ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

Only Prince knows what was going through PRince's mind. HE was a high profile guy and the circumstances around his death were weird. Also, the cops and DEA have an opiod crisis they are dealing with (one in which people do accidently die from intaking the wrong stuff). they might have just errored on the side of caution so they could use him to trace hte original source..It didn't work obviously. Tax dollars pay for those investigations..its no skin off their backs.

. I am just speculating that maybe Kirk knew Prince's suicidal leanings (from the emails etc) but kept it to himself..if he told the cops everyone would know and it would be released to the public. He had to protect the brand but also maybe Prince a little bit too. Prince might not have known it was fentanly or he might have. But without PRince's own words, it would be impossible to just rule it as a suicide or not... All we can do is wonder until we hear more about PRince's thoughts or conversations at the time. LIke Judith said, its 50/50. On that evidence, cops just can't confirm suicide in a high profile case.People would be pissed if they didn't look into his death.

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

Wait, what meeting was Larry at about Prince's drug problem? I thought at the get-together the week Prince died, Larry et al talked about other stuff and Prince didn't get into health issues, the plane landing, etc (per Larry's police interview)?

It's what Bondno said.

bondno9 said:

According to Kirk Prince requested help after meeting with KJ, Larry Graham, and Meron on the 19th. Also, he sent Prince an email early a.m. hours of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged. Sooo Kirky shouldn't have been nervous cause like he told Dr. S (morning of 4/21) he was waiting to give Prince something to take the edge off.

For once, we agree..LOL

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

yup, i was likewise never convinced that the elevator as a place was no accident.

Of ALL the places in the world where Prince may have been found dead...on stage, in bed, in a bathtub, at his T&C estate, in an airplane (hmmmm), in a lovers' arms, in his favorite recording studio, at a piano...fill in 100 more...IN AN ELEVATOR? REALLY?? BY ACCIDENT???

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said:

are you sure? the "shots fired at paisley" sounds as if it were debunked. we shouldn't have gotten rid of laura.

I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.

purplerabbithole said:

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said: I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.

ya, but we don't know if the vid story is true, i want proof.

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

Yes, it was there.

Why would he be afraid of her? He knew Prince since the 80's. And Prince hired and fired and rehired him all the time. He wasn't the brightest bulb, but those descriptions by his earlier staff members sound like the earlier camp throwing shade at the later camp becuase Prince died on their watch.

A lot of people not wanting to admit that they could have been more proactive or tougher where Prince's pill taking was concerned. Like someone saying, I quit because I didn't want to get him doctors willing to treat him with pills for chronic pain on perpetual basis...Well, I say, lady, it sounds like you were willing to do it for a little while...and now you feel guilty that you did at all.Guilty consciences redirected at others. BTW, I am not even judging the "enabling". It would be tough to tell someone to just deal with chronic pain (especially a boss who felt like shit..) And please people stop acting like pain wasn't a constant part of his life (he had a chiropactors table in one of his rooms, wrist braces, hip surgery, a possible second hip hurting, a change from guitar playing to piano playing, a change from dancing to sitting while performing, ice buckets near his piano while he played, and a history of painful knees, ankles etc. His feet look like shit too..when he didn't have shoes on and a costume designer once described how knobby and arthritic his hands were. How do you take away the one thing that connected him to others and gave him a reason to exist. The tragedy is that Prince didn't know how to live without being a performer but sadly performing was killing him. Talk about a conundrum.

Maybe what PRince needed first was a very persuasive person who could get it through his thick skull that musicial perfectionism was not the only thing as a human being he had to offer. He needed a non-musician, non-artist and a non-employee in his life.I think (honestly) that at times Manuela was trying to do that but her super fandom from the past made PRince not trust her, and then her being a bit greedy during the divorce didn't help. (I know that is controversial belief since she is supposed to be the Jezebel that ruined his previous marriage but I do find it interesting that she was one of teh few non-musicians he dated and in some of her pictures with him, he actually isn't wearing makeup--to me, that is significant as hell. The problem with him being surrounded by artist and aspiring artists is that many of them live for their art and performing as well. they see things through that lens.

nelcp777 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I thought Larry said the meeting was only about some shows and not Princes health. I will have to reread that. I am not giving Kirk a pass. My comment was to look at different avenues. Kirk was supposedly afraid or scared of Phaedra. He could have felt the same of Prince. I am not sure that Kirk and Meron were aware that Prince had passed already as some are saying. I guess the possibility is there.

[Edited 5/14/18 19:57pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 19:59pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 20:17pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

Yes, it was there.

The audio of Larry's interview is interesting. He said P was busy touring the past 5-6 years so their contact was limited.

Larry said P looked good on the Monday he saw him (WTF?). There were no discussions about the Moline incident. Thought he just had the flu like the news reports stated.

Then Larry excused himself at one point to get a cup of coffee. You can hear him talking to his wife in the kitchen in hushed tones.

Larry then comes back and states Kirk had mentioned coming back from Atlanta there was an emergency stop and P was taken to hospital. He was unresponsive. Kirk suspected, P had taken something. Larry said he thought Kirk didnt know what he P took and that was the problem.

Clearly, not the whole story. The detective didnt push Larry for more information.

Larry defintely knew he had a history and probably knew he was struggling again with pills by the time they had that meeting, but it doesn't mean he knew all the details before that. . LG is a bit of a dick *who ignored the problem for too long and was telling his wife to do the same, but I don't think he was quit an enabler. I think he used P for career advancement and liked his religious conversion but I imagine he stayed away from the drugs or any discussion of it with PRince.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Yes, it was there.

The audio of Larry's interview is interesting. He said P was busy touring the past 5-6 years so their contact was limited.

Larry said P looked good on the Monday he saw him (WTF?). There were no discussions about the Moline incident. Thought he just had the flu like the news reports stated.

Then Larry excused himself at one point to get a cup of coffee. You can hear him talking to his wife in the kitchen in hushed tones.

Larry then comes back and states Kirk had mentioned coming back from Atlanta there was an emergency stop and P was taken to hospital. He was unresponsive. Kirk suspected, P had taken something. Larry said he thought Kirk didnt know what he P took and that was the problem.

Clearly, not the whole story. The detective didnt push Larry for more information.

[Edited 5/14/18 20:01pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 20:03pm]

1Sasha said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

I'm not sure, 1Sasha but she hasn't been around for awhile and she was an org regular.

That bothers me if she was. She was ALWAYS in Prince's corner.

Yes, she was banned from what I understand.

My first thought was suicide but after reading a bunch of stuff related to the case I don't believe that anymore.

- Judith Hill. There's a melodramatic email she sent Prince months after he passed. While he may have been as despondent as she claimed at the Atlanta show, it's possible her recollection was colored by her own issues or that he was reflecting her mindset. She ended her email with a positive affirmation which sounds like a trait she learned from Prince.

- The first overdose. The thing that jumped out at me was how Prince thought he would wake up on his own and how he was concerned that the shot they gave him would throw his body off balance. Long term drug abuse and the nutty thoughts he had about self, he could've thought that the issue was the narcan shots...not the drugs. Even if he was coming to the conclusion that he needed outside help to break the habit and deal with his chronic pain.

- The drugs. The hospital told him that the pills he took were percocets based off the pharmacist looking at them but they didn't have the ability to test them before Prince left. If Prince thought that the pills were percocets, he could have taken them with the idea of getting some sleep before the storm, felt them come on too heavy and laid down where he was at. Which happened to be the elevator he used all the time. Apparently blacking out was a normal occurrence for him. If there was times he was walking around Paisley nude because he felt overheated, laying down in the elevator for a simple nap doesn't sound that crazy.

- New information. Stay Cool wasn't actually left in Studio A. Backwards clothes were normal for him. Green Bedroom and the stage bedroom both had a phone in them so there wasn't a chance that he was trying to find help like people speculated.

Hubris killing Prince makes more sense (at the moment) than Prince killing Prince.

Judith hill being emotional after PRince's death doesn't mean he wasn't despondent. Listen to his lyrics in AOA and listen to what his sister had to say. I know Tyka is odd, but I think Prince was the type to send cryptic shit like that and then isolate himself.

Prince might have said that stuff about the narcan, but it doesnt mean he meant it. He might have been feeding them shit so that they would leave him alone, and not take away his preferred narcotic (the one in the Bayer bottle). He must have known it was stronger...else, why did he even ask for percocet if he already had a stash. I suspect that he knew that stuff in Bayer bottles was stronger and he was trying to lighten his usage by mixing with less potent drugs.

Hubris? A drug addict in denial is not untypical. He probably didn't want to believe that Bayer stuff was killing him because he probably found it to be the most effective. He was addicted to fentanyl. Whether he knew it or not. There might have been moments in which P was willing to admit that maybe it was source of the problem (when he informed Kirk of the other bottle, when he agreed to treatment) but the counterfit pills were what he was addicted to and he knew it. He had been doing anything he could think of to avoid giving them up. on the 21th, he might have said F it, I give up. I am taking this stuff anyway, I can't deal with going off it and I can't deal with rehab. It might have been an epiphany of sorts after taking a few other pills that werent' working.. Like a realization that this stuff almost killed him and he was going to have to give it up the next day and give up presumably a lot of things that were a part of his life. and then he said, let it take me and laid down in his elevator to die. He gave into the drug. Speculation of course. But not UNREASONABLE. Another thought, maybe he had always mixed the drugs to lighten the stronger stuff. Didn't he have a bottle of just lidocaine. Maybe on the 21st, he didn't mix as much. In other words, maybe he double downed on the Bayer stuff (thus the high content in his body.) The police aren't necessarily see it as anything other than a misinformed user making a mistake, but he might not have been misinformed at all.

Strive said:

My first thought was suicide but after reading a bunch of stuff related to the case I don't believe that anymore.

- Judith Hill. There's a melodramatic email she sent Prince months after he passed. While he may have been as despondent as she claimed at the Atlanta show, it's possible her recollection was colored by her own issues or that he was reflecting her mindset. She ended her email with a positive affirmation which sounds like a trait she learned from Prince.

- The first overdose. The thing that jumped out at me was how Prince thought he would wake up on his own and how he was concerned that the shot they gave him would throw his body off balance. Long term drug abuse and the nutty thoughts he had about self, he could've thought that the issue was the narcan shots...not the drugs. Even if he was coming to the conclusion that he needed outside help to break the habit and deal with his chronic pain.

- The drugs. The hospital told him that the pills he took were percocets based off the pharmacist looking at them but they didn't have the ability to test them before Prince left. If Prince thought that the pills were percocets, he could have taken them with the idea of getting some sleep before the storm, felt them come on too heavy and laid down where he was at. Which happened to be the elevator he used all the time. Apparently blacking out was a normal occurrence for him. If there was times he was walking around Paisley nude because he felt overheated, laying down in the elevator for a simple nap doesn't sound that crazy.

- New information. Stay Cool wasn't actually left in Studio A. Backwards clothes were normal for him. Green Bedroom and the stage bedroom both had a phone in them so there wasn't a chance that he was trying to find help like people speculated.

Hubris killing Prince makes more sense (at the moment) than Prince killing Prince.

[Edited 5/14/18 21:47pm]

PeteSilas said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ I have a question for those of you who believe in suicide. We got the things he told Judith and she said there's a 50/50 chance that it was suicide, and the point that a doctor couldn't know for sure that Prince didn't or did know that the pills were toxic. How is it, that, with all these points, that the police still ruled out suicide? Think about it, Judith's comment and the fact that he died of an OD alone, could've made them say: "Okay, this was a suicide." Because, if people OD on Pills it's usually a suicide. Case closed. But they didn't, I bet that after Judiths comments, that they thought it was a suicide but something must've make them go in a different direction, and I am 100% sure that it's not only the missing suicide letter.

So what made the police make this whole case an open murder investigation? Or another question: Why wouldn't they say suicide when there's evidence pointing to it? They didn't have to make this a two years investigation if it was that simple and if it was indeed suicide I'm sure they would've said this on the press conference this year.

