RodeoSchro said:

My take:

1. It's a civil suit. Therefore, the defendants can subpoena and depose Prince. Each and every defendant can do this, and they can all try to do it seperately. In other words, if all the Does are identified, then Prince would have to give 20 different depositions. Of course, Prince's lawyers will try to have one master deposition with 20 different lawyers present, but each one of those lawyers would get their time with Prince to ask questions. I just do not see Prince EVER sitting down for a deposition, much less 20 different depositions.

2. Unless Prince can get a summary judgement, he can't get an award without giving these depositions. Summary judgements are hard to get and harder to keep alive if appealed. So unless there is some incredible proof against the defendants, or unless the defendants have absolutely no defense whatsoever, I don't see a summary judgement being won. Which means Prince best get ready for the deposition(s).

3. You can bet the deposition(s) will be filmed. And you can bet that the very first thing Prince is going to think is, "Man, they are going to bootleg my deposition". Again, I just don't see Prince showing up for the deposition(s). And without doing that, he will have to to trial.

4. Prince says that he is entitled to not less than $1 million per defendant, and that he can prove that. My response would be, "If bootlegging cost you so much money, why didn't you ever just sell this stuff yourself? You'd have made $$$millions - you said so yourself!" Of course, Prince is under no obligation to have ever offered this stuff for sale, but it will be very interesting to see how Prince proves that each bootlegger cost him at least $1 million. How will he do that? By asking his fans how much they would pay/did pay for bootlegged stuff? And how much would they have paid Prince if he HAD offered it for sale? Interesting.

5. As to damages, the defendants will almost certainly bring Lotu$flower.com up as proof that Prince lost nowhere near $1 million per defendant. Lotu$flower.com was a spectacular failure, and it DID offer bootlegs/commercially unavailable stuff to its members. As I recall, the guys that developed Lotu$flower.com do NOT think very highly of Prince, as he was impossible to work with.

6. For that matter, ALL of Prince's music clubs could be fodder for deposition questions. A good attorney could establish a pattern of Prince's business practices, starting with the "lifetime memberships" of the old NPGMC.

7. Bootleggers do NOT have ANY effect on copyright issues. If that were the case, nearly every single artist in the world would never own a copyright. And you don't see massively bootlegged artists like Bruce Springsteen or U2 going after bootleggers with respect to enforcing or preserving copyright ownership.

On the face of this, it seems like a missile fired by Prince and he's certainly within his rights to do this. But as the actual case goes on, I don't see Prince ever giving a deposition or showing up for trial. If there was a trial, and Prince had avoided his deposition(s) and didn't show up at the trial to give testimony, I don't see his chances of winning over a jury as being very high.

.

[Edited 1/23/14 5:36am]

i love this. thanks for making it clearer.

Stymie said:

skilletnomicrowave said:

I agree with you but what people hate is when someone gets on a very high horse when they themselves probably own said illegally distributed items, you can't support the legal action and partake at the same time.

Fortunately Prince, i no longer listen to your shite, but I have shared bootlegs for many years. You are more than welcome to come and sue me.

Here is my address:

[Snip - luv4u] You can email through the org for directions and to find out what innoculations you will require before entering the country.

Cheers.

CocoRock said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Yes it was!!! It proves Prince really does care about his REAL fans, MALE & female. But U should consider getting all the moderators together and making a decision, 2 shut this site down completely! Its become too negative and full of evil RATCHET people...

LMMFBAO!!! Girl, you are a trip!

Real talk though, if more than a couple people are telling me about myself, I would back the fuck up and acknowledge that I'm the common denominator, take a look at things, and try to get right.

But that's just me. You keep doing you booboo, cuz you know, it's everybody ELSE that's ratchet.

kgarcia863 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Yes it was!!! It proves Prince really does care about his REAL fans, MALE & female. But U should consider getting all the moderators together and making a decision, 2 shut this site down completely! Its become too negative and full of evil RATCHET people...

I wish someone would shut this site down; the Org sucks the positive vibe right out of me as soon as I hit click! This thread is a reminder, actually a huge slap in the face as to why I elect not to post, comment and very very seldom visit this place!!! Now, I don't know Kcool, but one has to appreciate his/her loyalty. At least he/she stands for what he/she believes in. "If you don't stand something; you will fall for anything".

[Edited 1/23/14 1:15am]

To both of you and any others that want this site shut down, there's a simple solution for you: don't come here!

In my opinion, the moderators need to ban the both of you and everyone else that calls for the site to be shut down. They should add that to the rules so it's very clear. Anyone agree?

bigd74 said:

djThunderfunk said:

D'oh!

Why are you censoring the artists name. He would have needed permission to record it and sell it. And it's still available to buy.

This was discussed earlier in the thread. Never mind...

djThunderfunk said:

kgarcia863 said:

I wish someone would shut this site down; the Org sucks the positive vibe right out of me as soon as I hit click! This thread is a reminder, actually a huge slap in the face as to why I elect not to post, comment and very very seldom visit this place!!! Now, I don't know Kcool, but one has to appreciate his/her loyalty. At least he/she stands for what he/she believes in. "If you don't stand something; you will fall for anything".

[Edited 1/23/14 1:15am]

To both of you and any others that want this site shut down, there's a simple solution for you: don't come here!

In my opinion, the moderators need to ban the both of you and everyone else that calls for the site to be shut down. They should add that to the rules so it's very clear. Anyone agree?

XxAxX said:

hmmm. how do artists actually FEEL when their stuff is ripped off??????

'I'm done': Quentin Tarantino ditches new Western after script leaks

http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/quentin-tarantino-ditches-new-western-after-script-leaks-2D11972077

Kory Grow Rolling Stone

17 hours ago

Jerod Harris / Getty Images for Variety

Quentin Tarantino, seen here in 2013, says he will shift to work on another film since his planned western script was leaked.

Quentin Tarantino's plans for making another Western have quickly gone south. After telling Jay Leno in November that the experience of making "Django Unchained" had inspired him to want to make another film in the genre, he's made an about face. Deadline reports that the director was so upset when the script for "The Hateful Eight" leaked, that he no longer wishes to make the movie right now. The script was given to a small pool of actors and he learned of the leak when his manager began receiving calls from agents wishing to pitch actors for the movie's roles.

See Peter Travers' Top 10...es of 2013

"I'm very, very depressed," Tarantino told Deadline. "I finished a script, a first draft, and I didn't mean to shoot it until next winter, a year from now. I gave it to six people, and apparently it's gotten out today."

Among the people Tarantino gave the script to were three actors: Michael Madsen, Bruce Dern and Tim Roth. Tarantino exonerated Roth — who had previously worked with the director on "Reservoir Dogs," "Pulp Fiction" and "Four Rooms" — calling him "the one I know didn't do this." He said he had given the script to one of the producers of "Django Unchained," Reggie Hudlin, and he knew that Hudlin let an agent read it. "That’s a betrayal, but not crippling because the agent didn’t end up with the script," Tarantino said. Ultimately, the director believes one of the other actors let their agent read the script, and that person shared it with "everyone in Hollywood."

Check Out the 25 Greatest...f All Time

Tarantino said he now plans to publish the script as a book and possibly revisit it as a film idea sometime in the next five years. He also said that he intends to write a major part for Dern in whatever film he decides to make next.

"I don't know how these (expletive) agents work, but I'm not making this next," Tarantino continued. "I'm going to publish it, and that's it for now. I give it out to six people, and if I can't trust them to that degree, then I have no desire to make it. I'll publish it. I'm done. I'll move on to the next thing. I've got 10 more where that came from."

Tarantino said he had another script that he was "full of piss and vinegar" about, one he had been working on concurrently with "The Hateful Eight." "The idea was, I was going to write two scripts," he said. "I wasn't going to shoot the Western until next winter . . . so now I'll do that one."

The difference here is that someone stole a work in progress from Tarantino that he was planning to finish and release. Prince seems to have no plan to release the bootlegs the sites were sharing.

Superconductor said:

kgarcia863 said:

I wish someone would shut this site down; the Org sucks the positive vibe right out of me as soon as I hit click! This thread is a reminder, actually a huge slap in the face as to why I elect not to post, comment and very very seldom visit this place!!! Now, I don't know Kcool, but one has to appreciate his/her loyalty. At least he/she stands for what he/she believes in. "If you don't stand something; you will fall for anything".

