tab32792 said:

Speak for yourself. I don't feel guilty about shit. I love live boots. The end.

And if Mr. P. would release similar stuff we would be buyers!

Serious said:

I am not really that much of a fan anymore that I care much, but it's sad for the fans who enjoyed these sites and the ones who put effort into it to create them without earning money with it IMO. I understand that Prince wants to control his work, but doing things like this is making him lose more and more fans.

I agree

There's a certain website mentioned in the suit that features (and i paraphrase) "prince amongst many other artists".

That gets a pass then?

Strange.

tab32792 said:

Speak for yourself. I don't feel guilty about shit. I love live boots. The end.

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

thedoorkeeper said:

tab32792 said:

Speak for yourself. I don't feel guilty about shit. I love live boots. The end.

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

By enjoying stuff the respect grows.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

And even with current copyright laws, which are a fraud, the 'respect' ends after a while. The rights end. The stuff is in public domain.

Please do think about that.

thedoorkeeper said:

Javi said:

Of course I get your opinion, I'm not that dumb. But it's just your opinion, there's no need to express it as a schoolteacher. My take is completely the contrary. How much do bootlegers love music and art if they don't respect the artist's will of not releasing his work? Do you know what it means when an artist doesn't want to release something he has created? Very often, it means that he is not satisfied with the results. Or it means that he doesn't find a place for those creations in his work. Or -you may appreciate this more, since you give so much importance to economic motivation- he may want to release them in the future and therefore he'll loose money with the bootlegs.

-----

Glorifying "bootlegers for free" and condemning those who sell them is a contradiction. But, again, that's just my take and we can perfectly agree to disagree.

-----

I myself write for a magazine and am now preparing a book. For me it would be devastating if someone released something I don't consider suitable for publication. If he made money out of it woud be much less relevant. Even Prince himself may not agree with my view here, and obviously each artist or intellectual creator can have a different opinion. But I think mine would be shared by quite a few.

-----

And, of course, free bootlegers and those who sell them don't offer the same product. The first ones offer digital files; the others, pressed CDs. For those of us who despise listening to music through a computer, the work of those who press CDs and sell them, while morally rejectable, has clearly its advantages.

It's a fairly established fact that the majority of people who collect bootlegs have already purchased all the officially available material and most will purchase material they have on bootlegs if and when it becomes officially available.

In the case of Prince bootlegs, usually it is the same product. Almost all of the material that first gets posted for free by fans, later gets downloaded and pressed to CD by those that sell bootlegs. Anyone who can use a computer to download digital files can also burn those files to a CD much cheaper than giving the money to bootleggers to do it for you.

There IS a difference. This is NOT my opinion. It is fact. Prince may not condone either practice, but that doees NOT make them the same thing.

udo said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

By enjoying stuff the respect grows.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

And even with current copyright laws, which are a fraud, the 'respect' ends after a while. The rights end. The stuff is in public domain.

Please do think about that.

Yeah, Prince should not have any say so over his career or his work...we fans should have ultimate say-so. Our desires should trump everything. Fuck Prince for not realizing that.

funkyhead said:

it's good to see that the majority on here agree that it is simply theft - no grey areas at all. Prince is nowhere nearly alone in being unhappy at this. It is simply NO excuse to say that his albums are crap, his tour set lists are boring, he doesn't give the fans what they really want etc - if that were the case you'd steal anything all day every day from everyone!

For the record I have collected stuff constantly - the fact that the majority was 'free' is still no excuse - i still feel bad that I am indirectly supporting bootleggers. The only way to stop it really would be to release more & until then the theft will carry on...& many of us will continue to DL & feel guilty!

Ultimately I would love to just pay prince £ & DL music legally! Going forward I doubt that I will DL anymore.

Will you delete the bootlegs you've already downloaded?

udo said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

By enjoying stuff the respect grows.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

And even with current copyright laws, which are a fraud, the 'respect' ends after a while. The rights end. The stuff is in public domain.

Please do think about that.

What I see is justification for immature and selfish behavior.

djThunderfunk said:

Javi said:

Of course I get your opinion, I'm not that dumb. But it's just your opinion, there's no need to express it as a schoolteacher. My take is completely the contrary. How much do bootlegers love music and art if they don't respect the artist's will of not releasing his work? Do you know what it means when an artist doesn't want to release something he has created? Very often, it means that he is not satisfied with the results. Or it means that he doesn't find a place for those creations in his work. Or -you may appreciate this more, since you give so much importance to economic motivation- he may want to release them in the future and therefore he'll loose money with the bootlegs.

-----

Glorifying "bootlegers for free" and condemning those who sell them is a contradiction. But, again, that's just my take and we can perfectly agree to disagree.

-----

I myself write for a magazine and am now preparing a book. For me it would be devastating if someone released something I don't consider suitable for publication. If he made money out of it woud be much less relevant. Even Prince himself may not agree with my view here, and obviously each artist or intellectual creator can have a different opinion. But I think mine would be shared by quite a few.

-----

And, of course, free bootlegers and those who sell them don't offer the same product. The first ones offer digital files; the others, pressed CDs. For those of us who despise listening to music through a computer, the work of those who press CDs and sell them, while morally rejectable, has clearly its advantages.

It's a fairly established fact that the majority of people who collect bootlegs have already purchased all the officially available material and most will purchase material they have on bootlegs if and when it becomes officially available.

In the case of Prince bootlegs, usually it is the same product. Almost all of the material that first gets posted for free by fans, later gets downloaded and pressed to CD by those that sell bootlegs. Anyone who can use a computer to download digital files can also burn those files to a CD much cheaper than giving the money to bootleggers to do it for you.

There IS a difference. This is NOT my opinion. It is fact. Prince may not condone either practice, but that doees NOT make them the same thing.

Nowhere have I said that both actions are the same. I've just stated that the difference isn't as relevant as many of you think. In both cases the rights of the artist regarding his work are being infringed, and this is what's fundamental to me, not if the ilegal distribution is made for free or if it's made for profit. Many of you here glorify the activity of free bootlegers and strongly condemn those who sell them. I see them as essentially doing the same thing -disrespecting the artist and ripping him off.

[Edited 1/24/14 7:06am]

thedoorkeeper said:

Stymie said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

What a terrible thing to say.

It may be, but it's true that people who feel guilty about some of their actions are usually those who have a higher standard of behaviour, those who have more elevated ethics and worry about being up to them. Hitler didn't feel guilty, you know.

[Edited 1/24/14 7:09am]

Marrk said:

There's a certain website mentioned in the suit that features (and i paraphrase) "prince amongst many other artists".

That gets a pass then?

Strange.

I didn't notice that before but I just checked the site I think you mean and it looks like there will be no more Prince bootlegs there...

Blogs were a good way to spread boots for awhile, looks like it's back to the torrents, hmm?

udo said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

By enjoying stuff the respect grows.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

And even with current copyright laws, which are a fraud, the 'respect' ends after a while. The rights end. The stuff is in public domain.

Please do think about that.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

?! by your reasoning, i should have capitulated when that pimp at the bus stop tried to talk me into working for him. stop neglecting your market potential girl, you sitting on a fortune!

it is MY decision what to market and how. mine alone.

The stuff is in public domain.

not even close

[Edited 1/24/14 7:20am]

Let's take a step back for a moment:

People are sharing bootlegs online.

Prince wants to stop this.

Prince sues the blogs which distribute the majority of bootlegs of his material.

What will be the result of this?

The best outcome would be for the blogs to cease and desist and for Prince to drop the lawsuits.

The worst outcome would be for Prince to see the suits through to the end regardless of whether the plaintiffs discontinue their activities.

No, scratch that, the worst outcome would be for Prince to continue the suits and actually win a judgement of $1M from each defendent.

Regardless of the outcome of the suit, Prince bootlegs will not stop being available.

As happens EVERYTIME an online outlet for trading music is shut down, another venue will open up.

Prince bootlegs will continue to be available.

Prince fans will continue to find, download and enjoy the bootlegs.

Prince will continue to be angry about bootlegs.

Fans will continue to discuss and argue about bootlegs.

I'm looking forward to hearing about a new boot, finding it, downloading it, listening to it, then coming here, discussing it and arguing about it.

Good times...

udo said:

tab32792 said:

Speak for yourself. I don't feel guilty about shit. I love live boots. The end.

And if Mr. P. would release similar stuff we would be buyers!

thedoorkeeper said:

tab32792 said:

Speak for yourself. I don't feel guilty about shit. I love live boots. The end.

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

excuse me? you don't know me and i don't know you. i didn't disrespect you so don't disrespect me or my family ever again in your life especially not hiding behind a keyboard.

XxAxX said:

udo said:

By enjoying stuff the respect grows.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

And even with current copyright laws, which are a fraud, the 'respect' ends after a while. The rights end. The stuff is in public domain.

Please do think about that.

By not offering stuff he neglects a market.

?! by your reasoning, i should have capitulated when that pimp at the bus stop tried to talk me into working for him. stop neglecting your market potential girl, you sitting on a fortune!

it is MY decision what to market and how. mine alone.

The stuff is in public domain.

not even close

The thought process of some fans here on the Org is mindblowing at times ...

I think some Prince fans feel they are entitled to his unreleased music. I own bootlegs of some of his stuff but if he shut down bootleggers completely until the end of time not one cell of my body would be upset. That's because I don't feel like I'm entitled to have (or even listen to) his unreleased work...if it's available (one way or another) and I'm interested enough to get it, I'll go for it. But if it's NOT available it never occurs to me to get pissed off at Prince for it.

And I love the faux concern about his career lol..."The bootlegs are what keep people interested, it's what makes new fans!"...Nobody's gonna jump ship because they can't get bootlegs anymore

luv4u said:

nursev said:

luv4u said:

It is because of the 'rules' that the site founder put in place

Really...Nothing else? Prince has changed this site. I mean look at the Gallery. That place use to be lovely before he caused change. I think he has obviously shut everybody else down and he needs the org for publicity.

...Have you SEEN the, um, "publicity" that the Org gives the man? lol...

Yes, Prince needs the Org to pronounce "Breakfast Can Wait" as the "worst song of his career" and the video as being a "low budget, ghetto-looking mess". That'll drive sales way up

Or maybe it's the threads that announce that Prince's career has been killed, or the numerous posts declaring that "nobody cares about Prince anymore". He needs these types of comments and PR to offset the generally positive things the mainstream media keeps saying about his releases.

I mean, you can't buy this kind of publicity.

Byron said:

nursev said:

luv4u said:

It is because of the 'rules' that the site founder put in place

Really...Nothing else? Prince has changed this site. I mean look at the Gallery. That place use to be lovely before he caused change. I think he has obviously shut everybody else down and he needs the org for publicity.

Ben had to remove a lot of images......... even ones that were fan made!

Javi said:

RodeoSchro said:

Of course Prince owns it. Like I said earlier, IMO Prince is in the right.

I'm just pontificating on the process by which Prince may have to go through in order to win in court. XxAxX has disputed a lot of what I said, and since she works in a law firm and I am a mere corporate representative, listen to what she says.

Both of you have made very valuable contributions to the discussion. I agree with XxAxX position, but thanks to you both.

-----

I'm not an expert, but my job has led me to have some knowledge on intellectual property. And I'm a writer too, and that makes me quite sensitive to these issues.

[Edited 1/24/14 5:45am]

Thanks! The last big case I was involved in ended in 1996, so I am sure some technology has changed. But, I cannot imagine a defense attorney agreeing to a deposition by video conference. I just can't imagine any of the lawyers I know agreeing to question someone without being able to look in their eyes.

So if you can make Prince be physcially present for the deposition, then the other thing is that there is probably no possible way to schedule one deposition where 20 people, and at least 20 different lawyers, from potentially around the world can all appear at once. If I was a defense attorney, I'd tell Prince, "Hey - YOU sued all these people. Therefore, YOU have to realize that they can't all take advantage of their right to depose you at once, so you'd better be ready for multiple depositions."

That's what I'd say, but since I am not a lawyer, I could certainly be wrong. However, I'd sure do my best to inconvenience Prince, and starting with multiple depositions would be my first step.

But again, all that said I do of course believe that Prince is in the right here. He owns the rights to all his recordings and performances and no one has the right to sell or distribute them without his permission and/or compensating him.

I'm just looking at this from the other side, and as an intellectual exercise trying to figure out what the defendants could do.

luv4u said:

nursev said:

luv4u said:

Ben had to remove a lot of images......... even ones that were fan made!

it use to be purple heaven n there

It still is...............

What's sort of shitty with this case is that just a year ago he was releasing music himself to the net as if it had been botlegged. The whole "3rd Eye Girl" thing started with the "international art thief" gimmick and it made it seem he was finally okay with people distributing his live performances and rarities online. In other words, he was himself doing the same even if he was the copyright holder (nobody really was sure what the whole thing was about for a rather long period of time).

Why exactly should you be allowed to set an example with that sort of behaviour yourself and then proceed to sue others that follow you?

Byron said:

Yeah, Prince should not have any say so over his career or his work...we fans should have ultimate say-so. Our desires should trump everything. Fuck Prince for not realizing that.

Yeah, so if Prince decides not to earn money that is his right to do so. You are right.

But then he should not complain (sue...) and pretend that some people make him lose money.

Fuck certain people for not understanding that.

tab32792 said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Of course you don't feel guilty because no one taught you to respect other

people. The world revolves around you and what you want. Its not your

fault you had such lousy parents.

excuse me? you don't know me and i don't know you. i didn't disrespect you so don't disrespect me or my family ever again in your life especially not hiding behind a keyboard.

You are disrespecting Prince by downloading bootlegs - how did

Prince disrespect you that makes you behavior acceptable? Oh thats

right you don't give a shit what Prince wants.

Heres an idea - sit your parents down in front of a computer & let

them read all the posts on this so they can see both sides of the

situation and ask them if bootlegging is cool.

Oh wait never mind - I'm sure you don't give a shit what they think anyway.

[Edited 1/24/14 9:49am]