disch said:

Agree. Its a little strange to read some posts here that sound like it’s not clear that an official 2 year investigation was conducted, that the investigators came to a particular conclusion (that his death was an accident from of self administered Fentanyl contained in counterfeit pills he didn’t know were toxically laced), and that there was a lot of information revealed that shows that his opioid use was a major health problem for him toward the end of his life. - People can reject the investigators conclusions for a variety of reasons, but there isn’t any official ongoing investigation that’s going to reveal something different than that. For all intents and purposes It’s done. - PennyPurple said:

Identity said:

He was getting help for opioid dependence. In spite of that, he couldn't resist the impulse to self-medicate with illegally obtained pills. We know what happened next. I'm predicting no one will be arrested and the lawsuit the estate has filed against WalGreens and the Moline Hospital will be dismissed by a federal judge.

He hadn't even begun to get help for opioid dependency. No one will be arrested because the case is closed unless new evidence comes to light. Which after 2 years, chances are probably nil.

[Edited 5/20/18 10:42am]

There you and Penny go again with rationality and logic...better watch out...it could make you unpopular here!

Relax, bozos, I was responding to the previous poster.

Identity said:

Relax, bozos, I was responding to the previous poster.

Makes no difference who you were responding to, your statement is wrong.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

Agree. Its a little strange to read some posts here that sound like it’s not clear that an official 2 year investigation was conducted, that the investigators came to a particular conclusion (that his death was an accident from of self administered Fentanyl contained in counterfeit pills he didn’t know were toxically laced), and that there was a lot of information revealed that shows that his opioid use was a major health problem for him toward the end of his life. - People can reject the investigators conclusions for a variety of reasons, but there isn’t any official ongoing investigation that’s going to reveal something different than that. For all intents and purposes It’s done. - PennyPurple said:

There you and Penny go again with rationality and logic...better watch out...it could make you unpopular here!

H'mmmm, has anybody seen or heard from Phaedra?

TheEquilizer said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

H'mmmm, has anybody seen or heard from Phaedra?

Probably somewhere counting dollars.....like LLM...and CK...and PC

[Edited 5/20/18 16:47pm]

zenarose said:

TheEquilizer said:

H'mmmm, has anybody seen or heard from Phaedra?

Probably somewhere counting dollars.....like LLM...and CK...and PC

[Edited 5/20/18 16:47pm]

zenarose said:

zenarose said:

TheEquilizer said:

H'mmmm, has anybody seen or heard from Phaedra?

Probably somewhere counting dollars.....like LLM...and CK...and PC

RJP1205 said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

So Prince, who fought for his first record deal & got it, who fought for a movie deal when he was completely out of his element and got it, who fought for freedom from his WB contract and got it, who fought for his masters and got them...gets a curable illness and says to himself ok, I'm done ...

Exactly. Believe it or not.

-

See it as a mixture of ;

- ignoring the problem

- not believing being addicted

- shame

- affraid / fear

- stubornness

- trusting no one

- no time to find help

- way too busy

- religious rules

- lonelyness

- hoping it will go away

Vannormal said:

Vannormal said:

RJP1205 said:

TrcikyChristopher said: So Prince, who fought for his first record deal & got it, who fought for a movie deal when he was completely out of his element and got it, who fought for freedom from his WB contract and got it, who fought for his masters and got them...gets a curable illness and says to himself ok, I'm done ...

Exactly. Believe it or not.

-

See it as a mixture of ;

- ignoring the problem

- not believing being addicted

- shame

- affraid / fear

- stubornness

- trusting no one

- no time to find help

- way too busy

- religious rules

- lonelyness

- hoping it will go away

In other words, DENIAL...the central problem in every addict's life.

JMO but I think he was swirling in an abyss - his career, his love life, his emotional pain, his physical pain, his addiction. I still believe there was something other than "simply" addiction - some other illness or affliction. AOA, to me, was his goodbye letter. He was putting his affairs in order the last two years and it got to a point where he was done. He wasn't supposed to survive Moline - at least in his mind - the plane could be landed soon enough, before he died? The NARCAN would bring him back - two hits? Then he woke up, the world knew, and everything fell apart. Take your belongings out of PP, go on vacation to see your family down south, leave me alone and unprotected by security ... Just too much of a confluence of events for me.

I haven't read a lot about how common/unusual for him to be overnight at PP alone with no security. Kirk did say that the electronic security system had been off since pre-2009, so the "no security" thing might have been pretty typical.

-

On the night of 4/20-21, the time between when Meron/Kirk left and when the arrived the next day was 12 hours or so. So not a hugely long period of time.

1Sasha said:

JMO but I think he was swirling in an abyss - his career, his love life, his emotional pain, his physical pain, his addiction. I still believe there was something other than "simply" addiction - some other illness or affliction. AOA, to me, was his goodbye letter. He was putting his affairs in order the last two years and it got to a point where he was done. He wasn't supposed to survive Moline - at least in his mind - the plane could be landed soon enough, before he died? The NARCAN would bring him back - two hits? Then he woke up, the world knew, and everything fell apart. Take your belongings out of PP, go on vacation to see your family down south, leave me alone and unprotected by security ... Just too much of a confluence of events for me.

1Sasha said:

JMO but I think he was swirling in an abyss - his career, his love life, his emotional pain, his physical pain, his addiction. I still believe there was something other than "simply" addiction - some other illness or affliction. AOA, to me, was his goodbye letter. He was putting his affairs in order the last two years and it got to a point where he was done. He wasn't supposed to survive Moline - at least in his mind - the plane could be landed soon enough, before he died? The NARCAN would bring him back - two hits? Then he woke up, the world knew, and everything fell apart. Take your belongings out of PP, go on vacation to see your family down south, leave me alone and unprotected by security ... Just too much of a confluence of events for me.

ya, all too coincidental, kills me though, just kills me.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Vannormal said:

Exactly. Believe it or not.

-

See it as a mixture of ;

- ignoring the problem

- not believing being addicted

- shame

- affraid / fear

- stubornness

- trusting no one

- no time to find help

- way too busy

- religious rules

- lonelyness

- hoping it will go away

In other words, DENIAL...the central problem in every addict's life.

as i said when the investigation first came out, we'll be going around in circles still more. none of it really makes sense, that's where I believe some other illness comes in the picture really. I don't see how a guy who could deny himself rest, sleep, food, would be so helpless when it came to a drug, i think he knew exactly what he was doing and why. I just don't know though, i wake up everyday thinking different.

PeteSilas said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

PeteSilas said:

as i said when the investigation first came out, we'll be going around in circles still more. none of it really makes sense, that's where I believe some other illness comes in the picture really. I don't see how a guy who could deny himself rest, sleep, food, would be so helpless when it came to a drug, i think he knew exactly what he was doing and why. I just don't know though, i wake up everyday thinking different.

Chronic pain is an illness, but people on here want to give him other illnesses besides chronic pain

i don't know.

but maybe what you thought you knew about him was wrong (this goes for all of us, not just you). So rather than thinking, "the facts/circumstances don't fit what I know about how he thought and acted, thus the facts/circumsatances must be false/incomplete. etc." we could think "the facts/circumstances don't fit what I know about how he thought and acted, thus what I know about how he thought and acted must be false/incomplete. etc."

PeteSilas said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

In other words, DENIAL...the central problem in every addict's life.

as i said when the investigation first came out, we'll be going around in circles still more. none of it really makes sense, that's where I believe some other illness comes in the picture really. I don't see how a guy who could deny himself rest, sleep, food, would be so helpless when it came to a drug, i think he knew exactly what he was doing and why. I just don't know though, i wake up everyday thinking different.

disch said:

but maybe what you thought you knew about him was wrong (this goes for all of us, not just you). So rather than thinking, "the facts/circumstances don't fit what I know about how he thought and acted, thus the facts/circumsatances must be false/incomplete. etc." we could think "the facts/circumstances don't fit what I know about how he thought and acted, thus what I know about how he thought and acted must be false/incomplete. etc."

PeteSilas said:

as i said when the investigation first came out, we'll be going around in circles still more. none of it really makes sense, that's where I believe some other illness comes in the picture really. I don't see how a guy who could deny himself rest, sleep, food, would be so helpless when it came to a drug, i think he knew exactly what he was doing and why. I just don't know though, i wake up everyday thinking different.

that's true, how do we know how long he did drugs, how do we know if all the susan rogers etc.., were wrong about his drug use all along. the "four hours sleep" was maybe drugs, maybe, we don't know. I remember first seriously studying my hero, Bruce Lee, and being in denial about some of the stories, just because of the image he projected. Bruce Lee projected total strength and control so when i'd read a story about him not showing up on set because he was nervous or that he needed hashish to relax and that's probably what killed him, you think "no, he's too pure, too smart" but we don't know, you're right.

also, i was reading up on opioids yesterday, one guy said he could do more work without sleep, i thought "that sounds familiar".

TrcikyChristopher said:

Another angle is: He might have changed over the years. What Susan Rogers knew about him in the 80s might have been absolutely true... then. But everyone's pretty different at 57 than 27.

PeteSilas said:

disch said:

but maybe what you thought you knew about him was wrong (this goes for all of us, not just you). So rather than thinking, "the facts/circumstances don't fit what I know about how he thought and acted, thus the facts/circumsatances must be false/incomplete. etc." we could think "the facts/circumstances don't fit what I know about how he thought and acted, thus what I know about how he thought and acted must be false/incomplete. etc."

that's true, how do we know how long he did drugs, how do we know if all the susan rogers etc.., were wrong about his drug use all along. the "four hours sleep" was maybe drugs, maybe, we don't know. I remember first seriously studying my hero, Bruce Lee, and being in denial about some of the stories, just because of the image he projected. Bruce Lee projected total strength and control so when i'd read a story about him not showing up on set because he was nervous or that he needed hashish to relax and that's probably what killed him, you think "no, he's too pure, too smart" but we don't know, you're right.

disch said:

honestly, we've heard so many different things from so many different people, so as you say we really don't know.

Also, to remember that such a condition doesn't preclude being disciplined about many things.

So some of the seeming "contradictions" may not have been contradictions at all.

PeteSilas said:

ya, mj for me, was the first of my childhood heroes, from my own era (ie, not elvis, jimi) to go and it made me feel old and very sad of course. however, i worried about MJ for years, i thought he really was a broken man after the trials/molestation stuff and I really didn't think the rest of his life would go smoothly. Prince? really just blindsided me, as i said, the only positive was that I'd had experience with losing heroes before. As a musician, these guys mean a little different a thing than they do to the rest of you, not to say i'm better or anything like that, it's when one of your key influences go, it really does feel a bit like a parent dying.

I'm a musician too, Pete. And yes, Prince's death went down just like that with me. Took me several months before I could even smile. I feel ya....

roxy831 said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, mj for me, was the first of my childhood heroes, from my own era (ie, not elvis, jimi) to go and it made me feel old and very sad of course. however, i worried about MJ for years, i thought he really was a broken man after the trials/molestation stuff and I really didn't think the rest of his life would go smoothly. Prince? really just blindsided me, as i said, the only positive was that I'd had experience with losing heroes before. As a musician, these guys mean a little different a thing than they do to the rest of you, not to say i'm better or anything like that, it's when one of your key influences go, it really does feel a bit like a parent dying.

I'm a musician too, Pete. And yes, Prince's death went down just like that with me. Took me several months before I could even smile. I feel ya....

i'm no fan of jannelle monae, not because of anything other than, i just don't know much about her but i just watched an interview where she expressed a lot of sadness and reverence for him too.

Prince just did not seem as vibrant in his last years. He scaled back in both operations and lifestyle. It seems he was living more of a simple and less flamboyant lifestyle. Even his wardrobe was sparse and simplistic.

I am comparing this to the Prince persona most of us are accustomed too. Perhaps Prince was just burned out, creatively the well was running out?

Prince seemed to become more reclusive. Gone was the wardrobe department or salon in PP. He worked with others via email and less in person. Is this contributed to his age, not needing more and so forth?

I think that as a whole, Prince kept his stuff together when you consider his early years and childhood. Did this take a toll on him after 57 years? Did Prince go from taking pain pills for crippling pain to slef-medicating the past?

nelcp777 said:

Prince just did not seem as vibrant in his last years. He scaled back in both operations and lifestyle. It seems he was living more of a simple and less flamboyant lifestyle. Even his wardrobe was sparse and simplistic.

I am comparing this to the Prince persona most of us are accustomed too. Perhaps Prince was just burned out, creatively the well was running out?

Prince seemed to become more reclusive. Gone was the wardrobe department or salon in PP. He worked with others via email and less in person. Is this contributed to his age, not needing more and so forth?

I think that as a whole, Prince kept his stuff together when you consider his early years and childhood. Did this take a toll on him after 57 years? Did Prince go from taking pain pills for crippling pain to slef-medicating the past?

i don't know but what i don't get is why didn't he just stop and address the situation instead of pushing so hard ahead, doing tours and shit. That's a lot of hassle when you're sick, even when you're healthy. kinda sounds backwards and loopy. none of it makes sense yet.

nelcp777 said: