roxy831 said:

Krystalkisses said:

roxy831 said: I have heard others say this as well. What makes me doubt that was Mayte's book were it just seemed like he was passively aggressively trying to get Mayte to leave him. And how he was telling her stuff to wear her hair like Manuela's curly instead of straight, where he previously liked Mayte's hair straight. It just seemed like he was emotionally done with the marriage but didn't want the confrontation of ending it and Manuela was in his sights. Even though I'm sure he had other women during that time , as playthings, but he was evaluating Mani as his next wife. I only bring this up because I wonder if his 2nd divorce really accelerated his drug abuse. I do suspect it was a major factor in their divorce.

I feel what you're saying, Krystal, but I choose not to go there. Though P wrote "My Little Pill" for the soundtrack of a movie back in '92, I don't think he was too far from telling us the truth in that song.

A pixie does my laundry and the universe, my will.

Pixies do not, however, clean bathrooms. (Apparently.)

1Sasha said:

1Sasha said:

Francis77 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

roxy831 said:

I don't. Rebound from traumatic first marriage.

co-sign

Again, it was not 1 incident that triggered this, but multiple. I am not debating on which marriage was more or less. Each one had an impact.

I also believe that Prince himself could not or was not able to allow himself to be content/happy deep down. I mean, he had times of happiness and had fun, but deep down, I believe Prince could not "let go". Tony M mentioned the time they went to the beach and Prince stayed in the car. Prince could not let go of the image and just have fun.

We are all "wired" differently. Prince is no exception. My logic of Prince not have the ability for true happiness is kinda a reflection of my life. At some point, I made the conscious decision to let go or as I like to call it, jump of the cliff.And I am glad I jumped.

Prince was so consumed with his image, brand and music, I believe, he could not have inate happiness. During the 1st marriage at the end, he turned to music, Mayte alludes to vicodin missing. Same with the second marriage. But it is not only about marriages, but life. For a long time, music was his escape and therapy.

I look at it this way, this shy, tiny kid from MPLS, picked on in school, lonely, etc. Music was his way of overcoming all that. People respecting him, asking him for a handout. He was not sitting outside McDonalds smelling the food anymore. Right? But over time, fame, loneliness all that affected Prince's wiring. Anytime, like us all, we could make a different decision. Not focus on an upcoming album and focus on the marriage and loss for example. Or not worry about what people think and get help with an addiction.

Prince, I believe, hard a hard time letting go emotionally to people. Not all people around him wanted something. I am sure there were people (maybe only a few) who genuinely cared for him, not as Prince, but as Prince Rogers Nelson.

Lastly, until Prince was willing and wanting help, no one could help him. The most important step to help is seeking and wanting it. Otherwise, it is useless and falls on deaf ears.

disch said:

No she wasn’t on the interview list. The investigator did ask Judith hill who his previous girlfriends were and she named Andy and Bria but there’s nothing in the docs about any follow up with that info. 1Sasha said:

Wasn't there a line in Rock & Roll Love Affair about marrying the second time (I'm paraphrasing) out of despair, with the Andy Allo supporters taking this song to mean he was head over heels for AA - that it was true and pure love? Any investigator interview her?

Judith also emphasized how they, especially, might have useful insights. The investigation was undoubtedly weighted toward the present, and finding the source of the substances that ended Prince's life. But others from earlier years were interviewed, and insights from the past can shed light on more recent events, even when it comes down to details. Maybe they declined interviews. Maybe it says somewhere in the documents, but I'm not remembering. Should read through again. Does anyone know?

Krystalkisses said:

Yes nelcp777. That was profound and insightful. Thank you for those examples. They were very telling. I agree at the core of addiction there is always an underlying reason for it. This isn't my own thought but something I learned, you can only feel comfortable with vulnrability if you feel safe. I don't think Prince grew up that way and I think PP was his attempt of creating safety for himself. [Edited 6/5/18 9:53am]

I agree. Found nelcp777's thoughts beautiful and wise. And happy for you, nelcp777.

Thank you to the many people here speaking of complexities. It's tough, when people are tired of being silenced (or called "Prince-haters") by others with simple minded (and sometimes outrageous) ideas, to keep from guarding against complexity. Yet real life, and people (the overwhelming majority of people, anyway), are complex.

As far as reasons underlying addiction, biological predisposition can contribute to addiction running in families.

This reminds me that when people speak of people being staunchly "antidrug," even that can be a complex idea. For one example, it's not uncommon for children of addicted people to hate addiction. It's also not uncommon for these same children to struggle with addiction themselves at some point in their lives.

In my mind, just another reason to try to despise the disorder vs. the sufferers and afflicted families.

As for some real "evils" in this story, my bets are on things like stigma and the downsides of celebrity.

rednblue said:

Genesia said:

roxy831 said:

I feel what you're saying, Krystal, but I choose not to go there. Though P wrote "My Little Pill" for the soundtrack of a movie back in '92, I don't think he was too far from telling us the truth in that song.

A pixie does my laundry and the universe, my will.

Pixies do not, however, clean bathrooms. (Apparently.)

bonatoc said that too, i just hope it wasn't really autobiographical.

rednblue said:

Thank you to the many people here speaking of complexities. It's tough, when people are tired of being silenced (or called "Prince-haters") by others with simple minded (and sometimes outrageous) ideas, to keep from guarding against complexity. Yet real life, and people (the overwhelming majority of people, anyway), are complex.

As far as reasons underlying addiction, biological predisposition can contribute to addiction running in families.

This reminds me that when people speak of people being staunchly "antidrug," even that can be a complex idea. For one example, it's not uncommon for children of addicted people to hate addiction. It's also not uncommon for these same children to struggle with addiction themselves at some point in their lives.

In my mind, just another reason to try to despise the disorder vs. the sufferers and afflicted families.

As for some real "evils" in this story, my bets are on things like stigma and the downsides of celebrity.

i believe addiction is universal, i never touched drugs or alcohol, i hate even taking prescriptions but my thoughts are obsessive, angry, also sex is an addiction, maybe the worst as far as creating problems for a lot of men (myself included) but.., my personal belief is that money and power are the biggest addictions in this country, how many idiots running around in petty positions acting like they are king of the world? A lot of them, more of them than all the drug addicts combined.

Krystalkisses said:

rednblue said:

Thank you to the many people here speaking of complexities. It's tough, when people are tired of being silenced (or called "Prince-haters") by others with simple minded (and sometimes outrageous) ideas, to keep from guarding against complexity. Yet real life, and people (the overwhelming majority of people, anyway), are complex.

As far as reasons underlying addiction, biological predisposition can contribute to addiction running in families.

This reminds me that when people speak of people being staunchly "antidrug," even that can be a complex idea. For one example, it's not uncommon for children of addicted people to hate addiction. It's also not uncommon for these same children to struggle with addiction themselves at some point in their lives.

In my mind, just another reason to try to despise the disorder vs. the sufferers and afflicted families.

As for some real "evils" in this story, my bets are on things like stigma and the downsides of celebrity.

Thanks for recognizing and acknowledging that many of us are not out to bash Prince, tarnish his reputation or being "haters". There is deeper knowledge and lessons in this story that can be very valuable and this tragedy does not have to be in vain. How perceptive , I didn't see the resistance by some as manipulation and obsucate the complexity. Wow. Yes I think what you said about the "antidrug" and "healthy living" image was spot on and a sort of reaction formation psychological rationalization. I can't imagine what kind of cognitive dissonance that must have caused for Prince. I really wish God would have given him more time to go deeper and get it right here on earth. My heart aches for that man, truly and for his personal friends and family who loved him.