This is something that has baffled me from the beginning. How can they be so sure it wasn't? He was sending money to former associates. Telling people to come and collect some of their stuff at PP. Planned out the museum. Got in touch with old friends. He told JH that if he did not continue taking the pills he would not be able to perform, full stop. Imo, he had "strayed" from the JW faith (i think that was one of the reasons he and LG were no longer as close), even Elisa F says so in her recent interview, that Prince was kind of moving away from it.

How can the Police know for sure? He either took the fentanyl knowingly or unknowingly. If he knew the dosage was that high, it was suicide. If he did not know, it was an accident.

purplerabbithole said:

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

PeteSilas said: I remember that video too...and we thought Prince was alone that night. It seems She knew what was going to happen to him.

He sent emails around 10 pm. Unless he did not.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Yes, it was there.

The audio of Larry's interview is interesting. He said P was busy touring the past 5-6 years so their contact was limited.

Larry said P looked good on the Monday he saw him (WTF?). There were no discussions about the Moline incident. Thought he just had the flu like the news reports stated.

Then Larry excused himself at one point to get a cup of coffee. You can hear him talking to his wife in the kitchen in hushed tones.

Larry then comes back and states Kirk had mentioned coming back from Atlanta there was an emergency stop and P was taken to hospital. He was unresponsive. Kirk suspected, P had taken something. Larry said he thought Kirk didnt know what he P took and that was the problem.

Clearly, not the whole story. The detective didnt push Larry for more information.

The detectives didn't push anyone for more information. It seems as though they had already made up their minds about what had happened and were just going through the motions. Since they ruled out suicide, what made them so sure it was an accident?

Yep. I agree.

MMJas said:

PeteSilas said:

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

Mumio said:

1Sasha said:

That bothers me if she was. She was ALWAYS in Prince's corner.

Yes, she was banned from what I understand.

Thanks, Mumio.

MMJas said:

purplerabbithole said:

Find out what the lyrics of her song were. Maybe he fired her that night and she knew that she was out of a job and helpless in terms of helping him. It is not confirmation that she knew he was dead. The coroner said he had probably been dead for 6 hours when they found him, setting his time of death to around 3 am. He wasn't dead by 11.

He sent emails around 10 pm. Unless he did not.

I have not read all of the investigative report. Did it ever say what time Will Smith spoke with him? Also, I agree that finding him in the elevator was significant. I think he planned to be found there, as in "Let's Go Crazy." His mind worked that way. Plus for the last year of his life it seems he was planning the end of his days. JMO

purplerabbithole said:

Why would he be afraid of her? He knew Prince since the 80's. And Prince hired and fired and rehired him all the time. He wasn't the brightest bulb, but those descriptions by his earlier staff members sound like the earlier camp throwing shade at the later camp becuase Prince died on their watch.

A lot of people not wanting to admit that they could have been more proactive or tougher where Prince's pill taking was concerned. Like someone saying, I quit because I didn't want to get him doctors willing to treat him with pills for chronic pain on perpetual basis...Well, I say, lady, it sounds like you were willing to do it for a little while...and now you feel guilty that you did at all.Guilty consciences redirected at others. BTW, I am not even judging the "enabling". It would be tough to tell someone to just deal with chronic pain (especially a boss who felt like shit..) And please people stop acting like pain wasn't a constant part of his life (he had a chiropactors table in one of his rooms, wrist braces, hip surgery, a possible second hip hurting, a change from guitar playing to piano playing, a change from dancing to sitting while performing, ice buckets near his piano while he played, and a history of painful knees, ankles etc. His feet look like shit too..when he didn't have shoes on and a costume designer once described how knobby and arthritic his hands were. How do you take away the one thing that connected him to others and gave him a reason to exist. The tragedy is that Prince didn't know how to live without being a performer but sadly performing was killing him. Talk about a conundrum.

Maybe what PRince needed first was a very persuasive person who could get it through his thick skull that musicial perfectionism was not the only thing as a human being he had to offer. He needed a non-musician, non-artist and a non-employee in his life.I think (honestly) that at times Manuela was trying to do that but her super fandom from the past made PRince not trust her, and then her being a bit greedy during the divorce didn't help. (I know that is controversial belief since she is supposed to be the Jezebel that ruined his previous marriage but I do find it interesting that she was one of teh few non-musicians he dated and in some of her pictures with him, he actually isn't wearing makeup--to me, that is significant as hell. The problem with him being surrounded by artist and aspiring artists is that many of them live for their art and performing as well. they see things through that lens.

nelcp777 said:

cloveringold85 said: I thought Larry said the meeting was only about some shows and not Princes health. I will have to reread that. I am not giving Kirk a pass. My comment was to look at different avenues. Kirk was supposedly afraid or scared of Phaedra. He could have felt the same of Prince. I am not sure that Kirk and Meron were aware that Prince had passed already as some are saying. I guess the possibility is there.

[Edited 5/14/18 19:57pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 19:59pm]

[Edited 5/14/18 20:17pm]

Purplerabbithole:

purplerabbithole said:

It sounds like his thoughts were eratic. Judith said he was 50/50 where suicide was concerned. Another theory --he wanted them to give him some privacy so he convinced them that the rehab was something he was interested in and then he did the deed when everyone was gone. Or maybe he wanted the anti-anxiety stuff because he was trying to be calm when he made the next decisions that either prolonged or ended his life and then when the stuff kirk gave him didn't work, he didn't want the bottles. Or maybe, he was just playing Russian Roulette (not planning on dying but not worrying about it if it happened.)

The thing to remember is that the doctors didn't know jack about Prince. If they were led to believe that he didn't know what was in those bottles and that he thought the earlier mixing of pills is what caused Molene, then it would be standard to think it wasn't suicide. Those who know him might feel differently because they know that his mind operated a bit differently than others and that he was cryptic and pretty damn secretive. Also, the elevator thing, I actually think, sounds a lot like a symbolic gesture of Prince's. I guess if he entered it from the lower floor, then he was punching the floor up. If he entered it from the upper floor, he was letting the elevator bring him down. I hope it was first case scenario if that is the case.

Yes true. I believe the former to be better. That way he could have smashed through the glass ceiling Hillary Clinton style and kept on going a la Willy Wonka from the chocolate factory

(Sorry I've just dropped by nursev's posts on lipstickalley and i'm all weirded out)

disch said:

kmama07 said:

disch said:

I don't think dusting the elevator (or anywhere in PP, really) for fingerprints was the issue. Tons of people were in and out of that elevator and other parts of PP regularly so finding their fingerprints wouldnt have told the investigators much I don't think.

-

I think the crime that the investigators would be interested in solving would be from whom/how did prince acquire his illegal pills and since it's likely that supplier didn't even interact with Prince on PP property, I think the supply chain would potentially be uncovered through interviews and searching records (computer, mail, phone etc). Those are the investigative tactics that I could see could maybe be done differently or more of to get at answers, rather than the "CSI"-style stuff.

-

One thing I wish we knew was who deleted his email history, and why. That would be indicative to me of someone specifically trying to conceal something.

[Edited 5/11/18 13:09pm]

Agreed on the email pulling...why didn't the investigators find this questionable and follow up?

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

1Sasha said:

MMJas said:

He sent emails around 10 pm. Unless he did not.

I have not read all of the investigative report. Did it ever say what time Will Smith spoke with him? Also, I agree that finding him in the elevator was significant. I think he planned to be found there, as in "Let's Go Crazy." His mind worked that way. Plus for the last year of his life it seems he was planning the end of his days. JMO

The phone records show Will called on the 19th and not the 20th.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

1Sasha said:

I have not read all of the investigative report. Did it ever say what time Will Smith spoke with him? Also, I agree that finding him in the elevator was significant. I think he planned to be found there, as in "Let's Go Crazy." His mind worked that way. Plus for the last year of his life it seems he was planning the end of his days. JMO

The phone records show Will called on the 19th and not the 20th.

Thank you.

My sister lived for eight years in Eden Prairie, which is basically next door to Chanhassen. At first, the local talk was that his death was accidental. Within weeks, that had changed to suicide. So if the locals were at that point, why would the authorities actually not consider it?

[Edited 5/15/18 8:38am]

Re: the fentanyl: One reason perhaps for the "accident" determination is because the ME also knew, based on the pill analysis, that each laced pill contained a massive amount of fentanyl. So it's not like he swallowed a dozen pills or whatever like an average suicide-by-pill might entail. He probably took a relatively small number of pills, what for another person (or an opioid addict with high tolerance) would be a typical dose -- if they actually were the pills they appeared to be and not laced counterfeits.

-

I still don't see any evidence that Prince knew the composition of these counterfeit pills or their potential toxicity. I still think our previous discussions that he didn't actually understand why he had the plane crisis (due to lack of testing or either him or the pills) is most in line with the facts that have come out in the investigation. (No one actually knows with certainty precisely what opioid caused the plane OD but i feel it was most likely a fentanyl-laced pill.)

Bodhitheblackdog said:

kmama07 said:

disch said: Agreed on the email pulling...why didn't the investigators find this questionable and follow up?

I still think there was a vibe of 'let's protect the hometown hero' about this whole"investigation" in that 'accident' sounds so much more innocent and less violent that 'suicide.' It's also puzzling to me that given the expertise of the ME re Fent she still saw the MASSIVE, almost without precendant levels of Fent in his system as accidental rather than the result of a purposeful act.

I think in a misguided spasm of caring they were trying to protect his reputation.

disch said:

Ah Ok. Where did that info about Kirk come from? I don't remember that from the police transcript but I might have missed it. Was it in there?

PennyPurple said:

In a follow-up report submitted by Detective Chris Wagner (ICR: 1600012559). He stated: "Kirk told me he did not see Prince again until Tuesday evening, April 19th, 2016, around 2000-2030 hours when they had a meeting with Prince, Larry Graham, Meron Bekure and Kirk. Kirk said Prince had canceled shows on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday of that week (April 18-22nd, 2016) because of what happened in Atlanta and they were trying to urge Prince to take a break. Kirk said Prince was the one who wanted the help and they urged Prince to get physical exam by a doctor. That was why Kirk made the appointment with Dr. Schulenberg."

---

Now, in the transcipt of the taped statement ... Kirk stated Prince wanted to talk to somebody and tha'ts why they reached out to Recovery Without Walls ...

---

CW: Okay who is Andrew and how does Andrew come into this.

KJ:Andrew was from the company that we had called to um come out here and try to help him get you know, possibly you know, talk to him to see if he can get off any of these pain pills.

CW:Okay so you guys, was this during the meeting with Larry..

KJ:No this was just like just yesterday we were just trying to reach out because Prince said he wanted to talk to somebody, so just yesterday we just reached out to..I think the name is, this guy in San Francisco, How..Howard, I'm just trying to find out..

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now why would KJ act like he didn't know Howard Kornfeld's last name when he sent a text to Dr. S around 11:30 pm on 4/20 stating to fax test restults to him??? and also sent an email to P early am of 4/21 stating all care for house had been arranged and to call him when he got the email???

[Edited 5/15/18 9:11am]

MMJas said:

PeteSilas said:

i've said from the beginning that Prince's star power (any star really) will distort everything, everything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over, my mind is still open to other things too, including illness as a motive for suicide. With a star there is such a thing as managing the post-death image and the coroners/detectives etc.., are all very conscious of it all. And as far as a suicide letter, i think it's a myth that suicidal people leave notes all the time.

He had excrutiating pain in his ankles, knees, hips, hands and wrists. Could not keep food down. Was doing enemas by the dozen. His body was failing him. Was addicted to painkillers. That seems debilitationg enough to me...

i figured someone would say that but i meant a real disease, cancer/aids i still think it's possible although in light of some of this stuff, seems to be a diminishing possibility. Thing with pain is, prince had been overcoming so many things for so long that a little pain wouldn't seem to be such a big deal, this is Prince not some regular joe. If football players have kicked the pills, i'm sure prince was just as mentally tough as them if not more, maybe I had too much faith in the man.