[Edited 1/23/14 1:15am]

I don't always agree with KCool but this ganging up on him/her on this thread is awful. These comments should all be deleted.

The moderators are busy ensuring that no gossip and legally problematic stuff is posted, but what about enforcing a code of conduct or such to stop the vitriol?

It's simple really, anybody who comes here and says the org should be closed deserves to be slammed by the rest of us and banned by the moderators.

Javi said:

What I don't get is the huge distinction almost everybody makes between sharing bootlegs and selling them. You're disrespecting the artist's rights in both cases, your infringing intellectual property in both cases. If someone took something I have written and made it public without my consent, I couldn't care less if he sold it or gave it for free. He would have distributed my work without my permission, he would have stolen something I don't want to release and released it himself. Doesn't matter if he gets money out of it or not. The economic side has very liitle relevance here, the way I see it.

If you can't see the difference between selling bootlegs for profit and sharing them with other obsessive fans for the love of the art then I'll explain it: motivation and reward.

Those that sell boots are motivated by profit and it is their reward. They don't care about art and don't care which artists they sell, they only care about what they get out of it... profit.

Those that share boots are motivated by an obsessive passion for the art and their reward is in sharing that passion with like-minded obsessive fans. They care only about the art and the specific artist(s) they share. In fact, they SPEND their money and their time to share without any monetary compensation.

Get it?

[Edited 1/23/14 7:40am]

[Edited 1/23/14 7:44am]

skilletnomicrowave said:

Thanks Rodeo Schro, very interesting. Regarding proving the $1m worth, could the defendants show facts and figures with the estimated sales of his last outputs which netted far less to show the $1m is an unreasonable sum?

Well first of all, the defendants don't have to show anything. Prince made the allegation that he lost at least $1 million per defendant, so Princehas to prove up how he lost that much money per defendant.

The defendants, as I understand it, didn't make a dime. Everything they bootlegged was given away for free from downloads and torrents. You bring up a very interesting point, though. One of Prince's requests in his Prayer for Relief is "Disgorgement of ill-gotten gains". If none of the defendants ever sold anything, what "ill-gotten gains" is Prince asking for?

In fact, there is another question. Now, I am NOT an attorney. I have, however, been involved in a lot of corporate civil cases, including one that went to the United States Supreme Court (we won, yay!). So I have some experience here but again - I am NOT an attorney, so there could be legal stuff I don't know about. Actually, I am SURE there is legal stuff I don't know about.

Here's what I am wondering:

1. Prince is asking for statuatory damages that he says are proveable for at least $1 million/defendant.

2. He is also, I assume, asking for punitive damages. My understanding is that you can't get punitive damages unless you first have actual damages. That means Prince has to prove the actual damages before he can get punitive damages. But if he can't prove actual damages then he can't get punitive damages, either. So what could he get other than an injunction against Facebook/the Internet/whatever?

3. To prove actual damages, it seems to me that Prince would have to show definitive proof that he had actual plans to sell what was bootlegged. I don't know how far testimony from Prince of "I had no plans at the present time to sell this stuff, but maybe I might want to sell it in a few years" would go in establishing actual damages. Clearly, Prince would have the ultimate right to sell his stuff, but would he have actual damages at this time? Seems a little shaky to me. However, I would not be surprised if there are laws that allow for the financial punishment of people who "steal" the work of someone else and sell it. If that's in Prince's suit though, I missed it. But I'm not a lawyer, so it's entirely possible I could miss something like that.

It appears that a LOT of this has to be substantiated through testimony from Prince himself. I don't think an assistant could get on the stand and testify, "Prince told me he was going to sell all this stuff and make $15 million from it, and I believed him". I think that would be hearsay. An assistant could say all that in a deposition, but I don't think it would ever be admissable in the trial.

.

[Edited 1/23/14 8:08am]

dualboot said:

(not directly serious but just a thought)

Can you countersue?

For providing a basis/platform for indirect income over the years. You can argue (succesfully) that a large portion of his income over the last 20 years found his basis in these recordings.

Absolutely a defendant can countersue. At this time though, the only actual defendants are Chodera and Karina Jindrova. But they could, and as a rule SHOULD, file a counterclaim.

I'm not saying they are right, or even have any grounds for a counterclaim. But I do know from experience that you are way more likely to get a good settlement or resolution without a trial if the person that sued you also has something to lose.

databank said:

jaawwnn said:

Yep it's all my fault. I'm actually a member of

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/cbEPkZQ.gif[/img:$uid]

Sassey's gonna love that

[Edited 1/22/14 8:45am]

What are the odds that Sassey T is one of the unnamed "Does"?

djThunderfunk said:

Superconductor said:

I don't always agree with KCool but this ganging up on him/her on this thread is awful. These comments should all be deleted.

The moderators are busy ensuring that no gossip and legally problematic stuff is posted, but what about enforcing a code of conduct or such to stop the vitriol?

It's simple really, anybody who comes here and says the org should be closed deserves to be slammed by the rest of us and banned by the moderators.

I think banning someone for suggesting the site be closed is a bit extreme.

I doubt the moderators would even give the idea of closing the org a moments consideration.

But it sure upsets people to even suggest it.

Prince.orgers are a very passionate group and

YOU DON'T TRY AND FUCK WITH OUR ORG.!!!!!!!!!!!!

RodeoSchro said:

3. You can bet the deposition(s) will be filmed. And you can bet that the very first thing Prince is going to think is, "Man, they are going to bootleg my deposition".

RodeoSchro said:

dualboot said:

(not directly serious but just a thought)

Can you countersue?

For providing a basis/platform for indirect income over the years. You can argue (succesfully) that a large portion of his income over the last 20 years found his basis in these recordings.

Absolutely a defendant can countersue. At this time though, the only actual defendants are Chodera and Karina Jindrova. But they could, and as a rule SHOULD, file a counterclaim.

I'm not saying they are right, or even have any grounds for a counterclaim. But I do know from experience that you are way more likely to get a good settlement or resolution without a trial if the person that sued you also has something to lose.

you should defend them..

RodeoSchro said:

databank said:

Sassey's gonna love that

[Edited 1/22/14 8:45am]

What are the odds that Sassey T is one of the unnamed "Does"?

None. But the odds that she may CLAIM than she is and that P suing her is part of his big conspiracy to destroy her and prevent her from suing him first (since she's supposed to sue him any day now ) are quite high

U know what the weirdest shit is? It's that I KNOW she'll be reading this. She damn reads everything we write here. Sassey baby, u read me?

Man, I thought Wolf of Wall Street was a wild ride...

databank said:

RodeoSchro said:

What are the odds that Sassey T is one of the unnamed "Does"?

None. But the odds that she may CLAIM than she is and that P suing her is part of his big conspiracy to destroy her and prevent her from suing him first (since she's supposed to sue him any day now ) are quite high

U know what the weirdest shit is? It's that I KNOW she'll be reading this. She damn reads everything we write here. Sassey baby, u read me?

BTW she managed to get banned from Lipstick Alley too

thedoorkeeper said:

djThunderfunk said:

It's simple really, anybody who comes here and says the org should be closed deserves to be slammed by the rest of us and banned by the moderators.

I think banning someone for suggesting the site be closed is a bit extreme.

I doubt the moderators would even give the idea of closing the org a moments consideration.

But it sure upsets people to even suggest it.

Prince.orgers are a very passionate group and

YOU DON'T TRY AND FUCK WITH OUR ORG.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heres my plan:

I will not read anymore of KCOOLMUZIQ posts.

Therefore I won't be responding any of his/her nonsense.

KCOOLMUZIQ is dead to me.

Your suggestion to close the org is an insult to everyone involved.

You can keep posting but I will not respond in any way to your posts.

You have been shunned.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Have U ever wondered why he plays the same setlist smartypants?

Because he's boring and predictable and not interested in trying new things anymore?

The really funny part about this is my interest in bootlegs (aside fromr the occasionally uncovered unreleased studio track from the 80's) is at an all-time low. I have absolutely no interest in listening to any of his recent shows with the NPG, even if they were soundboard, which they aren't. I would love a soundboard 3rdeyegirl show, but they aren't out there on bootleg, and Prince won't release one ... and at the end of the day, I don't really want it *that* bad.

novabrkr said:

He probably knows because he performed that snippet of "Moonbeam Levels" live soon after the Costello performance.

Sometimes I wonder if Prince even knows how to play a full-length song anymore....one that's not a jam but an actual fucking SONG.

nursev said:

Remember the guy who made those dolls? Yes they were damn ugly, but dude was a fan too and instead of Prince making money with that guy he fucked that guy's world up with letigation. Bootleggers are fans. People dont fuck with Prince's music unless they like his music. People either love him or hate him-there is no in between.

I didn't think the Le Petit Prince dolls were ugly..they were really fun. And happily right after Prince forced him to take all of those down, I was able to buy an amazing t-shirt from the guy with an artistic rendering of Prince on it, without mentioning him at all, so it doesn't violate any copyrights - and not surprisingly, it's a million times cooler than any bullshit t-shirt Prince has ever officially sold.

theblueangel said:

nursev said:

Remember the guy who made those dolls? Yes they were damn ugly, but dude was a fan too and instead of Prince making money with that guy he fucked that guy's world up with letigation. Bootleggers are fans. People dont fuck with Prince's music unless they like his music. People either love him or hate him-there is no in between.

I didn't think the Le Petit Prince dolls were ugly..they were really fun. And happily right after Prince forced him to take all of those down, I was able to buy an amazing t-shirt from the guy with an artistic rendering of Prince on it, without mentioning him at all, so it doesn't violate any copyrights - and not surprisingly, it's a million times cooler than any bullshit t-shirt Prince has ever officially sold.

Prince coulda licenced the shit, yeah, that woulda allowed some cool stuff to happen. I loved these pics n dolls. The album covers recreations were delicious! P should actually have hired the guy to do an album cover 4 him 4 one thing.

lwr001 said:

RodeoSchro said:

Absolutely a defendant can countersue. At this time though, the only actual defendants are Chodera and Karina Jindrova. But they could, and as a rule SHOULD, file a counterclaim.

I'm not saying they are right, or even have any grounds for a counterclaim. But I do know from experience that you are way more likely to get a good settlement or resolution without a trial if the person that sued you also has something to lose.

you should defend them..

LOL, I'm not a lawyer. And I think Prince, as unappealing as his suit may seem, is basically right.
We WANT him to sell us the stuff that gets bootlegged. Just because he won't doesn't mean he still doesn't own the recordings. Of course, he does.

But it seems there's got to be a way to settle this so that Prince gets paid, and the fans get the stuff. My guess is that if he got together with the bootleggers, he'd find some that would be willing to compile and distribute his stuff, and be happy to get paid a commission out of whatever they can make available for sale.

databank said:

databank said:

None. But the odds that she may CLAIM than she is and that P suing her is part of his big conspiracy to destroy her and prevent her from suing him first (since she's supposed to sue him any day now ) are quite high

U know what the weirdest shit is? It's that I KNOW she'll be reading this. She damn reads everything we write here. Sassey baby, u read me?

BTW she managed to get banned from Lipstick Alley too

Dang! My Lipstick Alley ID just got approved.

RodeoSchro said:

dualboot said:

(not directly serious but just a thought)

Can you countersue?

For providing a basis/platform for indirect income over the years. You can argue (succesfully) that a large portion of his income over the last 20 years found his basis in these recordings.

Absolutely a defendant can countersue. At this time though, the only actual defendants are Chodera and Karina Jindrova. But they could, and as a rule SHOULD, file a counterclaim.

I'm not saying they are right, or even have any grounds for a counterclaim. But I do know from experience that you are way more likely to get a good settlement or resolution without a trial if the person that sued you also has something to lose.

Thanks, in the same vain as earlier:

- Reasons : Prince the Artist is damaging Prince the Memory

or Fans protecting Prince the Artist from himself damaging his ego and legacy

It's all perception here.

RodeoSchro said: