mozfonky said:

the terence thing would be bad if true. I loved terence and considered him in the same league as an artist. However, I honestly thought there were more factors. The market was changing, Terence was still toying around with prince and Mj's 80's stuff in an era where hip-hop and grunge were taking over. And Terence cannot blame anyone but himself for the miscalculation of his second album. I loved it but it was too premature to make a concept album, and his mouth didn't help him a bit. I honestly think it was more due to timing that TTD did not do more, he was really about 5 years too late.

I love the second album too. I always thought it was because the media became negative towards him after some of his comments and the direction he took in his music

bboy87 said:

mozfonky said:

the terence thing would be bad if true. I loved terence and considered him in the same league as an artist. However, I honestly thought there were more factors. The market was changing, Terence was still toying around with prince and Mj's 80's stuff in an era where hip-hop and grunge were taking over. And Terence cannot blame anyone but himself for the miscalculation of his second album. I loved it but it was too premature to make a concept album, and his mouth didn't help him a bit. I honestly think it was more due to timing that TTD did not do more, he was really about 5 years too late.

I love the second album too. I always thought it was because the media became negative towards him after some of his comments and the direction he took in his music

Well he did compare himself to the Beatles so yeah.

armpit said:

NaughtyKitty said:

Since there was discussion about MJ, PM and the Beatles catalog, I found this from an article on John Branca:

Laughable.

So because a journalist wrote that, I'm supposed to buy it?

I go based on what McCartney himself, did and said, not what a random writer typed up about it, probably as spin at the demand of some PR guy. Paul himself was (understandably) bothered enough by it that he actually mentioned the whole thing publically (which is almost unheard of, for one artist to bring up something like this involving another in the public domain), and after it happened he and MJ never worked together in a professional capacity again, and definitely weren't seen hanging out together anywhere, so 'remained friends', my ass.

I'm a fan too, but I hate it when other fans try to make excuses for shitty behavior on MJ's part. Yes, sometimes MJ was an asshole too. Deal with it. Even Liz Taylor said in the HIStory booklet that MJ was 'cunning'.

Paul didn't really make any statement until '87 so he and Michael were still friends like I said earlier, it wasn't until Michael started licensing the songs out that things got bad

screen cap from my first movie.

In this small scene, MOONWALKER and my movie COLLIDES!

The media always inaccurately pointed out how things went bad for Michael and Paul. It definitely wasn't 1985 as they think it was.

Nvncible1 said:

screen cap from my first movie.

In this small scene, MOONWALKER and my movie COLLIDES!

Real cool man.

MJ probably thought that Springsteen wasn't that good of a singer. Probably thought he screamed too much. I think he was a fan of Phil Collins. He found his voice soulful. I agree with all of this.

Maybe MJ did think that but Prince, MJ and Bruce were all great and they were my musical trinity growing up.

bboy87 said:

mozfonky said:

the terence thing would be bad if true. I loved terence and considered him in the same league as an artist. However, I honestly thought there were more factors. The market was changing, Terence was still toying around with prince and Mj's 80's stuff in an era where hip-hop and grunge were taking over. And Terence cannot blame anyone but himself for the miscalculation of his second album. I loved it but it was too premature to make a concept album, and his mouth didn't help him a bit. I honestly think it was more due to timing that TTD did not do more, he was really about 5 years too late.

I love the second album too. I always thought it was because the media became negative towards him after some of his comments and the direction he took in his music

well, i remember here in the states he got decent reviews but the second album was not the masterpiece he believed it was. That wouldn't come until the brilliant Symphony Or Damn which deserved kudos, critics came on themselves for it and still no one bought it.

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

I love the second album too. I always thought it was because the media became negative towards him after some of his comments and the direction he took in his music

Well he did compare himself to the Beatles so yeah.

I was trying to find BBC's version of I Love The 80s on Youtube but it was deleted

In the 1987 episode, they talked about TTD and how the public embraced him......then turned on him by the second album. People REALLY didn't appreciate some of the comments he made The backlash resulted in his second album not doing well, although it was a strong album

If Michael had a problem with a fellow CBS artist, it would've been George Michael. CBS' focus in '88 was mostly on those 2 guys and Faith almost tied Bad's records for #1 singles (Kissing The Fool peaked at #5 and I Want Your Sex reached #2). Bad had 5 #1s and Faith had 4 and was a HUGE seller

Nvncible1 said:

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Nvncible1/MJ2.jpg[/img:$uid]

I don't see my check in the mail

sends cease and desist letter

mozfonky said:

bboy87 said:

I love the second album too. I always thought it was because the media became negative towards him after some of his comments and the direction he took in his music

well, i remember here in the states he got decent reviews but the second album was not the masterpiece he believed it was. That wouldn't come until the brilliant Symphony Or Damn which deserved kudos, critics came on themselves for it and still no one bought it.

SOD was another strong album and didn't get the recognition it deserves

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

Well he did compare himself to the Beatles so yeah.

I was trying to find BBC's version of I Love The 80s on Youtube but it was deleted

In the 1987 episode, they talked about TTD and how the public embraced him......then turned on him by the second album. People REALLY didn't appreciate some of the comments he made The backlash resulted in his second album not doing well, although it was a strong album

If Michael had a problem with a fellow CBS artist, it would've been George Michael. CBS' focus in '88 was mostly on those 2 guys and Faith almost tied Bad's records for #1 singles (Kissing The Fool peaked at #5 and I Want Your Sex reached #2). Bad had 5 #1s and Faith had 4 and was a HUGE seller

I figured he'd have more of a problem with George.

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

Well he did compare himself to the Beatles so yeah.

I was trying to find BBC's version of I Love The 80s on Youtube but it was deleted

In the 1987 episode, they talked about TTD and how the public embraced him......then turned on him by the second album. People REALLY didn't appreciate some of the comments he made The backlash resulted in his second album not doing well, although it was a strong album

If Michael had a problem with a fellow CBS artist, it would've been George Michael. CBS' focus in '88 was mostly on those 2 guys and Faith almost tied Bad's records for #1 singles (Kissing The Fool peaked at #5 and I Want Your Sex reached #2). Bad had 5 #1s and Faith had 4 and was a HUGE seller

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

Well he did compare himself to the Beatles so yeah.

I was trying to find BBC's version of I Love The 80s on Youtube but it was deleted

In the 1987 episode, they talked about TTD and how the public embraced him......then turned on him by the second album. People REALLY didn't appreciate some of the comments he made The backlash resulted in his second album not doing well, although it was a strong album

If Michael had a problem with a fellow CBS artist, it would've been George Michael. CBS' focus in '88 was mostly on those 2 guys and Faith almost tied Bad's records for #1 singles (Kissing The Fool peaked at #5 and I Want Your Sex reached #2). Bad had 5 #1s and Faith had 4 and was a HUGE seller

ya i've seen a vh1 version of the same thing, they said his mouth ruined it. I think it's partly true. being the boxing buff TTD and I are, I recognize the Ali school of promotion when I see it, but what makes people come to a fight and hope for you to get killed is different than what makes people buy your album. He never understood that but i still love him and feel like he's a forgotten talent. I went to his Myspace after MJ died just to thank him for still being alive.

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

I was trying to find BBC's version of I Love The 80s on Youtube but it was deleted

In the 1987 episode, they talked about TTD and how the public embraced him......then turned on him by the second album. People REALLY didn't appreciate some of the comments he made The backlash resulted in his second album not doing well, although it was a strong album

If Michael had a problem with a fellow CBS artist, it would've been George Michael. CBS' focus in '88 was mostly on those 2 guys and Faith almost tied Bad's records for #1 singles (Kissing The Fool peaked at #5 and I Want Your Sex reached #2). Bad had 5 #1s and Faith had 4 and was a HUGE seller

I figured he'd have more of a problem with George.

George is another major star of the 80s who didn't have a clue about how to adapt in the new world of the 90's. "Listen Without Prejudice" didn't sell that well and the type of marketing he used, that narcissistic shit where he's looking all squinchy eyed was all wrong for the nineties, that backlash of grunge was a reaction against all that superficial shit, the milli vanilli's, the new kids on the block, and all of it. George still does the same type of posing as he did in the eighties, you know, it's common for these guys to get stuck in a time warp. Hell, michael had jheri curls when people were cutting their names into their scalps. He should have put "King of Pop" around the back of his head, maybe work in the burn a little to show how he sacrificed.

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

I was trying to find BBC's version of I Love The 80s on Youtube but it was deleted

In the 1987 episode, they talked about TTD and how the public embraced him......then turned on him by the second album. People REALLY didn't appreciate some of the comments he made The backlash resulted in his second album not doing well, although it was a strong album

If Michael had a problem with a fellow CBS artist, it would've been George Michael. CBS' focus in '88 was mostly on those 2 guys and Faith almost tied Bad's records for #1 singles (Kissing The Fool peaked at #5 and I Want Your Sex reached #2). Bad had 5 #1s and Faith had 4 and was a HUGE seller

I figured he'd have more of a problem with George.

Exactly. When I read TTD's essay about Hardline (which I need to read again), I thought "Could it have been George?" that was threatened with Terence's promotion

Faith was HUGE in '87-89. George may have abandoned that attitude when Listen Without Prejudice came out, but he was all about success back then and CBS promoted Faith with guns blazing. The Faith tour started before the album even came out

Michael's main competition on CBS was George (the media hinted at a minor fued between them, kinda like they did with Michael and Prince) so if Michael couldn't stop CBS from promoting Faith, how did he stop them from promoting Neither Fish Nor Flesh

this is interesting, I'm gonna do some digging

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

I figured he'd have more of a problem with George.

Exactly. When I read TTD's essay about Hardline (which I need to read again), I thought "Could it have been George?" that was threatened with Terence's promotion

Faith was HUGE in '87-89. George may have abandoned that attitude when Listen Without Prejudice came out, but he was all about success back then and CBS promoted Faith with guns blazing. The Faith tour started before the album even came out

Michael's main competition on CBS was George (the media hinted at a minor fued between them, kinda like they did with Michael and Prince) so if Michael couldn't stop CBS from promoting Faith, how did he stop them from promoting Neither Fish Nor Flesh

this is interesting, I'm gonna do some digging

Because The Hardline According To... was not a Bad nor a Faith. And Neither Fish Nor Flesh wasn't commercial anyways. No amount of promotion could make that album succeed.

smoothcriminal12 said:

bboy87 said:

Exactly. When I read TTD's essay about Hardline (which I need to read again), I thought "Could it have been George?" that was threatened with Terence's promotion

Faith was HUGE in '87-89. George may have abandoned that attitude when Listen Without Prejudice came out, but he was all about success back then and CBS promoted Faith with guns blazing. The Faith tour started before the album even came out

Michael's main competition on CBS was George (the media hinted at a minor fued between them, kinda like they did with Michael and Prince) so if Michael couldn't stop CBS from promoting Faith, how did he stop them from promoting Neither Fish Nor Flesh

this is interesting, I'm gonna do some digging

Because The Hardline According To... was not a Bad nor a Faith. And Neither Fish Nor Flesh wasn't commercial anyways. No amount of promotion could make that album succeed.

that's how I remembered it too, but it ain't really true, there are some great potential singles on that album I think. I mean, not all the whales and shit but Roly Poly, To Know someone Softly, and the "hold back" one, forgot the title.

I also recall that George Michael admitted that he was "worried for a minute there" about TTD but that the second album relieved him. Whether he had the clout to stop anyone's sales and how they would benefit a record company in any way would be doubtful.

mozfonky said:

I also recall that George Michael admitted that he was "worried for a minute there" about TTD but that the second album relieved him. Whether he had the clout to stop anyone's sales and how they would benefit a record company in any way would be doubtful.

Damn, that's cold

George was really on a roll in '87-89. Michael was still Michael, Prince was still Prince but you had George who was still riding high from Wham! and you had Terence who seemed to pop out of nowhere

and CBS had 3 of these acts signed to their label! They were riding high in that period. They also had Bros, who had the biggest UK debut ever at the time and Springsteen. Now that's what you call a roster

bboy87 said:

mozfonky said:

I also recall that George Michael admitted that he was "worried for a minute there" about TTD but that the second album relieved him. Whether he had the clout to stop anyone's sales and how they would benefit a record company in any way would be doubtful.

Damn, that's cold

George was really on a roll in '87-89. Michael was still Michael, Prince was still Prince but you had George who was still riding high from Wham! and you had Terence who seemed to pop out of nowhere

and CBS had 3 of these acts signed to their label! They were riding high in that period. They also had Bros, who had the biggest UK debut ever at the time and Springsteen. Now that's what you call a roster

ya, I followed George's career during that time closely, was a fan, didn't think he was as bad as the critics said. Recognized that he was gifted as a songwriter and was more than competent as a singer. Of course the guys he mainly ripped off in my opinion, Michael and Prince were way out of his league in terms of artistry. I've said it a million times and I'll say it again, there is always a glut of talent out their, means little. Artistry is what lasts, I don't think anyone gives a whole lot of thought to George anymore.

mozfonky said:

I also recall that George Michael admitted that he was "worried for a minute there" about TTD but that the second album relieved him. Whether he had the clout to stop anyone's sales and how they would benefit a record company in any way would be doubtful.

bboy87 said:

Nvncible1 said:

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Nvncible1/MJ2.jpg[/img:$uid]

I don't see my check in the mail

sends cease and desist letter

Anybbody have any news regarding the bad tour 88 dvd that is suppose to be coming out next year??

rsggamer said:

Anybbody have any news regarding the bad tour 88 dvd that is suppose to be coming out next year??

i havent heard anything, but im SOO excited for it.. i think they should release alot of footage from various tours..i think we should get a victory tour dvd,one of the tokyo(black shirt) bad tour dvd,bad tour Wembley of coarse,and most if not ALL the this is it footage..

but of coarse most of this will never happen, but thats what i wish, lol

Alright, I'ma say this only once.

First off, that tribute concert is nothing more than an attempt to generate some support for Michael, considering that the trial is coming closer. Frankly, I'm quite happy with the wealth of material Michael released (and the stuff that wasn't released will eventually leak or be released), his musical legacy does not need some lame-ass show that'll just embarass the family further. If I wan't to see MJ impersonators, I personally know five on my facebook.

The whole "Michael bought the Beatles catalogue" thing, guys get the fuck over it. Unscrupoulous? Really? Business is business. As others have said, Paul could've easily outbid Michael for those songs, but he didn't. Frankly, in the beginning, I did have misgivings about Michael owning the catalogue, but I figured I'd rather have those songs in his hands rather than in Ono's. I think we can all agree it's for the best.

armpit said:

Every time I see his kids there's always a couple seconds there where I get really confused, because they're so big now and it seems like it was just yesterday that their births were announced.

Everytime I see Prince,I find myself thinking.. "He looks so familiar". I just don't know why,I don't think it's because I think he resembles Michael,there is just something familiar about him.

^ Arnold! It's Arnold Klein!!!!