LittleBLUECorvette said:

musicjunky318 said:

Which was stupid. Two different groups.

I was thinking about writing them to complain about that.

I wouldn't call the them two different groups. They all incuded the same members at one time or another.

5 brothers plus Randy joins in 72.

Jermaine leaves in 75, which leaves 5 brothers again.

Jermaine re-joins in 83 making the band a total of six again.

Yeah they were still the Jackson 5 technically but their battle with Motown was the reason they had to change their name. Plus their music was different because they wanted to get away from the "teenybopper" tag.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I wouldn't call the them two different groups. They all incuded the same members at one time or another.

5 brothers plus Randy joins in 72.

Jermaine leaves in 75, which leaves 5 brothers again.

Jermaine re-joins in 83 making the band a total of six again.

Yeah they were still the Jackson 5 technically but their battle with Motown was the reason they had to change their name. Plus their music was different because they wanted to get away from the "teenybopper" tag.

True, but they were still the same group, same members and everything. I think Randy should have been inducted.

It's not like the got some new members to take there spot, they basically just changed labels and had freedom to write.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah they were still the Jackson 5 technically but their battle with Motown was the reason they had to change their name. Plus their music was different because they wanted to get away from the "teenybopper" tag.

True, but they were still the same group, same members and everything. I think Randy should have been inducted.

It's not like the got some new members to take there spot, they basically just changed labels and had freedom to write.

But that's always been my issue with the Hall of Fame. Only six Temptations are inducted, only three Supremes are inducted, and the fact they can't induct Randy just shortens it. People will think "well Dennis was already with the group 25 years by the time they inducted the group" but Dennis had been associated with the group for 21 years by that point, same amount of years for Randy. It's kinda stupid to be honest with you.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

True, but they were still the same group, same members and everything. I think Randy should have been inducted.

It's not like the got some new members to take there spot, they basically just changed labels and had freedom to write.

But that's always been my issue with the Hall of Fame. Only six Temptations are inducted, only three Supremes are inducted, and the fact they can't induct Randy just shortens it. People will think "well Dennis was already with the group 25 years by the time they inducted the group" but Dennis had been associated with the group for 21 years by that point, same amount of years for Randy. It's kinda stupid to be honest with you.

Agree, the Rock Hall does weird things. They inducted Jerry Butler as part of the Impressions. YEah he started the Impressionsbut was only with them for what two years, (same with the Brooks brothers.) But what about the members after Curtis left, no mention of them in thr hall.

zhare said:

dag said:

[img:$uid]http://img200.i.../img:$uid]
[img:$uid]http://img842.i.../img:$uid]

Love em

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah they were still the Jackson 5 technically but their battle with Motown was the reason they had to change their name. Plus their music was different because they wanted to get away from the "teenybopper" tag.

True, but they were still the same group, same members and everything. I think Randy should have been inducted.

It's not like the got some new members to take there spot, they basically just changed labels and had freedom to write.

Technically Jermaine didn't join "The Jacksons" until nearly 8 years after they became "The Jacksons" . And "The Jackson 5" were prohibited from writing and producing there own music, and not even allowed 2 play instruments on the records (only during live performances), As For "The Jacksons", they wroted and produced most of their music which is why I see them as 2 different groups, even if they share the same members... but i get what your saying about Randy

ali23 said:

NaughtyKitty said:

MJ's 'Moonwalker' -- U.S. Movie Debut Imminent

1/20/2011 12:15 AM PST by TMZ Staff

"Moonwalker" -- a collection of short films made by MJ in 1988 -- was never released theatrically in the United States ... but one L.A. movie theater is finally trying to make it happen ... for one night only.



TMZ has learned Arclight Cinemas in Hollywood is on the hunt for a film print of the 1988 cult classic ... after MJ fans flooded the A.C. Facebook page with the challenging request.

According to reports, "Moonwalker" was never theatrically released in America because of failed negotiations with U.S. movie distributors back in the day ... however the flick was eventually released in The States on VHS.

FYI -- "Moonwalker" featured a super-iconic 25-minute featurette for "Smooth Criminal" ... which included an awesome cameo by Joe Pesci.

Arclight claims they're actively searching for the print -- we'll let you know if the search succeeds.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/0...-facebook/

I hope that works out!

But there are thousands of prints of this in existence surely? It had a full european release, thats a lot of prints. I saw it just last year in London.

Its great on the big screen.

MattyJam said:

Rorywan said:

So apart from the 3 obviously fake tracks: B-News, Monster, H-Tonight.

Anyone else think THE START of "Best of Joy" sounds weird.

A line or two in sounds like a non MJ smurf.

Hollywood Tonight is NOT a Cascio song and is 100% legitimate.

Dumbass.

Although the first time i heard it i thought it wasn't him, although i believed you guys here that it was genuine, on first listen if i had to pick 3 fake tracks i would have put this as one, as i've listened to it more you can obviously tell. I still like KYHU although it isn't him. I don't listen to Monster or BN mainly because they are bad songs, and not him.

^Wow, he really does look like him. Not real version of Michael, but a "hunky" version of him. I still prefer the real thing. Is he speaking German?

Claire73 said:

***massages temples***

He had to open his mouth, didn't he?

I'm terrible.

MyLuv229 said:

Michael Jackson's 'Michael' Album Sales Pale Next to 'This Is It'

A year ago this coming March, headlines across the country trumpeted the $200 million-plus recording deal the estate of Michael Jackson signed with Sony Music Entertainment. Encompassing 10 releases of Jackson music through 2017, the contract counted as its first release the double-CD "This Is It" soundtrack.

Released Oct. 26, 2009, "This Is It" sold 1.6 million units, according to Nielsen SoundScan. This, coupled with Jackson's superstar status and influential legacy, plus fans' seemingly insatiable appetite for all things Michael, the general consensus was that an album of previously unreleased MJ tracks would sell just as well.

But that doesn't seem to be the case. Released Dec. 14, "Michael" debuted and peaked at No. 3 on the Billboard 200. Meanwhile, lead single "Hold My Hand," featuring Akon, peaked at No. 39 on the Billboard Hot 100 and No. 33 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, selling 304,000, according to SoundScan. And while in its first five weeks "Michael" has sold a respectable -- especially in this industry climate -- 434,000, the figure pales next to that of "This Is It," which sold 890,000 in its first five weeks. "Vision," a three-DVD boxed set featuring 40 MJ videos, has sold well for a boxed set, moving 85,000 units since its Nov. 22 release.

"The overall response to 'Hold My Hand' surprised me," says Chuck Atkins, VP of programming for R&B station WNOV Milwaukee. "I thought top 40 and [R&B] would show it more love. But they left it up to urban AC, and that's just not enough to keep it alive." Adding that the controversy over Jackson's vocals had a negative impact, Atkins believes any future new Jackson songs will "suffer the same way."

Rhythmic AC WKTU New York PD Rob Miller says lack of exposure on many pop stations probably hurt sales efforts more than the debate over Jackson's voice. " 'Hold My Hand' sounds so different than the bulk of music playing on top 40 radio," he says. "But considering the circumstances, I think the album did good. If Michael had been able to tour, reconnect with his audience, the outcome would've been more significant."

Sources say Sony Music Entertainment shipped 3 million "Michael" albums worldwide, of which 900,000 were designated for the United States. The label's promotional efforts also included a global streaming album premiere on Facebook to Jackson's 26 million fans.

Based on the album's first five weeks of U.S. availability, however, Sony looks like it has an inventory liability problem on its hands. In its debut week ending Dec. 19, the album scanned nearly 228,000 units, followed by 150,000 the next week. But in subsequent weeks, its total sales have shrunk to 27,000 units, 18,000 units and then 11,000 units for the week ending Jan. 16. There hasn't been any word from Sony -- whose executives were unavailable for comment -- as to whether a new single is in the wings. But if the album doesn't generate another hit and the record keeps selling roughly 10,000 units per week, then the album has a nine-month supply in the marketplace, which might mean retailers could eventually start sending the label returns.

The liability may not be bad in the rest of the world because Jackson is more popular there than in the United States.

Currently in the pipeline are several more Jackson projects. Ubisoft, publisher of the popular game "Just Dance," follows its Nov. 23 release of "Michael Jackson: The Experience" for the Wii with a Kinect version for Xbox 360 and PlayStation. The two versions will roll out April 12 in North America and April 14 in Europe, the Middle East and Asian territories; a Japan release date is slated for later this year. According to Ubisoft brand manager Andy Simpson, the Kinect version's "innovative camera technology captures the players and puts them in the Michael Jackson universe on their TV screens."

On Oct. 2 is the launch of Michael Jackson: The Immortal Tour in Montreal, a Cirque du Soleil production based on Jackson's music and career. Jackson estate co-executors John McLain and John Branca, the latter of whom was also unavailable for comment, announced the partnership last May. Additional stops also include Los Angeles and New York. Reggie Lyons, who handles publicity for the tour, says additional dates will be released once they're confirmed. A permanent show, staged in Las Vegas, is scheduled to open in 2013.

A reissue of Jackson's seminal 1979 Epic album, "Off the Wall," was reported last year as another project slated for 2011. But a formal release date hasn't been announced.

(Additional reporting by Ed Christman)

Source: http://www.billboard.com/...9871.story

The Estate's next move.

Based on the Billboard article I think the estate and sony really need to get their act together and roll out a proper marketing strategy for 'Michael' if they hope to recoup their investment.

First up they should resolve this whole "vocal debate". Get Jason Milachi on a major entertainment news show and have him state for the record what the deal is. And if the Cascio's have any footage of Michael singing the songs (as has been alluded to on here, but so far no backed up) then get it out there. It's one thing for them to be bad songs, another for them to be fake songs.

Release (not rush release) Another Day as next single and give it a proper video clip - not a mix of old footage of MJ superimposed. Give it an animated treatment a la Madonna's "Get Together" or find a more inventive way to give it a more vibrant or current feel. Also include the original demos of the song (and potentially others to quell the debate).

Depending on how Another Day is received look at releasing a third single.

If not then cut your loses and realise that more care needs to be taken in future over the release of any MJ material.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah they were still the Jackson 5 technically but their battle with Motown was the reason they had to change their name. Plus their music was different because they wanted to get away from the "teenybopper" tag.

True, but they were still the same group, same members and everything. I think Randy should have been inducted.

It's not like the got some new members to take there spot, they basically just changed labels and had freedom to write.

From a purely creative point of view there is a difference between the Jackson 5 and The Jacksons. Not only the member line up and change of label, but more importantly the change in their own ability to self write, compose and produce. That period gave us two fantastic albums in Destiny and Triumph (admitted two albums does not make a R'N'R Hall of Famer) but there is a clear distinction - even more so for Randy who was instrumental in the writing and recording of those Jacksons albums.

Whilst it does feel like Randy gets short changed a lot - not including him in The Jackson 5 honours was valid.

Swa said:

The Estate's next move.

Based on the Billboard article I think the estate and sony really need to get their act together and roll out a proper marketing strategy for 'Michael' if they hope to recoup their investment.

First up they should resolve this whole "vocal debate". Get Jason Milachi on a major entertainment news show and have him state for the record what the deal is. And if the Cascio's have any footage of Michael singing the songs (as has been alluded to on here, but so far no backed up) then get it out there. It's one thing for them to be bad songs, another for them to be fake songs.

Release (not rush release) Another Day as next single and give it a proper video clip - not a mix of old footage of MJ superimposed. Give it an animated treatment a la Madonna's "Get Together" or find a more inventive way to give it a more vibrant or current feel. Also include the original demos of the song (and potentially others to quell the debate).

Depending on how Another Day is received look at releasing a third single.

If not then cut your loses and realise that more care needs to be taken in future over the release of any MJ material.

I agree but I think Hollywood Tonight would make a better second single. It's been played on various radio stations including BBC where it's gotten a great response

I keep tellin' y'all Sony ain't gonna do SHIT with this album. They already fucked it up PRE-release and from the looks of it they just lazingly put it together.

Are we really surprise that album flopping?

babybugz said:

Are we really surprise that album flopping?

I'm surprised people are surprised that it's flopping.

bboy87 said:

I agree but I think Hollywood Tonight would make a better second single. It's been played on various radio stations including BBC where it's gotten a great response

This.

I checked and it's #1 on Spotify's MJ Top 5 which is purely based on plays. Spotify is an awesome popular music streaming service here in Europe.

Of all the songs on the new album being listened to on last.fm, it's the second most popular after Hold My Hand (which has obviously had extra promotion with the video and single sent to radio).

Hollywood Tonight is the logical 2nd single and according to Teddy Riley there's already been a remixed version done for radio. Teddy is mad because they aren't using the mix he did according to his Twitter.

I'd go with "Behind The Mask" as the 3rd single if Hollywood Tonight does well enough to warrant a 3rd.

Militant said:

bboy87 said:

I agree but I think Hollywood Tonight would make a better second single. It's been played on various radio stations including BBC where it's gotten a great response

This.

I checked and it's #1 on Spotify's MJ Top 5 which is purely based on plays. Spotify is an awesome popular music streaming service here in Europe.

Of all the songs on the new album being listened to on last.fm, it's the second most popular after Hold My Hand (which has obviously had extra promotion with the video and single sent to radio).

Hollywood Tonight is the logical 2nd single and according to Teddy Riley there's already been a remixed version done for radio. Teddy is mad because they aren't using the mix he did according to his Twitter.

I'd go with "Behind The Mask" as the 3rd single if Hollywood Tonight does well enough to warrant a 3rd.

I think Behind the Mask is stronger than Hollywood Tonight. HT is a good pop song, but I don't recognize Michael's style in all of it. Behind the Mask is an all around good song. I think it can also be radio-friendly and a possible hit considering the sound is relevant to today's.

MyLuv229 said:

^Wow, he really does look like him. Not real version of Michael, but a "hunky" version of him. I still prefer the real thing. Is he speaking German?

Looks NOTHING like Michael.

babybugz said:

Are we really surprise that album flopping?

It's still #3 on the worldwide chart but on individual charts, it's falling fast

There's a big discussion on KOP right now about WHY exactly the album hasn't done as well as people expected and there's many reasons.

-They put songs of questionable origins on the first full CD release after Michael's passing

Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up, and Monster could've been release, but not Michael. Maybe as B-sides on singles, maybe as digital downloads, but on the centerpiece. Do You Know Where Your Children Are AND Blue Gangster were considered but didn't make the cut, and although I'm not sure that BG should've been on there, DYKWYCA definitely should've have as it's stronger than nearly have the album.The drama that surrounded the songs killed much of the album's momentum

-They alienated/bypassed the fanbase

Aside from releasing the 3 questionable tracks, this was their BIGGEST misstep with this project. The main people who were going to buy this album were going to be the hardcore fans. The ones who frequent MJJC, Maximum Jackson, King of Pop Discussion, MJJBoard, The Michael Jackson Vault, Prince.org ( ), KingoftheDancefloor...etc.

The estate pretty much has NO INTERACTION WITH THE FANBASE and that's not a good thing

Instead the album is completely CASUAL LISTENER oriented, hence the remixing of the songs, having 50 Cent and Akon on the album (who's fame is at 14:53 as performers)

Promotion sucked could've been better

they could've:

-released a 1 hour documentary about the making of the album and have it aired on MTV, VH1, BET, Centric, and Palladia

-ran ads during TVOne and Fuse's constant MJ marathons

-ran stories about the album in Vibe, Essence, Sister 2 Sister, Rolling Stone, Ebony, Jet, Q, Mojo, and Billboard

that could've worked in the album's favor

Chilli on Michael: "that is MY husband"

bboy87 said:

babybugz said:

Are we really surprise that album flopping?

It's still #3 on the worldwide chart but on individual charts, it's falling fast

There's a big discussion on KOP right now about WHY exactly the album hasn't done as well as people expected and there's many reasons.

-They put songs of questionable origins on the first full CD release after Michael's passing

Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up, and Monster could've been release, but not Michael. Maybe as B-sides on singles, maybe as digital downloads, but on the centerpiece. Do You Know Where Your Children Are AND Blue Gangster were considered but didn't make the cut, and although I'm not sure that BG should've been on there, DYKWYCA definitely should've have as it's stronger than nearly have the album.The drama that surrounded the songs killed much of the album's momentum

-They alienated/bypassed the fanbase

Aside from releasing the 3 questionable tracks, this was their BIGGEST misstep with this project. The main people who were going to buy this album were going to be the hardcore fans. The ones who frequent MJJC, Maximum Jackson, King of Pop Discussion, MJJBoard, The Michael Jackson Vault, Prince.org ( ), KingoftheDancefloor...etc.

The estate pretty much has NO INTERACTION WITH THE FANBASE and that's not a good thing

Instead the album is completely CASUAL LISTENER oriented, hence the remixing of the songs, having 50 Cent and Akon on the album (who's fame is at 14:53 as performers)

Promotion sucked could've been better

they could've:

-released a 1 hour documentary about the making of the album and have it aired on MTV, VH1, BET, Centric, and Palladia

-ran ads during TVOne and Fuse's constant MJ marathons

-ran stories about the album in Vibe, Essence, Sister 2 Sister, Rolling Stone, Ebony, Jet, Q, Mojo, and Billboard

that could've worked in the album's favor

I think also there has be some shared responsibility with segments of fans deciding to boycot buying the album - this would have impact.

I also think streaming it for a week before release also hurt as those who weren't going to buy it had their decision reinforced and there was no immediate need to buy the album if you had already heard it.

I agree that greater promotion would have served it better - and those are great ideas Bboy. Sadly most people don't even know that it's out - and for the casual mainstream fan if it's not a greatest hits album then they aren't that interested.

bboy87 said:

babybugz said:

Are we really surprise that album flopping?

It's still #3 on the worldwide chart but on individual charts, it's falling fast

There's a big discussion on KOP right now about WHY exactly the album hasn't done as well as people expected and there's many reasons.

-They put songs of questionable origins on the first full CD release after Michael's passing

Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up, and Monster could've been release, but not Michael. Maybe as B-sides on singles, maybe as digital downloads, but on the centerpiece. Do You Know Where Your Children Are AND Blue Gangster were considered but didn't make the cut, and although I'm not sure that BG should've been on there, DYKWYCA definitely should've have as it's stronger than nearly have the album.The drama that surrounded the songs killed much of the album's momentum

-They alienated/bypassed the fanbase

Aside from releasing the 3 questionable tracks, this was their BIGGEST misstep with this project. The main people who were going to buy this album were going to be the hardcore fans. The ones who frequent MJJC, Maximum Jackson, King of Pop Discussion, MJJBoard, The Michael Jackson Vault, Prince.org ( ), KingoftheDancefloor...etc.

The estate pretty much has NO INTERACTION WITH THE FANBASE and that's not a good thing

Instead the album is completely CASUAL LISTENER oriented, hence the remixing of the songs, having 50 Cent and Akon on the album (who's fame is at 14:53 as performers)

Promotion sucked could've been better

they could've:

-released a 1 hour documentary about the making of the album and have it aired on MTV, VH1, BET, Centric, and Palladia

-ran ads during TVOne and Fuse's constant MJ marathons

-ran stories about the album in Vibe, Essence, Sister 2 Sister, Rolling Stone, Ebony, Jet, Q, Mojo, and Billboard

that could've worked in the album's favor

it's clearly people don't know how to market anymore, hell just lookat MJS past to see how it's done people. IF these people in instate really knew about MJ, they would know what he would have wanted and how to push this album ... oh well. Now they know what and what not to do (they should have already known what not to do, let me stop ...)

I just emailed someone who works with the estate with suggestions/ideas I've come up with. They'll be sending them to the executors I think

I've finally heard the "new" album. It sounds like his 95-01 work...not surprised, he NEVER left new jack/modern R&B sound behind...the album sounds dated as hell, but at least is not shit-hop/shit-dance...