getxxxx said:

funny,I just started a new thread about Jamiroquai

....and thanks for reading the link

Again I Ask where was the uproar when this happen

thesoulbrother said:

I don't know... maybe it's just me and I don't see what the problem is. We've all have gotten so PC nowadays and I don't get it. Everything is a controversy and I say it time and time again: We get pissed about the wrong things! Everyone wants to forgive Justin Bieber for saying the N-word but Paula Deen's career was ruined. It's like people pick and choose what to be upset over. The man wore an Indian head piece. What was so controversial about that? And hell, Felipe Rose has made an entire career dressed as an Indian and no one ever called him out for that! Granted, he says he's Indian but Pharrell could've said the same thing. Goodness.

well said

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Arbwyth said:

.

Since it's looking like nobody on here is actually going to go to that link, I'll quote one of the most important parts:

.

"Native people utilize headdresses as one of our highest honors, reserved for those select few people who did something so valorous and special -- oftentimes in battle, fighting off genocide -- that we must identify them by putting pieces of the soaring eagle on their head.

.

It is reserved for those special individuals. Exclusively.

.

It's not simply a matter of being "Native" either. It's not that simple. MOST Natives will never earn the right to wear a headdress."


The fact that it appears nobody else on this thread is aware of this is an example of exactly WHY it's problematic to cheapen the headdress in the way pop culture has. And no, it's not appropriate to wear it as a Halloween costume, either. The problem isn't PC culture, as some here with no knowledge of American Indian culture are claiming. The "problem" is that in the Internet era, there's no excuse for not educating yourselves when these issues come up. The other problem is that people are now apparently too lazy to offer basic respect to other human beings; that's usually the real issue when people complain about everything being PC -- it's just that those individuals find it too inconvenient to offer basic respect to other human beings. Because that's what this is about. Basic respect. If you were raised to be respectful, to not be rude, well, this is simply an extension of that.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:05pm]

They say ignorance is bliss, but you're right: there's is no legitimate excuse to be ignorant, if I'm making sense here.

Yup, you're making sense. I'd also like to say that, although I don't really like Pharrell anymore, everyone on this thread should keep in mind that nobody is saying he's a horrible person or that we should boycott his music. It also seems he's learned his lesson, as should anyone here. Take it as a learning experience and realize why this offends Native people.

Also, with regards to Jamiroquai, I would guess Jay doesn't get as much shit because he's not really as high profile in the United States. In Europe, where he's more popular, people aren't as aware of the history of Native Americans. That doesn't make what he's doing OK, but it does explain why he isn't being held as accountable.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:26pm]

Victoria’s Secret Apologizes After Using a Native American Headdress In Their Fashion Show

Bryan Bedder/ Getty Images

Every year, the masterminds at Victoria’s Secret stage a televised fashion show, complete with supermodels, pop stars and other token celebrities, in order to show America the true meaning of the word “sexy”. But somewhere along the line in this year’s planning stages something went awry: instead of sexy they went with culturally offensive, sending supermodel Karlie Kloss down the catwalk in a Native American headdress and a teensy bikini.

.

Unsurprisingly, the backlash was swift. A Navajo Nation spokesman, Erny Zah, told the Associated Press, “We have gone through the atrocities to survive and ensure our way of life continues. Any mockery, whether it’s Halloween, Victoria’s Secret — they are spitting on us. They are spitting on our culture, and it’s upsetting.”

.

(A brief lesson in cultural and historical sensitivity: the most commonly depicted Native American headdresses, like the one Kloss sported, are those of the Plains tribes and worn by chiefs and honored warriors. They also often have spiritual significance.)

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Victoria’s Secret was quick to apologize following the incident, as well as to announce that the offending segment would be edited out for the show’s Dec. 4 broadcast. Kloss also tweeted her apologies.

.

Problem solved? Sort of. As NewsFeed has pointed out in the past, these sorts of offensive stunts take place quite often in the fashion world. And as BuzzFeed points out, Victoria’s Secret has been known to feature questionable outfits in their catalogues as well. The lingerie’s company mea culpa might seem like a step in the right direction, but until the fashion industry lays off the racist and derogatory stunts, we’re going to remain turned off.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:32pm]

Arbwyth said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

They say ignorance is bliss, but you're right: there's is no legitimate excuse to be ignorant, if I'm making sense here.

Yup, you're making sense. I'd also like to say that, although I don't really like Pharrell anymore, everyone on this thread should keep in mind that nobody is saying he's a horrible person or that we should boycott his music. It also seems he's learned his lesson, as should anyone here. Take it as a learning experience and realize why this offends Native people.

Also, with regards to Jamiroquai, I would guess Jay doesn't get as much shit because he's not really as high profile in the United States. In Europe, where he's more popular, people aren't as aware of the history of Native Americans. That doesn't make what he's doing OK, but it does explain why he isn't being held as accountable.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:26pm]

Yeah, you can't tell people to "get over it" when something offends them.

scorp84 said:

People have to pick their battles wisely. This is Not one of them...

I agree.There are plently of things to get offended about in today's world.This isn't one of them.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Yeah, you can't tell people to "get over it" when something offends them.

Like to some people the 'Stars & Bars' just means "Southern Pride" with people of different races (not just rednecks) wearing it on their clothes or have it on their license plates/truck/car, but to others it means racism, the Confederacy, or slavery and get offended by it.

Interestingly, where many seem to be determined to defend the idea that he's entitled to use the imagery, regardless of any offence caused, Pharrell himself seems to have come straight out with a sincere apology (in the last line of the article above). Perhaps there's something to be gleaned from that - that, unavoidably, we're all going to tread on each others' toes from time to time, but there are various different ways to deal with that when it happens; and rather than follow this currently popular line of bullishly asserting an absolute entitlement to tread that course regardless of whose toes are in the way, we also have the option of saying sorry, finding out more about what's going on there and why there are sensitivities, and perhaps forming closer and more empathetic relations with each other in the process.

...to be honest, my initial reaction was "why is this controversial - there wouldn't be any fuss if he wore a, for example a kilt (I'm Scottish) or Lederhosen?"...so this discussion and the related links posted has been food for thought.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Arbwyth said:

Yup, you're making sense. I'd also like to say that, although I don't really like Pharrell anymore, everyone on this thread should keep in mind that nobody is saying he's a horrible person or that we should boycott his music. It also seems he's learned his lesson, as should anyone here. Take it as a learning experience and realize why this offends Native people.

Also, with regards to Jamiroquai, I would guess Jay doesn't get as much shit because he's not really as high profile in the United States. In Europe, where he's more popular, people aren't as aware of the history of Native Americans. That doesn't make what he's doing OK, but it does explain why he isn't being held as accountable.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:26pm]

Yeah, you can't tell people to "get over it" when something offends them.

Of course not because that would be like telling Black people to "get over it" when it comes to the subject of our history in America. Oh but wait...

Cool things should belong to everyone.

MickyDolenz said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Yeah, you can't tell people to "get over it" when something offends them.

Like to some people the 'Stars & Bars' just means "Southern Pride" with people of different races (not just rednecks) wearing it on their clothes or have it on their license plates/truck/car, but to others it means racism, the Confederacy, or slavery and get offended by it.

Personally, it offends me

...and don't get me started on the "N" word , but I digress.

hw3004 said:

...to be honest, my initial reaction was "why is this controversial - there wouldn't be any fuss if he wore a, for example a kilt (I'm Scottish) or Lederhosen?"...so this discussion and the related links posted has been food for thought.

Why can't everyone see that this is a publicity stunt? Geez.

I don't know much about Pharrell but does anyone know if American Indian is part of his racial heritage? He looks like it very well could be. If so, I'm not sure why the magazine cover is offensive?

My favorite singer used to sport indian head-dress and garb all the time back in the 70's because it was part of her heritage. I don't recall anyone being outraged over it.

kitbradley said:

I don't know much about Pharrell but does anyone know if American Indian is part of his racial heritage? He looks like it very well could be. If so, I'm not sure why the magazine cover is offensive?

My favorite singer used to sport indian head-dress and garb all the time back in the 70's because it was part of her heritage. I don't recall anyone being outraged over it.

I think he just identifies as black and nothing else. The media speculates about what else he could be but not all black people look the same, so he just has unusual features.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Of course not because that would be like telling Black people to "get over it" when it comes to the subject of our history in America. Oh but wait...

I think if Pharrell had offend the Jews, his career would probably be toast.

You got that right! Imagine if a black NBA owner said something about Jews. But, it's perfectly okay to be racist towards everyone else though? Pathetic aint it? I think there are still some folks in the industry who have a bullseye on Mel Gibson. But, one thing that was cool is Robert Downey Jr (who is Jewish) doing a pretty brave thing here a few years ago.

[Edited 6/9/14 12:50pm]

kitbradley said:

I don't know much about Pharrell but does anyone know if American Indian is part of his racial heritage? He looks like it very well could be. If so, I'm not sure why the magazine cover is offensive?

My favorite singer used to sport indian head-dress and garb all the time back in the 70's because it was part of her heritage. I don't recall anyone being outraged over it.

THAT'S^ because political incorrectness was very legal in the 1970's.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Of course not because that would be like telling Black people to "get over it" when it comes to the subject of our history in America. Oh but wait...

I think if Pharrell had offend the Jews, his career would probably be toast.

Exactly. In the entertainment industry these days, Jews & LGBTs are THE main two factions you do not want to piss off if you value your career as an entertainer. And it's a shame that black folks do not have that kind of power.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Arbwyth said:

.

Since it's looking like nobody on here is actually going to go to that link, I'll quote one of the most important parts:

.

"Native people utilize headdresses as one of our highest honors, reserved for those select few people who did something so valorous and special -- oftentimes in battle, fighting off genocide -- that we must identify them by putting pieces of the soaring eagle on their head.

.

It is reserved for those special individuals. Exclusively.

.

It's not simply a matter of being "Native" either. It's not that simple. MOST Natives will never earn the right to wear a headdress."


The fact that it appears nobody else on this thread is aware of this is an example of exactly WHY it's problematic to cheapen the headdress in the way pop culture has. And no, it's not appropriate to wear it as a Halloween costume, either. The problem isn't PC culture, as some here with no knowledge of American Indian culture are claiming. The "problem" is that in the Internet era, there's no excuse for not educating yourselves when these issues come up. The other problem is that people are now apparently too lazy to offer basic respect to other human beings; that's usually the real issue when people complain about everything being PC -- it's just that those individuals find it too inconvenient to offer basic respect to other human beings. Because that's what this is about. Basic respect. If you were raised to be respectful, to not be rude, well, this is simply an extension of that.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:05pm]

They say ignorance is bliss, but you're right: there's is no legitimate excuse to be ignorant, if I'm making sense here.

"Now where I come from we don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be.

Our clothes, our hair, we don't care. It's all about being there."

I may wear a native American headdress for Halloween just because.

SeventeenDayze said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said: I think if Pharrell had offend the Jews, his career would probably be toast.

You got that right! Imagine if a black NBA owner said something about Jews. But, it's perfectly okay to be racist towards everyone else though? Pathetic aint it? I think there are still some folks in the industry who have a bullseye on Mel Gibson. But, one thing that was cool is Robert Downey Jr (who is Jewish) doing a pretty brave thing here a few years ago.

[Edited 6/9/14 12:50pm]

Yes, this is brave and noble of Robert Downey Jr to do this for Mel Gibson, and forgiveness is divine. However, Mel's drunken stupor has cost him his very prosperous career as far as Hollywood is concern.

In all fairness and honesty to everyone, I do see both sides of the argument here. Only God knows why the headdress issue was never addressed for the many years that both celebrities and your average Joes were sporting them. However, the Native human rights organizations are addressing the issue now, for a number of Native Americans are offended, and it does sounds fair to be sensitive to what they are finding offensive right now. This incident may have taught ignorance, and to be more understanding to the culture.

EroticDreamer said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

They say ignorance is bliss, but you're right: there's is no legitimate excuse to be ignorant, if I'm making sense here.

"Now where I come from we don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be.

Our clothes, our hair, we don't care. It's all about being there."

I may wear a native American headdress for Halloween just because.

There was some actress, and I forgot her name wore a blackface for halloween, and caught controversy over it. So, I guess it's ok to wear what you wanna wear, even if it offends a certain race or ethnic group of people.

TonyVanDam said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said: I think if Pharrell had offend the Jews, his career would probably be toast.

Exactly. In the entertainment industry these days, Jews & LGBTs are THE main two factions you do not want to piss off if you value your career as an entertainer. And it's a shame that black folks do not have that kind of power.

Well, that's like biting the hand that feeds you, pretty much.

aardvark15 said:

Cher is Native American.

Arbwyth said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

There's an Native American writer from the HuffPost who has given a more detailed breakdown as to why is this offensive that Pharrell is doing to some Natives. Here's the link. I think it is interesting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gyasi-/pharell-williams-headdresses_b_5449926.html?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black+Voices

.

Since it's looking like nobody on here is actually going to go to that link, I'll quote one of the most important parts:

.

"Native people utilize headdresses as one of our highest honors, reserved for those select few people who did something so valorous and special -- oftentimes in battle, fighting off genocide -- that we must identify them by putting pieces of the soaring eagle on their head.

.

It is reserved for those special individuals. Exclusively.

.

It's not simply a matter of being "Native" either. It's not that simple. MOST Natives will never earn the right to wear a headdress."


The fact that it appears nobody else on this thread is aware of this is an example of exactly WHY it's problematic to cheapen the headdress in the way pop culture has. And no, it's not appropriate to wear it as a Halloween costume, either. The problem isn't PC culture, as some here with no knowledge of American Indian culture are claiming. The "problem" is that in the Internet era, there's no excuse for not educating yourselves when these issues come up. The other problem is that people are now apparently too lazy to offer basic respect to other human beings; that's usually the real issue when people complain about everything being PC -- it's just that those individuals find it too inconvenient to offer basic respect to other human beings. Because that's what this is about. Basic respect. If you were raised to be respectful, to not be rude, well, this is simply an extension of that.

[Edited 6/8/14 20:05pm]

Well I did go to the link.

The thing is, no explanation is necessary...I may not find it offensive but if they do, then that's enough.

These days Asians find it offensive to be referred to as Oriental. I'm not sure why but I simply don't call them that anymore.