Lovejunky said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

udo: stop being so logical.

Scroll to page 32 and the First Part of your question may be answered in part....

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...randum.pdf

.

Thanks, that helps for a bit!

Lovejunky, I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong, hopefully ISLIJAG comes along and corrects if needed, but I don't believe that Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins stepped aside of her own volition. Prince's death is what dictated that move because the estate became responsible for NPG Music and the estate (Bremer) notified her that her position was terminated as a result. I believe she indicated she never received that initial letter from Bremer and there may have been actions she took in the role she still thought she was in that caused her concern. I believe that was why she needed that confirmation that she faced no potential liability. I can't blame her for wanting that confirmation.


ETA: Here is the document which includes a copy of the letter Bremer sent Phaedra in May 2016: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...s-1-3).pdf

Lovejunky said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...tition.pdf

Ms. Ellis-Lamkins sought confirmation that she was effectively removed from her position as manager of NPG Music Publishing, LLC (“NPG Music”) to ensure she did not face potential liability for the actions of the Special Administrator on behalf of NPG Music.

THis seems to indicate that she was not in agreement with the "special Administrator"

Further...the last time Phaedra signed was as late as Jan 8 2018 (see page 42)

so 6 weeks before P left us

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...randum.pdf

I believe that Phaedra stepped aside, however I dont believe she would have done this unless she was absolutely sure that Princes Catalogue was SAFE.

[Edited 7/31/17 9:31am]

udo said:

Mumio said:

Lovejunky, I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong, hopefully ISLIJAG comes along and corrects if needed, but I don't believe that Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins stepped aside of her own volition. Prince's death is what dictated that move because the estate became responsible for NPG Music and the estate (Bremer) notified her that her position was terminated as a result. I believe she indicated she never received that initial letter from Bremer and there may have been actions she took in the role she still thought she was in that caused her concern. I believe that was why she needed that confirmation that she faced no potential liability. I can't blame her for wanting that confirmation.


ETA: Here is the document which includes a copy of the letter Bremer sent Phaedra in May 2016: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...s-1-3).pdf

Lovejunky said:

[Edited 7/31/17 9:31am]

That's the question. Because that letter drafted by Laura E. Halferty is saying the NPG Music and Touring, LLC are separate from the estate and that S&S Design needs to file their claim with them and not the estate.

[Edited 7/31/17 13:12pm]

My comment was not addressing anything about S & S. The letter speaks for itself really, but Bremer was in charge.

morningsong said:

Mumio said:

Lovejunky, I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong, hopefully ISLIJAG comes along and corrects if needed, but I don't believe that Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins stepped aside of her own volition. Prince's death is what dictated that move because the estate became responsible for NPG Music and the estate (Bremer) notified her that her position was terminated as a result. I believe she indicated she never received that initial letter from Bremer and there may have been actions she took in the role she still thought she was in that caused her concern. I believe that was why she needed that confirmation that she faced no potential liability. I can't blame her for wanting that confirmation.


ETA: Here is the document which includes a copy of the letter Bremer sent Phaedra in May 2016: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...s-1-3).pdf

[Edited 7/31/17 13:12pm]

[Edited 7/31/17 14:59pm]

Mumio said:

My comment was not addressing anything about S & S. The letter speaks for itself really, but Bremer was in charge.

morningsong said:

[Edited 7/31/17 14:59pm]

Why would Bremers (and now Comerica) reject an invoice based on it being for NPG Music, if everything is under the Estate?

morningsong said:

Mumio said:

My comment was not addressing anything about S & S. The letter speaks for itself really, but Bremer was in charge.

[Edited 7/31/17 14:59pm]

Why would Bremers (and now Comerica) reject an invoice based on it being for NPG Music, if everything is under the Estate?

Because I do think everything is under the estate.

udo said:

Lovejunky said:

Scroll to page 32 and the First Part of your question may be answered in part....

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...randum.pdf

.

Thanks, that helps for a bit!

Notice that Prince signed as a member/manager. Notice this transfer was forever and only his contract as writer was renewable for after 5 years.

laurarichardson said:

udo said:

.

