Considering Simon's recent comments on Gaga and Beyonce, I think L.A. and Simon are trying to be sensational to garner more interest in their new show. L.A. knows better.

tricky99 said:

Besides not having an Iconic movie, being able to sing, play guiter, play drums, play the bass, play the piano, dance, write music without samples, create spin-off groups using songs all written by him, create music in multiple genres, release several multi-cd song collections, create songs that have been covered by many people, and play arenas followed by small club sets on the same night they are exactly on the same level.

Haha!

And there it is.

Wow L.A. Reid.

Musicslave said:

Considering Simon's recent comments on Gaga and Beyonce, I think L.A. and Simon are trying to be sensational to garner more interest in their new show. L.A. knows better.

Simon has said not so nice things about Beyonce in the past openly. His said she was overrated etc. But thing about that is.. its TRUE.lol

I just dont get all these comparisions to all the greats. Why cant they just be good at what they do? Why do they have to make ridiculous comparisions that are just dumb?

He's on Prince's level in terms of STARPOWER and RECORD SALES, and that's probably all LA Reid was thinking of when he said that. Obviously Kanye has zero talent as a musician, rapper or performer, but he is an ICON to a generation despite his obvious lack of ability because people can FEEL him. They can relate to him and at the end of the day that is enough.

funksterr said:

He's on Prince's level in terms of STARPOWER and RECORD SALES, and that's probably all LA Reid was thinking of when he said that. Obviously Kanye has zero talent as a musician, rapper or performer, but he is an ICON to a generation despite his obvious lack of ability because people can FEEL him. They can relate to him and at the end of the day that is enough.

[img:$uid]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f93/amadeus59/scan0014.jpg[/img:$uid]

There's no elevator that will ever go high enough to ever take Kanye to Prince's level!

Kanye cannot see prince in any category, Prince is in million times more talented , Stupid comparsion.....

ManlyMoose said:

The1592 said:

Really?! Greatest rapper, maybe. But greatest musician?? Entertainer?? wow.

[Edited 9/29/11 11:21am]

Its even worse when you realize that hes not close to greatest rapper either. Switch out the musician part for producer and its kinda correct.

He is not the best musician, performer, rapper or producer! A better producer than Battlecat, DJ Quik, Fredwreck?!?! NO WAY!

[Edited 10/1/11 13:32pm]

Handel said:

funksterr said:

He's on Prince's level in terms of STARPOWER and RECORD SALES, and that's probably all LA Reid was thinking of when he said that. Obviously Kanye has zero talent as a musician, rapper or performer, but he is an ICON to a generation despite his obvious lack of ability because people can FEEL him. They can relate to him and at the end of the day that is enough.

[img:$uid]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f93/amadeus59/scan0014.jpg[/img:$uid]

Well reasoned argument.

HonestMan13 said:

There's no elevator that will ever go high enough to ever take Kanye to Prince's level!

Unholyalliance said:

I know I'm going to get a shitload of flack for this, but I will be honest. Sometimes...when I listen to Prince's albums, it frustrates me, because I hear an awesome idea...but it just seems as if they were not fleshed out enough. A lot of it sound like incomplete ideas to me that really could have been awesome had he taken the time to actually work on them some more. They end up being forgettable. I'm also not that huge on lyrics (as long as they are not overly ridiculous) so hearing songs about jacking each other off or Nikki masturbating with a magazine they don't really have an affect on me where I think it's so shocking for an artist to sing about such things. So, when I do manage to get through an album and find a very strong song I like, coincidentally, it just so happened to be a single at the time the album was released. Before I was only aware of a few Prince songs & Purple Rain (the movie), so after being here I took the time to really collect his albums and listen to them with a keen ear. I have never heard of them prior so it's not as if I was going in with biased ears you know?

I understand having themes for an album, but in Purple Rain I think that the album sounds really cohesive and has a very strong theme. There I think a good amount of the songs on it sound as if they have their own personalities. When I go through the album I don't feel as if I listened to the same song for over an entire hour. That includes 1999 and Prince(1979) as well. For something like, Sign O' The Times...I think that's when I started to notice that a lot of Prince albums seemed to be following suit. (I do think that he has really improved a lot as a musician though as as I have gone through some of his work in the 2000s.) Some people like that...and that's ok too. It's just that I don't hold something like that in higher esteem when there are a lot of other artists/albums who don't so such things.

hmm I remember thinking exactly the same that some of the albums could've been built on more but when I look at the ones that are flawless, the ones that I particulary think strong, it made me think about the way I rate his studio albums. I think one of the main reasons why some of the songs are forgettable is that there are too many albums/songs of his that no matter how hard we try not to be biased, we can't help selecting a few that stands out the most. For example, when fans say some of Prince’s recent albums have been rather unlistenable, I’ve noticed that fans tend to compare those albums to his WB era albums, and not to current albums by other artists. So in a way, when they say “Planet Earth” is garbage, they’re saying that it’s not nearly as good as 1999 or any other “good” ablums from the 80’s by Prince. Not only do I disagree with this statement but I find the comparison unfair. As the mainstream and popular music changed I think Prince’s been constantly experimenting with music and new sounds and for 21^st century albums I think Rainbow Children, Planet Earth, and Musicology really show that. (To be honest I’ve found Purple Rain to be a bit overrated as I got to listen to his other albums. Same goes for 1999, Prince and ATWIAD.) When I take his studio album work as a whole, I'd definitely say he's one of the very few artists who's able to successfully deliver and present his ideas.

And about the lyrics, I've come to really appreciate most his lyrics (even Darling Nikki because I love the fact that he took that risk during the early 80's as a pop musician). This again goes back to Prince having too many songs. I honestly think he's very unappreciated as a lyricist because most of his songs that have great lyrics happen to be not so popular and a lot of the obvious favorable ones happen to be linked with sex. I think Prince is exceptionally good at making spiritual songs being anti-war, without having overarching anti-war theme. When I take Kanye as a songwriter, I often find him too bold and direct in other words...too plain and predictable.

I don't feel this way with Kanye's albums and, especially, his latest one. I find his work to be way more 'fleshed out' and this includes the songs that I may not be particularly fond of as well. He's not really that great of a rapper either, but I enjoy his approach to the subject matter that he presents and how he goes about executing it. I remember hearing College Dropout when it first came out and was really impressed by it, especially after having abadoned rap/hip hop during the rise of Jay Z in the late 90s.

For Kanye, I’ve personally found it’s possible to “predict” how the song is going to end, if I heard the beginning of the song. Most of his songs I’ve listened to so far, follow the same pattern which is “if it starts with loud and bold sound, that’s how it’s going to end”. I been struggling to find the “climax” moment or that fresh turnaround moment throughout his songs, as far as the melody and the beat goes, because the song stays exactly the way it began till the end. No matter how good he is at presenting his views through lyrics, I still found most of the songs to be a bit boring, especially compared to Prince's for that reason. I do think there were some exceptions especially with MBDTF album though.

At the end of the day, I believe that no matter how gifted and talented an artist is, what I put more worth in is the end product, because it's something I have to dedicate my time listening to. Also, it's something that I will end up spending my money on. Concerts come and go and they may, forever, live in your memory. Yet my playlist can't access those fleeting memories when I'm doing something and I need music to listen to.

That being said, anyone can get mad all they want to, but it's not going to change my opinion whether one finds it to be shitty, full of shit, or whatever. At the end of the day it's subjective, because that's the nature of art.

[Edited 9/30/11 23:28pm]

I agree completely. Just one last thing…I’m not trying to be rude but what made you sign up for Prince.org? I’m just curious..

[Edited 10/1/11 16:20pm]

People are still actually entertaining this shit L.A said.

Fuck it. I'm all in on college football and the NFL this weekend.

Beer and Bratwurst.

tricky99 said:

Besides not having an Iconic movie, being able to sing, play guiter, play drums, play the bass, play the piano, dance, write music without samples, create spin-off groups using songs all written by him, create music in multiple genres, release several multi-cd song collections, create songs that have been covered by many people, and play arenas followed by small club sets on the same night they are exactly on the same level.

Militant said:

LA Reid is wrong. Kanye dope tho. But Prince level? Nah. Nowhere near.

what about kanye is dope? la reid has lost his mind. kanye is a douche bag who has done a few nice tracks for hmself and a few others... he's barely any good , he's nothing approaching great. he couldn't shine prince's shoes. la reid should fuck off with that nonsense. bleh!

tricky99 said:

Besides not having an Iconic movie, being able to sing, play guiter, play drums, play the bass, play the piano, dance, write music without samples, create spin-off groups using songs all written by him, create music in multiple genres, release several multi-cd song collections, create songs that have been covered by many people, and play arenas followed by small club sets on the same night they are exactly on the same level.

..You forgot that he also created an entire new sound- The minneapolis sound

tricky99 said:

Besides not having an Iconic movie, being able to sing, play guiter, play drums, play the bass, play the piano, dance, write music without samples, create spin-off groups using songs all written by him, create music in multiple genres, release several multi-cd song collections, create songs that have been covered by many people, and play arenas followed by small club sets on the same night they are exactly on the same level.

Emancipation89 said:

hmm I remember thinking exactly the same that some of the albums could've been built on more but when I look at the ones that are flawless, the ones that I particulary think strong, it made me think about the way I rate his studio albums. I think one of the main reasons why some of the songs are forgettable is that there are too many albums/songs of his that no matter how hard we try not to be biased, we can't help selecting a few that stands out the most.

I think that's inevitable no matter what album we listen to, even our most favorite ones. Even so, there are albums where I don't mind listening to the entire thing at all.

Example, when I present my work...I only show the best that I have rather than everything I ever did in my life. Your best pieces make a much higher impact than just squeezing in as much as you can. Adding weaker ones to the mix just makes them forgettable or makes the better ones stand out even more, especially when they are next to something that is much better. That is what happens. It's inevitable.

Emancipation89 said:

For example, when fans say some of Prince’s recent albums have been rather unlistenable, I’ve noticed that fans tend to compare those albums to his WB era albums, and not to current albums by other artists. So in a way, when they say “Planet Earth” is garbage, they’re saying that it’s not nearly as good as 1999 or any other “good” ablums from the 80’s by Prince. Not only do I disagree with this statement but I find the comparison unfair. As the mainstream and popular music changed I think Prince’s been constantly experimenting with music and new sounds and for 21^st century albums I think Rainbow Children, Planet Earth, and Musicology really show that. (To be honest I’ve found Purple Rain to be a bit overrated as I got to listen to his other albums. Same goes for 1999, Prince and ATWIAD.) When I take his studio album work as a whole, I'd definitely say he's one of the very few artists who's able to successfully deliver and present his ideas.

I agree with the bolded. I think that people are responding with nostalgia goggles rather than, actually, listening to the music.

I don't know about the italicized as much though. I guess I still need to go through more of them, so far I have 20TEN, Musicology, The Rainbw Children, & 3121 as far as I can remember. It just sounds like Prince's music. It could be his style that he hasn't deviated from since forever as I can, immediately, tell whenever one of his songs pop up. Maybe I came in too late?! I don't know.

Emancipation89 said:

And about the lyrics, I've come to really appreciate most his lyrics (even Darling Nikki because I love the fact that he took that risk during the early 80's as a pop musician). This again goes back to Prince having too many songs. I honestly think he's very unappreciated as a lyricist because most of his songs that have great lyrics happen to be not so popular and a lot of the obvious favorable ones happen to be linked with sex. I think Prince is exceptionally good at making spiritual songs being anti-war, without having overarching anti-war theme. When I take Kanye as a songwriter, I often find him too bold and direct in other words...too plain and predictable.

I'm not that big into lyrics so I have no strong opinion about them. =/ I do like storytelling, irony, and metaphors though, but they are not really that important. Singing (especially on key) to me, is the most important. In rap it's the delivery. I don't need something to be so deep. Delievery is key I think. The only time that you can have a sort of passable singer is when the music doesn't call for real serious vocal delivery.

Emancipation89 said:

For Kanye, I’ve personally found it’s possible to “predict” how the song is going to end, if I heard the beginning of the song. Most of his songs I’ve listened to so far, follow the same pattern which is “if it starts with loud and bold sound, that’s how it’s going to end”. I been struggling to find the “climax” moment or that fresh turnaround moment throughout his songs, as far as the melody and the beat goes, because the song stays exactly the way it began till the end. No matter how good he is at presenting his views through lyrics, I still found most of the songs to be a bit boring, especially compared to Prince's for that reason. I do think there were some exceptions especially with MBDTF album though.

Even so, I think I would still rather take an entire album of decent predictable songs like that rather than an entire album of more misses than hits that seem to be taking more risks. It would be nice to be able to take risks and still have them be listenable, but alas, that is not the case imo. Maybe as a musician I would appreciate the latter, but as a consumer going to spend money? Nope. I think that The Beatles Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club is an instance where there are good experimental songs that I enjoy listening to.

That being said, I do agree that Prince's best songs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kanye's best songs though.

Emancipation89 said:

I agree completely. Just one last thing…I’m not trying to be rude but what made you sign up for Prince.org? I’m just curious..

[Edited 10/1/11 16:20pm]

As I stated earlier, I like the posters here and I rather enjoy the music discussions in this subforum. That is why I'm really here. Out of all the music forums I have lurked on this one is the most knowledgable when it comes to r&b and all of its related genres & sub-genres. It's also nice to be somewhere that's not so overtly racist or full of annoying children/hipsters. I also find Prince entertaining and do check up on any Prince related news just to see what he's up to every so often.

HermesReborn said:

I gotta disagree here respectfully.

On a real basis?

It's Apples and Oranges.

Could Prince do what Kanye does?

Probably not

Can Kanye do what Prince does?

No.

I agree.

So when it comes to the end work, perhaps I have higher standards then you.

Maybe you do. Maybe you don't.

I actually thought that stuff like that was considered to be subjective. Especially since I never accused anyone of having inferior taste to mine either. If people disagree with me then that's quite all right. I mean there are a lot of really talented artists/groups out there, but it doesn't mean that they all make good albums though. I think that Prince has a quality control issue while Kanye and many other artists out there do not. Does that mean that your tastes are superior to mine based on that opinion? In all honesty, I kind of doubt it... I can easily argue the opposite of your statement, but I'm not going to do so, because I don't believe in that line of thinking. I find those sorts arguments elitist and ridiculous. Especially when it can be easily argued that both of them make equally shitty music as well.

And the sheer fact that it's ALOT easier to make good music these days then it was in the 80's is something you have to compensate for that.

Wasn't it easier to make better music in the 70s than it was in the 80s and so forth? I mean, hell even the Beatles were still able to make music in the 60s and they weren't even the most amazing instrumentalists/singers ever. I do agree that technology is making it much easier and in the 80s Prince was still using the technology of his era too right? Kanye is using the technology of his era and has managed to stand miles apart from his peers doing so...I don't really get at what you trying to argue here...

But Prince peaked in a world, where technology did not overshadow talent.

Where you had to write and compose a good song, to be heard.

Prince also peaked in a world where the visual side of music as well as crazy ass antice were taking front and center stage as if I remember correctly. Writing and composing a good song to be heard has never really stopped being important I think...even if priorities and tastes in music have changed.

But if he wants to be Prince, he's gonna have to pick up a guitar and start writing songs not raps.

This may be a little presumptious of me, but I think that Kanye just wants to be Kanye rather than Prince. Otherwise he would be like that Dream dude...

Kanye is at his post-SOTT phase then. Will it be "all down hill" from here?

Mong said:

LA Reid is one dumb cunt.

This will probably only inflate Kanye´s massive ego even more and prompt Prince to come up with some pseudo-Kanye West-style album, like back in 2001 when he emulated D´Angelo who emulated Prince.

Dear LA,

Don't eat or drink the water at Whitney's house. Even residual crack kills brain cells....

PS I respect Kanye for doing Kanye, which he is good at, but as for being near Prince, Michael, heck dude ain't even touching El DeBarge.....

Unholyalliance said:

HermesReborn said:

I gotta disagree here respectfully.

On a real basis?

It's Apples and Oranges.

Could Prince do what Kanye does?

Probably not

Can Kanye do what Prince does?

No.

I agree.

Prince also peaked in a world where the visual side of music as well as crazy ass antice were taking front and center stage as if I remember correctly. Writing and composing a good song to be heard has never really stopped being important I think...even if priorities and tastes in music have changed.

But if he wants to be Prince, he's gonna have to pick up a guitar and start writing songs not raps.

This may be a little presumptious of me, but I think that Kanye just wants to be Kanye rather than Prince. Otherwise he would be like that Dream dude...

The difference is that musical technological advances have reached a singularity in music now.

In the 80's these technologies where just additional colors or tools in the musical make-up.

They have exceeded themselves as tools,

computers replace instruments.

And it is so so so so easy to make "music."

It's a Drag and Drop, Copy & Paste industry now.

and Kanye is the King

HermesReborn said:

Unholyalliance said:

This may be a little presumptious of me, but I think that Kanye just wants to be Kanye rather than Prince. Otherwise he would be like that Dream dude...

The difference is that musical technological advances have reached a singularity in music now.

In the 80's these technologies where just additional colors or tools in the musical make-up.

They have exceeded themselves as tools,

computers replace instruments.

And it is so so so so easy to make "music."

It's a Drag and Drop, Copy & Paste industry now.

and Kanye is the King

To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with the new way of making music.

Stevie Wonder's not even on Prince's level, sheesh.

2freaky4church1 said:

Stevie Wonder's not even on Prince's level, sheesh.

The only person who's even close to Prince in terms of musical skill is James Brown and even then it's a stretch!

smoothcriminal12 said:

HermesReborn said:

The difference is that musical technological advances have reached a singularity in music now.

In the 80's these technologies where just additional colors or tools in the musical make-up.

They have exceeded themselves as tools,

computers replace instruments.

And it is so so so so easy to make "music."

It's a Drag and Drop, Copy & Paste industry now.

and Kanye is the King

To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with the new way of making music.

And its that type of mentality thats ruining the industry.

Technology should only be used as a tool,

not a total compensation for talent.

What people don't know is, in this New Way of making music,

You actually lose your chops and talent then flex them.

I did the Beat making game for a year.

Made a lot of money... (cause there is money to be made in that game)

But in the long run I found out that my musical chops diminished drastically...

I couldn't play as well as I did, before.

Simply because I'd quantize everything, align everything.

And the computer does all the magic.

I could make a Beat in 20 minutes.

But when it comes to performing, and musical chops, I could barely last 2 minutes without making errors

Thats when I knew, I couldn't sacrifice my musicality and chops for money.

Went back through the normal avenues of production.

Simply because there is more outside the box creativity...

But I'm not completely anti Technology,

The key is bridging the gap

Turning the technology back into a tool rather than an compensation for lack of creativity and talent.

Instead of submitting yourself to stock loops, you create your own loops and samples.

Sampling your own music.

Thats something I learned from Prince!

I'd like to givr L.A. Reid the benefit of the doubt in that he didn't think before he spoke otherwise he must of had the WRONG kool aide." />