TrcikyChristopher said:

peggyon said:

TrickyChristopher, I know you cannot divulge too much of what you know, but I am curious...in this 2 year "back-and-forth" multi-thread discussion, have any of the org posters "come close" or actually identified the truth of the matter surrounding Prince's health?

Yes. Very close.

Listen. Tricky? Come on. First you said you did not know what it was. Now you are saying you do. So just spit it out. No need for names. No need to blow the lid on anyone. Just say what the ilness was. You yourself said it would not affect his reputation or estate. Just say it.

You said a physical ilness. You said we were close with our assumptions. And you said it was not Aids/HIV. So that leaves:

- organ canc

- artritis

There were no other ilnesses proposed, i don't think? Which one was it?

And what do you mean about asociates alluding to certain things? Like what?

symptoms he had seem to point to Rheumatoid Arthritis

Dimitri10 said:

symptoms he had seem to point to Rheumatoid Arthritis

YES..

not unusual for any man of 57...not to mention one who perfomed like an elite althlete

for most of his life

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

Are the only two reasons for why someone would take opioids

- For physical pain relief

- for "shits and giggles"?

-

I would bet that MORE people take opioids for relief of EMOTIONAL pain and anxiety than for physical pain by a large margin. Emotional pain hurts, it's a real thing, it rarely goes away by itself...those who only cite the two reasons mentioned above for opioid use are insensitive, lack imagination or are simply ignorant.

cloveringold85 said:

Vannormal said:

.

Everyone has their own take on Prince's demise. Yes, he was a man of small stature, and that is why I don't believe he was a long-term user of opioids, because it would have done organ damage a long time ago, and he would have not been able to keep going for as long as he did, imo.

.

We all know Prince was a strong-minded person and taking any type of medication was probably very hard for him to do. He knew he was in trouble and thought he could handle it on his own. He had enablers around him, who ultimately contributed to his early demise. People would not say NO to him, because they wanted the $$$$. Now, Prince is gone and everyone's trying to hide the truth. Their choice.

.

In my opinion, Prince's death was an accident, because he died of illegal Fentanyl toxicity. He had plenty of other Rx's in his home that he could have overdosed on, and didn't need to buy illegal street drugs.

.

He would not want to die in an elevator either.

Prince started using painkillers before 1984.

Imagine that.

After a while, no ordinary painkiller will help. Especially when you won't stop jumping off a stack of speakers for instance. So you build up, slowly the intensification of the use of painkillers.

If you don't do anything about the cause, the basic problem, you end up where he was.

I do believe that the strong-minded Prince sas able to cope with opioids longer than we might think.

Ask any medical authority around you. They'll tell you what's possible and what not.

-

No it wasn't hard for him to take any type of medication. He started very very early, and was a master in being Prince, meaning, he was somehow relentless and straigtforward, din't want to look back. Avoided all confrontations of the emotional and social sorts. Didn't listen to anyone, not even to his own body. Thought he was as strong as his ambitions, kept everyone away from him, didn't trust no one, never seeked for emotional help or therapy, was stuborn to the bone, and prefered to suffer, in secret.

-

Imagine. I wish I was around late 1987, like a fly on the wall, when he spoosedly took that famous XTC or something like that right before he planned the release of The Black Album. On a control freak like Prince, what would influence would a simple drug lke this have? Of course a very very bad trip ! Because if you want to trip good you need to be relaxed, at ease, and relatively well-balanced to be able to enjoy it.

Painkillers on the contrary are a help at first, then after a while, they make you numb, and later on more numb.

Still Prince seemed very clear, basically always when he was in public. Make up helped big time of course.

But we heard from the people around him in the last year, that they thought he was skinn(y)(ier), pale(r), and didn't have much of an appetite. The documents found on his desk to have that much needed information in seeking help in a private clinic to become clean were there, but it was all to late for that matter.

Krystalkisses said:

2004Fan said:

I don't believe P had HIV/AIDS because he kept enjoying sex late in his life it seems. P would not have indulged himself to the point of putting someone's life in jeopardy; and he would certainly not tell this to anybody. He could have had an incurable (not yet terminal) illness for which pain meds would not have been indicated therefore not prescribable by a physician, ergo illegal pain meds. He even might have stopped his meds for his incurable illness (remember the blind item 2 or 3 days before April 21/2016). He may have decided that living whatever length of time he had would be best lived with no pain and he could keep making/playing music until he couldn't. Now regarding morphine clicker/shots/fentanyl patches e.g. palliative care, I don't think he would have wanted to last until then, even in the comfort of his home. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes even if I don't personally agree with what I wrote. Just my opinion.

How do we know he had sexual intercourse in his later years? What about his I'm single, sexy and celebate statement? Also , it was the National Enquirer article that said Prince had AIDS and refused medical treatment saying God will cure me.

What ?

Are you all mad ? Insane ? Informed ?

I can't believe what i read sometimes.

-

Try google, and look up what HIV is and means.

After that, take a week off.

Then look through google again and see what AIDS means.

So you won't mix up things.

AIDS and HIV is not the same.

(You need to be HIV positive in a really far state, to be able to devellop AIDS.)

And there are very few people out there who devellop AIDS from HIV, certainly in the western world.

Why not write LEUKEMIA/BREST CANCER in one phrase too !

Or mention together BROKEN HIP/HEART ATTACK...

-

And what's that with not being open about being HIV positive for instance ? What's wrong with that ? Was it your fault then ? Why keep things secret for that matter ? Why ?

As if one chose to become HIV positive and needs to keep it shut ?

What a world do we live in ? How conservative are people still.

By the way, FYI, I have a lot of HIV friends and all of them still enjoy sex very very much. Both HIV men and women. They don't care, and are able to enjoy life and sex to the fullest. Nothing changed. Thank god they're open about it.

I also sometimes have sex with people that are HIV positive, and i'm not affraid, and I don't discriminate them on any level. It wasn't their choice or fault, and they are NOT dangerous to anyone. Keep things safe and you'll enjoy whatever you like, still.

-

Don't get me wrong. This is not personal. I just am still so surprised of what I read here.

Vannormal said:

Krystalkisses said:

2004Fan said: How do we know he had sexual intercourse in his later years? What about his I'm single, sexy and celebate statement? Also , it was the National Enquirer article that said Prince had AIDS and refused medical treatment saying God will cure me.

What ?

Are you all mad ? Insane ? Informed ?

I can't believe what i read sometimes.

-

Try google, and look up what HIV is and means.

After that, take a week off.

Then look through google again and see what AIDS means.

So you won't mix up things.

AIDS and HIV is not the same.

(You need to be HIV positive in a really far state, to be able to devellop AIDS.)

And there are very few people out there who devellop AIDS from HIV, certainly in the western world.

Why not write LEUKEMIA/BREST CANCER in one phrase too !

Or mention together BROKEN HIP/HEART ATTACK...

-

And what's that with not being open about being HIV positive for instance ? What's wrong with that ? Was it your fault then ? Why keep things secret for that matter ? Why ?

As if one chose to become HIV positive and needs to keep it shut ?

What a world do we live in ? How conservative are people still.

By the way, FYI, I have a lot of HIV friends and all of them still enjoy sex very very much. Both HIV men and women. They don't care, and are able to enjoy life and sex to the fullest. Nothing changed. Thank god they're open about it.

I also sometimes have sex with people that are HIV positive, and i'm not affraid, and I don't discriminate them on any level. It wasn't their choice or fault, and they are NOT dangerous to anyone. Keep things safe and you'll enjoy whatever you like, still.

-

Don't get me wrong. This is not personal. I just am still so surprised of what I read here.

Wow! I'm so sorry for your reaction. I'm well aware of the difference between HIV and AIDS. Futhermore, I have no negative feelings at all regarding people having HIV or AIDS. I was writing about Prince and I don't think he would have admitted being HIV positive to anybody (except a physician), since control of his privacy and image was so important to him. *

Again, I really didn't mean to be disrespectfull. Peace.

ETA: * Therefore, I don't think Prince would have engaged in sex.

[Edited 5/18/18 7:15am]

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

disch said:

No matter what his cause of death, his legacy isn't being overwhelmed as being a "drug addicted rock star." His 40-year track record of unforgettable music will stand.

-

I've said it before, but there is no indication that rock stars who died drug-related deaths were rejected by the public. If that were true, none of us would remember Elvis Presley, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain and many, many others.

-

Prince legacy is fine. He spent 40 years making sure of that.

brilliant point, add Bowie to the list who went through masses of drug abuse - coked to hell during the Thin White Duke phase & white soul boy eras - his legacy is also firmy in tact. Same with the Roling Stones.

and Amy Winehouse, Tom Petty...and Michael Jackson...

PennyPurple said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Prince was trying to get clean in his own private way. He didn't know how to handle, the breaking down of his little body, and the excruciating pain it was in, without the public finding out about it.

It just was too late. Plus TMZ put him in a damage control crisis!With their nosy investigation getting to the truth of what really happened in Moline. He was caught between a rock and a hard place. All while dealing with the horrible pain he was in.

Well he didn't mention the horrible pain to the Dr. He wasn't seeing a pain management Dr. either, nor was he getting legal scripts.

Prince was handling his pain issues in his own way. Which is why he agreed to have Kirk & Meron help him detox PRIVATELY . The doctor couldn't have done anything about it anyway. The scripts he prescribed didn't help him at all. So he took another road that unexpectedly lead him into his after life.

Watching him laying there he looked at peace. It was no stress on his face whatsoever. He already told us "promise me when U come to my place U will take care of it". Prince knew his time was near and that he had done what he was suppose to do here. He left here in his own way he punched to a higher floor in a elevator. Now he's free in a new world of peace and tranquility.

Prince DID NOT have an undisclosed illness!

[Edited 5/18/18 7:44am]

The thing about these drugs is anyone who has to take them for long term, will be addicted and it doesn't matter why they take them. We can blame big Pharma for lying to us, lying to the Drs, and for paying off the Drs who prescribed them. Highly addictive and then when tolerence builds up, they need higher doses. Then with all these people addicted to them, suddenly the Drs. quit prescribing them, which leads to the black market.

disch said:

I agree -- I think it's good that there's much sympathy for people who use opioids (even black market) to try to relieve physical pain. I wish that sympathy could extend to people who use opioids to try to relieve emotional pain, as well. So many people in the U.S. are struggling this way -- childhood abuse survivors, war veterans, people with undiagnosed clinic depression or anxiety, etc. -- and I think that's really connected to the opioid crisis.

-

It's been said that virtually everyone who develops an addiction has some underlying issue -- physical pain or emotional pain. Pretty much no one who develops an addiction to drugs or alchohol reaches that point simply because they're having so much fun.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

disch said:

No matter what his cause of death, his legacy isn't being overwhelmed as being a "drug addicted rock star." His 40-year track record of unforgettable music will stand.

-

I've said it before, but there is no indication that rock stars who died drug-related deaths were rejected by the public. If that were true, none of us would remember Elvis Presley, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain and many, many others.

-

Prince legacy is fine. He spent 40 years making sure of that.

brilliant point, add Bowie to the list who went through masses of drug abuse - coked to hell during the Thin White Duke phase & white soul boy eras - his legacy is also firmy in tact. Same with the Roling Stones.

There's a difference. Prince didn't take drugs. Never was there a problem with Prince and drugs.

That's what we were spoonfed. Prince hated drugs, didn't like his band members taking them, was clean living, cared about his body and his image. Never any lawsuits that involved women, never in any kind of trouble except a few speeding tickets. Never smoked, drank on occasion.

With Bowie and the Stones, Amy, Curt. It didn't come as a surprise to us because we all knew they were on drugs, they didn't hide it. We weren't surprised.

With Prince we were and still are SHOCKED. He sure had us fooled. Does it change his legacy where I'm concerned. NO. It probably doesn't change his legacy with anybody in our age group. What my young nephews tell me is the only thing they know of him, is that he died because he was on drugs. And the facts as we know them, is he died because he was on drugs. Evidently his family is fine with that. If he had anything wrong with them, they really should come out and just say it.

We want his music to live forever to be passed down, and I'm doing my part to keep that going. But the kids my nephews age whose parents or grandparents that aren't into Prince only see drugs.

When MJ died and it was all over the news for days, of course I was upset. I told my kids then, If you think it's bad now, just wait, if anything ever happens to Prince you might as well put me in a home. All 3 of my kiddos called me the day we lost Prince. Worried about their Momma. Heck for any special occasions I get gifts of all things Prince.

So with us, his legacy is in tact, but I'm worried about the younger generations.

to Penny

[Edited 5/18/18 8:05am]

PennyPurple said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

brilliant point, add Bowie to the list who went through masses of drug abuse - coked to hell during the Thin White Duke phase & white soul boy eras - his legacy is also firmy in tact. Same with the Roling Stones.

There's a difference. Prince didn't take drugs. Never was there a problem with Prince and drugs.

That's what we were spoonfed. Prince hated drugs, didn't like his band members taking them, was clean living, cared about his body and his image. Never any lawsuits that involved women, never in any kind of trouble except a few speeding tickets. Never smoked, drank on occasion.

With Bowie and the Stones, Amy, Curt. It didn't come as a surprise to us because we all knew they were on drugs, they didn't hide it. We weren't surprised.

With Prince we were and still are SHOCKED. He sure had us fooled. Does it change his legacy where I'm concerned. NO. It probably doesn't change his legacy with anybody in our age group. What my young nephews tell me is the only thing they know of him, is that he died because he was on drugs. And the facts as we know them, is he died because he was on drugs. Evidently his family is fine with that. If he had anything wrong with them, they really should come out and just say it.

We want his music to live forever to be passed down, and I'm doing my part to keep that going. But the kids my nephews age whose parents or grandparents that aren't into Prince only see drugs.

When MJ died and it was all over the news for days, of course I was upset. I told my kids then, If you think it's bad now, just wait, if anything ever happens to Prince you might as well put me in a home. All 3 of my kiddos called me the day we lost Prince. Worried about their Momma. Heck for any special occasions I get gifts of all things Prince.

So with us, his legacy is in tact, but I'm worried about the younger generations.

Thanks for this, Penny, you're the BEST. xoxo

I think if his music isn't appreciated by younger generations as much as it should be, it's not because of his cause of death.

-

I think it'll be because his estate doesn't go a good job marketing him and keeping his music in the public discourse.

-

in all honesty this was a problem when he was still alive. His refusal to participate in streaming services and youtube for example -- while not illogical -- did mean that people had more limited opportunities to discover his music. And i don't know if he ever fully recovered from the bad PR in the 90s around the name change, where he was largely portrayed as eccentric/crazy in the media.

-

But i digress I do hope that his music stays in the pantheon of other seminal rock/pop artists

PennyPurple said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

brilliant point, add Bowie to the list who went through masses of drug abuse - coked to hell during the Thin White Duke phase & white soul boy eras - his legacy is also firmy in tact. Same with the Roling Stones.

There's a difference. Prince didn't take drugs. Never was there a problem with Prince and drugs.

That's what we were spoonfed. Prince hated drugs, didn't like his band members taking them, was clean living, cared about his body and his image. Never any lawsuits that involved women, never in any kind of trouble except a few speeding tickets. Never smoked, drank on occasion.

With Bowie and the Stones, Amy, Curt. It didn't come as a surprise to us because we all knew they were on drugs, they didn't hide it. We weren't surprised.

With Prince we were and still are SHOCKED. He sure had us fooled. Does it change his legacy where I'm concerned. NO. It probably doesn't change his legacy with anybody in our age group. What my young nephews tell me is the only thing they know of him, is that he died because he was on drugs. And the facts as we know them, is he died because he was on drugs. Evidently his family is fine with that. If he had anything wrong with them, they really should come out and just say it.

We want his music to live forever to be passed down, and I'm doing my part to keep that going. But the kids my nephews age whose parents or grandparents that aren't into Prince only see drugs.

When MJ died and it was all over the news for days, of course I was upset. I told my kids then, If you think it's bad now, just wait, if anything ever happens to Prince you might as well put me in a home. All 3 of my kiddos called me the day we lost Prince. Worried about their Momma. Heck for any special occasions I get gifts of all things Prince.

So with us, his legacy is in tact, but I'm worried about the younger generations.

disch said:

I think if his music isn't appreciated by younger generations as much as it should be, it's not because of his cause of death.

-

I think it'll be because his estate doesn't go a good job marketing him and keeping his music in the public discourse.

-

in all honesty this was a problem when he was still alive. His refusal to participate in streaming services and youtube for example -- while not illogical -- did mean that people had more limited opportunities to discover his music. And i don't know if he ever fully recovered from the bad PR in the 90s around the name change, where he was largely portrayed as eccentric/crazy in the media.

-

But i digress I do hope that his music stays in the pantheon of other seminal rock/pop artists

PennyPurple said:

There's a difference. Prince didn't take drugs. Never was there a problem with Prince and drugs.

That's what we were spoonfed. Prince hated drugs, didn't like his band members taking them, was clean living, cared about his body and his image. Never any lawsuits that involved women, never in any kind of trouble except a few speeding tickets. Never smoked, drank on occasion.

With Bowie and the Stones, Amy, Curt. It didn't come as a surprise to us because we all knew they were on drugs, they didn't hide it. We weren't surprised.

With Prince we were and still are SHOCKED. He sure had us fooled. Does it change his legacy where I'm concerned. NO. It probably doesn't change his legacy with anybody in our age group. What my young nephews tell me is the only thing they know of him, is that he died because he was on drugs. And the facts as we know them, is he died because he was on drugs. Evidently his family is fine with that. If he had anything wrong with them, they really should come out and just say it.

We want his music to live forever to be passed down, and I'm doing my part to keep that going. But the kids my nephews age whose parents or grandparents that aren't into Prince only see drugs.

When MJ died and it was all over the news for days, of course I was upset. I told my kids then, If you think it's bad now, just wait, if anything ever happens to Prince you might as well put me in a home. All 3 of my kiddos called me the day we lost Prince. Worried about their Momma. Heck for any special occasions I get gifts of all things Prince.

So with us, his legacy is in tact, but I'm worried about the younger generations.

I agree. Many people lost track of Prince after that name change, basically because they did not understand it. Not from his perspective, at least.
He became obsessed with the control of his music and image and that was a souble edged sword. Now many people have no idea who he was or that he was still wrtiing great songs and playing amazing gigs.
The Estate must ensure this changes.

It is my understanding an HIV/Aids + person can have safe sex if they use a condom and are taking anti-retrovirals which render their viral load low.

I am not certain the lab results were given to us in a truthful manner. It would be interesting to acutually see the lab paperwork.

There has been a fair amount of secrecy within the family and it is possible they had a discussion with the police and the release of the "labs" may be a way to quell "the masses" and protect the legacy.

Personally, I feel he had untreated AIDS. He may have had treatment in the past though.

Any other condition/disease does not have that stigma and would have been shared long ago IMHO

If he did have AIDS, he likely experienced shame, especially within his JW belief-structure. He was not likely an IV drug user and it is much more difficult to be infected by women, so....This is where I feel the family is struggling with management of the legacy. They may feel this will "turn-off' segment of his fan base.

TC states it is not HIV/AIDS but is not coming up with an alternative that would explain so much secrecy.

IMO he deteriorated rapidly in his final six months. He lost so much weight, his color was not good, he looked skeletal. Yes, his brilliance - his talent was intact, but he seemed to be failing physically. If only Minnesota had the same laws as California we would have seen the autopsy report and been able to put this speculation to an end. Think Tom Petty: his family supported his fans knowing what happened. Prince's family apparently have their own reasons for not being open about his autopsy results.

leadline said:

peggyon said:

It is my understanding an HIV/Aids + person can have safe sex if they use a condom and are taking anti-retrovirals which render their viral load low.

I am not certain the lab results were given to us in a truthful manner. It would be interesting to acutually see the lab paperwork.

There has been a fair amount of secrecy within the family and it is possible they had a discussion with the police and the release of the "labs" may be a way to quell "the masses" and protect the legacy.

Personally, I feel he had untreated AIDS. He may have had treatment in the past though.

Any other condition/disease does not have that stigma and would have been shared long ago IMHO

If he did have AIDS, he likely experienced shame, especially within his JW belief-structure. He was not likely an IV drug user and it is much more difficult to be infected by women, so....This is where I feel the family is struggling with management of the legacy. They may feel this will "turn-off' segment of his fan base.

TC states it is not HIV/AIDS but is not coming up with an alternative that would explain so much secrecy.

In the Police records, it shows that Prince had accessed the Org and that trashy site (can't recall the name) where they published that story about him having AIDS the week prior to his death, I believe.

peggyon said:

1Sasha said:

peggyon said:

It is my understanding an HIV/Aids + person can have safe sex if they use a condom and are taking anti-retrovirals which render their viral load low.

I am not certain the lab results were given to us in a truthful manner. It would be interesting to acutually see the lab paperwork.

There has been a fair amount of secrecy within the family and it is possible they had a discussion with the police and the release of the "labs" may be a way to quell "the masses" and protect the legacy.

Personally, I feel he had untreated AIDS. He may have had treatment in the past though.

Any other condition/disease does not have that stigma and would have been shared long ago IMHO

If he did have AIDS, he likely experienced shame, especially within his JW belief-structure. He was not likely an IV drug user and it is much more difficult to be infected by women, so....This is where I feel the family is struggling with management of the legacy. They may feel this will "turn-off' segment of his fan base.

TC states it is not HIV/AIDS but is not coming up with an alternative that would explain so much secrecy.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

1Sasha said:

Do NDAs survive the death of the person requiring them? That is one of two reasons I could think of why people aren't talking: a financial penalty if they do. The other reason is culpability of some sort.

I just don't think he popped one random pill and dropped dead. I just don't.

I agree ISasha. Also look at where Phaedra is now...follow the $$. Some around P at the time of his death very well could have money attached to keeping with the plan. After all they had used an app to keep conversations private.

Perhaps those were the instructions given to them by Prince. Perhaps they were told to clean up PP of specific things, erase specific stuff from his computers, etc, and that's why they were having those private conversations amongst them.

One thing I forgot to say. I was entralled by Prince and his transcendent brilliance. I still am. It has been a rocky course at times, though, to wade through some of his behaviors/secrecy.

I do not like hypocrisy or "spinning" the truth and want to reassure the family if they are reading this thread, that the truth will eventually come out and the majority of us will still love him and his music.

Something Pete mentioned yesterday caught my eye. Pete said he heard that Prince had AIDS which then devolved into leukemia. This makes sense to me.

peggyon said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Jesus, what's happened to this thread...are we going to have one of these every few months...nudge, nudge, wink wink innuendo & hints! The conclusions are :

He died as per the offcial reports from an OD - pills for long term performance related pain, self managed & done so very badly. Also had a long history of meds abuse starting with cough meds from P. Rain onwards that escalated over the years [according to Susan Rogers]

OR the nonsense that we have heard over the last 2 years which in summary is:

1] AIDS

2] Dementia

3] A potentially fatal disease [cancer]

4] Murder [seriously?!]

5] Onset of extreme arthritis affecting his ability to perform

all underpinned with severe depression.

Beyond all of the above it cannot really be anything else. The only theory missing is that he was taken back to Jupiter!

Mods...close this nonsense up!

lock this thread up!

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Sometimes I think that people are planted here on the forum, to throw us off track. But the facts in the zip files speak volumes.

PennyPurple said: