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Printableelectrorock said: whatsgoingon said: I am not his biggest fan, so aint about to convince you whether he plays an instrument or write his own songs. But he has written quite a few of his own songs, from Don't Stop Till You Get Enough to Billie Jean and Beat It. But probably you have convince yourself that all he has ever done is dance and sing. his singing and dancing is enough for me. im a big fan of his and a huge fan of elvis. Fair enough  | |
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PatrickS77 said: midnightmover said: Have you ever actually seen him play the piano? I think not. Therefore, what evidence do you have that he can play it? You're making a huge supposition there based on no real evidence. In all fairness, you can't argue that he can't play because you don't know! We can't argue that he can play, because we don't know either! If we go by the fact that he doesn't play live on stage, then that points towards your theory that he can't play! If we go by the fact that he is credited on playing some instruments on his latest albums, then that points towards the theory that he indeed can play! Fact is, we know jack shit! Whatever the case, I'm sure that it is save to say that Prince is more skilled on any instruments than Michael! And I never disputed that! By that rationale I could also say that Kylie plays an instrument. Can you prove otherwise? Maybe George Bush is a killer guitarist. Can you prove otherwise? No, you can't, but what you can do is make logical assumptions based on common sense. Fact is no-one has ever seen Mike play an instrument. I've never heard Quincy or any producer say he can play an instrument. Don't you think one of them would have mentioned it by now if he could? The only people I've ever heard make this claim are hardcore fans. That includes whatsgoingon who is a hardcore fan of Black Michael. As for liner notes they mean nothing. Both Madonna and Janet have been credited as playing keyboards on different songs. Simon Cowell is credited as playing tambourine on some Westlife songs, but somehow I don't think he's gonna be giving Sheila E or Paulinha Da Costa any sleepless nights. [Edited 11/12/07 11:21am] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: By that rationale blablablabla You know... I'm bored of you! You're arguing for arguing's sake! Nobody ever saw Prince compose a song... maybe somebody else is composing his songs!  I seriously have enough of you! | |
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midnightmover said: PatrickS77 said: In all fairness, you can't argue that he can't play because you don't know! We can't argue that he can play, because we don't know either! If we go by the fact that he doesn't play live on stage, then that points towards your theory that he can't play! If we go by the fact that he is credited on playing some instruments on his latest albums, then that points towards the theory that he indeed can play! Fact is, we know jack shit! Whatever the case, I'm sure that it is save to say that Prince is more skilled on any instruments than Michael! And I never disputed that! By that rationale I could also say that Kylie plays an instrument. Can you prove otherwise? Maybe George Bush is a killer guitarist. Can you prove otherwise? No, you can't, but what you can do is make logical assumptions based on common sense. Fact is no-one has ever seen Mike play an instrument. I've never heard Quincy or any producer say he can play an instrument. Don't you think one of them would have mentioned it by now if he could? The only people I've ever heard make this claim are hardcore fans. That includes whatsgoingon who is a hardcore fan of Black Michael. As for liner notes they mean nothing. Both Madonna and Janet have been credited as playing keyboards on different songs. Simon Cowell is credited as playing tambourine on some Westlife songs, but somehow I don't think he's gonna be giving Sheila E or Paulinha Da Costa any sleepless nights.[Edited 11/12/07 11:21am] | |
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“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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PatrickS77 said: midnightmover said: By that rationale blablablabla You know... I'm bored of you! You're arguing for arguing's sake! Nobody ever saw Prince compose a song... maybe somebody else is composing his songs! I seriously have enough of you!Bored of being out-argued, huh? Maybe if you're so bored of me you should stop butting in on my conversations all the time. You sure do like to talk to me a lot, considering how "boring" I am.  “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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whatsgoingon said: midnightmover said: By that rationale I could also say that Kylie plays an instrument. Can you prove otherwise? Maybe George Bush is a killer guitarist. Can you prove otherwise? No, you can't, but what you can do is make logical assumptions based on common sense. Fact is no-one has ever seen Mike play an instrument. I've never heard Quincy or any producer say he can play an instrument. Don't you think one of them would have mentioned it by now if he could? The only people I've ever heard make this claim are hardcore fans. That includes whatsgoingon who is a hardcore fan of Black Michael. As for liner notes they mean nothing. Both Madonna and Janet have been credited as playing keyboards on different songs. Simon Cowell is credited as playing tambourine on some Westlife songs, but somehow I don't think he's gonna be giving Sheila E or Paulinha Da Costa any sleepless nights.[Edited 11/12/07 11:21am] That comment was with reference to Simon Cowell, not MJ. The point being that just because an artist (or manager) is credited on an album sleeve as playing an instrument does not mean they can actually play. It can often be just a case of playing a one note synth part and having it looped. You are saying you think Mike can play an instrument. Like I said before, you have no evidence to support that claim, so please don't expect us to take it seriously. “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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As for this debate on whether or not he can play an instrument -- who cares? As Michael Jackson has said in several interviews, he composes a number of his songs through beatboxing.
He records the sounds he makes with his beatboxing, and works with professional instrumentalists in order to get the sound in his head onto paper. | |
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Damn, look at what's happened to this thread "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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midnightmover said: whatsgoingon said: But who saying he is up there with Paulinha Da Costa in the first place? Not me. I just said he probably isn't proefficient enough to play on stage, no one was arguing he could give Stevie wonder a competition or Prince for that matter. And why credit him with playing keyboard on an album sleeve if he couldn't play jack, doesn't make sense to me.
That comment was with reference to Simon Cowell, not MJ. The point being that just because an artist (or manager) is credited on an album sleeve as playing an instrument does not mean they can actually play. It can often be just a case of playing a one note synth part and having it looped. You are saying you think Mike can play an instrument. Like I said before, you have no evidence to support that claim, so please don't expect us to take it seriously. No, I do believe he can play the piano, not brilliantly but he can play. I didn't see him write Billie Jean and Beat It either, but there is nothing stopping me to believe that was his own work. | |
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whatsgoingon said: midnightmover said: That comment was with reference to Simon Cowell, not MJ. The point being that just because an artist (or manager) is credited on an album sleeve as playing an instrument does not mean they can actually play. It can often be just a case of playing a one note synth part and having it looped. You are saying you think Mike can play an instrument. Like I said before, you have no evidence to support that claim, so please don't expect us to take it seriously. No, I do believe he can play the piano, not brilliantly but he can play. I didn't see him write Billie Jean and Beat It either, but there is nothing stopping me to believe that was his own work. That's almost as specious a comparison as the one Patrickwhatshisname made about never seeing P write his songs. No-one ever sees anyone write their songs. That's a private activity. The public will only ever see the results, not the process. Playing an instrument is a totally different thing. If an artist can do that then we'll usually see them do it at some point, or at least get some confirmation somewhere. Mick Hucknall's not a great guitarist, but I've seen him play. I even saw Britney playing keyboard a few years ago. Elvis wasn't a great pianist, but I saw him play too. So once again, I have to ask you the question you cannot answer. What reason do you have to believe Michael can play? Answer. You don't have one, but you want to believe it, so you do. As so often, the fantasy comes first and logic doesn't even come second. It comes nowhere. [Edited 11/12/07 12:27pm] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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midnightmover said: You are saying you think Mike can play an instrument. Like I said before, you have no evidence to support that claim, so please don't expect us to take it seriously.
Yes, and you have no evidence to the contrary, so don't expect us to take you serious! You're not "outargueing" anyone... you just refuse to consider any point that could disprove your theory! And that's what I mean with you being boring! It doesn't make sense to discuss anything with you, since you stubbornly and desperately only consider what helps your theory! It's the same thing with you on every Jackson related topic! What reason do you have to believe Michael can play?
The credits on his albums! He's been around musicans all his life! It's not totally unthinkable that he can play a bit! [Edited 11/12/07 12:48pm] | |
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can we all just agree that Michael and Prince can learn from each other about fan treatment and productivity and just end this argument?  "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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PatrickS77 said: midnightmover said: You are saying you think Mike can play an instrument. Like I said before, you have no evidence to support that claim, so please don't expect us to take it seriously. Yes, and you have no evidence to the contrary, so don't expect us to take you serious!
What reason do you have to believe Michael can play? The credits on his albums! He's been around musicans all his life! It's not totally unthinkable that he can play a bit!
LOL!!! You just finished telling us how you were bored with me and here you are again trying to get my attention when I'm talking to someone else. One thing's for certain you are certainly not bored with me. You can't keep away from me.
What's more you don't even have anything to add. You're coming back with the same arguments I already took a sledgehammer to. You obviously missed it. Let me knock these babies down again, and see if you can follow me this time. Yes, and you have no evidence to the contrary, so don't expect us to take you serious!
You have it twisted. If someone makes an unsubstantiated claim (as whatsgoingon has) then the onus is on them to prove it. They are the ones that need to provide evidence. Otherwise you have anarchy. For instance, I could claim to have fucked Madonna last night and technically you wouldn't be able to prove I didn't. However, you could use your common sense and ask me to back up my claim. If I couldn't back up the claim then you could quite rightly laugh me out the door. Similarly, I've asked whatsgoingon for some evidence to back up her claim that Mike can play and she's given none. Therefore I can't take her claim seriously. That's the point. You've now stepped in talking about liner notes, a point I already dealt with, but I'll break it down for you again since it obviously went over your head. Now concentrate... Artists are frequently credited on sleeves for minimal contributions. Often they'll want to feel more involved so the producer will give them a simple one note part to overdub and the artist will be credited. Hence Madonna's and Janet's occasional keyboard credits. I don't think even their biggest fans think they can really play keyboards, but it looks good on the sleeve. With modern technology an artist can strum a chord on a guitar and a producer can loop it and distort it so it's playing all through the song. American Idol judge Simon Cowell played tambourine on some Westlife tracks. He freely admits he was hopeless, but he's still credited on the sleeve, and gets paid for his contribution everytime those songs are played on radio. He even joined the Musicians Union. If you were naive you'd look at the sleeve and go "Wow, Simon Cowell's a musician! It says so on the sleeve." Now the upshot of this is that artist credits cannot be taken at face value. If Mike could play then Quincy would know and he would have mentioned it. Teddy Riley would know and would have mentioned it. If Mike could play we would have seen him play by now in studio or rehearsal footage. He's given interviews in studios talking about his music. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to illustrate a point by playing the piano for a moment if he could. I've heard of no other artist who can play, but has never actually been seen playing. Can you name one?[Edited 11/12/07 13:44pm] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
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moonshine said: DawnD said: It matters not, really due to the fact the Justin Timberlake and even his Royal Badness himself has yet to even attempt to accomplish what MJ did years, upon years ago.
and whats that exactly , release 2 classic albums and a few very good other ones since , Prince had accomplished that by 1984 , it took Jacko until 1992 to even come close to making as much excellent music as Prince had done 8 years previous . Jacko's album might have sold more than anyone elses , but at the end of the day Thriller was just 9 songs , same as Purple Rain . Prince has released far more high quality music than Jackson has in his solo career , probably more than Jacko did with the Jackson 5 too , and for any true fan of the MUSIC thats whats really important . Jackson fans have to make do with discussing past achievements and past sales bless them . Let me tell you something , you can spout his album and single sales ad nauseum for the rest of time , but it'll never give you the sheer joy that Prince fans get to actually listening to music that Prince released from albums like Parade and Sign O The Times that didnt come close to selling what Thriller did . Prince fans have more MUSIC , Jacko fans just have more statistics , whats the bassline like on that 100 million sales figure mate ? [Edited 11/11/07 18:17pm] Ooh, touchy! See, I was trying to make a point that it's cool to shit on MJ and what he so-call lacks. But, with Prince it's all good with whatever, whenever. Look, fact of the matter is we are not going to agree where these two men are concerned. Now, why is that? Hell, I'll go even further and answer. It's because fans, well some fans think one is better than the other. Some fans prefer one over the other. Hell, that's fine. Fans have a right to choose. But, what trips me out is when we (yes, I said we) throw in tours, albums sales, playing instruments and shit-thinking one could shit all over the other! And, no Prince hasn't accomplished and broken the records that MJ has! It's a fact. Hell, countless upon countless of artists have not. But, in Prince's case that doesn't make him less of a genius. It doesn't make him less of an artist. But, for some reason that seems to be the order of the day around here. Unless somelike likes a certain artist and others don't feel the same way, that particular artist is less than desirable and lacks talent to them. We like different artist and one my touch me or you more than the other, if they touch us at all. It's all a matter of opinion as to which artist is better any damn way! It's great that Prince tours! It's great that he released an album last year and this year! I'm too happy for his accomplishments. But, I'm beyond crazy for what MJ has accomplished and look forward to what he has to offer whenever HE SEES FIT to release whatever material he wishes, whenever he wishes. You don't dig MJ's stuff, fine. That's your choice! But, what trips me the hell out is folks have the audacity to look down upon some that do dig his stuff along with some other artists. To each his/her own. Like I've said before, love who you love. Cause, I am! | |
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floetcist said: This thread needs more...lovesexy, peace and hapiness.
 OMG!!!!! Thank you so very much for that! Those photos made my day! 
[Edited 11/11/07 19:25pm] | |
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electrorock said: PatrickS77 said: Well, he has also released much more crappy and mediocre songs than Michael! All this comparisons are getting so boring and ridiculous! It's different styles of working! Sade, Peter Gabriel and Stevie Wonder also have a little output of work and long phases between albums... so are they worth less as artists?? No, they are not! So why don't you just stop this discussion! If we MJ Fans would like Prince more, than we would be bigger Prince Fans but we or I don't! I like Prince a lot, but I like Michael much more! MJ has less bad songs and also less good songs, so whats ur point? prince is a far better artist than jackson. thats a fact. Nope! That's an opinion!  | |
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bboy87 said: can we all just agree that Michael and Prince can learn from each other about fan treatment and productivity and just end this argument?
I was gonna say the same thing cuzzin'. I was really trying to break down the difference on the treatment of us Fans between the two. This turned into a pissin' contest between the two(like it always does). Next thing u know somebody is gonna say "..well we all know Prince has a bigger Dick than MJ..". | |
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electrorock said: Ellie said: It's not really a fact. The phase I'm in right now would agree with you, so don't even bother arguing with me. It's still not really a "fact". But, hmmm, then again it IS a fact that Prince/MJ are better artists than Britney Spears. So where is the line to determine who's an artist and who's just a puppet pop star?
prince does not need people to produce write arrange compose or play on his songs. prince is a better MUSICIAN (wer talking about music, right?) Mj is a better dancer. but this is about MUSIC. Prince can play more styles and has a bigger output. more diverse and more edgy. prince MAKES his art and does not need anyone. same as P is better than britney, Prince is better than MJ. MJ doesn't need folks to produce, write, arrange, compose or play on his songs either. He chose to have them. Prince is a control freak, now that's a fact and the org know it! But, isn't that one of the many reasons why we love him?
even miles davis said it. ...and i think we can give miles some credit [Edited 11/12/07 4:24am] | |
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PatrickS77 said: electrorock said: MJ has less bad songs and also less good songs, so whats ur point?
My point is that Michael is much more careful with what he releases and doesn't release every song, regardless of how good or bad, just for the sake of releasing it! So my point is, the ratio good vs. bad songs is higher on Michael's side than on Prince's... Michael has the bigger percentage of good songs compared to the bad or mediocre ones! Prince would do great in being more selective of what he actually releases! His catalog is considerably watered down by the crap and mediocre songs and albums! That's a matter of taste and opinion and up for discussion! Agree with you Ellie! electrorock said: prince does not need people to produce write arrange compose or play on his songs. prince is a better MUSICIAN (wer talking about music, right?)
Mj is a better dancer. but this is about MUSIC. Prince can play more styles and has a bigger output. more diverse and more edgy. prince MAKES his art and does not need anyone. Michael also doesn't need them, at least not to produce, write, arrange and compose... like he showed countless times! Prince is a better instrumentalist... so what? We're talking about them as artists, so that includes the whole package... including dancing and performing, creating videos and so on! And that's really all I want to contribute to this pointless and ageold discussion! [Edited 11/12/07 5:10am] Thank you! Thank you so very much for making the distinction between instrumentalist and artist! Gosh! I so love how you flipped that! | |
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Ellie said: whatsgoingon said: Your assuming he doesn't know how to play an instrument at all because he doesn't play one on stage. He never did play an instrument on stage, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a clue. He does actually play the piano but not great and by not playing on stage it just means that he doesn't feel he is proefficient enough and he is not pretending he is either, like some artist do. Right. I'd hate to see MJ try and do what Madonna and Timberlake do in the name of trying to grab onto a shred of credibility. So would I, Ellie. So would I! | |
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electrorock said: midnightmover said: Have you ever actually seen him play the piano? I think not. Therefore, what evidence do you have that he can play it? You're making a huge supposition there based on no real evidence. nononono but MJ fans are always right. They (some of harcore MJ fans) say MJ is INNOCENT cuz there was no evidence n child molesting case. so now theres no evidence but hes guilty, he does play instruments and composes his songs. I understand that you're trying really hard to prove your weak point.
May I point out that one has nothing to do with the other. Go back, rewind and try again! | |
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Ellie said: Oh God, I'm not even getting into that trial shit. I read every transcript, saw every report as they were all uploaded, read into every crack into that case, every book positive and negative as well as 1993. I'm done with it now.
See! That's what I'm talking about! You're on it and poppin' today, Ellie! | |
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bboy87 said: Damn, look at what's happened to this thread
My sentiments exactly. I'm out! Have fun ladies and gentleman. | |
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Bishop31 said: bboy87 said: can we all just agree that Michael and Prince can learn from each other about fan treatment and productivity and just end this argument?
I was gonna say the same thing cuzzin'. I was really trying to break down the difference on the treatment of us Fans between the two. This turned into a pissin' contest between the two(like it always does). Next thing u know somebody is gonna say "..well we all know Prince has a bigger Dick than MJ..". this shit ALWAYS happens. It's old now "We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world." | |
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Right now, Michael and Prince could give a fuck what any of y'all are saying.  | |
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Bishop31 said: bboy87 said: can we all just agree that Michael and Prince can learn from each other about fan treatment and productivity and just end this argument?
I was gonna say the same thing cuzzin'. I was really trying to break down the difference on the treatment of us Fans between the two. This turned into a pissin' contest between the two(like it always does). Next thing u know somebody is gonna say "..well we all know Prince has a bigger Dick than MJ..". Evidence says that's incorrect | |
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Don't tell me we got into that Prince plays 29014832749082340385 instruments and Michael Jackson doesn't bullshit again?
All I got to say is DON'T HATE  White Americans, what? Nothing better to do? Why don't you kick yourself out? You're an immigrant too. -White Stripes | |
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THE TONE OF THIS THREAD HASN'T BEEN LOWERED ENOUGH...
So here's my attempt to lower it even further.
Both MJ & Prince have alluded to having seven-inch shlongs. Prince in Bat dance: "I'm gonna stick the 7-inch in the computer." Cue sounds of love-making... Prince also had a song entitled "Seven" on the Symbol album. Not to mention the rumoured bootleg from The Rainbow Children: 1+1+1(+4)=7.
Meanwhile, MJ sang about a dangerous woman of the night called Susie sticking "seven inches in" on his Blood on the Dancefloor record. So what do we conclude from the above? Well, it's now safe to assume that when it comes to playing the skin-flute, both men are decidedly average. Thank you and goodnight. PS: Go on thread, recover from that!  Recover! I dare ya!
Ellie said: Bishop31 said: I was gonna say the same thing cuzzin'. I was really trying to break down the difference on the treatment of us Fans between the two. This turned into a pissin' contest between the two(like it always does). Next thing u know somebody is gonna say "..well we all know Prince has a bigger Dick than MJ..". Evidence says that's incorrect | |
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papaaisaway said: THE TONE OF THIS THREAD HASN'T BEEN LOWERED ENOUGH...
So here's my attempt to lower it even further.
Both MJ & Prince have alluded to having seven-inch shlongs. Prince in Bat dance: "I'm gonna stick the 7-inch in the computer." Cue sounds of love-making... Prince also had a song entitled "Seven" on the Symbol album. Not to mention the rumoured bootleg from The Rainbow Children: 1+1+1(+4)=7.
Meanwhile, MJ sang about a dangerous woman of the night called Susie sticking "seven inches in" on his Blood on the Dancefloor record. So what do we conclude from the above? Well, it's now safe to assume that when it comes to playing the skin-flute, both men are decidedly average. Thank you and goodnight. PS: Go on thread, recover from that! Recover! I dare ya!
Ellie said: Evidence says that's incorrect Well, I guess I started this from my comment. Damn...well from pix already posted on The Org in the numerous Prince pix threads(the infamous picture with his schlong print on the side of his pants) Prince has more visual proof than MJ...  [Edited 11/12/07 16:31pm] | |
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