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Thread started 11/10/17 5:37pm

Militant

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Prince estate alleges Roc Nation/TIDAL used a fraudulent contract to stream the artist's songs

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.



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Reply #1 posted 11/10/17 5:41pm

TrivialPursuit

I've come to trust your words long ago, Militant. You've always been intelligent about the things you put out without being a blowhard. We got your back.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #2 posted 11/10/17 5:44pm

Militant

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TrivialPursuit said:

I've come to trust your words long ago, Militant. You've always been intelligent about the things you put out without being a blowhard. We got your back.

hug hug hug hug

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Reply #3 posted 11/10/17 5:57pm

OperatingTheta
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I'm reading here that Prince's estate is alleging fraud against Tidal, but not that this has been substantiated or upheld in court.

Tidal possibly may be guilty of misconduct regarding streaming after Prince's death, but this has to be proven in a court of law and a verdict rendered before any conclusion can be reached.
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Reply #4 posted 11/10/17 6:07pm

muleFunk

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Hold up Mil.

You are one of the sane folks around here!!! lol lol lol lol

I pay close attention to you.

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Reply #5 posted 11/10/17 6:13pm

Militant

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OperatingThetan said:

I'm reading here that Prince's estate is alleging fraud against Tidal, but not that this has been substantiated or upheld in court. Tidal possibly may be guilty of misconduct regarding streaming after Prince's death, but this has to be proven in a court of law and a verdict rendered before any conclusion can be reached.




For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so.

I think it's pretty clear why.




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Reply #6 posted 11/10/17 6:13pm

Militant

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muleFunk said:

Hold up Mil.

You are one of the sane folks around here!!! lol lol lol lol

I pay close attention to you.

Thank you mule hug


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Reply #7 posted 11/10/17 7:00pm

PennyPurple

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Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.



Has it been proven or just alleged?


I don't like Tidal and I don't like JayZ. sad

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Reply #8 posted 11/10/17 7:07pm

FlyOnTheWall

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]

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Reply #9 posted 11/10/17 7:13pm

PennyPurple

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If Tidal can't produce a contract, why doesn't the judge order them to stop streaming immediately?

[Edited 11/10/17 19:14pm]

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Reply #10 posted 11/10/17 7:30pm

Militant

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FlyOnTheWall said:

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]




No, of course not.

Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.

Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!

Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.

The only way they could have gotten away with this is

A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.

or

B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?






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Reply #11 posted 11/10/17 7:39pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

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This doesnt mean Comerica wins the case.
This article is so cryptic I think a Nelson wrote it.

biggrin

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Reply #12 posted 11/10/17 7:40pm

FlyOnTheWall

Militant said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]




No, of course not.

Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.

Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!

Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.

The only way they could have gotten away with this is

A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.

or

B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?






Wow. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Reply #13 posted 11/10/17 7:51pm

TrevorAyer

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?
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Reply #14 posted 11/11/17 2:19am

IstenSzek

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TrevorAyer said:

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?


they do sound amazing. the copies of 'chocolate invasion' and 'slaughterhouse' as well
as 'xpectation' that i bought the flac files for from tidal sound super good compared to
the official npgmusicclub downloads i had before.

but i think those were perhaps uploaded before april 21st 2016? i can't remember.


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #15 posted 11/11/17 2:58am

trickster

IstenSzek said:



TrevorAyer said:


How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?


they do sound amazing. the copies of 'chocolate invasion' and 'slaughterhouse' as well
as 'xpectation' that i bought the flac files for from tidal sound super good compared to
the official npgmusicclub downloads i had before.

but i think those were perhaps uploaded before april 21st 2016? i can't remember.




Yes, they were uploaded before. Prince didnt made contracts and This is the Result..
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Reply #16 posted 11/11/17 6:44am

Romeoblu

Everything such as Choc invasion was on before Prince's death. They obviously had some sought of agreement.
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Reply #17 posted 11/11/17 8:14am

OperatingTheta
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Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse and a number of other NPGMC and rare releases were available on Tidal long before Prince died and obviously with Prince's awareness. A simple view of his twitter account and statements in interviews proves this.

There is no way Tidal could have uploaded their own copies of live songs from Prince's Piano and Microphone tour because nobody else would have access to these other than Prince. And Prince tweeted about these Tidal exclusive releases himself.

As Prince continued to provide new, exclusive music to Tidal up until the week of his death, any genuine possible wrongdoing has to have occured after his passing.
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Reply #18 posted 11/11/17 8:29am

TKO

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TIDAL is trash.

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Reply #19 posted 11/11/17 8:31am

laurarichardso
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Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.




—Sorry this article is saying alleged because Comerica has not actually seen any documents and are saying what docs exsist are back dated. Going to be hard to prove docs are back dated and one wonders were Prince’s copies are located.
This allegation also has nothing to do with first set of files that Tidal were streaming including the NPG material. Prince wanted to work with this company and that cannot be disputed. I wonder what WB thinks about all of the WB music and videos and WB material because they have said and done nothing.
Also this article does not address who sent the additional files. Do you think Someone broke into Paisley Park and stole the files?
Or why after a year Comerica has not been able to get the illegal marterial off of Tidal’s site. Seems like they could go to court and get an injunction just like they did with Ian Boxhill but all of the files are still up on Tidal.
Many of us have read the court’s docs and we know what LM has been accused of and we know this nonsense was started by him. We know he is being investigated right now and we know just a week or so ago Comerica was in talks to settle. So some of us know what we are talking about.
[Edited 11/11/17 8:35am]
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Reply #20 posted 11/11/17 8:37am

laurarichardso
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ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This doesnt mean Comerica wins the case.
This article is so cryptic I think a Nelson wrote it.


biggrin


Exactly, article tells us nothing.
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Reply #21 posted 11/11/17 8:44am

laurarichardso
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Militant said:



OperatingThetan said:


I'm reading here that Prince's estate is alleging fraud against Tidal, but not that this has been substantiated or upheld in court. Tidal possibly may be guilty of misconduct regarding streaming after Prince's death, but this has to be proven in a court of law and a verdict rendered before any conclusion can be reached.




For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so.

I think it's pretty clear why.





—Do you honestly think Prince sent files to Tidal when he was alive and well and spoke of the company in the media for free. Tidal claims they paid Prince 3 million dollars all they have to do is show an exchange and they can say a contract was implied do the exchange of money and deliverables however I do believe they do have some contractual document. I simply cannot see a company risking the accusation of copyright infringement without having some contract. Also all of this venom is directed at Jay-z when Tidal is a subsidiary of Aspiro. I doubt the parent company would allow this partnership to happen without some contract. The dispute is really over what the contract states and if someone had POA to sign for Prince.
[Edited 11/11/17 8:45am]
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Reply #22 posted 11/11/17 8:48am

PennyPurple

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laurarichardson said:

Militant said:




For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so.

I think it's pretty clear why.




—Do you honestly think Prince sent files to Tidal when he was alive and well and spoke of the company in the media for free. Tidal claims they paid Prince 3 million dollars all they have to do is show an exchange and they can say a contract was implied do the exchange of money and deliverables however I do believe they do have some contractual document. I simply cannot see a company risking the accusation of copyright infringement without having some contract. Also all of this venom is directed at Jay-z when Tidal is a subsidiary of Aspiro. I doubt the parent company would allow this partnership to happen without some contract. The dispute is really over what the contract states and if someone had POA to sign for Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 8:45am]

Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?

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Reply #23 posted 11/11/17 9:06am

laurarichardso
n

Militant said:



FlyOnTheWall said:


Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.


[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]







No, of course not.



Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.



Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!



Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.



The only way they could have gotten away with this is



A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.



or



B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?











It is probably B.and it is possible that it was scheduled that music went up on Prince’s Birthday. If Tidal uploaded the music on their own when Prince had a license deal with WB don’t you think WB might have something to say about it? Do you think a Federal court might be issuing a injunction agaisnt Tidal and Aspiro? Do you think these two entities have some albilty to bypass U.S. copyright laws? More to this case then we know
I also contacted Comerica about Madhouse and Vanity Sixx and they said they were going to look into it. When I last looked both titles were still on Tidal.
[Edited 11/11/17 9:09am]
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Reply #24 posted 11/11/17 9:12am

laurarichardso
n

PennyPurple said:



laurarichardson said:


Militant said:





For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so.

I think it's pretty clear why.






—Do you honestly think Prince sent files to Tidal when he was alive and well and spoke of the company in the media for free. Tidal claims they paid Prince 3 million dollars all they have to do is show an exchange and they can say a contract was implied do the exchange of money and deliverables however I do believe they do have some contractual document. I simply cannot see a company risking the accusation of copyright infringement without having some contract. Also all of this venom is directed at Jay-z when Tidal is a subsidiary of Aspiro. I doubt the parent company would allow this partnership to happen without some contract. The dispute is really over what the contract states and if someone had POA to sign for Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 8:45am]

Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?


To drag things out and they did say in the court docs that Comerica should speak with Prince employees they worked with and they named named as well as telling Comerica to do their own due dilegence. If this goes to trial Tidal will have to cough up something or show they paid Prince something.One thing we know for certain is that Prince wanted to do business with company he sent them the music from the last show. They are not some rogue company attaching themselves to Prince.
[Edited 11/11/17 9:14am]
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Reply #25 posted 11/11/17 9:15am

alandail

trickster said:

IstenSzek said:


they do sound amazing. the copies of 'chocolate invasion' and 'slaughterhouse' as well
as 'xpectation' that i bought the flac files for from tidal sound super good compared to
the official npgmusicclub downloads i had before.

but i think those were perhaps uploaded before april 21st 2016? i can't remember.


Yes, they were uploaded before. Prince didnt made contracts and This is the Result..

Yet WB had a contract to release the Purple Rain remaster. If Tidal can't provide a contract, they can claim rights to his music.

Customized apparel and gifts - http://www.inktastic.com/
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Reply #26 posted 11/11/17 9:16am

PennyPurple

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laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?

To drag things out and they did say in the court docs that Comerica should speak with Prince employees they worked with and they named named as well as telling Comerica to do their own due dilegence. If this goes to trial Tidal will have to cough up something or show they paid Prince something.One thing we know for certain is that Prince wanted to do business with company he sent them the music from the last show. They are not some rogue company attaching themselves to Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 9:14am]

Why would they want to drag things out?

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Reply #27 posted 11/11/17 9:25am

laurarichardso
n

PennyPurple said:



laurarichardson said:


PennyPurple said:


Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?



To drag things out and they did say in the court docs that Comerica should speak with Prince employees they worked with and they named named as well as telling Comerica to do their own due dilegence. If this goes to trial Tidal will have to cough up something or show they paid Prince something.One thing we know for certain is that Prince wanted to do business with company he sent them the music from the last show. They are not some rogue company attaching themselves to Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 9:14am]

Why would they want to drag things out?


Well Comerica has not moved to have the music removed from the Tidal platform and they are still making money. The longer this drags out the more money for Tidal. I wonder what reason Comerica believes contracts were back dated or altered. I wonder if they have eyewitness or input from Pheadra or NPG copies of the contractif so why cannot they not use that to get the music off of Tidal.
[Edited 11/11/17 9:26am]
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Reply #28 posted 11/11/17 9:27am

Militant

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If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple.


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months.

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about.





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Reply #29 posted 11/11/17 9:58am

muleFunk

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This also gets into the digital releases of The Family and Madhouse 8 and 16 on these sites .

I am wondering now if they released these albums then why hasn't Jill Jones and Shelia E's albums haven't been uploaded? Or have they??????

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