This was a publicity stunt...

And it worked...

scriptgirl said:

Cleopatra wasn't black-she was Macedonian Greek.

Oh yes, Cleopatra was a black woman.

SeventeenDayze said:

scriptgirl said:

I am pretty sure I have read that he said his mom was filipino.

I know that african americans can look mixed. I do but I am not-as someone who has a boatload of mixed friends, Pharrell does look mixed. His features look Asian.

Yeah I think perhaps his Native American ancestry (that I assume that he has) also carries traces of Asian features. All of the Native Americans that crossed over bridges migrating from East Asia to North America were the ones who carried the Asian genetic traits that many Native Americans of our era still have. Something else to consider is that during slavery in America (towards the latter stages) Chinese workers often worked alongside the black slaves. Intermarriage, mixing, etc. followed.

All that being said, I still wonder why Pharrell is tight-lipped about that issue. There are a lot of blacks who don't acknowledge any other ancestry because society treats them the same as those who are not necessarily "mixed". It's really complicated.

Off topic, but interestingly enough, new studies suggest that Native Americans may be more closely related to West Eurasians than East Asians as previously thought.

[Edited 6/16/14 6:50am]

We are all mixed... if you are going to go there. If you are speaking of African-Americans, I don't know any family who has to go way back... when the milk and/or the cream "hit" the coffee. So, I'm always amused when many blacks don't match up with some sort of phenotypical chart, its assumed they must be "mixed". I've digressed.....

Native American's are somewhat the last "minority" some folks feel they can be insult and its... OK. I suspect in part because these "American's" neither have the numbers nor the montary weight to push back when they are insulted, Native Americans should just take it and shut up.

I don't think Mr. Williams intended the headdress to be insulting; I'm almost certain Mr. Williams wasn't aware how sacred Native Headdress is. Fine, but less not confuse possible ignorance with being PC. Native Americans have been fighting for sometime to stop these types of cartoon caricaures of their people and cultural.

=========================

[Edited 6/16/14 14:07pm]

As usual, Ms Trina is right!

Trina!

TD3 said:

We are all mixed... if you are going to go there. If you are speaking of African-Americans, I don't know any family who has to go way back... when the milk and/or the cream "hit" the coffee. So, I'm always amused when many blacks don't match up with some sort of phenotypical chart, its assumed they must be "mixed". I've digressed.....

Native American's are somewhat the last "minority" some folks feel they can be insult and its... OK. I suspect in part because these "American's" neither have the numbers nor the montary weight to push back when they are insulted, Native Americans should just take it and shut up.

I don't think Mr. Williams intended the headdress to be insulting; I'm almost certain Mr. Williams wasn't aware how sacred Native Headdress is. Fine, but less not confuse possible ignorance with being PC. Native Americans have been fighting for sometime to stop these types of cartoon caricaures of their people and cultural.

=========================

[Edited 6/16/14 14:07pm]

Agreed!

Beautifulstarr123 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Their asses and titties are over exaggerated to depict their "Blackness". They're not supposed to be overweight drag queens. And this foolishness is so foul, I don't even know where to begin:

Well, that's what happens when you give certain folks a pass, not you in general.

This is what happens when people don't know their history, and it's plastered in front of their faces.

oh God...don't EVEN get me started on that Dark Horse video....she turned some dude's Allah necklace into dust...if that's not a sign...among other things.

scriptgirl said:

Cleopatra wasn't black-she was Macedonian Greek.

Impossible. The word "black" didn't even exist back then, so she would have to be what the so called "black" person now, was called back then. She was a dark skinned woman from Kemet(Egypt), so I don't know who this "white" Cleopatra is supposed to be. That is some made up mythical creature.

ScarletScandal said:

scriptgirl said:

Cleopatra wasn't black-she was Macedonian Greek.

Impossible. The word "black" didn't even exist back then, so she would have to be what the so called "black" person now, was called back then. She was a dark skinned woman from Kemet(Egypt), so I don't know who this "white" Cleopatra is supposed to be. That is some made up mythical creature.

This reminds me on how bent some people are in calling Obama "half-white" and denying that his black identity is more apparent. He even said himself when he was living in NYC he had problems getting a taxi. Oh, and that police commissioner in New Hampshire didn't hold back in saying that "Obama is an N-word and goes above and beyond the definition"....my point is that I agree with ScarletScandal, if the word doesn't exist, then don't expect it to be in history books. Why can't people accept that Cleopatra was black? Are we still trying to hold onto the notion that "aliens" build the pyramids? Please....

[Edited 6/17/14 11:37am]

SeventeenDayze said:

ScarletScandal said:

Impossible. The word "black" didn't even exist back then, so she would have to be what the so called "black" person now, was called back then. She was a dark skinned woman from Kemet(Egypt), so I don't know who this "white" Cleopatra is supposed to be. That is some made up mythical creature.

This reminds me on how bent some people are in calling Obama "half-white" and denying that his black identity is more apparent. He even said himself when he was living in NYC he had problems getting a taxi. Oh, and that police commissioner in New Hampshire didn't hold back in saying that "Obama is an N-word and goes above and beyond the definition"....my point is that I agree with scriptgirl, if the word doesn't exist, then don't expect it to be in history books. Why can't people accept that Cleopatra was black? Are we still trying to hold onto the notion that "aliens" build the pyramids? Please....

Lol so let me get this right....the Aliens that built the pyramids, chose to depict themselves as Black people on the walls? Sure.......

ScarletScandal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

This reminds me on how bent some people are in calling Obama "half-white" and denying that his black identity is more apparent. He even said himself when he was living in NYC he had problems getting a taxi. Oh, and that police commissioner in New Hampshire didn't hold back in saying that "Obama is an N-word and goes above and beyond the definition"....my point is that I agree with scriptgirl, if the word doesn't exist, then don't expect it to be in history books. Why can't people accept that Cleopatra was black? Are we still trying to hold onto the notion that "aliens" build the pyramids? Please....

Lol so let me get this right....the Aliens that built the pyramids, chose to depict themselves as Black people on the walls? Sure.......

I remember the first time I heard the aliens nonsense, I thought to myself that it's amazing that people would rather say an alien did it than admit who really built them! LOL!

My previous post had a typo. I meant to write that I agree with Scarlet and NOT scriptgirl. Sorry

ScarletScandal said:

scriptgirl said:

Cleopatra wasn't black-she was Macedonian Greek.

Impossible. The word "black" didn't even exist back then, so she would have to be what the so called "black" person now, was called back then. She was a dark skinned woman from Kemet(Egypt), so I don't know who this "white" Cleopatra is supposed to be. That is some made up mythical creature.

You could thank Liz Taylor

Beautifulstarr123 said:

ScarletScandal said:

Impossible. The word "black" didn't even exist back then, so she would have to be what the so called "black" person now, was called back then. She was a dark skinned woman from Kemet(Egypt), so I don't know who this "white" Cleopatra is supposed to be. That is some made up mythical creature.

You could thank Liz Taylor

Yeah Hollywood has convinced people that Sly Stallone was a boxer in real life

If you look at the surviving coin from Cleopatra's reign,you can see her hooked nose-her features were Greek.

scriptgirl said:

If you look at the surviving coin from Cleopatra's reign,you can see her hooked nose-her features were Greek.

Do you think it would be weird if 1,000 years from now there would be people who would deny that Michael Jordan was black? What's so hard about recognizing Cleopatra as the same? Afterall, she was "African" But, I guess this is when I'm going to get schooled by some folks here on this thread that there were Europeans in Africa (conversely, there were Africans in Europe as well). Maybe there were Africans living in what you call Greek Macedonia.....

Look, I'm black and have been obsessed with old girl for ages. I have never read conclusively she was black. It has always been that she is Macedonian greek. I even had an African scholar confirm that.

scriptgirl said:

Look, I'm black and have been obsessed with old girl for ages. I have never read conclusively she was black. It has always been that she is Macedonian greek. I even had an African scholar confirm that.

I remember a while back there were some folks in a conversation about MLK. Someone mentioned that because of the way history is often re-written, there might be people several years from now that might think MLK was white. It was an extreme example but it was meant to draw attention to the fact that once certain achivements or historical events happen, there are people who will begin to consciously repackage and erase certain aspects of that person's history just to align it more with the mainstream or less-threatening society's expectation.

For example, this happened with the Native American in the U.S. who were sent off to Anglo schools. They cut their hair, refused to let them write or speak their native language and separated them from their families. On top of the tragic genocide these folks already experienced, now they have to deal with their culture being erased?

I think this happened with Egyptians as well. I think this is also tantamount to people who assign a 'white' identity to blacks that don't fight the stereotype of what a black (American) should be.

ScarletScandal said:

scriptgirl said:

Cleopatra wasn't black-she was Macedonian Greek.

Impossible. The word "black" didn't even exist back then, so she would have to be what the so called "black" person now, was called back then. She was a dark skinned woman from Kemet(Egypt), so I don't know who this "white" Cleopatra is supposed to be. That is some made up mythical creature.

And you can thank racism AND white supermacy for inventing that misconception. It's typical whitewashed world history at its worst.

Then I'm sorry, but you have been reading the wrong things. It's not widespread knowledge.

scriptgirl said:

Look, I'm black and have been obsessed with old girl for ages. I have never read conclusively she was black.

ScarletScandal said:

Then I'm sorry, but you have been reading the wrong things. It's not widespread knowledge.

scriptgirl said:

Look, I'm black and have been obsessed with old girl for ages. I have never read conclusively she was black.

So when Pharrell does this, there's outrage but it's perfectly okay for others to appropriate black culture? This seems bizarre, don't it? There are articles being written these days saying R&B is dead but then there are certain acts being championed as those keeping R&B alive? WHAT? This Cleopatra debate is the same. Something that is clearly NOT of Anglo origin somehow gets repackaged and sold to the masses as the polar opposite of what it really is!

How the hell does Macklemore get the Grammy instead of Kendrick Lamar? We all know that awards are more or less rigged but I think that was a slap in the face to Kendrick Lamar and to the black community. It's a reminder that the true talents are Eminem, Iggly Azalea, Justin Timberlake and Miley Cyrus....

[Edited 6/19/14 9:53am]

SeventeenDayze said:

ScarletScandal said:

Then I'm sorry, but you have been reading the wrong things. It's not widespread knowledge.

So when Pharrell does this, there's outrage but it's perfectly okay for others to appropriate black culture? This seems bizarre, don't it? There are articles being written these days saying R&B is dead but then there are certain acts being championed as those keeping R&B alive? WHAT? This Cleopatra debate is the same. Something that is clearly NOT of Anglo origin somehow gets repackaged and sold to the masses as the polar opposite of what it really is!

How the hell does Macklemore get the Grammy instead of Kendrick Lamar? We all know that awards are more or less rigged but I think that was a slap in the face to Kendrick Lamar and to the black community. It's a reminder that the true talents are Eminem, Iggly Azalea, Justin Timberlake and Miley Cyrus....

[Edited 6/19/14 9:53am]

In Pharrell's case, race was not the issue, culture and ignorance is.

TD3 said:

We are all mixed... if you are going to go there. If you are speaking of African-Americans, I don't know any family who has to go way back... when the milk and/or the cream "hit" the coffee. So, I'm always amused when many blacks don't match up with some sort of phenotypical chart, its assumed they must be "mixed". I've digressed.....

Native American's are somewhat the last "minority" some folks feel they can be insult and its... OK. I suspect in part because these "American's" neither have the numbers nor the montary weight to push back when they are insulted, Native Americans should just take it and shut up.

I don't think Mr. Williams intended the headdress to be insulting; I'm almost certain Mr. Williams wasn't aware how sacred Native Headdress is. Fine, but less not confuse possible ignorance with being PC. Native Americans have been fighting for sometime to stop these types of cartoon caricaures of their people and cultural.

=========================

[Edited 6/16/14 14:07pm]

Agreed.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

So when Pharrell does this, there's outrage but it's perfectly okay for others to appropriate black culture? This seems bizarre, don't it? There are articles being written these days saying R&B is dead but then there are certain acts being championed as those keeping R&B alive? WHAT? This Cleopatra debate is the same. Something that is clearly NOT of Anglo origin somehow gets repackaged and sold to the masses as the polar opposite of what it really is!

How the hell does Macklemore get the Grammy instead of Kendrick Lamar? We all know that awards are more or less rigged but I think that was a slap in the face to Kendrick Lamar and to the black community. It's a reminder that the true talents are Eminem, Iggly Azalea, Justin Timberlake and Miley Cyrus....

[Edited 6/19/14 9:53am]

In Pharrell's case, race was not the issue, culture and ignorance is.

This still makes me wonder if there are any Native Americans that have copied aspects of black culture. I guess depending on how you define "black culture" you could make the argument either way. Most people who say black culture is hip-hop but obviously these sacred objects such as headdresses have a much longer history than the 30 odd years that hip-hop has been around.

Erasing a culture or taking it and making it as your own is tragic.

Remember when Johnny Depp was doing media rounds saying that since he has Native American blood that he felt okay with playing the role of Tonto in the Lone Ranger? I don't think he meant any disrespect at all but I wonder why he felt it was necessary to go into his own racial background in that moment.

SeventeenDayze said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

In Pharrell's case, race was not the issue, culture and ignorance is.

This still makes me wonder if there are any Native Americans that have copied aspects of black culture. I guess depending on how you define "black culture" you could make the argument either way. Most people who say black culture is hip-hop but obviously these sacred objects such as headdresses have a much longer history than the 30 odd years that hip-hop has been around.

Erasing a culture or taking it and making it as your own is tragic.

Remember when Johnny Depp was doing media rounds saying that since he has Native American blood that he felt okay with playing the role of Tonto in the Lone Ranger? I don't think he meant any disrespect at all but I wonder why he felt it was necessary to go into his own racial background in that moment.

I was surfing another website, and this issue came up, ironically. Someone commented, and I do hope that I'm articulating and paraphrasing the comment correctly, if hip-hop came from a tribe of people from Africa, and not being exploited for money, then it could be deemed sacred.

As for Johnny Depp, my personal belief on that is he's claiming Native American blood because it was convenient for him, to create a box draw sensation. I remembered Johnny Depp, since the TV show "21 Jump Street" of which there's a movie out, based on that. I followed his career, over the years, and not once has he ever claimed the heritage. That's where the controversy came out, I believe.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

This still makes me wonder if there are any Native Americans that have copied aspects of black culture. I guess depending on how you define "black culture" you could make the argument either way. Most people who say black culture is hip-hop but obviously these sacred objects such as headdresses have a much longer history than the 30 odd years that hip-hop has been around.

Erasing a culture or taking it and making it as your own is tragic.

Remember when Johnny Depp was doing media rounds saying that since he has Native American blood that he felt okay with playing the role of Tonto in the Lone Ranger? I don't think he meant any disrespect at all but I wonder why he felt it was necessary to go into his own racial background in that moment.

I was surfing another website, and this issue came up, ironically. Someone commented, and I do hope that I'm articulating and paraphrasing the comment correctly, if hip-hop came from a tribe of people from Africa, and not being exploited for money, then it could be deemed sacred.

As for Johnny Depp, my personal belief on that is he's claiming Native American blood because it was convenient for him, to create a box draw sensation. I remembered Johnny Depp, since the TV show "21 Jump Street" of which there's a movie out, based on that. I followed his career, over the years, and not once has he ever claimed the heritage. That's where the controversy came out, I believe.

Yeah I think you're right. I've been a fan of his for a long time and I think the only time I've heard him talk about it was when he was on Letterman a few years ago. It might have been when he was filming the Lone Ranger but I don't remember. I think certainly after Wikipedia started becoming more popular and someone put his ancestry on his page, then I think it forced the issue. Apparently, Johnny also has black heritage as well. I think he's got a 4th great-grandmother who was black. You can look at him and tell he's not "completely" white because of his skin tone.

If hip-hop would have started in Africa and managed not to be sold for money, I'd be surprised Everything else in Africa is taken and sold!

I've heard Johnny talk about his Indian Heritage. In fact, isn't one of his tatts of a Native American?

How do you know for sure Johnny has black ancestry?

scriptgirl said:

I've heard Johnny talk about his Indian Heritage. In fact, isn't one of his tatts of a Native American?

How do you know for sure Johnny has black ancestry?

look it up; www.google.com

Thanks

Seventeen, there was no need for snarkiness.