Thanks, that helps for a bit!

Notice that Prince signed as a member/manager. Notice this transfer was forever and only his contract as writer was renewable for after 5 years.

Keep in mind this document was submitted by Rodney Dixon to the Probate Court.

We have no idea whether it is a true and accurate copy of the LLC because the document was not certified.

The only document Rodney submitted as certified was the document from the Copyright Office of the United States.

morningsong said:

Mumio said:

My comment was not addressing anything about S & S. The letter speaks for itself really, but Bremer was in charge.

[Edited 7/31/17 14:59pm]

Why would Bremers (and now Comerica) reject an invoice based on it being for NPG Music, if everything is under the Estate?

Because S&S filed a claim under the Probate Case and they should have sent the demand for payment to NPG Music.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

Notice that Prince signed as a member/manager. Notice this transfer was forever and only his contract as writer was renewable for after 5 years.

Keep in mind this document was submitted by Rodney Dixon to the Probate Court.

We have no idea whether it is a true and accurate copy of the LLC because the document was not certified.

The only document Rodney submitted as certified was the document from the Copyright Office of the United States.

I though Rodney got this via discovery since his brother was his attorney. If that is the case it would be valid.

[Edited 7/31/17 17:12pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

morningsong said:

Why would Bremers (and now Comerica) reject an invoice based on it being for NPG Music, if everything is under the Estate?

Because S&S filed a claim under the Probate Case and they should have sent the demand for payment to NPG Music.

Not sure what difference it makes. If the entire estate is under the probate, unless NPG Music isn't running under the Estate.

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Keep in mind this document was submitted by Rodney Dixon to the Probate Court.

We have no idea whether it is a true and accurate copy of the LLC because the document was not certified.

The only document Rodney submitted as certified was the document from the Copyright Office of the United States.

I though Rodney got this via discovery since his brother was his attorney. If that is the case it would be valid.

Remind me where it is stated this copy of the LLC came from Bremer/Comerica since there have been so many documents filed in the Probate case.

morningsong said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Because S&S filed a claim under the Probate Case and they should have sent the demand for payment to NPG Music.

Not sure what difference it makes. If the entire estate is under the probate, unless NPG Music isn't running under the Estate.

This was discussed previously.

Not all assets go through the Probate case.

NPG is an LLC which is not processed through probate.

S&S should not have filed a claim under the Probate case number.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

morningsong said:

Not sure what difference it makes. If the entire estate is under the probate, unless NPG Music isn't running under the Estate.

This was discussed previously.

Not all assets go through the Probate case.

NPG is an LLC which is not processed through probate.

S&S should not have filed a claim under the Probate case number.

But Comerica (used to be Bremer's) is running the LLC?

morningsong said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This was discussed previously.

Not all assets go through the Probate case.

NPG is an LLC which is not processed through probate.

S&S should not have filed a claim under the Probate case number.

But Comerica (used to be Bremer's) is running the LLC?

I know it is confusing.

S&S didnt follow the rules.

If you are owed $50k it would be wise to hire an attorney to make sure it is done right.

So S&S is saying NPG owes them money but they filed personally against Prince.

Prince didnt owe the money to S&S, it is owed by NPG LLC.

Just as an aside, S&S does not have a signed contract either.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

morningsong said:

But Comerica (used to be Bremer's) is running the LLC?

I know it is confusing.

S&S didnt follow the rules.

If you are owed $50k it would be wise to hire an attorney to make sure it is done right.

So S&S is saying NPG owes them money but they filed personally against Prince.

Prince didnt owe the money to S&S, it is owed by NPG LLC.

Just as an aside, S&S does not have a signed contract either.

Yeah, I caught that. That's about the only thing.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

morningsong said:

Not sure what difference it makes. If the entire estate is under the probate, unless NPG Music isn't running under the Estate.

This was discussed previously.

Not all assets go through the Probate case.

NPG is an LLC which is not processed through probate.

S&S should not have filed a claim under the Probate case number.