Thank you, Krystalkisses. Serious health conditions such as heart disease, addiction, cancer, Alzheimers, etc. often put those afflicted and their loved ones through hell. Treatment is in some cases very difficult. IMO, stigma, judgement and lack of respect/compassion don't help people to get better. Yes, people make choices in life that affect health...but it's not an even playing field, everyone struggles, and nobody has walked in another's shoes.

[Edited 6/5/18 11:21am]

[Edited 6/5/18 19:04pm]

PeteSilas said:

rednblue said:

Thank you to the many people here speaking of complexities. It's tough, when people are tired of being silenced (or called "Prince-haters") by others with simple minded (and sometimes outrageous) ideas, to keep from guarding against complexity. Yet real life, and people (the overwhelming majority of people, anyway), are complex.

As far as reasons underlying addiction, biological predisposition can contribute to addiction running in families.

This reminds me that when people speak of people being staunchly "antidrug," even that can be a complex idea. For one example, it's not uncommon for children of addicted people to hate addiction. It's also not uncommon for these same children to struggle with addiction themselves at some point in their lives.

In my mind, just another reason to try to despise the disorder vs. the sufferers and afflicted families.

As for some real "evils" in this story, my bets are on things like stigma and the downsides of celebrity.

i believe addiction is universal, i never touched drugs or alcohol, i hate even taking prescriptions but my thoughts are obsessive, angry, also sex is an addiction, maybe the worst as far as creating problems for a lot of men (myself included) but.., my personal belief is that money and power are the biggest addictions in this country, how many idiots running around in petty positions acting like they are king of the world? A lot of them, more of them than all the drug addicts combined.

Thanks for all of your thoughts, Pete! As for money and power, Prince seemed to do some painful wrestling with these issues as well. NOT that he was power or money hungry. Just that he'd experienced poverty and abuse. It seems these experiences always stay with a person.

P sure did have some great songs that could remind himself, and all of us, that power and money are not keys to happiness. The music is such a gift, in countless ways. Every day brings me many reminders.

rednblue said:

Krystalkisses said:

Yes nelcp777. That was profound and insightful. Thank you for those examples. They were very telling. I agree at the core of addiction there is always an underlying reason for it. This isn't my own thought but something I learned, you can only feel comfortable with vulnrability if you feel safe. I don't think Prince grew up that way and I think PP was his attempt of creating safety for himself. [Edited 6/5/18 9:53am]

I agree. Found nelcp777's thoughts beautiful and wise. And happy for you, nelcp777.

Thanks! It is a day to day thing though. My wiring is permanent, but can be changed. I have to make an effort. Hope that makes sense.

rednblue said:

PeteSilas said:

i believe addiction is universal, i never touched drugs or alcohol, i hate even taking prescriptions but my thoughts are obsessive, angry, also sex is an addiction, maybe the worst as far as creating problems for a lot of men (myself included) but.., my personal belief is that money and power are the biggest addictions in this country, how many idiots running around in petty positions acting like they are king of the world? A lot of them, more of them than all the drug addicts combined.

Thanks for all of your thoughts, Pete! As for money and power, Prince seemed to do some painful wrestling with these issues as well. NOT that he was power or money hungry. Just that he'd experienced poverty and abuse. It seems these experiences always stay with a person.

P sure did have some great songs that could remind himself, and all of us, that power and money are not keys to happiness. The music is such a gift, in countless ways. Every day brings me many reminders.

those things aren't, i isolate myself because of it because honestly they all turn my stomach. It's a seductive thing, I have an east indian friend, when he first got here, he took the bus, he worked all the time at a demeaning job, never talked about money or material things, then.., i taught him to drive, he spent 50 thousand on two cars, now he wants a house (the so called american dream) I've been trying to tell him that that isn't the way to go but it's too late. His son now is always showing me cars on his iphone, so that's how it happens, its' seductive, just like a drug, people who start out one way end up another. Do I care? Not really, I don't have a problem with envy or jealousy but I also don't get impressed by those things. I can honestly say, i've been around all strata of this society and the most miserable have definitely, definitely been the ones with nicest houses, the money etc.., I've had friends abandon me because I don't care about all that, but that's ok with me, or it'll have to be. If i have a dream, it would only be to have facilities like Prince did on a much, much smaller scale to work on my craft. Anything would be for vanity.

nelcp777 said:

rednblue said:

I agree. Found nelcp777's thoughts beautiful and wise. And happy for you, nelcp777.

Thanks! It is a day to day thing though. My wiring is permanent, but can be changed. I have to make an effort. Hope that makes sense.

I could learn a lot from you, nelcp777.

I'm wired unusually. So are many of the flock of folks I come from. In our case, each person has a different spin on the unusual wiring. Also, all this brings advantages and disadvantages. Some days come with a lot of struggles. There are days when I put a LOT of dollars in P's curse jar, LOL.

rednblue said:

Thank you to the many people here speaking of complexities. It's tough, when people are tired of being silenced (or called "Prince-haters") by others with simple minded (and sometimes outrageous) ideas, to keep from guarding against complexity. Yet real life, and people (the overwhelming majority of people, anyway), are complex.

As far as reasons underlying addiction, biological predisposition can contribute to addiction running in families.

This reminds me that when people speak of people being staunchly "antidrug," even that can be a complex idea. For one example, it's not uncommon for children of addicted people to hate addiction. It's also not uncommon for these same children to struggle with addiction themselves at some point in their lives.

In my mind, just another reason to try to despise the disorder vs. the sufferers and afflicted families.

As for some real "evils" in this story, my bets are on things like stigma and the downsides of celebrity.

YES and YES...thanks for this post.

PeteSilas said:

rednblue said:

Thanks for all of your thoughts, Pete! As for money and power, Prince seemed to do some painful wrestling with these issues as well. NOT that he was power or money hungry. Just that he'd experienced poverty and abuse. It seems these experiences always stay with a person.

P sure did have some great songs that could remind himself, and all of us, that power and money are not keys to happiness. The music is such a gift, in countless ways. Every day brings me many reminders.

those things aren't, i isolate myself because of it because honestly they all turn my stomach. It's a seductive thing, I have an east indian friend, when he first got here, he took the bus, he worked all the time at a demeaning job, never talked about money or material things, then.., i taught him to drive, he spent 50 thousand on two cars, now he wants a house (the so called american dream) I've been trying to tell him that that isn't the way to go but it's too late. His son now is always showing me cars on his iphone, so that's how it happens, its' seductive, just like a drug, people who start out one way end up another. Do I care? Not really, I don't have a problem with envy or jealousy but I also don't get impressed by those things. I can honestly say, i've been around all strata of this society and the most miserable have definitely, definitely been the ones with nicest houses, the money etc.., I've had friends abandon me because I don't care about all that, but that's ok with me, or it'll have to be. If i have a dream, it would only be to have facilities like Prince did on a much, much smaller scale to work on my craft. Anything would be for vanity.

Very, very seductive, and I'm so sorry about the lost friends. What a terrible reason to abandon a friend. Wonder if they'll ever come to their senses.

[Edited 6/5/18 11:45am]

nelcp777 said:

PeteSilas said:

rednblue said:

nelcp777 said:

Thanks! It is a day to day thing though. My wiring is permanent, but can be changed. I have to make an effort. Hope that makes sense.

I could learn a lot from you, nelcp777.

I'm wired unusually. So are many of the flock of folks I come from. In our case, each person has a different spin on the unusual wiring. Also, all this brings advantages and disadvantages. Some days come with a lot of struggles. There are days when I put a LOT of dollars in P's curse jar, LOL.

I am still learning myself. I am with you on the curse jar. We are all wired differently, but at times, we may come to the same decision or actions. Life experiences make that happen.

Prince's passing was hard and definitely not expected. And I have never personally met him. And I damn sure am not judging him. I try to make sense of things. I believe that the public Prince and non-public Prince are 2 entirely different personas.

It is a little different to see Prince as a "normal human" due to the public persona. But it is cool as hell. His struggles, his wiring, his actions do not detriment him as a person or his work. It just empowers it more. Make sense?

The ME released exactly what they were legally required/allowed to release (the autopsy summary listing their findings such as cause of death and secondary contributing factors) and simply stated that minnesota law prevented them from releasing anything outside of that (such as the full autopsy file which includes lots of photos, detailed descriptions of body parts, etc). They just quoted MN law to stave off inquiries from the media that they are legally not permitted to answer, I assume. It's absurd to purport that shows the ME "discovered something" that they're essentially hiding.

PennyPurple said:

bondno9 said:

We do not know what medical info was discovered during postmortem examination (external and internal). For example, were any diseases present? Were tissue samples taken? That is the missing piece. The medical examiner obviously discovered something in order to announce the information could not be publiclly released.

No, the full autopsy wasn't released to the public because that is MN law and won't be released to the public by MN for 30 years. They didn't have to 'find something' to keep it private.

Krystalkisses said:

Krystalkisses said:

I want to apologize to anyone I acted rudely towards. I do acknowledge Prince's flaws, his insecurities, his frailties, his mistakes, his pettiness etc. If I am harsh towards posters, its only that I think Prince should not be DEMONIZED. "Humanized" is fine. To me, demonizing occurs when one only focuses on the negative aspects of Prince, his life, and his associates. I ask posters to please not ignore the better angels of people's nature, the complex emotions all of them may have experienced, the moments in which people tried to do the right thing, the times when Prince engaged in passionate expressions of himself through music, the hard work he [for better and worst] engaged in and the times in which humor and warmth were described by his associates. We shouldn't (IMO) assume only the worst. We should (once again IMO) try to reconcile the good and bad aspects of Prince's world with understanding and empathy -- rather than judgment. . Please avoid writing about living and once-living human beings as caricatures, cliches or symbols of rock star decadence.. But, I will try from this point on to merely disagree with depictions that bug me or which I disagree with and do so without judging the posters based merely on their opinions. But keep in mind folks if you call other folks naive, gulliable etc.. for believing that perhaps P had physical pain or an illness (along with the obvious indications of drug dependence as revealed by his death and the reports) --you are engaged in the same attacks you are sometimes receiving for your own opinions. Even with the reports, our knowledge is still limited because we simply weren't there. Don't get me wrong...when employees steal P's money, we have a right to call them out...I just don't think we should assume those same people are also murderers or guilty of intentional neglect when other explanations are possible. Also, I think it is important to remember that police and FBI are not looking for good behavior...they are looking for behaviors that might imply people helping P acquire drugs.

[Edited 6/5/18 20:50pm]

Krystalkisses said:

Thank you Purplerabbithole. I agree with you.

206Michelle said:

Krystalkisses said:

I have heard others say this as well. What makes me doubt that was Mayte's book were it just seemed like he was passively aggressively trying to get Mayte to leave him. And how he was telling her stuff to wear her hair like Manuela's curly instead of straight, where he previously liked Mayte's hair straight. It just seemed like he was emotionally done with the marriage but didn't want the confrontation of ending it and Manuela was in his sights. Even though I'm sure he had other women during that time , as playthings, but he was evaluating Mani as his next wife. I only bring this up because I wonder if his 2nd divorce really accelerated his drug abuse. I do suspect it was a major factor in their divorce.

I also suspect that the pain killers may have played a role in he and Mani’s divorce. However, I think that the number 1 reason for the divorce, on Prince’s end, were the trust/attachment/abandonment issues. I also wonder if fertility issues/difficulty having children and religious beliefs played a role as well. Not that it’s any of my business to know this, but I’m newsy and interested nonetheless. I wonder if Mani became interested in/converted to the JW faith in order to gain access to a serious relationship with Prince. She’s not a JW anymore, as far as I know.

206Michelle said: