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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince estate alleges Roc Nation/TIDAL used a fraudulent contract to stream the artist's songs
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Thread started 11/10/17 5:37pm

Militant

moderator

Prince estate alleges Roc Nation/TIDAL used a fraudulent contract to stream the artist's songs

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.



Reply #1 posted 11/10/17 5:41pm

TrivialPursuit

I've come to trust your words long ago, Militant. You've always been intelligent about the things you put out without being a blowhard. We got your back.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
Reply #2 posted 11/10/17 5:44pm

Militant

moderator

TrivialPursuit said:

I've come to trust your words long ago, Militant. You've always been intelligent about the things you put out without being a blowhard. We got your back.

hug hug hug hug

Reply #3 posted 11/10/17 5:57pm

OperatingThetan

I'm reading here that Prince's estate is alleging fraud against Tidal, but not that this has been substantiated or upheld in court.

Tidal possibly may be guilty of misconduct regarding streaming after Prince's death, but this has to be proven in a court of law and a verdict rendered before any conclusion can be reached.
Reply #4 posted 11/10/17 6:07pm

muleFunk

Hold up Mil.

You are one of the sane folks around here!!! lol lol lol lol

I pay close attention to you.

Reply #5 posted 11/10/17 6:13pm

Militant

moderator

OperatingThetan said:

I'm reading here that Prince's estate is alleging fraud against Tidal, but not that this has been substantiated or upheld in court. Tidal possibly may be guilty of misconduct regarding streaming after Prince's death, but this has to be proven in a court of law and a verdict rendered before any conclusion can be reached.




For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so.

I think it's pretty clear why.




Reply #6 posted 11/10/17 6:13pm

Militant

moderator

muleFunk said:

Hold up Mil.

You are one of the sane folks around here!!! lol lol lol lol

I pay close attention to you.

Thank you mule hug


Reply #7 posted 11/10/17 7:00pm

PennyPurple

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.



Has it been proven or just alleged?


I don't like Tidal and I don't like JayZ. sad

Reply #8 posted 11/10/17 7:07pm

FlyOnTheWall

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]

Reply #9 posted 11/10/17 7:13pm

PennyPurple

If Tidal can't produce a contract, why doesn't the judge order them to stop streaming immediately?

[Edited 11/10/17 19:14pm]

Reply #10 posted 11/10/17 7:30pm

Militant

moderator

FlyOnTheWall said:

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]




No, of course not.

Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.

Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!

Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.

The only way they could have gotten away with this is

A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.

or

B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?






Reply #11 posted 11/10/17 7:39pm

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

This doesnt mean Comerica wins the case.
This article is so cryptic I think a Nelson wrote it.

biggrin

Reply #12 posted 11/10/17 7:40pm

FlyOnTheWall

Militant said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]




No, of course not.

Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.

Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!

Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.

The only way they could have gotten away with this is

A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.

or

B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?






Wow. Thanks for clearing that up.

Reply #13 posted 11/10/17 7:51pm

TrevorAyer

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?
Reply #14 posted 11/11/17 2:19am

IstenSzek

TrevorAyer said:

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?


they do sound amazing. the copies of 'chocolate invasion' and 'slaughterhouse' as well
as 'xpectation' that i bought the flac files for from tidal sound super good compared to
the official npgmusicclub downloads i had before.

but i think those were perhaps uploaded before april 21st 2016? i can't remember.


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #15 posted 11/11/17 2:58am

trickster

IstenSzek said:

 



TrevorAyer said:


How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?


they do sound amazing. the copies of 'chocolate invasion' and 'slaughterhouse' as well
as 'xpectation' that i bought the flac files for from tidal sound super good compared to
the official npgmusicclub downloads i had before. 

but i think those were perhaps uploaded before april 21st 2016? i can't remember. 




Yes, they were uploaded before. Prince didnt made contracts and This is the Result..
Reply #16 posted 11/11/17 6:44am

Romeoblu

Everything such as Choc invasion was on before Prince's death. They obviously had some sought of agreement.
Reply #17 posted 11/11/17 8:14am

OperatingThetan

Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse and a number of other NPGMC and rare releases were available on Tidal long before Prince died and obviously with Prince's awareness. A simple view of his twitter account and statements in interviews proves this.

There is no way Tidal could have uploaded their own copies of live songs from Prince's Piano and Microphone tour because nobody else would have access to these other than Prince. And Prince tweeted about these Tidal exclusive releases himself.

As Prince continued to provide new, exclusive music to Tidal up until the week of his death, any genuine possible wrongdoing has to have occured after his passing.
Reply #18 posted 11/11/17 8:29am

TKO

TIDAL is trash.

Reply #19 posted 11/11/17 8:31am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.com/prince-estate-alleges-roc-nation-used-a-fraudulent-contract-to-stream-the-artist-s-songs/456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about. 

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected. 




—Sorry this article is saying alleged because Comerica has not actually seen any documents and are saying what docs exsist are back dated. Going to be hard to prove docs are back dated and one wonders were Prince’s copies are located.
This allegation also has nothing to do with first set of files that Tidal were streaming including the NPG material. Prince wanted to work with this company and that cannot be disputed. I wonder what WB thinks about all of the WB music and videos and WB material because they have said and done nothing.
Also this article does not address who sent the additional files. Do you think Someone broke into Paisley Park and stole the files?
Or why after a year Comerica has not been able to get the illegal marterial off of Tidal’s site. Seems like they could go to court and get an injunction just like they did with Ian Boxhill but all of the files are still up on Tidal.
Many of us have read the court’s docs and we know what LM has been accused of and we know this nonsense was started by him. We know he is being investigated right now and we know just a week or so ago Comerica was in talks to settle. So some of us know what we are talking about.
[Edited 11/11/17 8:35am]
Reply #20 posted 11/11/17 8:37am

laurarichardson

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This doesnt mean Comerica wins the case.
This article is so cryptic I think a Nelson wrote it.


biggrin


Exactly, article tells us nothing.
Reply #21 posted 11/11/17 8:44am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

 



OperatingThetan said:


I'm reading here that Prince's estate is alleging fraud against Tidal, but not that this has been substantiated or upheld in court. Tidal possibly may be guilty of misconduct regarding streaming after Prince's death, but this has to be proven in a court of law and a verdict rendered before any conclusion can be reached.




For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so. 

I think it's pretty clear why. 





—Do you honestly think Prince sent files to Tidal when he was alive and well and spoke of the company in the media for free. Tidal claims they paid Prince 3 million dollars all they have to do is show an exchange and they can say a contract was implied do the exchange of money and deliverables however I do believe they do have some contractual document. I simply cannot see a company risking the accusation of copyright infringement without having some contract. Also all of this venom is directed at Jay-z when Tidal is a subsidiary of Aspiro. I doubt the parent company would allow this partnership to happen without some contract. The dispute is really over what the contract states and if someone had POA to sign for Prince.
[Edited 11/11/17 8:45am]
Reply #22 posted 11/11/17 8:48am

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

Militant said:




For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so.

I think it's pretty clear why.




—Do you honestly think Prince sent files to Tidal when he was alive and well and spoke of the company in the media for free. Tidal claims they paid Prince 3 million dollars all they have to do is show an exchange and they can say a contract was implied do the exchange of money and deliverables however I do believe they do have some contractual document. I simply cannot see a company risking the accusation of copyright infringement without having some contract. Also all of this venom is directed at Jay-z when Tidal is a subsidiary of Aspiro. I doubt the parent company would allow this partnership to happen without some contract. The dispute is really over what the contract states and if someone had POA to sign for Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 8:45am]

Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?

Reply #23 posted 11/11/17 9:06am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

 



FlyOnTheWall said:


Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.


[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]



 





No, of course not. 


 


Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there. 


 


Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!


 


Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there. 


 


The only way they could have gotten away with this is 


 


A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it. 


 


or


 


B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?








 


 


 


It is probably B.and it is possible that it was scheduled that music went up on Prince’s Birthday. If Tidal uploaded the music on their own when Prince had a license deal with WB don’t you think WB might have something to say about it? Do you think a Federal court might be issuing a injunction agaisnt Tidal and Aspiro? Do you think these two entities have some albilty to bypass U.S. copyright laws? More to this case then we know
I also contacted Comerica about Madhouse and Vanity Sixx and they said they were going to look into it. When I last looked both titles were still on Tidal.
[Edited 11/11/17 9:09am]
Reply #24 posted 11/11/17 9:12am

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

 



laurarichardson said:


Militant said:

 





For the Estate to allege fraud in a court of law is incredibly serious. And yes, whilst the judge still must deliver a verdict, the article makes it clear that the Estate have continually asked TIDAL to provide some evidence of the arrangement or contract they had with Prince, and they have been completely unable to do so. 

I think it's pretty clear why. 






—Do you honestly think Prince sent files to Tidal when he was alive and well and spoke of the company in the media for free. Tidal claims they paid Prince 3 million dollars all they have to do is show an exchange and they can say a contract was implied do the exchange of money and deliverables however I do believe they do have some contractual document. I simply cannot see a company risking the accusation of copyright infringement without having some contract. Also all of this venom is directed at Jay-z when Tidal is a subsidiary of Aspiro. I doubt the parent company would allow this partnership to happen without some contract. The dispute is really over what the contract states and if someone had POA to sign for Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 8:45am]

Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?


To drag things out and they did say in the court docs that Comerica should speak with Prince employees they worked with and they named named as well as telling Comerica to do their own due dilegence. If this goes to trial Tidal will have to cough up something or show they paid Prince something.One thing we know for certain is that Prince wanted to do business with company he sent them the music from the last show. They are not some rogue company attaching themselves to Prince.
[Edited 11/11/17 9:14am]
Reply #25 posted 11/11/17 9:15am

alandail

trickster said:

IstenSzek said:


they do sound amazing. the copies of 'chocolate invasion' and 'slaughterhouse' as well
as 'xpectation' that i bought the flac files for from tidal sound super good compared to
the official npgmusicclub downloads i had before.

but i think those were perhaps uploaded before april 21st 2016? i can't remember.


Yes, they were uploaded before. Prince didnt made contracts and This is the Result..

Yet WB had a contract to release the Purple Rain remaster. If Tidal can't provide a contract, they can claim rights to his music.

Customized apparel and gifts - http://www.inktastic.com/
Reply #26 posted 11/11/17 9:16am

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?

To drag things out and they did say in the court docs that Comerica should speak with Prince employees they worked with and they named named as well as telling Comerica to do their own due dilegence. If this goes to trial Tidal will have to cough up something or show they paid Prince something.One thing we know for certain is that Prince wanted to do business with company he sent them the music from the last show. They are not some rogue company attaching themselves to Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 9:14am]

Why would they want to drag things out?

Reply #27 posted 11/11/17 9:25am

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

 



laurarichardson said:


PennyPurple said:

 


Then why haven't they provided anything to the Estate, after all these months?



To drag things out and they did say in the court docs that Comerica should speak with Prince employees they worked with and they named named as well as telling Comerica to do their own due dilegence. If this goes to trial Tidal will have to cough up something or show they paid Prince something.One thing we know for certain is that Prince wanted to do business with company he sent them the music from the last show. They are not some rogue company attaching themselves to Prince. [Edited 11/11/17 9:14am]

Why would they want to drag things out? 


Well Comerica has not moved to have the music removed from the Tidal platform and they are still making money. The longer this drags out the more money for Tidal. I wonder what reason Comerica believes contracts were back dated or altered. I wonder if they have eyewitness or input from Pheadra or NPG copies of the contractif so why cannot they not use that to get the music off of Tidal.
[Edited 11/11/17 9:26am]
Reply #28 posted 11/11/17 9:27am

Militant

moderator

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple.


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months.

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about.





Reply #29 posted 11/11/17 9:58am

muleFunk

This also gets into the digital releases of The Family and Madhouse 8 and 16 on these sites .

I am wondering now if they released these albums then why hasn't Jill Jones and Shelia E's albums haven't been uploaded? Or have they??????

Reply #30 posted 11/11/17 10:03am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple. 


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months. 

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about. 






—If Comerica has concrete proof why do not they not go to Federal court and get an order to remove the WB catalogue from Tidal’s platform or all of the music if they can? Comerica has no trouble getting one for Ian Boxhill? Can you answer that question?
Reply #31 posted 11/11/17 10:05am

laurarichardson

muleFunk said:

This also gets into the digital releases of The Family and Madhouse 8 and 16 on these sites .


 


I am wondering now if they released these albums then why hasn't Jill Jones and Shelia E's albums haven't been uploaded? Or have they?????


—I contacted Comerica about it and they said they would look into it.
Reply #32 posted 11/11/17 10:09am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple. 


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months. 

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about. 






-Londell is a business advisor to Sharon, Norriane and John. In the most recent docs Comerica is asking for a mediator to deal with the NDA they want Londell to sign and they want the mediators to deal with older sibs. LM is still on the scence stirring up trouble. Go to the estate topic and read away.
Reply #33 posted 11/11/17 10:32am

Militant

moderator

laurarichardson said:

Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple.


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months.

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about.





-Londell is a business advisor to Sharon, Norriane and John. In the most recent docs Comerica is asking for a mediator to deal with the NDA they want Londell to sign and they want the mediators to deal with older sibs. LM is still on the scence stirring up trouble. Go to the estate topic and read away.



Sharon, Norrine and John are heirs.

Heirs are not the Estate.

Some of the heirs are happy with the Estate. Some of them are not. But none of them, right now, have any say in what the Estate decides to do or not do.


Therefore Londell advising some of the heirs remains irrelevant to the TIDAL issue which is being pursued by the Estate and NOT the heirs.


laurarichardson said:

Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple.


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months.

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about.





—If Comerica has concrete proof why do not they not go to Federal court and get an order to remove the WB catalogue from Tidal’s platform or all of the music if they can? Comerica has no trouble getting one for Ian Boxhill? Can you answer that question?




The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica.

Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have.
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place.



Reply #34 posted 11/11/17 10:51am

muleFunk

The question that I have is why did Sharon say tell us what you think the next release should be when they have no say in that release?

Reply #35 posted 11/11/17 12:20pm

OperatingThetan

Militant said:

 



laurarichardson said:


Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple. 


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months. 

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about. 







-Londell is a business advisor to Sharon, Norriane and John. In the most recent docs Comerica is asking for a mediator to deal with the NDA they want Londell to sign and they want the mediators to deal with older sibs. LM is still on the scence stirring up trouble. Go to the estate topic and read away.

 




Sharon, Norrine and John are heirs. 


 


Heirs are not the Estate. 


 


Some of the heirs are happy with the Estate. Some of them are not. But none of them, right now, have any say in what the Estate decides to do or not do. 



Therefore Londell advising some of the heirs remains irrelevant to the TIDAL issue which is being pursued by the Estate and NOT the heirs. 



 



laurarichardson said:


Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple. 


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months. 

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about. 







—If Comerica has concrete proof why do not they not go to Federal court and get an order to remove the WB catalogue from Tidal’s platform or all of the music if they can? Comerica has no trouble getting one for Ian Boxhill? Can you answer that question?




The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica. 


 


Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have. 
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place. 





If you're referencing material uploaded after Prince's passing that Prince was not alive to give approval to, then there is at least a possibility of wrongdoing.

If however, the estate are talking about material delivered to Tidal during Prince's lifetime - including all the exclusive material - that is nonsense and can easily be disproved, paper work or not.

Whatever, Tidal is the one streaming company Prince actually chose to work with and supported, whereas he openly criticised Spotify and Youtube, which is exactly where the estate has chosen to make his music available. Now those decisions might not be legally fraudulent, but they are certainly morally so, and clearly against Prince's wishes.
Reply #36 posted 11/11/17 1:08pm

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

Militant said:

laurarichardson said:

Militant said: —If Comerica has concrete proof why do not they not go to Federal court and get an order to remove the WB catalogue from Tidal’s platform or all of the music if they can? Comerica has no trouble getting one for Ian Boxhill? Can you answer that question?




The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica.

Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have.
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place.



Not true.

The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.

We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.

If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief

they are requesting in their Counterclaim.

But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.

Reply #37 posted 11/11/17 2:16pm

Strive

OperatingThetan said:

Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse and a number of other NPGMC and rare releases were available on Tidal long before Prince died and obviously with Prince's awareness. A simple view of his twitter account and statements in interviews proves this. There is no way Tidal could have uploaded their own copies of live songs from Prince's Piano and Microphone tour because nobody else would have access to these other than Prince. And Prince tweeted about these Tidal exclusive releases himself. As Prince continued to provide new, exclusive music to Tidal up until the week of his death, any genuine possible wrongdoing has to have occured after his passing.


Pretty much.



Prince got an equity stake like the other big artists with Tidal and everything after that initial part was all talk. Prince's death was a goldmine for them but it also left them in a bind since they couldn't prove anything he agreed to verbally.

I don't doubt that they tried to falsify papers so the agreement hold up in court. The people at Tidal are scumbags and Prince fell for their scam.

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #38 posted 11/11/17 5:47pm

206Michelle

Besides the playlists "Purple Picks of the Week" and "ALWAYS," which music of Prince's was on Tidal prior to his death?

[Edited 11/11/17 17:55pm]

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #39 posted 11/11/17 5:55pm

206Michelle

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Militant said:




The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica.

Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have.
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place.



Not true.

The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.

We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.

If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief

they are requesting in their Counterclaim.

But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.

Yes, the burden of proof rests with Comerica because Comerica is the plaintiff. However, TIDAL obviously is lacking a contract or some paperwork to substantiate the business relationship with Prince. Otherwise, why would Comerica be taking the time and incurring the cost to take TIDAL to court? Prince's estate is already complex enough as it is.

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #40 posted 11/11/17 5:57pm

OperatingThetan

I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below:


https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/677302144148463616

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/675717826208894976

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/642755318078812161

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/722176051367976960

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/710876387746258944

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/658725775600840704

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/707723801522352128

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/703969352291213312

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/689062116561518592

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/687014404580192256

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/681558744136871936

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/680414883356119040

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678983594291802114

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678765639301894144

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/676888106310627328

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/648578554087653376
Reply #41 posted 11/11/17 6:13pm

206Michelle

Prince clearly supported TIDAL. However, tweets supporting/endorsing TIDAL do not equal a contract.

OperatingThetan said:

I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below: https://mobile.twitter.co...4148463616 https://mobile.twitter.co...6208894976 https://mobile.twitter.co...8078812161 https://mobile.twitter.co...1367976960 https://mobile.twitter.co...7746258944 https://mobile.twitter.co...5600840704 https://mobile.twitter.co...1522352128 https://mobile.twitter.co...2291213312 https://mobile.twitter.co...6561518592 https://mobile.twitter.co...4580192256 https://mobile.twitter.co...4136871936 https://mobile.twitter.co...3356119040 https://mobile.twitter.co...4291802114 https://mobile.twitter.co...9301894144 https://mobile.twitter.co...6310627328 https://mobile.twitter.co...4087653376

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #42 posted 11/11/17 6:28pm

FlyOnTheWall

206Michelle said:

Prince clearly supported TIDAL. However, tweets supporting/endorsing TIDAL do not equal a contract.

OperatingThetan said:

I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below: https://mobile.twitter.co...4148463616 https://mobile.twitter.co...6208894976 https://mobile.twitter.co...8078812161 https://mobile.twitter.co...1367976960 https://mobile.twitter.co...7746258944 https://mobile.twitter.co...5600840704 https://mobile.twitter.co...1522352128 https://mobile.twitter.co...2291213312 https://mobile.twitter.co...6561518592 https://mobile.twitter.co...4580192256 https://mobile.twitter.co...4136871936 https://mobile.twitter.co...3356119040 https://mobile.twitter.co...4291802114 https://mobile.twitter.co...9301894144 https://mobile.twitter.co...6310627328 https://mobile.twitter.co...4087653376

It certainly speaks to intent.

Reply #43 posted 11/11/17 6:44pm

Mumio

206Michelle said:

Prince clearly supported TIDAL. However, tweets supporting/endorsing TIDAL do not equal a contract.

OperatingThetan said:

I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below: https://mobile.twitter.co...4148463616 https://mobile.twitter.co...6208894976 https://mobile.twitter.co...8078812161 https://mobile.twitter.co...1367976960 https://mobile.twitter.co...7746258944 https://mobile.twitter.co...5600840704 https://mobile.twitter.co...1522352128 https://mobile.twitter.co...2291213312 https://mobile.twitter.co...6561518592 https://mobile.twitter.co...4580192256 https://mobile.twitter.co...4136871936 https://mobile.twitter.co...3356119040 https://mobile.twitter.co...4291802114 https://mobile.twitter.co...9301894144 https://mobile.twitter.co...6310627328 https://mobile.twitter.co...4087653376



Are you a lawyer? Just curious due to some of the responses you've made on this thread.



[Edited 11/11/17 19:28pm]

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
Reply #44 posted 11/11/17 7:37pm

babynoz

Are people actually reading? From the article.....


In the latest in a long string of legal actions involving Prince's estate, his heirs are accusing Roc Nation of using a fraudulent contract to stream more than 500 of the artist's songs and videos.

