What do you think?

@ Ilissa Gold toxic masculinity been hearing that all year sorry for being a man.

FullLipsDotNose said:

In some way it is our fault. We asked him to be superman. To jump all over the place. I remember I was bitching about why he doesn't dance on stage. Yea, it is my fault. lol

Guitarhero said:

@ Ilissa Gold toxic masculinity been hearing that all year sorry for being a man.

But masculinity isn't toxic by default. Prince wasn't this macho Joe beating women's asses, speeding over limit, binge-drinking or eating schnitzels made from children's meat.

FullLipsDotNose said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

But masculinity isn't toxic by default. Prince wasn't this macho Joe beating women's asses, speeding over limit, binge-drinking or eating schnitzels made from children's meat.

Maybe he wasn't sitting back on the sofa...watching the Greenbay Packers demolish 'da BBearz eating fried jalapeño poppers and farting while wearing a wife-beater and yelling at Wendy to to bring her perky little ass in their and pass him a cold brewski....but I kinda remember 'The Kid' slapping the dog shit outta Apolonia in Purple Rain for exercising her free will. That being said...Princey definitely wasn't beyond reproach

But that was just a play and the protagonist realised his wrongdoings in the end.

FullLipsDotNose said:

Check the rest of that person's twitter rants.

I don't think the comment is worth analysing. The poster doesn't seem deep enough to bother and seems to be just another angry flailing person with too much opinion and too little grey matter.

It's a bait argument; Tries to claim that the purpose of the post is the positive role model of those who died, role models due to their gender-bending ways, but really it's rah rah toxic masculinity rah rah.

[Edited 12/26/16 17:07pm]

The concept of "Toxic Masculinity" is yet another example of Feminism gone wild in the academy.

RJOrion said:

What load of crap. Toxic masculinity "reigned" in 2016? But not in 2015, or 1915?? What exactly is that anyway? And these men she named showed there is no one right way to be a man - wth does that even mean?!? Is she saying they were toxic too, or they were being men the right way?? Sounds like a nut job to me. Statements like that are what gives feminism a bad name. She tries to come off smart, but is merely confusing and contradictory.

if it weren't for toxic masculinity this species might not exist. Technology has made it easy for women to talk shit but throughout the millions of years of our evolution there certainly was a place for aggression. And Prince was far from innocent in regards to chauvinism. He might have looked as fem and gay as anyone but underneath that act was plenty of macho ego. Anyone paying attention could see it in everything he did and those of us who did read about him knew about it from the git go.

No one way to be a a man?

What is a man?

What is her way for someone to be a man?

udo said:

No one way to be a a man?

What is a man?

What is her way for someone to be a man?

if she's a feminist then the only way to be a man is to demand absolute respect, control, to be a macho pig. Truth is white women are so goddamned coddled it's ridiculous. Feminism has got us so fucked up they got boys who are encouraged to not stand up for themselves, to not show aggression. I do believe part of the trump thing is a backlash against them.

I can't believe I'm among Prince's fans

"Pussy said 'Nigga, you crazy if you don't know / Every woman in the world ain't a freak / You can go platinum four times / Still couldn't make what I make in a week / So push up on somebody want to hear that / Cuz this somebody here don't want to know / Boy, you better act like you understand / When you roll with Pussy Control' (Are you ready?)"

"Girl with a guitar is twelve times better than another crazy band of boys / Trying to be a star / When you're just another brick in a misogynistic wall of noise"

The motherfucker was a hard-core feminist and ya need to fix your lives up!!

do a little more research an you'll see how he treated women (and men) unfairly. He was the boss and therefore he wanted things his way. He was not above physical abuse, mental games or any of the things you think. I'm not talking about his songs, his image, i'm talking about how he acted. And like many of us, black, native american and other minorities, we think white patriarchy is the way to go. that includes the beating of children too. we weren't always like that and we weren't always abusive to women either. In fact, at least with the Native populations, women pretty much ran things.

He was not a feminist, he respected and understood feminine power better than most men but you ask the women he worked with what they thought and you'd see. My opinion of why he mainly worked with women in many situations is because women aren't as egotistical and controlling as men, not because he just loved women so much, although i'm sure that was a part of it. So, i guess you could say he was a hypocrite in that regard, no different than most people in some area of their lives.

I read an interview with Mo Ostin of Warner Brothers last night, and he said they could tell that even in the teenage Prince was a seething anger that they knew would boil over at some point, and that point occurred during the early 90s and his crusade against WB. IMO his childhood formed him into someone who couldn't trust and who would act first rather than be abandoned, as his mother had essentially abandoned him. The revolving door of young females whom he "mentored" - two years and a record then on to the next one - and his continuing quest for his father's approval, even after his death, revealed to me at least someone who was socially and emotionally damaged.

[Edited 12/27/16 4:40am]

PeteSilas said:

do a little more research an you'll see how he treated women (and men) unfairly. He was the boss and therefore he wanted things his way. He was not above physical abuse, mental games or any of the things you think. I'm not talking about his songs, his image, i'm talking about how he acted. And like many of us, black, native american and other minorities, we think white patriarchy is the way to go. that includes the beating of children too. we weren't always like that and we weren't always abusive to women either. In fact, at least with the Native populations, women pretty much ran things.

He was not a feminist, he respected and understood feminine power better than most men but you ask the women he worked with what they thought and you'd see. My opinion of why he mainly worked with women in many situations is because women aren't as egotistical and controlling as men, not because he just loved women so much, although i'm sure that was a part of it. So, i guess you could say he was a hypocrite in that regard, no different than most people in some area of their lives.

Most of his female coworkers spoke about him respectfully. There were some issues with a few, like with Sinéad O'Connor, I know, but he changed a lot later on in life.

PeteSilas said:

do a little more research an you'll see how he treated women (and men) unfairly. He was the boss and therefore he wanted things his way. He was not above physical abuse, mental games or any of the things you think. I'm not talking about his songs, his image, i'm talking about how he acted. And like many of us, black, native american and other minorities, we think white patriarchy is the way to go. that includes the beating of children too. we weren't always like that and we weren't always abusive to women either. In fact, at least with the Native populations, women pretty much ran things.

He was not a feminist, he respected and understood feminine power better than most men but you ask the women he worked with what they thought and you'd see. My opinion of why he mainly worked with women in many situations is because women aren't as egotistical and controlling as men, not because he just loved women so much, although i'm sure that was a part of it. So, i guess you could say he was a hypocrite in that regard, no different than most people in some area of their lives.

The only woman who said he hit them was O'Conner's crazy ass and I do not believe her crazy ass.

Men who hit women do not do it once they keep on doing it. No stories about him beating chicks up.

Was he a feminist I think not. He was a womanizer who liked women I know why think he hated them but I believe a black man at this age grew up with some fucked up ideas about women having a place. He wanted to run around and he wanted his women to be good girls who set up on pedesal.

How is that being a feminist? After all Jill Jones said he was not Sammy Lunchment he was a brother.

there is the story of him breaking jill jones wrist/arm which she never did confirm. you can read about it on here, i saw it in one of the books. My point is not that he didn't love and adore women, i do believe he felt more comfortable around women and did have a lot in common with women but, he also had a lot of the stuff that we all get in this society. Not saying it's right but we get a lot of ideas. things are changing now, most men i know are pretty meek and submissive but there are sectors, the business sector particularly, which are still white male dominated.

1Sasha said:

I read an interview with Mo Ostin of Warners Brothers last night, and he said they could tell that even in the teenage Prince was a seething anger that they knew would boil over at some point, and that point occurred during the early 90s and his crusade against WB. IMO his childhood formed him into someone who couldn't trust and who would act first rather than be abandoned, as his mother had essentially abandoned him. The revolving door of young females whom he "mentored" - two years and a record then on to the next one - and his continuing quest for his father's approval, even after his death, revealed to me at least someone who was socially and emotionally damaged.

where did you find it? Mo knew Prince since he was a teenager? ya, he was really unfair to some of his proteges, I think Rosie Gaines was really screwed around, and then of course, there are the women who shouldn't have even been let near a mic like carmen electra. Many people have said, on panels and on here too things to the effect that "his pimp hand was strong". which may be made as a compliment but for those of us who think messing with peoples lives and minds is wrong, it's not. You know, the pimp tries to affect many feminine traits but that does not make him no feminist. Ice-T who's lived and studied the subject says it's all a mental game, to be "flyer" than the woman so that the woman is always doing the catering and seeing of approval, the financial providing and so forth. That mentality is just a fucked up and convoluted game.

The only way a woman could deal with someone like Prince - a boss who ruled with an iron fist - was to be economically independent. Even though Sheila E. was well-known and had a career before she joined him, almost every other woman in his life (except Madonna) depended upon him financially in some way. That allowed him to basically walk all over them while championing women in word and deed. You needed to NOT need him in order to interact with him. You needed to be able to walk away from him.

I did read, in one of the prince books that Prince/Madonna really didn't hit it off and that Prince was uncomfortable with her sexual aggression (and the gay dancers too). But i've also read they had a fling in the 80s and that Sean Penn punched a hole in the wall over it and prince came over and patched it up. who knows how true either of those is. Prince doesn't seem like the kind of man to have ever needed to learn any basics of any trade (drywall, carpentry,mechanical).

PeteSilas said:

there is the story of him breaking jill jones wrist/arm which she never did confirm. you can read about it on here, i saw it in one of the books. My point is not that he didn't love and adore women, i do believe he felt more comfortable around women and did have a lot in common with women but, he also had a lot of the stuff that we all get in this society. Not saying it's right but we get a lot of ideas. things are changing now, most men i know are pretty meek and submissive but there are sectors, the business sector particularly, which are still white male dominated.

Never confirmed by Jill and a few women have said that he made comments about women beaters that implied that he could not stand guys like that. I think he loved and adored women if they were submissive and at his beck and call. He wanted to be the boss which unforntuanly was very common in the time that he was being brought up in during the 60s and 70s.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

I read an interview with Mo Ostin of Warners Brothers last night, and he said they could tell that even in the teenage Prince was a seething anger that they knew would boil over at some point, and that point occurred during the early 90s and his crusade against WB. IMO his childhood formed him into someone who couldn't trust and who would act first rather than be abandoned, as his mother had essentially abandoned him. The revolving door of young females whom he "mentored" - two years and a record then on to the next one - and his continuing quest for his father's approval, even after his death, revealed to me at least someone who was socially and emotionally damaged.

where did you find it? Mo knew Prince since he was a teenager? ya, he was really unfair to some of his proteges, I think Rosie Gaines was really screwed around, and then of course, there are the women who shouldn't have even been let near a mic like carmen electra. Many people have said, on panels and on here too things to the effect that "his pimp hand was strong". which may be made as a compliment but for those of us who think messing with peoples lives and minds is wrong, it's not. You know, the pimp tries to affect many feminine traits but that does not make him no feminist. Ice-T who's lived and studied the subject says it's all a mental game, to be "flyer" than the woman so that the woman is always doing the catering and seeing of approval, the financial providing and so forth. That mentality is just a fucked up and convoluted game.

It was something which came through a FB Prince group. I believe it was in a British GQ magazine interview. I am sorry I don't recall the specific site. Michael Pagnotta, who was Prince's publicist and then took on George Michael, said on yahoo.com that Prince as well as George - at their level of fame and ability - were real tough cases to handle because they knew what they wanted when they wanted it, with no exceptions. And they had the talent to deliver the goods.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

I read an interview with Mo Ostin of Warners Brothers last night, and he said they could tell that even in the teenage Prince was a seething anger that they knew would boil over at some point, and that point occurred during the early 90s and his crusade against WB. IMO his childhood formed him into someone who couldn't trust and who would act first rather than be abandoned, as his mother had essentially abandoned him. The revolving door of young females whom he "mentored" - two years and a record then on to the next one - and his continuing quest for his father's approval, even after his death, revealed to me at least someone who was socially and emotionally damaged.

where did you find it? Mo knew Prince since he was a teenager? ya, he was really unfair to some of his proteges, I think Rosie Gaines was really screwed around, and then of course, there are the women who shouldn't have even been let near a mic like carmen electra. Many people have said, on panels and on here too things to the effect that "his pimp hand was strong". which may be made as a compliment but for those of us who think messing with peoples lives and minds is wrong, it's not. You know, the pimp tries to affect many feminine traits but that does not make him no feminist. Ice-T who's lived and studied the subject says it's all a mental game, to be "flyer" than the woman so that the woman is always doing the catering and seeing of approval, the financial providing and so forth. That mentality is just a fucked up and convoluted game.

Mo's comments were made shortly after Prince died might have been in the Rolling Stone and he would have met Prince when he 19. Plenty of people have said he was angry teen and even Prince said a lot of his early music came from a place of anger and music is what keep him going when he was teen. I think he had a tough time growing up and we may find out more as time goes on.

I don't know how to provide links, but it is a Nik Cohn article in British GQ - just go to Google, type in "Nik Cohn Prince" and it comes up from earlier this year. The Ostin quote is in it.

RJOrion said:

WTF is "toxic masculinity"??

Said by toxic feminists who hate a certain gender and race. (White Cis males) You know like MTV said 2017 New Years Resolutions for White Guys I don't mind them calling out the bad people but it seems it's the whole of one gender and race they are talking about.