Actually what was discussed many months ago was that the LLC was a part of the estate. Now we are seeing that it is not and I believe Comerica is running the LLC per the family because someone with business acumen has to run it. I think this LLC was set up by Prince so it would not be a part of Probate if something were to happen to him.

Don't know if the expectation was that this would be nessarcy anytime soon but it is looking more and more like a plan was in place. Why would a guy who was a known control freak transfer a chuck of his publishing to an LLC and possiblity want the monies to go to a charity?

As far as S&S is concerned it sound like a scam or that they were only in the disucssion stage of doing this work

and preceded without a contract.

[Edited 7/31/17 19:49pm]

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This was discussed previously.

Not all assets go through the Probate case.

NPG is an LLC which is not processed through probate.

S&S should not have filed a claim under the Probate case number.

Actually what was discussed many months ago was that the LLC was a part of the estate. Now we are seeing that it is not and I believe Comerica is running the LLC per the family because someone with business acumen has to run it. I think this LLC was set up by Prince so it would not be a part of Probate if something were to happen to him.

Don't know if the expectation was that this would be nessarcy anytime soon but it is looking more and more like a plan was in place. Why would a guy who was a known control freak transfer a chuck of his publishing to an LLC and possiblity want the monies to go to a charity?

As far as S&S is concerned it sound like a scam or that they were only in the disucssion stage of doing this work

and preceded without a contract.

[Edited 7/31/17 19:49pm]

The LLC is part of the Estate but not part of the Probate case.

There is nothing to indicate there are silent members in his LLC.

Silent members are usually those who provide capital to an LLC but does not want to be a part of the business dealings and management of the business on a day to day basis.

If charities were a silent members to Ps LLC they would be involved in the business dealings of NPG Music.

LLCs are to protect your personal liability. and for tax purposes.

The Court documents show P had numerous LLCs but most are inactive or dissolved.

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This was discussed previously.

Not all assets go through the Probate case.

NPG is an LLC which is not processed through probate.

S&S should not have filed a claim under the Probate case number.

Actually what was discussed many months ago was that the LLC was a part of the estate. Now we are seeing that it is not and I believe Comerica is running the LLC per the family because someone with business acumen has to run it. I think this LLC was set up by Prince so it would not be a part of Probate if something were to happen to him.

Don't know if the expectation was that this would be nessarcy anytime soon but it is looking more and more like a plan was in place. Why would a guy who was a known control freak transfer a chuck of his publishing to an LLC and possiblity want the monies to go to a charity?

As far as S&S is concerned it sound like a scam or that they were only in the disucssion stage of doing this work

and preceded without a contract.

[Edited 7/31/17 19:49pm]

The LLC is part of the Estate but not part of the Probate case.

There is nothing to indicate there are silent members in his LLC.

Silent members are usually those who provide capital to an LLC but does not want to be a part of the business dealings and management of the business on a day to day basis.

If charities were a silent members to Ps LLC they would be involved in the business dealings of NPG Music.

LLCs are to protect your personal liability. and for tax purposes.

The Court documents show P had numerous LLCs but most are inactive or dissolved.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

So he appears to have structured things to not go to the leeches in his life but to the people he thought would benefit most from his life's work. Did he have actual knowledge or just intuition that he would be leaving this world sooner rather than later?

BUT, even if NPG doesn't go through probate, it appears it's STILL part of his estate and, at the end of the day, it will be divided among his heirs rather than existing to pump out income for the causes he championed in his lifetime. If an LLC functions as a tax shelter and shield for personal liability, that has nothing to do with on-going or even one-time dispursments to charities or individuals (outside his family) he may have wished to provide for. The picture coming into focus as I see it, is that with no will, his court mandated heirs get everythig and the charities and people Prince may have wanted to share his wealth with will be gifted only out of the kindness of the hearts of the Nelson Family members.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

BUT, even if NPG doesn't go through probate, it appears it's STILL part of his estate and, at the end of the day, it will be divided among his heirs rather than existing to pump out income for the causes he championed in his lifetime. If an LLC functions as a tax shelter and shield for personal liability, that has nothing to do with on-going or even one-time dispursments to charities or individuals (outside his family) he may have wished to provide for. The picture coming into focus as I see it, is that with no will, his court mandated heirs get everythig and the charities and people Prince may have wanted to share his wealth with will be gifted only out of the kindness of the hearts of the Nelson Family members.

--It depends on how it was structured. Also realized that if he had a will in the end who ever he left anything to is free to do as they please once they inheirit. The only thing that would have allowed money to continue to go charity would have been a trust and we have watched that get stopped in the James Brown or Ray Charles estates. There charitable trust have not be able to donate money due to family members tying things up in the courts. I believe no matter what Prince's plans or wishes none of it is going to happen will or no will. We can all be happy he was able to do a lot for people and charities when he was alive and well. Because we have already seen greedy lawyers and family members try to go agaisnt his wishes with contracts that one has been proven to be legally binding.

I agree, LR, let this saga be a lesson to us all: 'It is better to receive gifts from a warm hand than a cold one.' It would be ironic if, at the end, Prince's truest memorial were to exist in the fulfillment of the talk in Minnie that some of the estate tax windfall will be earmarked for music education. Hold that thought.

if Prince wanted to guarantee his money went to charity (or any other specific purposes) he could have worked with qualified lawyers to set up a solid plan to make that happen. I don't personally buy the idea that setting up a clear estate plan is pointless because his relatives would just ignore it. The law is the law and his relatives have never given me the impression that they have access to such legal wizardry that they could find a way to negate a well-formulated estate plan crafted by qualified lawyers (key words: well-formalated, and qualified)

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: --It depends on how it was structured. Also realized that if he had a will in the end who ever he left anything to is free to do as they please once they inheirit. The only thing that would have allowed money to continue to go charity would have been a trust and we have watched that get stopped in the James Brown or Ray Charles estates. There charitable trust have not be able to donate money due to family members tying things up in the courts. I believe no matter what Prince's plans or wishes none of it is going to happen will or no will. We can all be happy he was able to do a lot for people and charities when he was alive and well. Because we have already seen greedy lawyers and family members try to go agaisnt his wishes with contracts that one has been proven to be legally binding.

I agree, LR, let this saga be a lesson to us all: 'It is better to receive gifts from a warm hand than a cold one.' It would be ironic if, at the end, Prince's truest memorial were to exist in the fulfillment of the talk in Minnie that some of the estate tax windfall will be earmarked for music education. Hold that thought.

disch said:

if Prince wanted to guarantee his money went to charity (or any other specific purposes) he could have worked with qualified lawyers to set up a solid plan to make that happen. I don't personally buy the idea that setting up a clear estate plan is pointless because his relatives would just ignore it. The law is the law and his relatives have never given me the impression that they have access to such legal wizardry that they could find a way to negate a well-formulated estate plan crafted by qualified lawyers (key words: well-formalated, and qualified)

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I agree, LR, let this saga be a lesson to us all: 'It is better to receive gifts from a warm hand than a cold one.' It would be ironic if, at the end, Prince's truest memorial were to exist in the fulfillment of the talk in Minnie that some of the estate tax windfall will be earmarked for music education. Hold that thought.

You are so right, disch, but every time I tell MY truth, that Prince was a careless guy, careless with his heart and those of others, careless with his money and artistic legacy (where's the plan for the orderly, professional curation and release of the contents of the vault?), careless with the truth and, in the end, his health and life....my musings have a statistically improbable propensity for getting a thread locked or 'disappeaed' like the Mods are channeling members of the Argentine junta. But I digress. The 'need' here on the Org. to 'protect' Prince by banishing, shutting-off or stifiling free expression is counter-productive as I know other 'versions' of the Prince story are about to burst onto the culture at large and it's a disservice TO THE ORG. to shut up those who want to explore those avenues here because it allows 'not MY Prince' members to live in a La La Land of denial.Not a good look. Never works long haul. Is silly and immature. Bottom line: this great , much-loved musical savant died without a will, alone,weighing 112 lbs. of a drug overdose. That's what the history books will say.

Bodhi, I hear you and I agree with you. It is a mess that did not have to happen.