Graycap23 said:

Why don't you just humor me & look up music in the dictionary?

It might not change your mind, but you might at least understand where I'm coming from, too.

I do get what you're saying (like I said I play instruments, too), but I'm not sure you are even trying to understand me.

NDRU said:

I understand I just don't agree.

Graycap23 said:

okay! I didn't expect to change your mind

Graycap23 said:

We don't have to go down that road again, do we. You're talking to other musicians here who don't agree with you. I guess you're assuming that you are a better and more knowledgable musician than them. Aaaanyway...

VenusBlingBling said:

They are entitled 2 be wrong. It's cool with me.

Graycap23 said:

Your ego is TINY.

Graycap23 said:

Like I said, there is no right or wrong with opinion.

VenusBlingBling said:

This is classic "Id" at work.

Graycap23 said:

LOL. Okay
[Edited 4/8/10 14:41pm]

WaterInYourBath said:

exactly, whistling, snapping your fingers, tap dancing, singing, can all be music if they're done musically

But my opinion of what makes someone a musician comes down more to skill, not such a cosmic "music is in the ear of the beholder" kind of loose technical definition

I wanted to say something but then I was like nah.

NDRU said:

The arguemnet does not hold water in my opinion. It is like saying that in the world of Car racing, the guy who fixes the car, is the same as the actual race car driver. Or worse, the nurse is the same as the doctor. They clearly are not the same.

Graycap23 said:

That's understandable, but it's opinion. No one is right or wrong. I just get annoyed by people who state something as fact when it really isn't fact.

tubby said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

oops
[Edited 4/8/10 12:55pm]

Graycap23 said:

you're right, nurses & doctors are not the same, but they both practice "medicine" and drivers and mechanics are both in "auto racing. Singers & guitar players both make music--in different ways.

I'm not saying they're the same, but singers sing notes of what, if not music? What's the difference if a melody is sung instead of played by an instrument? Isn't ANY melody called music?

NDRU said:

Q: U want 2 create a group which contains a guitar player, a drummer, a keyboard player, a bass player and a singer.

Do u: A: Hire one of each (ie guitar player, bass, etc...)
or
B: Hire 5 singers?

Part II: Which group A & B, has a better change of making music that anyone would want 2 hear?

tubby said:

Graycap23 said:

A. What's your point

B. Ask Bobby McFerrin or any barbershop quartet for that matter.
[Edited 4/8/10 13:10pm]

Graycap23 said:

That's a question of creating the best possible music, not whether or not 5 singers could make music at all. But I'll answer your question--A

Q for you: Is Bb a musical note (even if it is sung)?
[Edited 4/8/10 13:12pm]

Yes, Prince is my favorite artist.

Just to add my 2 cents without taking sides. I can see where both camps are coming from.

From an old-schoolers perspective, back in the day (40s, 50s, etc) when one claimed the title "musician", there was an implied connotation that went beyond a text-book/dictionary definition. There was an assumption that one had the necessary skills required to at least earn a living as such. Whether they played an instrument, sang or wrote music. It also didn't matter whether one was schooled or self taught as long as you could "hang" with those that were established.

Specific to the time frame i'm referring to and maybe make what i'm trying to say a bit more clear, imagine walking up to Ellington, Basie, Bernstein and saying i'd like to play/sing/write with/for your band/orchestra.

Today, using the strict text-book/dictionary definition, almost anyone qualifies.
Similar to music itself which has been devalued, it seems that the term has also.
Anyone that can croak out a few notes can technically be called a singer.
The quality of those notes being irrelevant.
Anyone that can squeak one note out of an instrument can technically be called a musician.
Again, the quality of that one note seemingly irrelevant.

Something to consider.
If those that some would call "musicians" today were transported back to the 30s/40s/50s, would they still qualify?
And what about the reverse?

Anyway, that's just my take.

And to answer the original question...No.


Music for adventurous listeners


tA

Tribal Records

Graycap23 said:

Are you fucking kidding me? Bobby McFerrin is a prime example of a MUSICIAN who never uses any instrument except his own voice-box. Someone else mentioned barbershop quartets, who are musicians as well. The term "musician" is a wide term. Look it up.

But before you do, check this out. A MUSICIAN at work:

[Edited 4/8/10 14:04pm]

Lol.....I guess Bobby Mac represents your average singer.
Got it.

theAudience said:

Yes, and in a practical sense, I understand the distinction between singer & musicians, and only calling someone with skills in the craft of playing an instrument a "real musician."

But there's one issue you didn't address--do you think a good singer is a musician?
[Edited 4/8/10 15:12pm]

Graycap23 said:

That's just it. He's NOT a singer. He is a "musician" and he never touches an instrument.

Graycap23 said:

but you do think he's a musician?

SEANMAN said:

NDRU said:

No. He is mimicking the sounds of instruments. He is NOT playing an instrument.
Does he sound like an instrument? Yes.
Is he playing one? No.
Technically he is using his body as as instrument but this does not bolster your case. Bobby Mac is 1 artist with a UNIQUE skill set. Emphasis on UNIQUE. I was waiting 4 someone 2 pull Bobby or Manhattan Transfer or Take 6 out of their ARSE as if they represent a typical vocalist. This thread is getting funnier by the moment.

Graycap23 said:

the typical guitar player could hardly be called a musician either.

Bobby is not being used as a typical example of a vocalist, he's being used as an extreme example to illustrate a point that you can use your voice in the same way you use an instrument.
[Edited 4/8/10 14:14pm]

NDRU said:

Bobby is GREAT at what he does.....but I don't see him in demand as a session musician. Not now and not when he was at his peak.