Yeah, I prefer his handling of sexual themes during the 1980s more than during the 1990s. SOTT / Lovesexy period especially. It was more fun.

I mean, I'm watching the Ryde Divine TV-special as of writing this and some of this stuff is just hilarious in an unintentional way.

Fuck. Now the gameboyz are wearing judo gi's.

'WHEN WILL MADONNA STOP BEING RELEVANT?'

When her fans wake up.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

If it wasn't for MTV, she would be another flash in a pan female artist, just a zit on the radar screen, and she wouldn't have the crossover success that she has. Prince and MJ wouldn't have the crossover success, neither, just another R&B artist, all three of them. Madonna started out underground and on black radio stations.

True

the impact MTV and videos had for artists we really can't say how far they all would have gotten if they didn't have video to help

I was watching a show on the Disco era and it discussed a lot of the singer of those times, and why many of them were not famous. They said because most of them didn't have a face, people had the 45s and lps and danced up storms to their music at the discos and parties, but most did not know who they were. Donna Summers was marketed in a way that made her more visible and it took her further...

A big section of Michael J's superstar period came about because of the videos & mini movies and he gave you something to look at.

Now most videos that people put out dont have any direction, its just someones idea of hype

But Prince MJ(especially) Madonna(especially) put a lot of their person in the videos it was artistic and gave a visual of the songs, Prince didn't always do well with videos: his best in my opinion were the 1982-1986 period with touchs on Glam Slam & I Wish U Heaven, the Batman videos were good, Diamond & Pearls were ok, a lot of hit n misses after that, a lot of videos shot but not released. But his best were the ATWIAD-Parade videos

People can say what they want, ATWIAD would have been a lot bigger if he promod the era, A video for ATWIAD Pop Life/Hello and a few other (when you make a drastic change in sound like that you have to help it along) videos would have been the thing. Raspberry Beret was already a good colorful song, the video (which prince got some kind of award for) gave us another glimps into Prince's world

The power of technology, whereas back in the old days, artists had to do a lot of touring to get recognized. The Jackson 5 is an example of this. I like Prince's "Raspberry Beret" song and video, too , and Madonna, she was at the right place at the right time. Coming from the source, herself, she said that although she cannot sing, she knows how to market herself, to sell it.

Mintchip said:

i think there's something oddly sexist about the (common) claim that madonna has "no talent".

have you ever noticed that male vocalists get away with sounding however they want - in some cases, sounding horrible - whereas female vocalists have to have perfect pitch and a huge range to even have "talent".

Madonna gets compared to Mariah Carey, which would be like comparing Mick Jagger to Sam Cooke, but i've never heard anyone say anything bad about Mick's voice.

She's got a voice. It works for pop music. I think it used to be a really good voice - but then she got a little mannered and artificial.

She writes the songs. Not alone, but then Mick Jagger didn't write alone either.

As for gimmicks - I'm old enough to remember certain statues being floated down the Thames, certain name changes / death notices taking the headlines, certain wardrobe malfunctions. She wasn't alone in the gimmick department. She may have just been a little better at it.

Anyway, "no talent" seems harsh, given the facts.

Mick can't sing, either

robertlove said:

Mintchip said:

i think there's something oddly sexist about the (common) claim that madonna has "no talent".

have you ever noticed that male vocalists get away with sounding however they want - in some cases, sounding horrible - whereas female vocalists have to have perfect pitch and a huge range to even have "talent".

Madonna gets compared to Mariah Carey, which would be like comparing Mick Jagger to Sam Cooke, but i've never heard anyone say anything bad about Mick's voice.

She's got a voice. It works for pop music. I think it used to be a really good voice - but then she got a little mannered and artificial.

She writes the songs. Not alone, but then Mick Jagger didn't write alone either.

As for gimmicks - I'm old enough to remember certain statues being floated down the Thames, certain name changes / death notices taking the headlines, certain wardrobe malfunctions. She wasn't alone in the gimmick department. She may have just been a little better at it.

Anyway, "no talent" seems harsh, given the facts.

And there you have it.

There are lots of male sngers who don't have a good voice or write their own songs, but they never get critized.

But when it comes to women, they don't have talent.

When men sleep around they are the man. When Madonna sleeps around, she's a slut.

when men are aging, they become more interesting, when Madonna ages she's a old hag.

That's going to always be a double standard, when it comes to that department.

Graycap23 said:

'WHEN WILL MADONNA STOP BEING RELEVANT?'

When her fans wake up.

let it go doc, 30yrs into all of this ... lol

again Relevant is not about 'who likes you' only

As I said before: the Catholic church doesn't like her, but they watch her every move ...that makes what she says and does relevant

the more you post in any Madonna thread to say she has not talent, u keep her relevant

OldFriends4Sale said:

Graycap23 said:

'WHEN WILL MADONNA STOP BEING RELEVANT?'

When her fans wake up.

let it go doc, 30yrs into all of this ... lol

again Relevant is not about 'who likes you' only

As I said before: the Catholic church doesn't like her, but they watch her every move ...that makes what she says and does relevant

the more you post in any Madonna thread to say she has not talent, u keep her relevant

I don't know. 1998?

RodeoSchro said:

I don't know. 1998?

1972

CynicKill said:

Playing Devil's Advocate:

Could her mediocrity be the reason why she's still relevant?

"Transformers 2" grossed just short of a billion dollars! That makes Michael Bay an extremely relevant filmmaker. What it doesn't make him is Martin Scorsese, who has never made a movie gross more then 130 million I believe.

This, 100%

She doesn't have a monster talent like Whitney or MJ, which can fade, be abused, or make the artist a slave to an old idea.

What's the point of Whitney without her voice? Can MJ sign up for a long residency and dance like the old days?

The answers are cocaine and demorall, respectively.

I think Prince's downfall was the one man band concept, and the isolation it lead to.

Meanwhile madonna is a lesson in collaboration. There's no there there, so she can hitch her wagon up to anyone with a good sound.

The art is not 100% hers, so the art's able to adapt.

All that, and timing. To be a "dance music" artist in 1983 is to be on the ground floor of a trend that's going to swallow everything else, apparently for decades. Good for her.

Mintchip said:

CynicKill said:

Playing Devil's Advocate:

Could her mediocrity be the reason why she's still relevant?

"Transformers 2" grossed just short of a billion dollars! That makes Michael Bay an extremely relevant filmmaker. What it doesn't make him is Martin Scorsese, who has never made a movie gross more then 130 million I believe.

This, 100%

She doesn't have a monster talent like Whitney or MJ, which can fade, be abused, or make the artist a slave to an old idea.

What's the point of Whitney without her voice? Can MJ sign up for a long residency and dance like the old days?

The answers are cocaine and demorall, respectively.

I think Prince's downfall was the one man band concept, and the isolation it lead to.

Meanwhile madonna is a lesson in collaboration. There's no there there, so she can hitch her wagon up to anyone with a good sound.

The art is not 100% hers, so the art's able to adapt.

All that, and timing. To be a "dance music" artist in 1983 is to be on the ground floor of a trend that's going to swallow everything else, apparently for decades. Good for her.

I wish Prince and Michael were closer in real life. Possibly they could've learned a lot from each other.

Prince's ego was his downfall. The one-man-band concept made him extremely isolated. He needed a little bit of Michael's drive. Not that Prince didn't have drive, but it was an unfocused drive that made him not care about a lot of things, like alienating audiences. And I know I'm gonna get slammed for this but Prince just could've been a smarter individual. I feel further education would've really benefitted prince.

Michael could've learned how to relax and be more down to earth from Prince. Michael was hyper competitive especially with himself. He could've learned how to experiment a little more and just be a grown up and make sophisticated, grown folks music. He also could've learned how not to let his manic fans ruin his life.

CynicKill said:

Mintchip said:

This, 100%

She doesn't have a monster talent like Whitney or MJ, which can fade, be abused, or make the artist a slave to an old idea.

What's the point of Whitney without her voice? Can MJ sign up for a long residency and dance like the old days?

The answers are cocaine and demorall, respectively.

I think Prince's downfall was the one man band concept, and the isolation it lead to.

Meanwhile madonna is a lesson in collaboration. There's no there there, so she can hitch her wagon up to anyone with a good sound.

The art is not 100% hers, so the art's able to adapt.

All that, and timing. To be a "dance music" artist in 1983 is to be on the ground floor of a trend that's going to swallow everything else, apparently for decades. Good for her.

I wish Prince and Michael were closer in real life. Possibly they could've learned a lot from each other.

Prince's ego was his downfall. The one-man-band concept made him extremely isolated. He needed a little bit of Michael's drive. Not that Prince didn't have drive, but it was an unfocused drive that made him not care about a lot of things, like alienating audiences. And I know I'm gonna get slammed for this but Prince just could've been a smarter individual. I feel further education would've really benefitted prince.

Michael could've learned how to relax and be more down to earth from Prince. Michael was hyper competitive especially with himself. He could've learned how to experiment a little more and just be a grown up and make sophisticated, grown folks music. He also could've learned how not to let his manic fans ruin his life.

Well according to Quincy Jones, MJ was kinda leery of Prince because he thought that Prince was trying to put spells on him

CynicKill said:

Mintchip said:

This, 100%

She doesn't have a monster talent like Whitney or MJ, which can fade, be abused, or make the artist a slave to an old idea.

What's the point of Whitney without her voice? Can MJ sign up for a long residency and dance like the old days?

The answers are cocaine and demorall, respectively.

I think Prince's downfall was the one man band concept, and the isolation it lead to.

Meanwhile madonna is a lesson in collaboration. There's no there there, so she can hitch her wagon up to anyone with a good sound.

The art is not 100% hers, so the art's able to adapt.

All that, and timing. To be a "dance music" artist in 1983 is to be on the ground floor of a trend that's going to swallow everything else, apparently for decades. Good for her.

I wish Prince and Michael were closer in real life. Possibly they could've learned a lot from each other.

Pure fantasy. The Ego's would have NEVER allowed it.

YIKES!

Look's like madge is pulling a prince/Axl move on fans...

Friend who is seeing her in Miami said she was 3 hours & 20 minutes.

Wonder what the hold up was.

Gunsnhalen said:

YIKES!

Look's like madge is pulling a prince/Axl move on fans...

Friend who is seeing her in Miami said she was 3 hours & 20 minutes.

Wonder what the hold up was.

She's never late like this, true?

Beautifulstarr123 said:

CynicKill said:

I wish Prince and Michael were closer in real life. Possibly they could've learned a lot from each other.

Prince's ego was his downfall. The one-man-band concept made him extremely isolated. He needed a little bit of Michael's drive. Not that Prince didn't have drive, but it was an unfocused drive that made him not care about a lot of things, like alienating audiences. And I know I'm gonna get slammed for this but Prince just could've been a smarter individual. I feel further education would've really benefitted prince.

Michael could've learned how to relax and be more down to earth from Prince. Michael was hyper competitive especially with himself. He could've learned how to experiment a little more and just be a grown up and make sophisticated, grown folks music. He also could've learned how not to let his manic fans ruin his life.

Well according to Quincy Jones, MJ was kinda leery of Prince because he thought that Prince was trying to put spells on him

LOL I read a few things about this, especially when they did hang out and Prince gave Michael a gift of things that felt occultish to Mike, he got scared

But Mike was into that stuff

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

YIKES!

Look's like madge is pulling a prince/Axl move on fans...

Friend who is seeing her in Miami said she was 3 hours & 20 minutes.

Wonder what the hold up was.

She's never late like this, true?

Yeah, it is indeed true.

Idk what the issue was but he said it was a pretty good show.

Gunsnhalen said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

She's never late like this, true?

Yeah, it is indeed true.

Idk what the issue was but he said it was a pretty good show.

Well, that's good

OldFriends4Sale said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Well according to Quincy Jones, MJ was kinda leery of Prince because he thought that Prince was trying to put spells on him

LOL I read a few things about this, especially when they did hang out and Prince gave Michael a gift of things that felt occultish to Mike, he got scared

But Mike was into that stuff

Yeah, that's what I read

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