Aerogram said:

Pentacle said:

1. He's signed a contract.

2. He's signed a contract which I'm sure does not include 'you can give us censored versions'.

3. He's signed a contract. Remasters do not automatically mean bonus tracks, but this was also mentioned in the press release.

Signed, sealed, and not yet delivered.

He has signed a contract with WB, not with his fans. Even if it's unlikely it authorized him to censor, I would not put it past him to decide that if those are his masters, then he can withold until he gets his wish. Withholding may be perfectly ok under the contract, we don't know.

Have you seen the contract that was signed? WB really had to acquiesse on the Masters as the copyright laws were changing and he was on the right side of that legislature..They dont want a protracted legal fight with him that opens the pandora's box via discovery of their business practices

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

funksterr said: Thank you for clarifying it is what you think, not what you know. As for me, I'm going by his association with the religion, including writing some hymns. Whether he fully joined is a different matter.

???????????? How the hell can one be a member of something without joining it? Prince, at best, was close to a couple of JW members. AT BEST. Yet he tells reporters he is a member, when it suits his needs. He apparently said something similar to Warners and probably LiveNation as well if you go by the 'changed man' wording of some of the statements that came out last year. Prince's choice in fashion and tumultuous dealings with women, do not fit well into the practice of the Jehovah's Witness faith. Even if he was a member, he'd likely be thrown out for non-compliance.

Again, if that's what you suppose, then so be it. However you cannot keep stating your opinions as fact.

On topic, I'm still waiting for somebody to post an article or some official word from Prince where he made any promises regarding the PR anniversary because I saw only one vague announcement from WB.

While we're at it maybe somebody can post the text of the contract too....apparently everybody here has read it except me.

lwr001 said:

Have you seen the contract that was signed? WB really had to acquiesse on the Masters as the copyright laws were changing and he was on the right side of that legislature..They dont want a protracted legal fight with him that opens the pandora's box via discovery of their business practices

.

This is such BS. WBR knew they had little to fear from him because Prince only whines, he never takes shit to court. There was never going to be a legal battle, dude already proved that by his behavior in 1993-1996.

.

I'm 100% sure their contract with him is real tight, because mere months after signing it he was already bitching to reporters at Paisley Park about it.

.

Anyone who think WBR was holding a bad hand when they went into negotiations with Prince regarding ownership of his masters is NUTS. Pray tell: how many suits have you seen about ownership of master recordings? How many artists have been complaining? Anyone who thinks "the whole world was waiting for the outcome of Prince's battle with WBR" is wildly off the mark.

.

I'm 100% sure that WBR hoped to get remasters and deluxe editions out of this deal, but also ensured the contract would contain clauses that benefitted them if Prince decided to change his mind about that.

lwr001 said:

Aerogram said:

Pentacle said: He has signed a contract with WB, not with his fans. Even if it's unlikely it authorized him to censor, I would not put it past him to decide that if those are his masters, then he can withold until he gets his wish. Withholding may be perfectly ok under the contract, we don't know.

Have you seen the contract that was signed? WB really had to acquiesse on the Masters as the copyright laws were changing and he was on the right side of that legislature..They dont want a protracted legal fight with him that opens the pandora's box via discovery of their business practices

You mean the industry's standard practices?

I don't need to see the contract or have any official word from Prince, we all read the official WB announcement.

And if they had sent out a press release consisting of lies, I'm sure Prince would have said something. ("Remasters? Unreleased bonus tracks? I only agreed to a Hit & Run tour, where I would play 2-3 songs from my recent masterpieces PE and AOA. Really, people, I'm not a two-faced piece of shit." )

[Edited 4/22/15 7:28am]

SchlomoThaHomo said:

I can't wait to hear Electric Outercourse and H-Spot.

be my BF

Pentacle said:

lwr001 said:

Have you seen the contract that was signed? WB really had to acquiesse on the Masters as the copyright laws were changing and he was on the right side of that legislature..They dont want a protracted legal fight with him that opens the pandora's box via discovery of their business practices

You mean the industry's standard practices?

I don't need to see the contract or have any official word from Prince, we all read the official WB announcement.

And if they had sent out a press release consisting of lies, I'm sure Prince would have said something. ("Remasters? Unreleased bonus tracks? I only agreed to a Hit & Run tour, where I would play 2-3 songs from my recent masterpieces PE and AOA. Really, people, I'm not a two-faced piece of shit." )

[Edited 4/22/15 7:28am]

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2014/04/princes-warner-brothers-deal-a-result-of-us-law-supporting-master-recording-copyright-termination.html

to my point, Prince would be on the right side of the law; its in his favor Bart!

[Edited 4/22/15 7:44am]

would someone please give me a funkenberry 101? i don't know if he posted here when i did; i know it was a different name. and please bring it current and please tell me if there is writ large beef between funkenberry and the ORG. tyvm

lwr001 said:

Pentacle said:

You mean the industry's standard practices?

I don't need to see the contract or have any official word from Prince, we all read the official WB announcement.

And if they had sent out a press release consisting of lies, I'm sure Prince would have said something. ("Remasters? Unreleased bonus tracks? I only agreed to a Hit & Run tour, where I would play 2-3 songs from my recent masterpieces PE and AOA. Really, people, I'm not a two-faced piece of shit." )

[Edited 4/22/15 7:28am]

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2014/04/princes-warner-brothers-deal-a-result-of-us-law-supporting-master-recording-copyright-termination.html

to my point, Prince would be on the right side of the law; its in his favor Bart!

[Edited 4/22/15 7:44am]

Doesn't that mean that WB gave Prince his and their biggest cashcow (PR) early?

Pentacle said:

lwr001 said:

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2014/04/princes-warner-brothers-deal-a-result-of-us-law-supporting-master-recording-copyright-termination.html

to my point, Prince would be on the right side of the law; its in his favor Bart!

[Edited 4/22/15 7:44am]

Doesn't that mean that WB gave Prince his and their biggest cashcow (PR) early?

doesnt mean they didnt either.. point is neither you , I nor Bart knows as we arent the artist, business affairs or legal on either side..

KingSausage said:

Yes, none of us *knows* what actually went down. But we can make educated guesses based on industry practice and common sense. WB didn't just hand a pile of cash to Prince and walk away whistling like a bunch of numbnut yokels.

the law change dictates they would have no choice..so i'll err on the side of what is true, the law

SchlomoThaHomo said:

I can't wait to hear Electric Outercourse and H-Spot.

babynoz said:

funksterr said:

???????????? How the hell can one be a member of something without joining it? Prince, at best, was close to a couple of JW members. AT BEST. Yet he tells reporters he is a member, when it suits his needs. He apparently said something similar to Warners and probably LiveNation as well if you go by the 'changed man' wording of some of the statements that came out last year. Prince's choice in fashion and tumultuous dealings with women, do not fit well into the practice of the Jehovah's Witness faith. Even if he was a member, he'd likely be thrown out for non-compliance.

Again, if that's what you suppose, then so be it. However you cannot keep stating your opinions as fact.

Show me where I did any of that. If you saw the words "apparently" and "probably" and still thought I meant it was a certain fact the issue is yours, not mine.

funksterr said:

babynoz said:

Again, if that's what you suppose, then so be it. However you cannot keep stating your opinions as fact.

Show me where I did any of that. If you saw the words "apparently" and "probably" and still thought I meant it was a certain fact the issue is yours, not mine.

Seriously?

You said.....

How the hell can one be a member of something without joining it? Prince, at best, was close to a couple of JW members.

I say he doesn't follow the JW rules, so he isn't a JW.

Not a Jehovah's Witness. He just uses the label whenever someone tries to cut a deal with him for real Prince music

You know absolutely nothing about whether or not Prince is a practicing JW. Not to mention that it's off topic.


For the right amount of guaranteed cash up front, I'm sure he would do remasters and outtakes to some degree.

You're sure? Says who?


For the umpteenth time, please learn the difference between having an opinion and being overly opinionated.

babynoz said:

funksterr said:

Show me where I did any of that. If you saw the words "apparently" and "probably" and still thought I meant it was a certain fact the issue is yours, not mine.

Seriously?

You said.....

How the hell can one be a member of something without joining it? Prince, at best, was close to a couple of JW members.

I say he doesn't follow the JW rules, so he isn't a JW.

Not a Jehovah's Witness. He just uses the label whenever someone tries to cut a deal with him for real Prince music

You know absolutely nothing about whether or not Prince is a practicing JW. Not to mention that it's off topic.


For the right amount of guaranteed cash up front, I'm sure he would do remasters and outtakes to some degree.

You're sure? Says who?


For the umpteenth time, please learn the difference between having an opinion and being overly opinionated.

I don't know what your problem is with what I wrote. Statements that are my opinion are clearly stated as opinion. Things I read somewhere else are written as fact.

You just don't like that I said Prince's JW claims are pretty much phony.

funksterr said:

babynoz said:

Seriously?

You said.....

How the hell can one be a member of something without joining it? Prince, at best, was close to a couple of JW members.

I say he doesn't follow the JW rules, so he isn't a JW.

Not a Jehovah's Witness. He just uses the label whenever someone tries to cut a deal with him for real Prince music

You know absolutely nothing about whether or not Prince is a practicing JW. Not to mention that it's off topic.


For the right amount of guaranteed cash up front, I'm sure he would do remasters and outtakes to some degree.

You're sure? Says who?


For the umpteenth time, please learn the difference between having an opinion and being overly opinionated.

I don't know what your problem is with what I wrote. Statements that are my opinion are clearly stated as opinion. Things I read somewhere else are written as fact.

You just don't like that I said Prince's JW claims are pretty much phony.

And you're doing the exact same thing again. You SUPPOSE and ASSume that I don't like your jw claims but you state it as though it's a fact when I have already explained in detail that my issue has to do with you trying to make a definitive statement regarding his jw membership as well as the many other dubious claims that you frequently spew.....stop trying to change what I actually said.

You are perfectly free to doubt his commitment all you want....knock yourself out. Remember that your opinion is not holy writ.

Furthermore, reading something elsewhere doesn't automatically make that a fact either....especially when you seldom post any source for your so called "facts".

I think Databank has it about right. Prince and WB signed a contract, that much we know. We also know that the contract entailed releasing a new album and a PR remaster with unheard songs included. We also know that Prince would get his masters back as and when a remaster was released.

Now the speculation bit: It appears that Prince already has ownership of his masters which isnt quite what was expected. And WB would not have signed a contract to give Prince all his maters back with only PE and AOA in return. So I expect, as Databank has speculated, that WB have handed Prince his masters, but Prince cannot do anything with them because WB have retained the licensing rights. And, as per the contract, Prince will only get those rights back once a remaster has been released.

So now we have a case where we have a stalemate. The contract has not been broken but it hasnt been concluded either. Prince got what he wanted but can do nothing with what he got, WB gave Prince what they promised but kept/renewed/extended the part that woud make both parties some money. No one has lost, yet. But no one has gained either. In fact, if this is true, WB have been very clever because they have prevented an expensive legal battle with Prince over the masters and have signed a new deal giving them the rights to licensing. So Prince is no better off in real terms and WB have extended their right to make money from his WB catalogue at least one more time.

Either way. the only losers in this debacle are the fans.... as per fucking usual. Prince will be happy that on paper he owns his masters, even though he can do fuck all with them. So I can easily see him saying no remasters will be released just to spite WB. In the meantime, WB can just sit back and wait until one day Prince wants to release his WB material again. Meanwhile the fanbase decreases, old fans will die, WB will go into liquidation, Prince will die and the music will be lost and forgotten.

"Prince who?" will be the response to the question, "have you heard any Prince music?" Followed by, "whats his real name?" Followed by, "I cant find any trace of him on the internet, are you sure he was real?. I can find Prince Buster, Prince Far I, Fresh Prince but no Prince"...... Oh, wait.... thats happening already.

Very, very true (except to those fans who thinks Prince gets Better With Time)

Rebeljuice said:

I think Databank has it about right. Prince and WB signed a contract, that much we know. We also know that the contract entailed releasing a new album and a PR remaster with unheard songs included. We also know that Prince would get his masters back as and when a remaster was released.

Now the speculation bit: It appears that Prince already has ownership of his masters which isnt quite what was expected. And WB would not have signed a contract to give Prince all his maters back with only PE and AOA in return. So I expect, as Databank has speculated, that WB have handed Prince his masters, but Prince cannot do anything with them because WB have retained the licensing rights. And, as per the contract, Prince will only get those rights back once a remaster has been released.

So now we have a case where we have a stalemate. The contract has not been broken but it hasnt been concluded either. Prince got what he wanted but can do nothing with what he got, WB gave Prince what they promised but kept/renewed/extended the part that woud make both parties some money. No one has lost, yet. But no one has gained either. In fact, if this is true, WB have been very clever because they have prevented an expensive legal battle with Prince over the masters and have signed a new deal giving them the rights to licensing. So Prince is no better off in real terms and WB have extended their right to make money from his WB catalogue at least one more time.

Either way. the only losers in this debacle are the fans.... as per fucking usual. Prince will be happy that on paper he owns his masters, even though he can do fuck all with them. So I can easily see him saying no remasters will be released just to spite WB. In the meantime, WB can just sit back and wait until one day Prince wants to release his WB material again. Meanwhile the fanbase decreases, old fans will die, WB will go into liquidation, Prince will die and the music will be lost and forgotten.

"Prince who?" will be the response to the question, "have you heard any Prince music?" Followed by, "whats his real name?" Followed by, "I cant find any trace of him on the internet, are you sure he was real?. I can find Prince Buster, Prince Far I, Fresh Prince but no Prince"...... Oh, wait.... thats happening already.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Rebeljuice said:

I think Databank has it about right. Prince and WB signed a contract, that much we know. We also know that the contract entailed releasing a new album and a PR remaster with unheard songs included. We also know that Prince would get his masters back as and when a remaster was released.

Now the speculation bit: It appears that Prince already has ownership of his masters which isnt quite what was expected. And WB would not have signed a contract to give Prince all his maters back with only PE and AOA in return. So I expect, as Databank has speculated, that WB have handed Prince his masters, but Prince cannot do anything with them because WB have retained the licensing rights. And, as per the contract, Prince will only get those rights back once a remaster has been released.

So now we have a case where we have a stalemate. The contract has not been broken but it hasnt been concluded either. Prince got what he wanted but can do nothing with what he got, WB gave Prince what they promised but kept/renewed/extended the part that woud make both parties some money. No one has lost, yet. But no one has gained either. In fact, if this is true, WB have been very clever because they have prevented an expensive legal battle with Prince over the masters and have signed a new deal giving them the rights to licensing. So Prince is no better off in real terms and WB have extended their right to make money from his WB catalogue at least one more time.

Either way. the only losers in this debacle are the fans.... as per fucking usual. Prince will be happy that on paper he owns his masters, even though he can do fuck all with them. So I can easily see him saying no remasters will be released just to spite WB. In the meantime, WB can just sit back and wait until one day Prince wants to release his WB material again. Meanwhile the fanbase decreases, old fans will die, WB will go into liquidation, Prince will die and the music will be lost and forgotten.

"Prince who?" will be the response to the question, "have you heard any Prince music?" Followed by, "whats his real name?" Followed by, "I cant find any trace of him on the internet, are you sure he was real?. I can find Prince Buster, Prince Far I, Fresh Prince but no Prince"...... Oh, wait.... thats happening already.

I always laugh when people use that GIF because in Citizen Kane, Kane is applauding a disastrous operatic performance by his wife and is alone clapping at first, then the crowd starts clapping politely because of who he is.

As much as I like Databank, it's not true we KNOW that Prince is contractually obligated to deliver a remaster with extra song. That was the expectation created, but a contract can have one clause about that, and other clauses that can be interpreted in the artist's favor.

In other words, the only thing we really know is that we don't know.

lwr001 said:

KingSausage said:

Yes, none of us *knows* what actually went down. But we can make educated guesses based on industry practice and common sense. WB didn't just hand a pile of cash to Prince and walk away whistling like a bunch of numbnut yokels.

the law change dictates they would have no choice..so i'll err on the side of what is true, the law

.

This is nonsense. Laws are open for interpretation, plus there are contracts involved. Pray tell: where are the numerous other cases like Prince's?

Aerogram said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I always laugh when people use that GIF because in Citizen Kane, Kane is applauding a disastrous operatic performance by his wife and is alone clapping at first, then the crowd starts clapping politely because of who he is.

As much as I like Databank, it's not true we KNOW that Prince is contractually obligated to deliver a remaster with extra song. That was the expectation created, but a contract can have one clause about that, and other clauses that can be interpreted in the artist's favor.

In other words, the only thing we really know is that we don't know.

LOL! What he's applauding about in the movie isn't the point of posting it though, now is it?

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Funkenberry as an on/off mouthpiece for Skipper shouldn't be overlooked. This kind of reminds me when Prince was whining in interviews about WB dragging their heels after just being signed with them again 5 minutes.

.

Prince talks bollocks, "ship has sailed on a 30th anniversary" - we know that already, there was a thread the other day saying it's been a year since the announcement and we're in 2015, that doesn't mean any ship has sailed for a remaster at all. I don't believe for a second WB gave Prince a wad of cash, released and promoted 2 new ho-hum albums without something in return. Of course Prince is going to make it look like he did them over, that's what he does.

I'm actually not too sad that the remaster hasn't been released now. There'll probably come a better time for such a release when it has a much bigger impact...

WB will perhaps be able to make it a proper box-set release then with a big photo book or something else cool, maybe even a DVD with never seen before footage and "making of" interviews.

A true retrospective Purple Rain remastered box-set which the album deserves...but not now.

7roses said:

I'm actually not too sad that the remaster hasn't been released now. There'll probably come a better time for such a release when it has a much bigger impact...

WB will perhaps be able to make it a proper box-set release then with a big photo book or something else cool, maybe even a DVD with never seen before footage and "making of" interviews.

A true retrospective Purple Rain remastered box-set which the album deserves...but not now.

Yes i am already waiting fo 50th anniversary also . I think 30 years was too short a time to get this box set ready.

Bart - the real loser is you as you care way too much about another man's business...

Pentacle said:

Let's start a Facebook petition, asking WB to begin court proceedings.

Ok, so we should start a petition to ask them to cover legal costs that will likely cost more than the small profit margin a Purple Rain remaster will bring in? Bad idea. Won't make a difference. Had they done this in 1996-2001 it might have given his career a bit of a jolt...nobody cares now. Except a few die hards here.

Rebeljuice said:

I think Databank has it about right. Prince and WB signed a contract, that much we know. We also know that the contract entailed releasing a new album and a PR remaster with unheard songs included. We also know that Prince would get his masters back as and when a remaster was released.

Now the speculation bit: It appears that Prince already has ownership of his masters which isnt quite what was expected. And WB would not have signed a contract to give Prince all his maters back with only PE and AOA in return. So I expect, as Databank has speculated, that WB have handed Prince his masters, but Prince cannot do anything with them because WB have retained the licensing rights. And, as per the contract, Prince will only get those rights back once a remaster has been released.

So now we have a case where we have a stalemate. The contract has not been broken but it hasnt been concluded either. Prince got what he wanted but can do nothing with what he got, WB gave Prince what they promised but kept/renewed/extended the part that woud make both parties some money. No one has lost, yet. But no one has gained either. In fact, if this is true, WB have been very clever because they have prevented an expensive legal battle with Prince over the masters and have signed a new deal giving them the rights to licensing. So Prince is no better off in real terms and WB have extended their right to make money from his WB catalogue at least one more time.

Either way. the only losers in this debacle are the fans.... as per fucking usual. Prince will be happy that on paper he owns his masters, even though he can do fuck all with them. So I can easily see him saying no remasters will be released just to spite WB. In the meantime, WB can just sit back and wait until one day Prince wants to release his WB material again. Meanwhile the fanbase decreases, old fans will die, WB will go into liquidation, Prince will die and the music will be lost and forgotten.

"Prince who?" will be the response to the question, "have you heard any Prince music?" Followed by, "whats his real name?" Followed by, "I cant find any trace of him on the internet, are you sure he was real?. I can find Prince Buster, Prince Far I, Fresh Prince but no Prince"...... Oh, wait.... thats happening already.

This pretty much sums it up.

stillwaiting said:

Pentacle said:

Let's start a Facebook petition, asking WB to begin court proceedings.

Ok, so we should start a petition to ask them to cover legal costs that will likely cost more than the small profit margin a Purple Rain remaster will bring in? Bad idea. Won't make a difference. Had they done this in 1996-2001 it might have given his career a bit of a jolt...nobody cares now. Except a few die hards here.

Prince will have to pay for the costs when (not if) he loses. So yes, let's start it now.