Nearly 60 documents, most of them under seal, were filed Friday in U.S. District Court in St. Paul. The plaintiffs, Prince's NPG Records and Music Publishing, are now owned by the estate.

They allege that the defendants, Roc Nation LLC, Aspiro AB, Project Panther Ltd. and WiMP Music AS, fabricated and backdated a contract for the rights to stream Prince's music on Tidal. They say the defendants have failed to cooperate with the estate's request for documentation to prove they have a legitimate contract to use the artist's music.



According to the article the heirs filed these documents, but since the estate owns the everything I'm not sure even have standing to file a case independent of the estate?

Furthermore, Roc Nation IS among the defendants named and that is Jayz along with Live Nation, folks.

Finally, just because Prince had a gentleman's agreement to stream SOME of his music for a period of time does NOT automatically mean that Tidal has the right to stream ALL of his music in perpetuity. Trying to guess his intent at this point does NOT matter....contracts do, so stop thinking with your feelings please.

None of us have first hand knowlege of the agreement. For all we know, Prince was just helping them to launch Tidal. Their failure to produce a valid contract suggests that the agreement was not permanent.

Does anybody seriously believe that Prince would give ANYBODY in the entire universe access to his entire catalog for eternity? GTFOOHWTBS..... disbelief


Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
Reply #45 posted 11/11/17 7:52pm

laurarichardson

babynoz said:

Are people actually reading? From the article.....



In the latest in a long string of legal actions involving Prince's estate, his heirs are accusing Roc Nation of using a fraudulent contract to stream more than 500 of the artist's songs and videos.


Nearly 60 documents, most of them under seal, were filed Friday in U.S. District Court in St. Paul. The plaintiffs, Prince's NPG Records and Music Publishing, are now owned by the estate.


They allege that the defendants, Roc Nation LLC, Aspiro AB, Project Panther Ltd. and WiMP Music AS, fabricated and backdated a contract for the rights to stream Prince's music on Tidal. They say the defendants have failed to cooperate with the estate's request for documentation to prove they have a legitimate contract to use the artist's music.



According to the article the heirs filed these documents, but since the estate owns the everything I'm not sure even have standing to file a case independent of the estate?

Furthermore, Roc Nation IS among the defendants named and that is Jayz along with Live Nation, folks. 

Finally, just because Prince had a gentleman's agreement to stream SOME of his music for a period of time does NOT automatically mean that Tidal has the right to stream ALL of his music in perpetuity. Trying to guess his intent at this point does NOT matter....contracts do, so stop thinking with your feelings please. 

None of us have first hand knowlege of the agreement. For all we know, Prince was just helping them to launch Tidal. Their failure to produce a valid contract suggests that the agreement was not permanent. 

Does anybody seriously believe that Prince would give ANYBODY in the entire universe access to his entire catalog for eternity? GTFOOHWTBS..... disbelief



— I do not recall anywhere it was said that Tidal’s music for eternity that contest was suppose to be for 5 years. Also the heirs cannot file anything separate from the estate because they have not inherited anything which tells me whoever wrote the article does not know what they are even writing about.
Oh and according to the Wall Street Journal WB has the licensing agreement for the soundtracks forever and I do not see the estate disputing the WB agreement.
Reply #46 posted 11/11/17 7:56pm

laurarichardson

206Michelle said:

Prince clearly supported TIDAL. However, tweets supporting/endorsing TIDAL do not equal a contract. 



OperatingThetan said:


I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below: https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/677302144148463616 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/675717826208894976 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/642755318078812161 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/722176051367976960 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/710876387746258944 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/658725775600840704 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/707723801522352128 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/703969352291213312 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/689062116561518592 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/687014404580192256 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/681558744136871936 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/680414883356119040 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678983594291802114 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678765639301894144 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/676888106310627328 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/648578554087653376

 


It speaks to intent and if money was exchanged that is a problem. The estate has to prove that a contract was altered meaning there is a contract in place.
Reply #47 posted 11/11/17 7:59pm

laurarichardson

Militant said:

 



laurarichardson said:


Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple. 


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months. 

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about. 







-Londell is a business advisor to Sharon, Norriane and John. In the most recent docs Comerica is asking for a mediator to deal with the NDA they want Londell to sign and they want the mediators to deal with older sibs. LM is still on the scence stirring up trouble. Go to the estate topic and read away.

 




Sharon, Norrine and John are heirs. 


 


Heirs are not the Estate. 


 


Some of the heirs are happy with the Estate. Some of them are not. But none of them, right now, have any say in what the Estate decides to do or not do. 



Therefore Londell advising some of the heirs remains irrelevant to the TIDAL issue which is being pursued by the Estate and NOT the heirs. 



 



laurarichardson said:


Militant said:

If TIDAL had paperwork they would have provided it by now, it's really that simple. 


Also - Londell has nothing to do with this court case at this stage, because he does not represent the Estate and has not represented the Estate for over 6 months. 

Therefore..... anyone mentioning his name at this point in the game clearly does not know what they are talking about. 







—If Comerica has concrete proof why do not they not go to Federal court and get an order to remove the WB catalogue from Tidal’s platform or all of the music if they can? Comerica has no trouble getting one for Ian Boxhill? Can you answer that question?




The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica. 


 


Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have. 
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place. 




Sorry Ian claimed he had rights to that music and put it up on line. It is called copyright infringement and Comerica went to court and put a stop to it quickly. They can do the same with Tidal if they can prove that Tidal does not have a right to have the music up on that platform ask yourself why it is still up.
Reply #48 posted 11/11/17 8:02pm

laurarichardson

Strive said:

 



OperatingThetan said:


Chocolate Invasion, Slaughterhouse and a number of other NPGMC and rare releases were available on Tidal long before Prince died and obviously with Prince's awareness. A simple view of his twitter account and statements in interviews proves this. There is no way Tidal could have uploaded their own copies of live songs from Prince's Piano and Microphone tour because nobody else would have access to these other than Prince. And Prince tweeted about these Tidal exclusive releases himself. As Prince continued to provide new, exclusive music to Tidal up until the week of his death, any genuine possible wrongdoing has to have occured after his passing.


Pretty much.





Prince got an equity stake like the other big artists with Tidal and everything after that initial part was all talk. Prince's death was a goldmine for them but it also left them in a bind since they couldn't prove anything he agreed to verbally.

I don't doubt that they tried to falsify papers so the agreement hold up in court. The people at Tidal are scumbags and Prince fell for their scam. 


They claimed they paid him 3 million dollars how is that a scam. Do you honestly think Prince received equity in Tidal and not cash?
Reply #49 posted 11/11/17 8:04pm

laurarichardson

206Michelle said:

 



ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:


 



Militant said:


 





The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica. 


 


Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have. 
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place. 





 Not true.


The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.


We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.


If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief


they are requesting in their Counterclaim.


But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.



Yes, the burden of proof rests with Comerica because Comerica is the plaintiff. However, TIDAL obviously is lacking a contract or some paperwork to substantiate the business relationship with Prince.  Otherwise, why would Comerica be taking the time and incurring the cost to take TIDAL to court? Prince's estate is already complex enough as it is. 


Nothing is obvious. Comerica is going to have to prove that contracts were doctored. I wish them luck.
Reply #50 posted 11/11/17 8:06pm

laurarichardson

muleFunk said:

The question that I have is why did Sharon say tell us what you think the next release should be when they have no say in that release?


Because she is delusional and so are certain people who do not see a scam artist manipulating 3 elderly people.
Reply #51 posted 11/11/17 8:28pm

Strive

laurarichardson said:

Strive said:


Pretty much.



Prince got an equity stake like the other big artists with Tidal and everything after that initial part was all talk. Prince's death was a goldmine for them but it also left them in a bind since they couldn't prove anything he agreed to verbally.

I don't doubt that they tried to falsify papers so the agreement hold up in court. The people at Tidal are scumbags and Prince fell for their scam.

They claimed they paid him 3 million dollars how is that a scam. Do you honestly think Prince received equity in Tidal and not cash?


The estate claimed non-payment for HITNRUN and I absolutely believe that Prince took some equity. Jay-Z was going hard with the bullshit about artists building up a service for artists and Prince was hardcore into building black-owned businesses (which is probably why he gave them permission to stream all of his work) but all Jay-Z was trying to do was leverage his colleagues for a major payday. The dude is trash. Through and through.

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #52 posted 11/11/17 8:57pm

laurarichardson

Strive said:

 



laurarichardson said:


Strive said:

 



Pretty much.





Prince got an equity stake like the other big artists with Tidal and everything after that initial part was all talk. Prince's death was a goldmine for them but it also left them in a bind since they couldn't prove anything he agreed to verbally.

I don't doubt that they tried to falsify papers so the agreement hold up in court. The people at Tidal are scumbags and Prince fell for their scam. 



They claimed they paid him 3 million dollars how is that a scam. Do you honestly think Prince received equity in Tidal and not cash?


The estate claimed non-payment for HITNRUN and I absolutely believe that Prince took some equity. Jay-Z was going hard with the bullshit about artists building up a service for artists and Prince was hardcore into building black-owned businesses (which is probably why he gave them permission to stream all of his work) but all Jay-Z was trying to do was leverage his colleagues for a major payday. The dude is trash. Through and through. 


—Personal feelings mean nothing in a court of law. I believe Prince got equity and cash. It was Lonnie who claimed their was no payment and I have not seen any reference to missing money since Comerica took over.
Prince’s whole point was to get more revenue out of the streaming services I have no doubt he got money out and equity out of the Tidal deal. He was not sending them files, making playlists, and sending video for free.
[Edited 11/12/17 11:23am]
Reply #53 posted 11/12/17 6:08am

Militant

moderator

babynoz said:

Finally, just because Prince had a gentleman's agreement to stream SOME of his music for a period of time does NOT automatically mean that Tidal has the right to stream ALL of his music in perpetuity.  

None of us have first hand knowlege of the agreement. For all we know, Prince was just helping them to launch Tidal. Their failure to produce a valid contract suggests that the agreement was not permanent. 

Does anybody seriously believe that Prince would give ANYBODY in the entire universe access to his entire catalog for eternity? GTFOOHWTBS..... disbelief




Bingo.

Exactly this.

We know that Prince would have moved on to the next thing pretty damn quickly, as he always did. TIDAL sold 33% of the company to Sprint for hundreds of millions after Prince died and if they weren’t gonna give him a cut he would have noped the fuck outta there. Which is why he didn’t sign contracts.

Frankly, TIDAL failed to deliver on their “artist owned” shit - just ask Kanye. If someone THAT close to Jay has already ditched due to money issues..... you can bet P wasn’t gonna stick around on a sinking ship. TIDAL in 2017 has less than 1% streaming market share.

Spotify and YouTube already won the streaming wars. Even Apple Music is a zombie only being kept alive due to Apple throwing insane amounts of money at it. Anything else is dead in the water, and the idea that P would given his entire catalogue for any extended period of time to ANYONE especially a dying company is laughable.
Reply #54 posted 11/12/17 6:49am

muleFunk

laurarichardson said:

muleFunk said:

The question that I have is why did Sharon say tell us what you think the next release should be when they have no say in that release?

Because she is delusional and so are certain people who do not see a scam artist manipulating 3 elderly people.

nod

Reply #55 posted 11/12/17 7:35am

206Michelle

Mumio said:

 



206Michelle said:


Prince clearly supported TIDAL. However, tweets supporting/endorsing TIDAL do not equal a contract. 



OperatingThetan said:


I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below: https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/677302144148463616 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/675717826208894976 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/642755318078812161 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/722176051367976960 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/710876387746258944 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/658725775600840704 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/707723801522352128 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/703969352291213312 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/689062116561518592 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/687014404580192256 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/681558744136871936 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/680414883356119040 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678983594291802114 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678765639301894144 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/676888106310627328 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/648578554087653376

 





Are you a lawyer? Just curious due to some of the responses you've made on this thread.



[Edited 11/11/17 19:28pm]


No, I am not a lawyer. However, I have some basic understanding about how a civil trial works from doing 2 weeks of jury duty on a civil case, as well as some understanding of Special Education law.
Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #56 posted 11/12/17 7:46am

206Michelle

laurarichardson said:

206Michelle said:

Prince clearly supported TIDAL. However, tweets supporting/endorsing TIDAL do not equal a contract. 



OperatingThetan said:


I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted below: https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/677302144148463616 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/675717826208894976 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/642755318078812161 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/722176051367976960 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/710876387746258944 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/658725775600840704 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/707723801522352128 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/703969352291213312 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/689062116561518592 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/687014404580192256 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/681558744136871936 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/680414883356119040 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678983594291802114 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/678765639301894144 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/676888106310627328 https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/648578554087653376

 


It speaks to intent and if money was exchanged that is a problem. The estate has to prove that a contract was altered meaning there is a contract in place.

I agree that the tweets do speak to intent. With there being money and rights to share intellectual property at stake, who knows how much weight the Tweets have in a court case?
.
Laura, Could you be more specific about what you mean when you say “if money was exchanged that is a problem”? I am inferring that you mean Prince and TIDAL exchanged money, but I would like clarity. Also, could you clarify exactly what the “problem” is with the exchange of money? I want to make sure that I understand your point.
Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #57 posted 11/12/17 8:09am

Neversin

TrevorAyer said:

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?


When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #58 posted 11/12/17 11:21am

laurarichardson

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:


It speaks to intent and if money was exchanged that is a problem. The estate has to prove that a contract was altered meaning there is a contract in place.

I agree that the tweets do speak to intent. With there being money and rights to share intellectual property at stake, who knows how much weight the Tweets have in a court case?
.
Laura, Could you be more specific about what you mean when you say “if money was exchanged that is a problem”? I am inferring that you mean Prince and TIDAL exchanged money, but I would like clarity. Also, could you clarify exactly what the “problem” is with the exchange of money? I want to make sure that I understand your point.

—From earlier court docs Tidal claimed that they paid Prince 3 million dollars in four installments. If Tidal can prove they paid Prince the money and show that Prince sent then the initial files with some preplan to deliver the WB material on his birthday then you have exchange and a implied contract. We know some contract exsist now because Comerica is claiming it has been altered when before they claimed a contract did not exsist at all.
The sad thing is Prince wanted to work with this company and greed is making people actively go against his wishes.
[Edited 11/12/17 11:22am]
Reply #59 posted 11/12/17 11:34am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

babynoz said:

Finally, just because Prince had a gentleman's agreement to stream SOME of his music for a period of time does NOT automatically mean that Tidal has the right to stream ALL of his music in perpetuity.  

None of us have first hand knowlege of the agreement. For all we know, Prince was just helping them to launch Tidal. Their failure to produce a valid contract suggests that the agreement was not permanent. 

Does anybody seriously believe that Prince would give ANYBODY in the entire universe access to his entire catalog for eternity? GTFOOHWTBS..... disbelief




Bingo.

Exactly this.

We know that Prince would have moved on to the next thing pretty damn quickly, as he always did. TIDAL sold 33% of the company to Sprint for hundreds of millions after Prince died and if they weren’t gonna give him a cut he would have noped the fuck outta there. Which is why he didn’t sign contracts.

Frankly, TIDAL failed to deliver on their “artist owned” shit - just ask Kanye. If someone THAT close to Jay has already ditched due to money issues..... you can bet P wasn’t gonna stick around on a sinking ship. TIDAL in 2017 has less than 1% streaming market share.

Spotify and YouTube already won the streaming wars. Even Apple Music is a zombie only being kept alive due to Apple throwing insane amounts of money at it. Anything else is dead in the water, and the idea that P would given his entire catalogue for any extended period of time to ANYONE especially a dying company is laughable.

—The Sprint/ Tidal deal is a partnership. Nothing is being sold and nowhere has it been said the Tidal deal was forever. It is a five year deal. As long as any investor has equity their is a potential to make money if the business is purchased by another business entity. Please see the press release concerning the partnership not the sell of anything. No one is asking Kyane bi-polar ass anything he has own troubles.

http://investors.sprint.com/news-and-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Sprint-and-TIDAL-Partnership-Brings-Exclusive-Music-and-Entertainment-to-New-and-Current-Sprint-Customers-with-a-Complimentary-Six-Month-Trial-of-TIDAL-HiFi/default.aspx
[Edited 11/12/17 11:36am]
Reply #60 posted 11/12/17 2:30pm

IstenSzek

Neversin said:

TrevorAyer said:

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?


When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #61 posted 11/12/17 2:41pm

feeluupp

IstenSzek said:

Neversin said:


When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.


No it's not true.

The only unofficial promos out there of THE CHOCOLATE INVASION, THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE & XPECTATION are from a company called SILVERLINE RECORDS and they come in digipack and are sold on eBAY... Those are not official at all.

It has already been confirmed that no testpressing promos were ever officially made.

Reply #62 posted 11/12/17 3:14pm

DD55

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Militant said:




The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica.

Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have.
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place.



Not true.

The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.

We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.

If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief

they are requesting in their Counterclaim.

But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.

First let me admit I don’t know this works with regards to sending Tidal files. Do you hire someone to fly a flash drive to someone at Tidal, or simply email the files? And regardless of how the files got from P to Tidal, once Tidal uploaded them on their system there would be a time/date stamp. Computer forensics people look for that all the time…..

.

Now my question...

….

If Tidal can prove they received all the files prior to P’s death, would that be evidence of intent? Why send files to a company like Tidal if you don’t want them streamed or sold?

.

~~DD55

Reply #63 posted 11/12/17 4:54pm

djThunderfunk

IstenSzek said:

Neversin said:


When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.



I'd like to know more as well. Particularly, which version of Chocolate Invasion was planned for the 7-disc set.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
Reply #64 posted 11/12/17 5:26pm

IstenSzek

feeluupp said:

IstenSzek said:



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.


No it's not true.

The only unofficial promos out there of THE CHOCOLATE INVASION, THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE & XPECTATION are from a company called SILVERLINE RECORDS and they come in digipack and are sold on eBAY... Those are not official at all.

It has already been confirmed that no testpressing promos were ever officially made.


knowing Neversin, i don't think these are what he's talking about at all.
he doesn't say much but when he does say something it's worth having
a listen, that's all i know. so i'd like to know more about what he said.


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #65 posted 11/12/17 5:43pm

djThunderfunk

IstenSzek said:

feeluupp said:

No it's not true.

The only unofficial promos out there of THE CHOCOLATE INVASION, THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE & XPECTATION are from a company called SILVERLINE RECORDS and they come in digipack and are sold on eBAY... Those are not official at all.

It has already been confirmed that no testpressing promos were ever officially made.


knowing Neversin, i don't think these are what he's talking about at all.
he doesn't say much but when he does say something it's worth having
a listen, that's all i know. so i'd like to know more about what he said.



yeahthat

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
Reply #66 posted 11/13/17 1:57am

BartVanHemelen

Romeoblu said:

They obviously had some sought of agreement.

.

Seriously? "Sought" instead of "sort"? Seriously?

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #67 posted 11/13/17 1:59am

BartVanHemelen

laurarichardson said:

It is probably B.and it is possible that it was scheduled that music went up on Prince’s Birthday.

.

Prince was a JW, and didn't celebrate his birthday. If you're making shit up, don't be so obvious.

.


Vanity Sixx

.

Seriously?

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
Reply #68 posted 11/13/17 3:12am

CherryMoon57

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.





Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place.

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.


1EothlBmQeveXlmz15kwbMU2EY-FCJ-LkP1gvbId78xTMvaWvZzz30N6ipuHu9u0PKJ-AQNFLovfDEcgFajAkyMYex4HXmSpFR1BhBhL8yO56zXq5rPKEq6sN9Pbb_cP5m2ViI0


SVmLMjUF8iAxeCVP5hhFzsf0ZFi0rkvAvTI7X_Dbf0YNor2OKU79T5hR1DaFwAWPZeynK70BVO4-iWw6QazlhsLuR8XRbi1apJfgbmXJdZvIp1xsgBS-qUjjPxyjonsjyrZoQKg

[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]

Reply #69 posted 11/13/17 4:42am

laurarichardson

CherryMoon57 said:

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.





Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place.

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.


1EothlBmQeveXlmz15kwbMU2EY-FCJ-LkP1gvbId78xTMvaWvZzz30N6ipuHu9u0PKJ-AQNFLovfDEcgFajAkyMYex4HXmSpFR1BhBhL8yO56zXq5rPKEq6sN9Pbb_cP5m2ViI0


SVmLMjUF8iAxeCVP5hhFzsf0ZFi0rkvAvTI7X_Dbf0YNor2OKU79T5hR1DaFwAWPZeynK70BVO4-iWw6QazlhsLuR8XRbi1apJfgbmXJdZvIp1xsgBS-qUjjPxyjonsjyrZoQKg

[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]

The only problem once again is that at first the allegation was that no contract exsisted at all and now the allegation is that their is a contract that has been doctored. What will the allegation be next week?

Stop assuming that this deal did not have a contract and remember Tidal is a subsidary of a larger company and it is hightly unlikely that this whole deal was done without any contract simply due to vulnerablity that Tidal would have to being accused of copyright infringement.

Also once again someone explain that if massive copyright infringement is taking place how come Comerica has not gone to court to get an injunction to remove the WB material at least until the case goes to court.

Can someone explain that one?

[Edited 11/13/17 5:01am]

Reply #70 posted 11/13/17 4:46am

laurarichardson

DD55 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Not true.

The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.

We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.

If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief

they are requesting in their Counterclaim.

But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.

First let me admit I don’t know this works with regards to sending Tidal files. Do you hire someone to fly a flash drive to someone at Tidal, or simply email the files? And regardless of how the files got from P to Tidal, once Tidal uploaded them on their system there would be a time/date stamp. Computer forensics people look for that all the time…..

.

Now my question...

….

If Tidal can prove they received all the files prior to P’s death, would that be evidence of intent? Why send files to a company like Tidal if you don’t want them streamed or sold?

.

~~DD55

Yes, if Tidal can prove they received those files directly from Prince prior to his death with some prearranged time table it would prove intent. Also along with any money they paid Prince. Why would he have sent files if they were never to be put on the platform. I do not care what anyone on this board thinks. I simply think Comerica does not like some aspect of the deal with Tidal and wants to get out of it. I do not think Tidal has exclusivity and I think that is the only thing that Comerica is correct about.

Reply #71 posted 11/13/17 4:59am

laurarichardson

It is probably B.and it is possible that it was scheduled that music went up on Prince’s Birthday.

.

Prince was a JW, and didn't celebrate his birthday. If you're making shit up, don't be so obvious.

.-----

Sorry Bart but the people who had the conference on Prince in England said that they interviewed Bria Valente and she said the reason she broke up with Prince was because he did not that the JW beliefs seriously and she did. I would suspect that celebrating his birthday might have been one of those things he did not take seriously.

Also he had put out music on his birthday many times in the past. Also putting out music on Tidal on his birthday is not exactly like having a birthday party.

Can you ever bring anything of substance to a coversation?

BartVanHemelen said:

laurarichardson said:

Vanity Sixx

.

Seriously?

Reply #72 posted 11/13/17 7:24am

CherryMoon57

laurarichardson said:

CherryMoon57 said:



Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place.

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.


1EothlBmQeveXlmz15kwbMU2EY-FCJ-LkP1gvbId78xTMvaWvZzz30N6ipuHu9u0PKJ-AQNFLovfDEcgFajAkyMYex4HXmSpFR1BhBhL8yO56zXq5rPKEq6sN9Pbb_cP5m2ViI0


SVmLMjUF8iAxeCVP5hhFzsf0ZFi0rkvAvTI7X_Dbf0YNor2OKU79T5hR1DaFwAWPZeynK70BVO4-iWw6QazlhsLuR8XRbi1apJfgbmXJdZvIp1xsgBS-qUjjPxyjonsjyrZoQKg

[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]

The only problem once again is that at first the allegation was that no contract exsisted at all and now the allegation is that their is a contract that has been doctored. What will the allegation be next week?

Stop assuming that this deal did not have a contract and remember Tidal is a subsidary of a larger company and it is hightly unlikely that this whole deal was done without any contract simply due to vulnerablity that Tidal would have to being accused of copyright infringement.

Also once again someone explain that if massive copyright infringement is taking place how come Comerica has not gone to court to get an injunction to remove the WB material at least until the case goes to court.

Can someone explain that one?

[Edited 11/13/17 5:01am]


I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.


Reply #73 posted 11/13/17 8:57am

OperatingThetan

CherryMoon57 said:

 



laurarichardson said:


 



CherryMoon57 said:


 




Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place. 

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.


1EothlBmQeveXlmz15kwbMU2EY-FCJ-LkP1gvbId78xTMvaWvZzz30N6ipuHu9u0PKJ-AQNFLovfDEcgFajAkyMYex4HXmSpFR1BhBhL8yO56zXq5rPKEq6sN9Pbb_cP5m2ViI0


SVmLMjUF8iAxeCVP5hhFzsf0ZFi0rkvAvTI7X_Dbf0YNor2OKU79T5hR1DaFwAWPZeynK70BVO4-iWw6QazlhsLuR8XRbi1apJfgbmXJdZvIp1xsgBS-qUjjPxyjonsjyrZoQKg


[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]



The only problem once again is that at first the allegation was that no contract exsisted at all and now the allegation is that their is a contract that has been doctored. What will the allegation be next week? 


 


Stop assuming that this deal did not have a contract and remember Tidal is a subsidary of a larger company and it is hightly unlikely that this whole deal was done without any contract simply due to vulnerablity that Tidal would have to being accused of copyright infringement. 


 


Also once again someone explain that if massive copyright infringement is taking place how come Comerica has not gone to court to get an injunction to remove the WB material at least until the case goes to court.  


 


Can someone explain that one? 


[Edited 11/13/17 5:01am]




I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.




Exactly. Prince openly criticised Spotify and Youtube, yet those are the venues his estate chose to make his music available to. As I wrote earlier, that might not be legally fraudulent, but it arguably is ethically and morally so.

Whether Prince would have remained with Tidal for many years to come had he lived or whether he would've moved on after the deal expired is conjecture. What is categorically not conjecture nor in any doubt is that Prince chose to work exclusively with Tidal and was clearly happy with the terms and payment right up until his passing.
[Edited 11/13/17 9:10am]
Reply #74 posted 11/13/17 9:24am

laurarichardson

OperatingThetan said:

CherryMoon57 said:


I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.


Exactly. Prince openly criticised Spotify and Youtube, yet those are the venues his estate chose to make his music available to. As I wrote earlier, that might not be legally fraudulent, but it arguably is ethically and morally so. Whether Prince would have remained with Tidal for many years to come had he lived or whether he would've moved on after the deal expired is conjecture. What is categorically not conjecture nor in any doubt is that Prince chose to work exclusively with Tidal and was clearly happy with the terms and payment right up until his passing. [Edited 11/13/17 9:10am]

Co-sign I feel that it was extremely unethical to move his music to Sportify when it was known that he did not like the financial arrangements and had already set up a deal with Tidal.

I cannot understand the attacks on Tidal iniatlly by LM and the mainstream media when so much documentatio is avalible to the public that tell you exactly what Prince wanted. He did not have a will but he had contracts and the real question is why are the being breached to the point of causing lawsuits.

Reply #75 posted 11/13/17 9:51am

TrcikyChristopher

Militant said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]




No, of course not.

Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.

Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!

Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.

The only way they could have gotten away with this is

A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.

or

B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?






What get's me, Mil, is how they were able to get such high quality copies of NPGMC releases, etc. I'm sure CD rips could have been used for the other stuff, but the stuff that was originally released in highly compressed audio were suddenly available in near-lossless quality.

Perhaps P gave Tidal that access and was planning on releasing all the previous music on there eventually, but then he passed?

[Edited 11/13/17 9:54am]

Reply #76 posted 11/13/17 1:08pm

CherryMoon57

OperatingThetan said:

CherryMoon57 said:


I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.


Exactly. Prince openly criticised Spotify and Youtube, yet those are the venues his estate chose to make his music available to. As I wrote earlier, that might not be legally fraudulent, but it arguably is ethically and morally so. Whether Prince would have remained with Tidal for many years to come had he lived or whether he would've moved on after the deal expired is conjecture. What is categorically not conjecture nor in any doubt is that Prince chose to work exclusively with Tidal and was clearly happy with the terms and payment right up until his passing. [Edited 11/13/17 9:10am]


Yep

Reply #77 posted 11/13/17 1:58pm

laurarichardson

TrcikyChristopher said:

 



Militant said:


 



FlyOnTheWall said:


Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.


[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]



 





No, of course not. 


 


Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there. 


 


Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!


 


Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there. 


 


The only way they could have gotten away with this is 


 


A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it. 


 


or


 


B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?








 


 


 



What get's me, Mil, is how they were able to get such high quality copies of NPGMC releases, etc. I'm sure CD rips could have been used for the other stuff, but the stuff that was originally released in highly compressed audio were suddenly available in near-lossless quality.


Perhaps P gave Tidal that access and was planning on releasing all the previous music on there eventually, but then he passed?


 

[Edited 11/13/17 9:54am]


Of course they got the files from Prince or someone following Prince’s direction.
Reply #78 posted 11/13/17 3:25pm

OperatingThetan

The estate's story according to recent news items is that Tidal had Prince's permission to stream one album only - HITnRUN Phase One.

This is blatantly false and can be disproved by Prince's twitter and instagram accounts (see some of the tweets I posted above) and interviews given during the time period.
Reply #79 posted 11/13/17 4:31pm

laurarichardson

OperatingThetan said:

The estate's story according to recent news items is that Tidal had Prince's permission to stream one album only - HITnRUN Phase One. This is blatantly false and can be disproved by Prince's twitter and instagram accounts (see some of the tweets I posted above) and interviews given during the time period.

Ridculous, I guess Prince did not notice the NPG material on the site and I guess his double sent the "Purple Pick" and "Always" playlist. Wait he did not even realize that he sent the songs from the Atlanta show. He forgot he sent out tweets and did interviews.

People need to look past this and see the extreme unethical behavior. Does anyone think that Prince promoted Tidal for the sole purpose of streaming one album that did not come along until almost a year after the deal was agreed to.

Reply #80 posted 11/13/17 4:43pm

luvsexy4all

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

Reply #81 posted 11/13/17 6:57pm

laurarichardson

luvsexy4all said:

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

Reply #82 posted 11/14/17 6:25am

IstenSzek

laurarichardson said:

luvsexy4all said:

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.



they are obviously insane lol prince provided them with songs from the piano & microphone
shows up to the week before he died. why are these people being so difficult?

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #83 posted 11/14/17 6:48am

luvsexy4all

laurarichardson said:

luvsexy4all said:

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent

Reply #84 posted 11/14/17 8:45am

OperatingThetan

luvsexy4all said:

laurarichardson said:

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent

Why? This has been uploaded illegally by a third party to all streaming services (not just Tidal) and has no relation to this article or case.

Reply #85 posted 11/14/17 8:45am

paisleypark4

luvsexy4all said:

laurarichardson said:

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent


Madhouse 24, 16, 8, the Family Vanity 6 are all on Itunes, Spotify and Tidal not by the estates or Tidal's doing.

Tidal recently however deleted that 24 bootleg.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
Reply #86 posted 11/14/17 8:46am

OperatingThetan

If anybody would like further information regarding Londell's 'business practices' they should read this from page 26 onwards:

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...-10-17.pdf

Reply #87 posted 11/14/17 8:50am

OperatingThetan

IstenSzek said:

laurarichardson said:

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.



they are obviously insane lol prince provided them with songs from the piano & microphone
shows up to the week before he died. why are these people being so difficult?

It's clearly insane and can be disproved by a brief read of Prince's twitter account and even the most cursory glance at the material Prince provided to Tidal during his lifetime and the exclusive nature of much of it, righ up until the week of his passing. STILL, there are people here who should know better questioning Prince's intent regardless, probably more due to their own prejudices and preconceptions than anything else.

Reply #88 posted 11/14/17 8:51am

laurarichardson

paisleypark4 said:

luvsexy4all said:

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent


Madhouse 24, 16, 8, the Family Vanity 6 are all on Itunes, Spotify and Tidal not by the estates or Tidal's doing.

Tidal recently however deleted that 24 bootleg.

I contacted the estate about these titles so I am pretty sure they all will going soon.

Reply #89 posted 11/14/17 8:56am

laurarichardson

OperatingThetan said:

If anybody would like further information regarding Londell's 'business practices' they should read this from page 26 onwards:

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...-10-17.pdf

This asshole is trying to get his daughters music on Sportify by directly contacting Troy. WTF. I wonder if he is building SNJ for this time as estate business.

He is out trying to negotiate deals with his company which are competing with estate deals.

It is naked greed.

Reply #90 posted 11/14/17 10:21am

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame

Both sides have a good argument and that is why they are in litigation.

It was all cool while P was alive because the music he was giving to Tidal was

more than the Contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement stipulated.

Tidal uses the terms "course of dealing" which means a "Gentlemen's

Agreement" between Jay-z and P.

But P is no longer with us to give a verbal ok to Jay-z to stream additional music

so therein lies the problem.

Comerica is saying the contract does not allow for full access to Tidal.

[Edited 11/14/17 17:09pm]

Reply #91 posted 11/14/17 10:26am

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

paisleypark4 said:


Madhouse 24, 16, 8, the Family Vanity 6 are all on Itunes, Spotify and Tidal not by the estates or Tidal's doing.

Tidal recently however deleted that 24 bootleg.

I contacted the estate about these titles so I am pretty sure they all will going soon.

Did you contact the estate about Sheila too? wink

Reply #92 posted 11/14/17 10:33am

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

I contacted the estate about these titles so I am pretty sure they all will going soon.

Did you contact the estate about Sheila too? wink

I could but I told you before she placed the butterfly over the symbol and looking at the images Prince trademarked I do not think she is violating his trademark. All you have to do is make a variation on the design. Don't you think Sheila E can afford an attorney to advise her?

Don't you know that no amount of legal advice helps a bootlegger since they have no rights to the music they are stealing. Or do you think whoever put up 24 was sending the revenue to the Estate?

Reply #93 posted 11/14/17 10:36am

morningsong

All this sounds so complicated. I'm staying neutral, and just think this all is simply a misunderstanding, hopeful one that won't screw the fans when it's all settled.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
Reply #94 posted 11/14/17 10:40am

IstenSzek

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Both sides have a good argument and that is why they are in litigation.

It was all cool while P was alive because the music he was giving to Tidal was

more than the Contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement stipulated.

Tidal uses the terms "course of dealing" which means a "Gentlement's

Agreement" between Jay-z and P.

But P is no longer with us to give a verbal ok to Jay-z to stream additional music

so therein lies the problem.

Comerica is saying the contract does not allow for full access to Tidal.


that pretty much sums it up nod


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #95 posted 11/14/17 10:44am

laurarichardson

IstenSzek said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Both sides have a good argument and that is why they are in litigation.

It was all cool while P was alive because the music he was giving to Tidal was

more than the Contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement stipulated.

Tidal uses the terms "course of dealing" which means a "Gentlement's

Agreement" between Jay-z and P.

But P is no longer with us to give a verbal ok to Jay-z to stream additional music

so therein lies the problem.

Comerica is saying the contract does not allow for full access to Tidal.


that pretty much sums it up nod


We will see but I still say if all this massive copyright infringment were going on that material could have been removed. Tidal has claim to more then just Hit and Run and I think we know how wrong this all is on an ethical level and even money wise. What company would shell out money and then give back the deliverables before the deal ends?

Reply #96 posted 11/14/17 10:51am

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Did you contact the estate about Sheila too? wink

I could but I told you before she placed the butterfly over the symbol and looking at the images Prince trademarked I do not think she is violating his trademark. All you have to do is make a variation on the design. Don't you think Sheila E can afford an attorney to advise her?

Don't you know that no amount of legal advice helps a bootlegger since they have no rights to the music they are stealing. Or do you think whoever put up 24 was sending the revenue to the Estate?

And no amount of legal advice helps anybody who is infringing on a copyright or trademark either.

Reply #97 posted 11/14/17 11:30am

Replica

Prince hated contracts, and probably just had a verbal agreement. Prince was known for getting what he wanted, just because he was Prince. And a prince can get whatever he wants. This is a problem when he's not here to tell us what the agreement was/is. In my opinion, Jay Z has to accept that this agreement is worthless now, and let this be a lesson for future agreements. An agreement has to be in black and white... and SIGNED.

Reply #98 posted 11/14/17 11:53am

laurarichardson

Replica said:

Prince hated contracts, and probably just had a verbal agreement. Prince was known for getting what he wanted, just because he was Prince. And a prince can get whatever he wants. This is a problem when he's not here to tell us what the agreement was/is. In my opinion, Jay Z has to accept that this agreement is worthless now, and let this be a lesson for future agreements. An agreement has to be in black and white... and SIGNED.

What are you even going on about? You have know what he hated. Prince had real estate which requires signing a contract, a book deal, and even employment contracts. Stop believeing everything you read in the gossip rags.

I think a lot of people forgot about the Power Of Attorney that Tidal is saying they have for these documents or that Phedra appears to be siding with Tidal. If the POA and the contract were backdated that would imply that some sort of conspiracy between Tidal, Pheadra, and the Bay area attorney was going on from the minute Prince passed.

[Edited 11/14/17 11:54am]

Reply #99 posted 11/14/17 11:59am

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

I could but I told you before she placed the butterfly over the symbol and looking at the images Prince trademarked I do not think she is violating his trademark. All you have to do is make a variation on the design. Don't you think Sheila E can afford an attorney to advise her?

Don't you know that no amount of legal advice helps a bootlegger since they have no rights to the music they are stealing. Or do you think whoever put up 24 was sending the revenue to the Estate?

And no amount of legal advice helps anybody who is infringing on a copyright or trademark either.

What do you mean. If I wanted to come up with a logo that was similar to another logo. I would contact an attorney who specialized in Patents and trademarks and get their advice on the design.

You would get advice before hand. Sheila said in her book that Santana called her the black butterfly so I take this logo to be the symbol and the butterfly intertwined together.

If you make a bootlegg of someone's music and steal royalties you are correct legal advice is not going to help but if you think you know best why don't you contact Comerica about Sheila E. Maybe they will give Sheila back her drums.

Reply #100 posted 11/14/17 12:59pm

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

And no amount of legal advice helps anybody who is infringing on a copyright or trademark either.

What do you mean. If I wanted to come up with a logo that was similar to another logo. I would contact an attorney who specialized in Patents and trademarks and get their advice on the design.

You would get advice before hand. Sheila said in her book that Santana called her the black butterfly so I take this logo to be the symbol and the butterfly intertwined together.

If you make a bootlegg of someone's music and steal royalties you are correct legal advice is not going to help but if you think you know best why don't you contact Comerica about Sheila E. Maybe they will give Sheila back her drums.

Why are you so hateful with everyone? Seriously stop being so rude. For Christ's sake did you not see the wink in my post.

You are the one turning everybody in to the Estate. lol

Reply #101 posted 11/14/17 2:20pm

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

 



laurarichardson said:


 



PennyPurple said:


 


And no amount of legal advice helps anybody who is infringing on a copyright or trademark either.



What do you mean. If I wanted to come up with a logo that was similar to another logo. I would contact an attorney who specialized in Patents and trademarks and get their advice on the design. 


 


You would get advice before hand. Sheila said in her book that Santana called her the black butterfly so I take this logo to be the symbol and the butterfly intertwined together.  


 


If you make a bootlegg of someone's music and steal royalties you are correct legal advice is not going to help but if you think you know best why don't you contact Comerica about Sheila E. Maybe they will give Sheila back her drums. 


 


 



Why are you so hateful with everyone? Seriously stop being so rude. For Christ's sake did you not see the wink in my post.

You are the one turning everybody in to the Estate. lol 


—Nothing rude or hateful. Just pointing out facts.
Reply #102 posted 11/14/17 3:55pm

babynoz

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Both sides have a good argument and that is why they are in litigation.

It was all cool while P was alive because the music he was giving to Tidal was

more than the Contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement stipulated.

Tidal uses the terms "course of dealing" which means a "Gentlement's

Agreement" between Jay-z and P.

But P is no longer with us to give a verbal ok to Jay-z to stream additional music

so therein lies the problem.

Comerica is saying the contract does not allow for full access to Tidal.



Thank you. In the absence of a valid contract that agreement ended when Prince passed.

Stop being rational why don't 'cha..... lol

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
Reply #103 posted 11/14/17 3:57pm

babynoz

Replica said:

Prince hated contracts, and probably just had a verbal agreement. Prince was known for getting what he wanted, just because he was Prince. And a prince can get whatever he wants. This is a problem when he's not here to tell us what the agreement was/is. In my opinion, Jay Z has to accept that this agreement is worthless now, and let this be a lesson for future agreements. An agreement has to be in black and white... and SIGNED.



yeahthat

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
Reply #104 posted 11/14/17 4:41pm

Militant

moderator

laurarichardson said:

—The Sprint/ Tidal deal is a partnership. Nothing is being sold


Yeah?


I'll quote Bart : Stop making shit up.



9SGAVQc.jpg




Reply #105 posted 11/15/17 4:28am

laurarichardson

Please see the press release from Sprint below. I will even put up the headline for you. Sprint views this as a partership because when you have a 33% stake in something you are not an owner. Stop getting things from the media and go directly to the source.

Sprint and TIDAL Partnership Brings Exclusive Music and Entertainment to New and Current Sprint Customers with a Complimentary Six-Month Trial of TIDAL HiFi

http://investors.sprint.com/news-and-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2017/Sprint-and-TIDAL-Partnership-Brings-Exclusive-Music-and-Entertainment-to-New-and-Current-Sprint-Customers-with-a-Complimentary-Six-Month-Trial-of-TIDAL-HiFi/default.aspx

In addition, the TIDAL and Sprint partnership will support the 1Million Project, an initiative from Sprint and the Sprint Foundation that will connect 1 million low-income U.S. high school students who don’t have internet access at home, to help level the playing field and eliminate the “homework gap.” Participating students will receive free mobile devices and free high-speed wireless internet connectivity while in high school for up to four years.

Starting June 9, Sprint will donate $2 from every new line activation with a device purchase or lease – up to $1 million – to support the 1Million Project.4 For more information about Sprint’s initiative to equip high school students with the tools they need to succeed, visit sprint.com/1millionproject.

“Education is key to a bright future, and unfortunately not everyone has access to the tools and resources needed to succeed, including internet access and mobile devices,” said TIDAL artist-owner, Nicki Minaj. “I’m so proud to work with Sprint and TIDAL, who are prioritizing programs like the 1Million Project in order to ensure that a student’s zip code and family financial situation aren’t roadblocks to a successful future.”

As Sprint and TIDAL continue to deliver an unparalleled entertainment experience, Sprint customers can expect to enjoy more exclusive content from their favorite artists during the next few months. Among the highly anticipated content are special exclusives for Sprint customers and existing TIDAL members. Music fans are encouraged to sign up now.

Following this year’s announcement that Sprint acquired 33 percent of TIDAL as a result of a game-changing partnership, the platforms have collaborated on unique opportunities such as the pop-concert series with the renowned “King Of Bachata,” Romeo Santos.

More than just a music-streaming service, TIDAL is committed to connecting fans with their favorite musicians. The platform provides members on-demand access to more than 48.5 million music tracks, 175,000 videos, carefully curated playlists by industry experts and artists, exclusive content, livestreams, videos, concert tickets and unique fan experiences.

Militant said:

laurarichardson said:

—The Sprint/ Tidal deal is a partnership. Nothing is being sold


Yeah?


I'll quote Bart : Stop making shit up.



9SGAVQc.jpg




Reply #106 posted 11/15/17 4:29am

laurarichardson

babynoz said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Both sides have a good argument and that is why they are in litigation.

It was all cool while P was alive because the music he was giving to Tidal was

more than the Contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement stipulated.

Tidal uses the terms "course of dealing" which means a "Gentlement's

Agreement" between Jay-z and P.

But P is no longer with us to give a verbal ok to Jay-z to stream additional music

so therein lies the problem.

Comerica is saying the contract does not allow for full access to Tidal.



Thank you. In the absence of a valid contract that agreement ended when Prince passed.

Stop being rational why don't 'cha..... lol

It is what you can prove in court. Allegations mean nothing.

Reply #107 posted 11/15/17 1:30pm

Neversin

IstenSzek said:

Neversin said:


When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.



It's nothing special, they're just "official" white sleeved (photocopied) NPG Records CDr's from Paisley Park (like the "Xenophobia" CDr and the "One Night Alone Live" CDr "sampler" that was sent to radio stations to promote the live set...)
They're, obvious when compared to the NPGMC rips, lossless and the tracklisting is the same as on Tidal, but again, different timestamps to be straight rips from this set...
The comparison of "The War" from the set with the official 1 track CD showed it was 100% exactly, to the millisecond, the same...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Reply #108 posted 11/15/17 4:49pm

IstenSzek

Neversin said:

IstenSzek said:



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.



It's nothing special, they're just "official" white sleeved (photocopied) NPG Records CDr's from Paisley Park (like the "Xenophobia" CDr and the "One Night Alone Live" CDr "sampler" that was sent to radio stations to promote the live set...)
They're, obvious when compared to the NPGMC rips, lossless and the tracklisting is the same as on Tidal, but again, different timestamps to be straight rips from this set...
The comparison of "The War" from the set with the official 1 track CD showed it was 100% exactly, to the millisecond, the same...

Neversin.


cool! thanks neversin. cool

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
Reply #109 posted 11/16/17 4:52am

laurarichardson

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.



BIG THANK U 2 4 giving a place where he feels comfortable 2 create & RELEASE such AMAZING MUSIC

--------

Replying to

We're proud 2 B a part of the ! Now everyone go stream 2nite. 💜🎵

Reply #110 posted 11/16/17 5:24pm

djThunderfunk

Neversin said:

IstenSzek said:



wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.



It's nothing special, they're just "official" white sleeved (photocopied) NPG Records CDr's from Paisley Park (like the "Xenophobia" CDr and the "One Night Alone Live" CDr "sampler" that was sent to radio stations to promote the live set...)
They're, obvious when compared to the NPGMC rips, lossless and the tracklisting is the same as on Tidal, but again, different timestamps to be straight rips from this set...
The comparison of "The War" from the set with the official 1 track CD showed it was 100% exactly, to the millisecond, the same...

Neversin.


Thanks for the info, Neversin!

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
Reply #111 posted 11/16/17 7:28pm

206Michelle

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Both sides have a good argument and that is why they are in litigation.

It was all cool while P was alive because the music he was giving to Tidal was

more than the Contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement stipulated.

Tidal uses the terms "course of dealing" which means a "Gentlemen's

Agreement" between Jay-z and P.

But P is no longer with us to give a verbal ok to Jay-z to stream additional music

so therein lies the problem.

Comerica is saying the contract does not allow for full access to Tidal.

[Edited 11/14/17 17:09pm]

yeahthat

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #112 posted 11/16/17 7:38pm

206Michelle

laurarichardson said:

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.



BIG THANK U 2 4 giving a place where he feels comfortable 2 create & RELEASE such AMAZING MUSIC

--------

Replying to

We're proud 2 B a part of the ! Now everyone go stream 2nite. 💜🎵

I hear what you are saying, Laura, but supporting TIDAL on Twitter does not equal a contract with TIDAL.

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
Reply #113 posted 11/17/17 9:26am

laurarichardson

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:

BIG THANK U 2 4 giving a place where he feels comfortable 2 create & RELEASE such AMAZING MUSIC

--------

Replying to

We're proud 2 B a part of the ! Now everyone go stream 2nite. 💜🎵

I hear what you are saying, Laura, but supporting TIDAL on Twitter does not equal a contract with TIDAL.

That is true but do you honestly think they gave Prince 1 million dollars without a contract or any sort of guarantee of a deliverable? According to earlier court docs $750k was sent at one last year the estate was saying the other $750 was unpaid. Later Tidal came back and said two additional payments were made. Once a week before his death and one in the fall. Just the fact that a payment schedule was in place makes me believe some sort of agreement be it oral or written was in place.

I also notice that the estate

We know no one from Tidal broke in a stole the NPG files and don't you think WB might have a problem with the WB material being on Tidal since they have a license deal with Prince/Estate?

How come the estate filled their lawsuit this time last year and wanted to obtain an injunction to take the music off Tidal yet a year later the music is still up on the site. How is Tidal getting away with this massive copyright infringement of 500 songs with the Federal court putting a stop to it at least until the court date arrives?

I believe there is a contract (because at first the Estate said there was none at all) and then the dispute was the terms and now the contract has been back dated. Seems like the strategy has changed 3 times now. I think a contract exsist and may be vague as to the deliverables and the royatly payment may not be what the estate mangers fill is adequate and they are now trying to get out of the deal.

It does not make sense to get out of since thousands of other artist and labels work with Tidal and if Prince had equity in the business and it ever gets sold that would be more money for the estate.

Why not just try to renegotiate or ride it out until the contract ends? The contract is only for five years not forever.

Reply #114 posted 11/17/17 1:44pm

babynoz

laurarichardson said:

babynoz said:



Thank you. In the absence of a valid contract that agreement ended when Prince passed.

Stop being rational why don't 'cha..... lol

It is what you can prove in court. Allegations mean nothing.



It is what is written in a VALID CONTRACT in or out of court, period. Speculations from fammys on the org mean nothing.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
Reply #115 posted 11/18/17 5:45am

laurarichardson

babynoz said:

 



laurarichardson said:


 



babynoz said:


 




Thank you. In the absence of a valid contract that agreement ended when Prince passed.

Stop being rational why don't 'cha..... lol



It is what you can prove in court. Allegations mean nothing. 





It is what is written in a VALID CONTRACT in or out of court, period. Speculations from fammys on the org mean nothing. 


—Allegations do not mean anything either if you cannot prove them. Snarky ass comments that had nothing to the conversation mean nothing either.
Reply #116 posted 11/18/17 7:48am

OperatingThetan

babynoz said:

laurarichardson said:

It is what you can prove in court. Allegations mean nothing.



It is what is written in a VALID CONTRACT in or out of court, period. Speculations from fammys on the org mean nothing.

Agreeably, Prince's tweets do not constitute a written contract but they do clearly express intent and are far from speculative.

Reply #117 posted 11/18/17 10:19am

djThunderfunk

Is it possible that it's a little bit column A, a little bit column B?

Here's how I see it. I think it is obvious that Prince did choose Tidal and did give them more than the estate is claiming. But, I also think that after his passing, Tidal abused their position and claimed rights beyond what was agreed upon.

It just doesn't seem black and white to me. Both Tidal and the estate seem a bit shady about this.

That said, Prince is dead, it's up to the estate now. Tidal should only have material that Prince obviously intended for them to post which would be anything they had while he was alive or anything that they can prove the right to via contracts.


No?


We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
Reply #118 posted 11/18/17 12:29pm

luvsexy4all

has Tidal claimed there is a physical contract???????

Reply #119 posted 11/19/17 5:48pm

laurarichardson

djThunderfunk said:

Is it possible that it's a little bit column A, a little bit column B?

Here's how I see it. I think it is obvious that Prince did choose Tidal and did give them more than the estate is claiming. But, I also think that after his passing, Tidal abused their position and claimed rights beyond what was agreed upon.

It just doesn't seem black and white to me. Both Tidal and the estate seem a bit shady about this.

That said, Prince is dead, it's up to the estate now. Tidal should only have material that Prince obviously intended for them to post which would be anything they had while he was alive or anything that they can prove the right to via contracts.


No?


Comerica will not be able to do anything with whatever material is in a valid contract. Anything that was vague Comerica can argue about but at the end of the day their was intent and no company is going to give someone money up front without something in writing.

The estate has changed the situation 3 times so at this point I believe they just do not like the terms of the deal and want to find a means to get out of it.

From what I am reading it seems that Pheadra is siding with Tidal whic makes me very suscipious of these fraud claims.

It would not surprise me if the two sides reach an agreement to settle this matter.

Reply #120 posted 11/19/17 6:20pm

Strive

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.



edit: Found it.

When we worked with him, there was no manager, no lawyer, no agent, no business manager. It was just him and the two of us. And when we started this [Musicology] thing, Paul and I had a sit-down with [billionaire AEG owner] Phil [Anschutz] one day, we had to tell Phil that Prince won't sign anything, there's no contract. And Phil asks, "if he doesn't show up, how much are we going to be out?" And I think we would probably have been out $2-3 million in production expenses, a couple million in advertising, so if he doesn't show up we're going to lose $5 million. So Phil looks at us and asks, "do you think he's going to do it?" And Paul and I said, "yeah, we think he really wants to do this." And that tour was flawless. We produced and promoted it, there were no other people involved in that tour. We hired everybody.


We booked 21 nights in London, that was before anybody else had done a residency in an arena. Strangely enough, Phil [Anschutz] allowed us to do this with no written contract. Eighty-eight shows on Musicology, then six months of the 3121 Club in Vegas, the Super Bowl Halftime show, 21 nights at the O2 in London, then he played here at Coachella, all with no contract.


http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #121 posted 11/20/17 1:32am

laurarichardson

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it. 

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince. 





edit: Found it.

When we worked with him, there was no manager, no lawyer, no agent, no business manager. It was just him and the two of us. And when we started this [Musicology] thing, Paul and I had a sit-down with [billionaire AEG owner] Phil [Anschutz] one day, we had to tell Phil that Prince won't sign anything, there's no contract. And Phil asks, "if he doesn't show up, how much are we going to be out?" And I think we would probably have been out $2-3 million in production expenses, a couple million in advertising, so if he doesn't show up we're going to lose $5 million. So Phil looks at us and asks, "do you think he's going to do it?" And Paul and I said, "yeah, we think he really wants to do this." And that tour was flawless. We produced and promoted it, there were no other people involved in that tour. We hired everybody.


We booked 21 nights in London, that was before anybody else had done a residency in an arena. Strangely enough, Phil [Anschutz] allowed us to do this with no written contract. Eighty-eight shows on Musicology, then six months of the 3121 Club in Vegas, the Super Bowl Halftime show, 21 nights at the O2 in London, then he played here at Coachella, all with no contract.
 


 
http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]


—This is true but I am not so sure he would get equity without a contract? I also have my doubts that the parent company which is not a US company would go along.
Reply #122 posted 11/20/17 5:40am

Strive

laurarichardson said:

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.



edit: Found it.


http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

—This is true but I am not so sure he would get equity without a contract? I also have my doubts that the parent company which is not a US company would go along.


My theory was he signed an equity deal with the idea of letting them stream the Warner albums and expanded the deal verbally after that.

It's just speculation but it makes the most sense. Prince was alive when the deal expanded into new music/the Purple Pick Of The Week and I'm pretty sure he was alive when they started putting up the NPG records. Yet the estate is claiming that they have no rights to the NPG records and there was only a small window of exclusivity with the HITNRUN albums. They aren't trying to make the claim that everything regarding Tidal is false.



If Tidal had the paperwork and went through all the proper channels, it'd be an open and shut case. Instead Prince's sudden death left them with their dicks in their hands. I let my feelings about Jay-Z and Tidal be known so, in my mind, everything from them knowingly overstepping the written deal with the idea they could legalize it later by just buying the rights... to them actually forging documents to try to make the verbal agreement into a paper one that could hold up in court (or at least give them enough time and leverage to force the estate into a deal that would wash away all their past transgressions) is possible.

[Edited 11/20/17 14:35pm]

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
Reply #123 posted 11/20/17 6:56pm

laurarichardson

Strive said:

 



laurarichardson said:


Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it. 

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince. 





edit: Found it.

 


 
http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview


[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]



—This is true but I am not so sure he would get equity without a contract? I also have my doubts that the parent company which is not a US company would go along.


My theory was he signed an equity deal with the idea of letting them stream the Warner albums and expanded the deal verbally after that. 

It's just speculation but it makes the most sense. Prince was alive when the deal expanded into new music/the Purple Pick Of The Week and I'm pretty sure he was alive when they started putting up the NPG records. Yet the estate is claiming that they have no rights to the NPG records and there was only a small window of exclusivity with the HITNRUN albums. They aren't trying to make the claim that everything regarding Tidal is false. 





If Tidal had the paperwork and went through all the proper channels, it'd be an open and shut case. Instead Prince's sudden death left them with their dicks in their hands. I let my feelings about Jay-Z and Tidal be known so, in my mind, everything from them knowingly overstepping the written deal with the idea they could legalize it later by just buying the rights... to them actually forging documents to try to make the verbal agreement into a paper one that could hold up in court (or at least give them enough time and leverage to force the estate into a deal that would wash away all their past transgressions) is possible. 

[Edited 11/20/17 14:35pm]


If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to an injunction to get the songs off of the platform? Equity is one thing but it would not allow for massive copyright infringement. Also Phedra appears to be siding with Tidal and Tidal claims someone had POA to sign for Prince. How is the estate going to prove that documents were forged when the manger of the LLC is siding with Tidal? This is going to be hard to prove unless they can get the attorneys involved with deal to fess up. At the end of the day the whole thing is ethical because it is what Prince wanted and if he had equity and royalties are being paid what is really the problem?
[Edited 11/20/17 18:56pm]
Reply #124 posted 11/21/17 8:15am

luvsexy4all

prince is in heaven laughing at all the commotion over him

Reply #125 posted 11/21/17 10:07am

DD55

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.



edit: Found it.

When we worked with him, there was no manager, no lawyer, no agent, no business manager. It was just him and the two of us. And when we started this [Musicology] thing, Paul and I had a sit-down with [billionaire AEG owner] Phil [Anschutz] one day, we had to tell Phil that Prince won't sign anything, there's no contract. And Phil asks, "if he doesn't show up, how much are we going to be out?" And I think we would probably have been out $2-3 million in production expenses, a couple million in advertising, so if he doesn't show up we're going to lose $5 million. So Phil looks at us and asks, "do you think he's going to do it?" And Paul and I said, "yeah, we think he really wants to do this." And that tour was flawless. We produced and promoted it, there were no other people involved in that tour. We hired everybody.


We booked 21 nights in London, that was before anybody else had done a residency in an arena. Strangely enough, Phil [Anschutz] allowed us to do this with no written contract. Eighty-eight shows on Musicology, then six months of the 3121 Club in Vegas, the Super Bowl Halftime show, 21 nights at the O2 in London, then he played here at Coachella, all with no contract.


http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

Strive, these quotes plays into the Prince myth and I’m willing to bet P himself allowed this myth to be perpetuated. However, in reality I can’t imagine Prince entering into any agreement without complete documentation giving him total control of his likeness and sound, including allowing for legal recourse if that ‘agreement’ was not honored. These quotes make nice stories but there is a lot of wiggle room in a newspaper quote/story. Maybe our legal experts can comment and give their opinion. Just my opinion. Peace ~~DD55

Reply #126 posted 11/21/17 11:56am

laurarichardson

DD55 said:

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.



edit: Found it.


http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

Strive, these quotes plays into the Prince myth and I’m willing to bet P himself allowed this myth to be perpetuated. However, in reality I can’t imagine Prince entering into any agreement without complete documentation giving him total control of his likeness and sound, including allowing for legal recourse if that ‘agreement’ was not honored. These quotes make nice stories but there is a lot of wiggle room in a newspaper quote/story. Maybe our legal experts can comment and give their opinion. Just my opinion. Peace ~~DD55

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

Reply #127 posted 11/21/17 12:09pm

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

Reply #128 posted 11/21/17 12:21pm

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

Reply #129 posted 11/21/17 12:37pm

paisleypark4

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.


I'm not sure how Tidal got all of Prince's albums and songs streaming in such quality (many of which were never available) in HIFI and artwork in such detail without Prince having given Tidal something to go off on.

Albums like Chocolate Invasion, Exodus and Slaughterhouse were never on any music streaming media format other than the NPGMC, and is under legal credit to NPG Records on Tidal. I really think Prince was okay with this, and was pretty clear this is what he wanted and where he wanted his music to come from.

The other hand is...is the Estate making any profit off from the streams and such? That's what i want to know. If so then I don't see whats wrong with it.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
Reply #130 posted 11/21/17 12:45pm

laurarichardson

paisleypark4 said:

laurarichardson said:

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.


I'm not sure how Tidal got all of Prince's albums and songs streaming in such quality (many of which were never available) in HIFI and artwork in such detail without Prince having given Tidal something to go off on.

Albums like Chocolate Invasion, Exodus and Slaughterhouse were never on any music streaming media format other than the NPGMC, and is under legal credit to NPG Records on Tidal. I really think Prince was okay with this, and was pretty clear this is what he wanted and where he wanted his music to come from.

The other hand is...is the Estate making any profit off from the streams and such? That's what i want to know. If so then I don't see whats wrong with it.

I believe the estate is getting royaties maybe not as much as they would like but if no money was coming in they would have got an injuction to get the music off of Tidal. If they are getting money and the deal ends in a few years what is the big deal.

Not to mention that these accusations of fraud could led to Tidal to file a suit against the estate.

Reply #131 posted 11/21/17 12:48pm

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

Yeah, I'm getting a piece of the action....WTF? lol wacky


How much are they paying you to report everything? But yet you sure like the bootleg of Mayte's book. lol

Reply #132 posted 11/21/17 5:57pm

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

Yeah, I'm getting a piece of the action....WTF? lol wacky


How much are they paying you to report everything? But yet you sure like the bootleg of Mayte's book. lol

What a shame you do not understand sarcasm. You are bugged that some butt face cannot steal from the estate. Are you working for SNJ and LM? Oh and me and about 1000 got that pdf for free and I am sure none of us were going to purchase it in the first place.

Reply #133 posted 11/21/17 7:31pm

PennyPurple

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Yeah, I'm getting a piece of the action....WTF? lol wacky


How much are they paying you to report everything? But yet you sure like the bootleg of Mayte's book. lol

What a shame you do not understand sarcasm. You are bugged that some butt face cannot steal from the estate. Are you working for SNJ and LM? Oh and me and about 1000 got that pdf for free and I am sure none of us were going to purchase it in the first place.

Where do you come up with this stuff? LMAO.

BTW....you made sure you read it. lol

Reply #134 posted 11/21/17 7:52pm

laurarichardson

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

What a shame you do not understand sarcasm. You are bugged that some butt face cannot steal from the estate. Are you working for SNJ and LM? Oh and me and about 1000 got that pdf for free and I am sure none of us were going to purchase it in the first place.

Where do you come up with this stuff? LMAO.

BTW....you made sure you read it. lol

Please find the parts for your head. You are the one worrying about me contacting the estate concerning copyright infringment thus it appears you are okay with stealing. These are your comments.

URL: http://prince.org/msg/7/448994

Date printed: Thu 23rd Nov 2017 7:34pm PST