PeteSilas said:

Mkilpatrick74 said:

If Prince didn't carry a cell phone and never made his own phone calls someone will go down for this. I am a pain mgt patient as well in Florida and here we have to submit to random drug testing etc. I have a feeling his doctors were not following the letter of the law because of who he was and because of that he is gone.

purplethunder3121 said:

nursev said:

I hate to say this but Ive always thought that Prince died soon after he was dropped off They dropped him off like what 8, 9pm and he is found in the same clothes the next morning. He was at home so why would he not change clothes and be comfortable...Im starting to think that 6 hours is really more like 13 hours. Shit is heartbreaking.

That's what is still so "gray" about the timeline. Will Smith claims he spoke with Prince the evening of the 20th. If true, it would be interesting what time they spoke.

Also according to the StarTribune:

"Sources have said that shortly before Prince’s death, members of the artist’s inner circle became so concerned about his health that they reached out to Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins, a well-known environmental and labor activist in the San Francisco Bay Area credited with helping Prince recover the rights to his early songs from Warner Bros. She has declined to comment, citing Prince’s concern for his privacy.

The night of April 20, less than 12 hours before Prince’s body was found, Ellis-Lamkins called Dr. Howard Kornfeld, a pain and addiction specialist in Mill Valley, Calif., seeking his help to get the musician off prescription painkillers, sources said."

So, CA is two hours behind MN time ... His body was found about 9:40 am on the 21st ... 12 hours before would mean she contacted Dr. Kornfeld about 9:40 pm (MN time)/7:40 pm (CA) on the 20th??

The unknown of course is what time did Prince's inner circle contact her before she contacted Dr. Kornfeld???

[Edited 6/3/16 19:04pm]

[Edited 6/3/16 19:06pm]

purplethunder3121 said:

Fuck the report, FUCK how Prince died, and FUCK all of this obsession over how he passed. Who cares?!!!! What about his LIFE and how he LIVED it?!!! What about his MUSIC--his LIVING LEGACY? If this forum is going keep going then it has to focus on the legacy he left to those who care--his music. Let's PLEASE not turn this forum into a repeat of the MJ sites.

Here's the thing (and if somebody's already said this, I'm sorry for repeating--there's still several more pages of comments ahead of me and I don't know what people will say in them)--this isn't just about how he died. Depending on what he was doing, and for how long, and why it very well could be exactly about how he lived his life. Even if it was all just in response to physical pain, according to some talk it's 10, 15, 20 years of performances and creation that relied, in part, on his use of opioids to get him through. Maybe more, if, God forbid, the supposed drug dealer's telling the truth. What if Duane was, and he'd been doing tons of coke to keep himself going earlier?

Part of Prince's legacy is the story that was told about how he did all the work he did--and it was supposed to be clean, powered by the love of music and God (no matter how many of us didn't share his faith). Sorry, but that was the narrative, and part of that narrative was also that he was honest--not open, but honest. This new story we're trying to deal with affects all of that, it shows a secretive, furtive, scared, not in control Prince that isn't really the same one we knew (any of the ones we thought we knew--he had sides, but we didn't think this was one of them)--it changes the narrative, and that makes a difference in his legacy. Yes, lots of artists have done a lot of drugs--but that was part of their legend, and their legacy. This isn't part of Prince's legend as we understood him, and it does change things, even for those who do love the music--it changes the experience of the music, it changes meanings.

Is he still the greatest performer and musical creator of my lifetime--yes, I think so. But I want to understand what happened, and to understand, as much as I can, the artist that I've loved for most of my life, who has been the only consistent part of my life for that whole time (my family and friends from back then are dead or have drifted away). This death, and what led to it, is only part of doing that--but it is part of it.

[Edited 6/3/16 19:36pm]

I don't know if these questions has been brought up (sorry in advance ), does this mean they won't release the full autopsy report etc like they did for MJ, Whitney? I just heard that they were going to release the full report today, but I haven't seen any updates. What about hyperthetically should there be crimminal charges against the GP etc. In a nutshell what happens now?

EddieC said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Fuck the report, FUCK how Prince died, and FUCK all of this obsession over how he passed. Who cares?!!!! What about his LIFE and how he LIVED it?!!! What about his MUSIC--his LIVING LEGACY? If this forum is going keep going then it has to focus on the legacy he left to those who care--his music. Let's PLEASE not turn this forum into a repeat of the MJ sites.

Here's the thing (and if somebody's already said this, I'm sorry for repeating--there's still several more pages of comments ahead of me and I don't know what people will say in them)--this isn't just about how he died. Depending on what he was doing, and for how long, and why it very well could be exactly about how he lived his life. Even if it was all just in response to physical pain, according to some talk it's 10, 15, 20 years of performances and creation that relied, in part, on his use of opioids to get him through. Maybe more, if, God forbid, the supposed drug dealer's telling the truth. What if Duane was, and he'd been doing tons of coke to keep himself going earlier?

Part of Prince's legacy is the story that was told about how he did all the work he did--and it was supposed to be clean, powered by the love of music and God (no matter how many of us didn't share his faith). Sorry, but that was the narrative, and part of that narrative was also that he was honest--not open, but honest. This new story we're trying to deal with affects all of that, it shows a secretive, furtive, scared, not in control Prince that isn't really the same one we knew (any of the ones we thought we knew--he had sides, but we didn't think this was one of them)--it changes the narrative, and that makes a difference in his legacy. Yes, lots of artists have done a lot of drugs--but that was part of their legend, and their legacy. This isn't part of Prince's legend as we understood him, and it does change things, even for those who do love the music--it changes the experience of the music, it changes meanings.

Is he still the greatest performer and musical creator of my lifetime--yes, I think so. But I want to understand what happened, and to understand, as much as I can, the artist that I've loved for most of my life, who has been the only consistent part of my life for that whole time (my family and friends from back then are dead or have drifted away). This death, and what led to it, is only part of doing that--but it is part of it.

[Edited 6/3/16 19:36pm]

Love your post Eddie. Reconciling the conflicting sides requires wisdom and compassion, which you have in beaucoup plenty.

benni said:

I woke up with a thought this morning that it is possible the Fentanyl was a recent event, something he just started using recently (within the last year). If we look at how he suddenly seemed to age, appeared more gaunt in recent times, it could be a result of starting the use of fentanyl. If he had been using percocets for years to manage his pain, he seemed comfortable with it, so much so that he was able to continue touring, making albums, and working as hard as he always had. If the fentanyl was a recent development, maybe because the percocets were no longer working for him, he would not have been as used to them. It could be that he saw the way they were effecting him and wanted to stop them (thus the flu like symptoms) not realizing that he had already developed a dependence upon them.

If he wasn't used to them, he wouldn't be used to how much he could take and could have inadvertently taken more than he should have if he was in extreme pain, thinking it was safe (thus the first episode on the plane ride home) and that episode scared him enough that he wanted to seek out help to get off them. The fact that a few days passed from that first incident to the second one, could be the time frame in which they were doing research, trying to find the best way to stop the medication, the company/medical facility that would work best with Prince and his needs. They would have wanted to find a way that would be the most gentle on him, to prevent the withdrawal symptoms (or at least to lessen those symptoms).

This sounds like a logical scenario - not to mention less disturbing than some of the others.

SLC said:

benni said:

I woke up with a thought this morning that it is possible the Fentanyl was a recent event, something he just started using recently (within the last year). If we look at how he suddenly seemed to age, appeared more gaunt in recent times, it could be a result of starting the use of fentanyl. If he had been using percocets for years to manage his pain, he seemed comfortable with it, so much so that he was able to continue touring, making albums, and working as hard as he always had. If the fentanyl was a recent development, maybe because the percocets were no longer working for him, he would not have been as used to them. It could be that he saw the way they were effecting him and wanted to stop them (thus the flu like symptoms) not realizing that he had already developed a dependence upon them.

If he wasn't used to them, he wouldn't be used to how much he could take and could have inadvertently taken more than he should have if he was in extreme pain, thinking it was safe (thus the first episode on the plane ride home) and that episode scared him enough that he wanted to seek out help to get off them. The fact that a few days passed from that first incident to the second one, could be the time frame in which they were doing research, trying to find the best way to stop the medication, the company/medical facility that would work best with Prince and his needs. They would have wanted to find a way that would be the most gentle on him, to prevent the withdrawal symptoms (or at least to lessen those symptoms).

This sounds like a logical scenario - not to mention less disturbing than some of the others.

I agree--this is along the lines of what I was thinking. I saw Prince perform in 2014 at a small club and I was only a few feet away and the difference of his weight, physical appearance, and energy between then and 2016 was like night and day. Thank you, Benni, for weighing in with your opinion and sharing your experience as someone who deals with chronic pain on a daily basis. Your thoughts are comforting at this difficult time.

purplethunder3121 said:

Genesia said:

spastic78 said: Thanks for this.

+1

+2

jonnylawson said:

Okay we have the results now Tragic - I admismiter and work with fentsnyl a lot , I can understand his this happened Why not lock this thread now ? I can't believe people are discussing his autopsy and " oh where did the scar come from " Have some respect It's probably because I work in the aeromedical and ICU Setting I find ths incredibly disrespectful RIP prince - you would have fucking despised all this gossip and lack of respect

Thank you for this information. I replied much sooner but it never showed up in this thread, maybe it came right to you? Anyhow, yes, He would be humiliated and embarrassed by the private information and discussions already taking place and being thrown around as fodder for other's interpretation. I have experienced this first hand, with my own Brother's highly- spotlighted life and death, in the public eye. However, this is about Prince and I will honor his talent and accomplishments and be grateful for his long and wonderful musical legacy.

purplethunder3121 said:

spastic78 said:

bondno9 said:

The unknown of course is what time did Prince's inner circle contact her before she contacted Dr. Kornfeld???

I've only seen one article mentioning that info, it said they contacted her around 6am on Wed the 20th.... iirc from unknown source.

We just lost another legend. RIP Muhammand Ali

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/qFtZOin.jpg[/img:$uid]

spastic78 said:

I would also like to add that I live near Paisley Park and it has been near impossible finding proper pain management care despite being a patient at The Mayo. Compared to pain management doctors in CA, MA, TX and/or FL the approaches/strategies used here are from the dark ages. And recently a study showed that doctors here tend to disbelieve the level of pain a Black-American patient lives with so I can totally understand why outside doctors needed to be called in...unfortunately not soon enough.

Both Hazelden and Mayo support and promote abstinence-only as primary treatment for pretty much everything, and oppose harm reduction methods in many areas.

Perhaps some folks within those facilities are more science-based or innovative in the addiction arena, but most op-eds, articles, lobbying from them, has seemed to be same old same old.

Scarfo said:

We just lost another legend. RIP Muhammand Ali

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/qFtZOin.jpg[/img:$uid]

Very sweet photo. Rest in power to Ali and Prince, of course. I feared as much when I saw "Prince and Ali" trending on Twitter just now.

Scarfo said:

We just lost another legend. RIP Muhammand Ali

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/qFtZOin.jpg[/img:$uid]

CROWNS1 said:

PeteSilas said:

CROWNS1 said:

CROWNS1 said:

Goddess4Real said:

Goddess4Real said:

SheLovesMeNot said:

PeteSilas said:

look , conrad murray went to jail for the mj thing, dr. nichopolous lost his license after Elvis, if someone was giving Prince anything, they should pay,it's not crazy it's the way things are.

The crazy talk I'm referring to is the need for his fans to believe his death was more then a drug overdose. It it what it is. Prince killed himself with an overdose of drugs that were not prescribed to him.

How do you know they were not prescribed ?? Fentanyl patches come in a box... So, yes it's easy to use more than you should. I sometimes wonder if doctors actually inform their patients well enough about these kinds of painkillers. Our family doctor prescribed Fentanyl patches for my mum, who has a severe pain in her leg. He never told her how dangerous this substance can be, just that it was a 'strong' painkiller. (Thank God, I had heard of Fentanyl and told her never to mess with the dose !) But when you're in a lot of pain, you're just grateful for anything that lessens that pain. And if the doctor prescribed it, it should be fine, right ?...

Starlit said:

Starlit said:

Our family doctor prescribed Fentanyl patches for my mum, who has a severe pain in her leg. He never told her how dangerous this substance can be, just that it was a 'strong' painkiller. (Thank God, I had heard of Fentanyl and told her never to mess with the dose !)

You're a good child. And absolutely the doctor should have provided clearer warnings and made sure she understood.

EddieC said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Fuck the report, FUCK how Prince died, and FUCK all of this obsession over how he passed. Who cares?!!!! What about his LIFE and how he LIVED it?!!! What about his MUSIC--his LIVING LEGACY? If this forum is going keep going then it has to focus on the legacy he left to those who care--his music. Let's PLEASE not turn this forum into a repeat of the MJ sites.

Here's the thing (and if somebody's already said this, I'm sorry for repeating--there's still several more pages of comments ahead of me and I don't know what people will say in them)--this isn't just about how he died. Depending on what he was doing, and for how long, and why it very well could be exactly about how he lived his life. Even if it was all just in response to physical pain, according to some talk it's 10, 15, 20 years of performances and creation that relied, in part, on his use of opioids to get him through. Maybe more, if, God forbid, the supposed drug dealer's telling the truth. What if Duane was, and he'd been doing tons of coke to keep himself going earlier?

Part of Prince's legacy is the story that was told about how he did all the work he did--and it was supposed to be clean, powered by the love of music and God (no matter how many of us didn't share his faith). Sorry, but that was the narrative, and part of that narrative was also that he was honest--not open, but honest. This new story we're trying to deal with affects all of that, it shows a secretive, furtive, scared, not in control Prince that isn't really the same one we knew (any of the ones we thought we knew--he had sides, but we didn't think this was one of them)--it changes the narrative, and that makes a difference in his legacy. Yes, lots of artists have done a lot of drugs--but that was part of their legend, and their legacy. This isn't part of Prince's legend as we understood him, and it does change things, even for those who do love the music--it changes the experience of the music, it changes meanings.

Is he still the greatest performer and musical creator of my lifetime--yes, I think so. But I want to understand what happened, and to understand, as much as I can, the artist that I've loved for most of my life, who has been the only consistent part of my life for that whole time (my family and friends from back then are dead or have drifted away). This death, and what led to it, is only part of doing that--but it is part of it.

[Edited 6/3/16 19:36pm]

This is a good insight.

Anyone who controls things as much as he did is, underneath is frightened of something. You can feel this in his lyrics. He often felt wounded by the women in his life, and yet how much did he contribute to the relationships' ruptures with his lack of fidelity, or tendency to isolate himself, or preferring a tour to a home life? But he made his own choices, and they were probably what he felt he needed, i.e. the best decisions he could make.

It is not a marring of all he did, who he was, and the marvelous music he gave us to party to, and think about. Especially the lyrics in the later years were very inspiring and reflected the growth of his perspective. He was so generous a performer and creator that he lived in virtual isolation -- because even those closest to him said he was "very private."

His use of painkillers, even that he may have battled dependence, do not make him "less than." He was brilliant, driven and generous with himself in many ways.

One reason for my opinion is that I've been close friends with a couple of people who were real geniuses, like probably IQ's in the top .01% or something. And I think both were very lonely, and quite frightened of losing control. Both feared death much more than I or other ordinary mortals. Neither one was capable of a long-term relationship, although they enjoyed the loyalty of those they nurtured along.

None of these news reports give me any reason to think he a) had HIV/AIDS, b) used cocaine or other illegal drugs for years. It's best not to judge anyone who tries to alleviate pain. I suspect it was both physical and emotional arising from childhood issues and adult disappointments, which we all face to one degree or another.

Rest in peace.

[Edited 6/4/16 5:36am]