennifer Lopez is another one of these soulless puppets merely executing her choreographer's instructions. You guys can't see this because, well, as we've established, you're not the sharpest tools in the box.

As for Janet's dancing being more varied than Michael's that is simply a reflection of the fact that he had a style and she didn't. He synthesized elements from street dance, Bob Fosse, etc. and made something distinctly his own. That's what ARTISTS do. Janet was not an artist though. Her style was whatever the choreographers gave her.

And as for the lyrical content, again, you seem to have forgotten the public confession Janet made in 1997/8. What we found out then was that Rene had been "co-writing" her songs for years as well as guiding her whole career. She said she had felt guilty giving interviews claiming credit for his ideas. After he left her career was never the same and the songwriting took a massive turn for the worse. The lyrics particularly became ATROCIOUS at that point. Absolutely appalling. However much Rene got paid after their divorce he deserved every penny. Without him, her career became a train-wreck and an embarrassment. Pretty much everyone who's not a besotted fan can see this.

[Edited 8/7/14 12:07pm]

I am glad somone else brought up the FACT that Janet ADMITTED on national TV that Rene had co-written some of her biggest hits and she had never given him credit for it. I posted this on this org. and Janet stans had a nervous breakdown denying that FACT. I also like your synopis of the comparison of Janet's choregraphed moves as compared to the artistry of Michael's dancing.

[Edited 8/7/14 10:12am]

midnightmover said:

Free2BMe said: