What are you babbling about "not gonna admit it". There's NOTHING to admit.

"Butterflies" and "2000 Watts" sound just like Michael Jackson. The pronuciation is consistent with how he spoke and sang. There's no digitally added vibrato to mask a weak singer. There's unique MJ adlibs. None of these things are present on the Cascio songs.

I promise you on the lives of everyone I love, if these two songs came out today, I'd say "That's Michael Jackson". I don't know how to make it more serious than that.

I'd say "God strike my down and send me to the maggots right now if I'm lying", but I'm an atheist

But you apparently don't want to see sense even though all the evidence is right there in your face. So fuck it, I'm going to bed because I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to a wall.

[Edited 12/8/10 22:10pm]

BabyBeMine said:

Militant...bringing up Teddy Riley tax issues a couple of pages back to prove Riley may have been lying on Oprah is not relevant.

My Question was simple and not complicated

Who did MJ trust?

1. Cascio's

2. Brothers and Nephews

Cascio's.....So whatever the Nephews post on twitter is BS

Theres more of a chance the brothers and nephews would lie than the Cascio's because MJ didnt trust his own family. Like i said

Why wasn't MJ recording in Tito's studio in 2007? He and 3t could have shared old good times together

don't companies ask for credit reports these days to avoid possible need employees? I think the cops look at that kind of stuff too when they do investigations, of course it shows motive. Everyone I've ever observed around a celebrity cashes in eventually, everyone, no one can really be trusted. We'll get hundreds and thousands of books on Michael by all of them in the coming years. Probably the most trustworthy person around Michael who has a story is Lisa Marie and that's only because she's a celeb herself, experienced it and really doesn't need that or money. But, noone can be trusted, no one, sad but true, probably not even you guys in the same position as these others. I like to think I could be.

tangerine7 said:

Hold My Hand ~ Michael Jackson ft. Akon

[Edited 12/8/10 21:42pm]

ahem people....

oceancrayon said:

BabyBeMine said:

My point is TRUST

You choose to believe those MJ didn't trust and i choose to believe the ones MJ did trust

Whenever his brothers called...i bet Mike was like...oooh damn what they want today?

my point is, is that before i heard a damn word out of anybody's mouth on either side, when Breaking News debuted, i (along with ALOT of other people) knew something fishy was up and that it wasn't him. so i really dont care what theories you have on MJ's family or friends.

[Edited 12/8/10 21:40pm]

Question? Do you have the ability to answer this

When did MJ sing a soulful track after 2000?

How do you know what MJ sounds like if he were to sing a soulful "keep your head up track" at 47 years old

Please dont compare it to Human Nature...This is it

Totally different styles. Its like comparing "Butterflies" to "dont walk away"

Marsha of Floetry wanted MJ to sing in a more soulful tone.

Nobody here has evidence of MJ on a soulful " Keep Your Head up" or a "Monster type track'

Show Me....Mike in 2002. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.....Was just chillin and the only highlights on fan sites was Mike outside with his kids with mask on OR the ebony Photos

Militant said:

What are you babbling about "not gonna admit it". There's NOTHING to admit.

"Butterflies" and "2000 Watts" sound just like Michael Jackson. The pronuciation is consistent with how he spoke and sang. There's no digitally added vibrato to mask a weak singer. There's unique MJ adlibs. None of these things are present on the Cascio songs.

I promise you on the lives of everyone I love, if these two songs came out today, I'd say "That's Michael Jackson". I don't know how to make it more serious than that.

I'd say "God strike my down and send me to the maggots right now if I'm lying", but I'm an atheist

But you apparently don't want to see sense even though all the evidence is right there in your face. So fuck it, I'm going to bed because I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to a wall.

[Edited 12/8/10 22:10pm]

Wrong....Im formerly of MJIFC....and i remember fans were like thats not MJ

tangerine7 said:

Hold My Hand ~ Michael Jackson ft. Akon

[Edited 12/8/10 21:42pm]

There are some nice points in this but the editing is too rapid in most points - too frenetic for the actual flow of the song. And surely some better use of the MJ footage could have been used.

BabyBeMine said:

oceancrayon said:

my point is, is that before i heard a damn word out of anybody's mouth on either side, when Breaking News debuted, i (along with ALOT of other people) knew something fishy was up and that it wasn't him. so i really dont care what theories you have on MJ's family or friends.

[Edited 12/8/10 21:40pm]

Question? Do you have the ability to answer this

When did MJ sing a soulful track after 2000?

How do you know what MJ sounds like if he were to sing a soulful "keep your head up track" at 47 years old

Please dont compare it to Human Nature...This is it

Totally different styles. Its like comparing "Butterflies" to "dont walk away"

Marsha of Floetry wanted MJ to sing in a more soulful tone.

Nobody here has evidence of MJ on a soulful " Keep Your Head up" or a "Monster type track'

Show Me....Mike in 2002. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.....Was just chillin and the only highlights on fan sites was Mike outside with his kids with mask on OR the ebony Photos

not trying to be rude, but you dear kiddo, are clearly delusional, and not worth the effort to argue with.

If 2010 Mike gets with a hip producer who wants MJ to sing a slow or Mid-tempo cut with soul and r&b style....It aint gonna sound like Off The Wall Mike

Also Sony isn't desperate like that. Yall making it sound like its some low budget label

FACT.....MJ fans have been complaining since 2002

Name a artist who has there own TV COMMERCIAL.....Fans on another forum complaining the album has no commercial..

Usher and JT didnt either....There your followers right? So why need EXTRA

Shouldn't they need a EXTRA?

Invincible lacked promotion. Had to hear that 8 years ago despite majority of radio stations playing the entire album along with MJ was on TRL and 106 and Park...BET

If the music is hot it will sell

oceancrayon said:

BabyBeMine said:

Question? Do you have the ability to answer this

When did MJ sing a soulful track after 2000?

How do you know what MJ sounds like if he were to sing a soulful "keep your head up track" at 47 years old

Please dont compare it to Human Nature...This is it

Totally different styles. Its like comparing "Butterflies" to "dont walk away"

Marsha of Floetry wanted MJ to sing in a more soulful tone.

Nobody here has evidence of MJ on a soulful " Keep Your Head up" or a "Monster type track'

Show Me....Mike in 2002. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.....Was just chillin and the only highlights on fan sites was Mike outside with his kids with mask on OR the ebony Photos

not trying to be rude, but you dear kiddo, are clearly delusional, and not worth the effort to argue with.

Your inability to answer my question leads to your answer. You have no evidence of MJ on a soulful track after 2000.

BabyBeMine said:

oceancrayon said:

my point is, is that before i heard a damn word out of anybody's mouth on either side, when Breaking News debuted, i (along with ALOT of other people) knew something fishy was up and that it wasn't him. so i really dont care what theories you have on MJ's family or friends.

[Edited 12/8/10 21:40pm]

Question? Do you have the ability to answer this

When did MJ sing a soulful track after 2000?

How do you know what MJ sounds like if he were to sing a soulful "keep your head up track" at 47 years old

Please dont compare it to Human Nature...This is it

Totally different styles. Its like comparing "Butterflies" to "dont walk away"

Marsha of Floetry wanted MJ to sing in a more soulful tone.

Nobody here has evidence of MJ on a soulful " Keep Your Head up" or a "Monster type track'

Show Me....Mike in 2002. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.....Was just chillin and the only highlights on fan sites was Mike outside with his kids with mask on OR the ebony Photos

You told people don't compare it to Human Nature on This Is It because it debunks your theory

In fact, Human Nature on This Is It has about three elements that debunk your theory: when he starts off singing to Dorian Holley and does that growl voice of "I like Living this way", as well as the more airy part of "electric eyes are everywhere", those are two similar tones that are used by whoever is singing Monster. And the rest of the track IS a soulful track, and the vocals do not sound like those on Keep Your Head Up.

No wonder you told people don't use Human Nature on This Is It

[Edited 12/8/10 22:39pm]

alphastreet said:

tangerine7 said:

Hold My Hand ~ Michael Jackson ft. Akon

[Edited 12/8/10 21:42pm]

ahem people....

Superstition said:

BabyBeMine said:

Question? Do you have the ability to answer this

When did MJ sing a soulful track after 2000?

How do you know what MJ sounds like if he were to sing a soulful "keep your head up track" at 47 years old

Please dont compare it to Human Nature...This is it

Totally different styles. Its like comparing "Butterflies" to "dont walk away"

Marsha of Floetry wanted MJ to sing in a more soulful tone.

Nobody here has evidence of MJ on a soulful " Keep Your Head up" or a "Monster type track'

Show Me....Mike in 2002. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.....Was just chillin and the only highlights on fan sites was Mike outside with his kids with mask on OR the ebony Photos

You told people don't compare it to Human Nature on This Is It because it debunks your theory

In fact, Human Nature on This Is It has about three elements that debunk your theory: when he starts off singing to Dorian Holley and does that growl voice of "I like Living this way", as well as the more airy part of "electric eyes are everywhere", those are two similar tones that are used by whoever is singing Monster. And the rest of the track IS a soulful track, and the vocals do not sound like those on Keep Your Head Up.

No wonder you told people don't use Human Nature on This Is It

[Edited 12/8/10 22:39pm]

Your making that up...cause i have never mentioined Human Nature...That song has not come out of my chat mouth on this site since a post your all time favorite MJ songs....Last year

What are you talking about?

"Please dont compare it to Human Nature...This is it"

Did you not just post that?

You asked what soulful tracks has Mike been on since Butterflies, and my mind immediately shot to Human Nature on This Is It. Then I see in your post you say "Give me an example of a soulful track.. JUST DON'T USE HUMAN NATURE ON THIS IS IT!"

You don't want people to use it because it goes against the points you're trying to make.

[Edited 12/8/10 22:51pm]

wow look - chill pills for everyone!!!

angel345 said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Your little sister has a keen ear.

It is probably why WillIam was upset about the album. Out of Oprah's own mouth, she said MJ was a perfectionist. The 'mystery' continues.

Will didn't even know Michael personally for darn near 30 years like Eddie Cascio, and yet he's aware of how trying to fulfill MJ's role is pointless. Will is a hardcore Michael Jackson fan as well, so he knows you can't fake us other hardcore fans out with forgery. Therefore, I can appreciate him not being involved with this particular "album."

Plus, if anybody can say whether or not Cascio's three songs are Michael Jackson, it's Will, since he captured Michael's voice for tracks he produced RECENTLY, in 2007. So he heard and has recordings of what MJ's "older" vocals sound like. But Will doesn't have to say it out loud. His aversion to this release says plenty....

Im laughing right now....You know why?

There is evidence of MJ singing "Keep Your Head Up" in the Cascio's basement LIVE

But there saving in for the video. All the fake crap will be put to rest

To be honest im not even arguing. I know im right and it will be proven

The footage shows MJ pausing and stopping and doing multiple takes. There were points where his falsetto was off and he wanted to do it over again. There joking about how it sounds great and MJ is like...We can do better than this

Im giving out to much info and will stop....RIGHT HERE

BabyBeMine said:

Im laughing right now....You know why?

There is evidence of MJ singing "Keep Your Head Up" in the Cascio's basement LIVE

But there saving in for the video. All the fake crap will be put to rest

To be honest im not even arguing. I know im right and it will be proven

The footage shows MJ pausing and stopping and doing multiple takes. There were points where his falsetto was off and he wanted to do it over again. There joking about how it sounds great and MJ is like...We can do better than this

Im giving out to much info and will stop....RIGHT HERE

When we see this video, I will laugh right along with you at how so many of us, including myself, were wrong.

However, since they had a chance to show such a clip - or even a still photograph - on one of the world's most popular talkshows and to debunk the myth and put the focus back on the music and not the controversy and didn't bother doing it - I'm going to remain highly skeptical.

BabyBeMine said:

Wrong....Im formerly of MJIFC....and i remember fans were like thats not MJ

Wrong? Excuse me? How the fuck you gonna tell me what --> I <-- think? Are you serious? Either you're in my head, or you're accusing me of lying. Ask anyone here if they think that's my style. I assure you it is not. I'm not disputing that no Michael Jackson fan somewhere, ever thought those songs from Invincible might not be MJ, but that's irrelevant. I know Michael Jackson's voice because I've been listening to it damn every day of my life for as long as I can remember, and I have never, not once EVER thought anything Michael did didn't sound like him or perhaps wasn't. Until these Cascio songs came out.

And I've never been on MJIFC and I never saw a SINGLE person ever say anything like that on any MJ forum I've ever been on, and I was active on a few of them when Invincible was released.

http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com

to further controversy , this shows mike and that james porte do backing vocals but mike is not credited for leads ...

not once did i think it was mike . i remember i logged in early to check the song and i was excited to whitnes a new song with new vocals and i thought this aint mike ( i already found the auw on the snippet strange) and to my surprise the ssong was sounding like someone else.

i went online to check if i was the only one thinking this. but this board was full of people in disbelief.

i hope mikes kids speak out againts this one day

If you're right about that video then that'll be great. But you know what? I WILL be able to tell if it's a different person singing on the video (ie Michael) than the vocal track on the ACTUAL album. I promise you that. Even if Michael is singing the exact same song. I can even play it in a multimillion dollar studio to listen in the best possible enviroment. It's still absolutely possible that MJ took his vocals with him - (remember that Will.I.Am said that's how Michael worked, Will kept the music, Mike took his vocals) and they recreated them with another singer.

So, yes, I hope this footage is real.

You were asking about soulful Michael songs post 2001? How about One More Chance? How about The Way You Love Me? Those soulful enough for you?

Honestly, the fact that the Cascio's registered LYRICS and not SONGS is a seriously damning piece of evidence if you want to talk about what works in a court of law. You register what you HAVE. They had lyrics. That's it."Songbook" isn't anything else other than what it says it is. A book, with lyrics to songs written in it. You cannot record audio into pages of paper binded together

Swa said:

wow look - chill pills for everyone!!!

Militant said:

BabyBeMine said:

Wrong....Im formerly of MJIFC....and i remember fans were like thats not MJ

Wrong? Excuse me? How the fuck you gonna tell me what --> I <-- think? Are you serious? Either you're in my head, or you're accusing me of lying. Ask anyone here if they think that's my style. I assure you it is not. I'm not disputing that no Michael Jackson fan somewhere, ever thought those songs from Invincible might not be MJ, but that's irrelevant. I know Michael Jackson's voice because I've been listening to it damn every day of my life for as long as I can remember, and I have never, not once EVER thought anything Michael did didn't sound like him or perhaps wasn't. Until these Cascio songs came out.

And I've never been on MJIFC and I never saw a SINGLE person ever say anything like that on any MJ forum I've ever been on, and I was active on a few of them when Invincible was released.

This will be proven to be FACT

MJ sings about 80% of the "Keep Your Head Up" Track

How can you be a MJ fan and say this is not Michael Jackson

Keeping your head up to the sky!
Keeping your mind stay alive,
Keeping your wings so we can fly,
Keep your head up, tonight!
Keeping your head up to the sky,
Are we could just rise up, tell me now?
Give me your wings so we can fly!

Keeping your head up to the sky!
Keeping your mind stay alive,
Keeping your wings so we can fly,
Keep your head up, tonight!
Keeping your head up to the sky,
Are we could just rise up, tell me now?
Give me your wings so we can fly!

Everybody say that time is borrowed,
And hanging down your head is no good,
And if your day arrives…tomorrow
Just give yourself a chance,
Fight the circumstance,
Rising too, again!

Keeping your head up to the sky!
Keeping your mind stay alive,
Keeping your wings so we can fly,
Keep your head up, tonight!
Keeping your head up to the sky,
Are we could just rise up, tell me now?
Give me your wings so we can fly!

Thats all MJ right there. Its MJ on about 80% and the rest James Porte filling it out

LISTEN TO THE CHORUS....Your saying thats not MJ

Militant said:

BabyBeMine said:

Questions for you?

1. Where is there evidence of the Cascio's ever lying on MJ

By majority, you actually mean "a few". Name some names of ALL the people that said that. And what does the last time some family members saw him have to do with ANYTHING? Again, you have NO idea what family members Michael talked to in the final months of his life. This is all complete conjecture on your part, and it's all completely irrelevant too.

So i choose to believe the family MJ prefered to spend quality time with during his later years.

Did MJ go to Tito or Jackie's basement and record? NOPE....Tito does have a studio, i hope you know that... But the kind of pop wasn't there...I wonder why

I thought MJ and 3t were close? How come he wasn't at Tito's studio in 2007?

Tito and 3T are not one and the same, you know. MJ's relationship with Tito is a different relationship to how he got along with Tito's kids. Again, I've already explained this.

Why wasn't he at Tito's studio in 2007? Who the fuck knows - it's completely irrelevant. There's no evidence he was recording at the Cascio's studio either and there is nothing to suggest he ever did other than a handful of songs that don't sound like him, have nothing in common even compared to songs he recorded THE SAME YEAR (Hold My Hand), and have sampled breaths and adlibs from all sorts of other MJ songs. For the record though.... here's a crazy idea... perhaps MJ wasn't at Tito's studio in 2007 BECAUSE HE WAS LIVING IN LAS VEGAS AND RECORDING AT THE PALMS IN 2007. Akon recorded with MJ in Vegas in 2007. Will.I.Am recorded with MJ in Vegas in 2007 and took him to Prince's show at the Rio. RedOne recorded with MJ in Vegas in 2007.

Yes - everyone knows he stayed with the Cascio's for a couple of months at the end of 2007. But there's no evidence that he recorded there. Pretty much all of the articles about him being in Vegas mention that he was recording. None of the articles about him being in NJ (and there weren't many) say that he was recording whilst there.

But at the end of the day - I don't think anybody who feels passionately about this is going to change their mind at this point. However - I've answered your questions. You have not answered mine - but I'd love to see you try. So here goes:

1. Why don't the songs sound like anything else Michael ever recorded, including songs recorded in the SAME year? Bear in mind, "low budget studios" and "vocal processing" don't count, as I've already debunked both of these points and they are now invalid, having worked in studios myself for over 8 years and recorded everywhere from bedroom studios, engineering things myself, to the most expensive studios in the world with top-class engineers.

2. Why are there no adlibs, scratch vocal takes, demo takes, recordings of him humming parts of the songs as he was ALWAYS known to do? Why are there no lyric sheets, no pictures of Michael recording, no video footage of Michael recording, not a SINGLE piece of evidence that any recordings were made?

3. Eddie Cascio has a audio engineering qualification. WHY did he send already processed vocal tracks to the Estate as opposed to the original, unedited tracks? ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about audio engineering will tell you that there's ALWAYS an unedited version of the vocal as a backup in case you decide to undo what you did and mix the tracks differently. Since he has a qualification, he WOULD know this.

4. Why are there NO real MJ adlibs on the Cascio songs so they had to sample in adlibs from older, released songs?

5. Why is there a digitally added vibrato on the Cascio vocals? I've asked every producer I know when would be the appropriate time to add a digital vibrato, and they ALL said "when the singer isn't good enough to sing a real vibrato". Obviously not the case with Michael, and before you say "maybe his voice wasn't in good shape" - he sounds incredible on "Hold My Hand", recorded the SAME year.

6. Will.I.Am worked with Michael in 2006 and 2007 in Ireland and Las Vegas. He said that after the sessions, he'd keep the music on his hard drives and Michael would keep his recorded vocals on his. If that's the case, WHY would MJ leave vocals with the Cascio's? If the Cascio's did indeed record with Michael (which there's no evidence for), it's logical to assume Michael took the vocals, the Cascio's remembered how the songs went and recreated them with either Eddie, James or someone else singing them, then sampled in MJ breaths and adlibs from other places to mask it.

7. WHY did the Cascio's not register anything until after Michael died? Also, songs were never registered individually, as is standard practice, but instead were all registered together under the name "MJ Songbook", with NO individual songnames listed? Also - this "MJ Songbook" registration was NOT for songs. It was for LYRICS only. The only LOGICAL assumption here is that Michael WROTE these songs, but didn't record them. Otherwise - the Cascio's would have registered SONGS in the first place, and not just lyrics. So - WHY was the filing just for lyrics and not for songs?

It doesn't take a genius to realise that what seems to have happened is that Michael wrote down a bunch of lyrics in a book, perhaps even to some rudimentary music produced by Eddie, left the "Songbook" with the Cascio's, who saw their opportunity to make money after he died, registered the songs, then recorded someone else singing the lyrics that Michael wrote, processed the fuck out of them to try and cover up the fact that it wasn't MJ, added in sampled breaths and adlibs from other songs to further mask the fake vocals, then SOLD these tracks to the Estate.

All hail....

Dear family...

Can you all tell me where this is from? I got this as a screen shot from the Hold My Hand music vid. You can only see it for a split second....I think I'm in love again

SherryJackson said:

Dear family...

Can you all tell me where this is from? I got this as a screen shot from the Hold My Hand music vid. You can only see it for a split second....I think I'm in love again

haha i was gonna post the same picture! not sure where it's from but it looks early 1986

Just heard R Kellys version of You Are Not Alone...Sadly it's not the 1995 demo, but a new 2010 version .. Sounds good tho

and fall again, we've had enough, those are soulful too! You look like a total ass right now babybemine, why even have an mj fan name when you don't know all of his collection up until the very end?

ViintageJunkiie said:

SherryJackson said:

Dear family...

Can you all tell me where this is from? I got this as a screen shot from the Hold My Hand music vid. You can only see it for a split second....I think I'm in love again

haha i was gonna post the same picture! not sure where it's from but it looks early 1986

Great minds..what can I say I figured the same time...but is this actual video from then or just a picture? I couldn't tell from the video...it was too fast.

But daaaaamn.......I've said it before I'll say it again....I wanna be this man's babymama

SherryJackson said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

haha i was gonna post the same picture! not sure where it's from but it looks early 1986

Great minds..what can I say I figured the same time...but is this actual video from then or just a picture? I couldn't tell from the video...it was too fast.

But daaaaamn.......I've said it before I'll say it again....I wanna be this man's babymama

From the clip in the video, it's just a photo

im sure all the ladies wanted THAT

MJ kept his recorded vocals for those he did not trust, OR were new to him. For example a new producer he was working with.

Ne Yo

Will I AM

These type of cats...MJ aint gonna trust to the point where he gives them his vocals. Yea MJ and Will i Am built up a temporary bond over a couple of months, but MJ and the Cascio's were friends for over 25 years. You cant make the comparison.

MJ listened to ideas from many young producers such as Irv Gotti in 2002 after the Lakers beat the New Jersey Nets in the NBA Finals. Mike flew Gotti out to Neverland.

He had Ne Yo submit demo beats and instrumentals. But these guys, MJ was not tight with like that so he kept his recorded vocals.