HamsterHuey said:

I like how you incorporate the liner notes and interviews.

I would have included his open letter to Madonna, too, but then I couldn't find it and thought, "oh, well, it's not that important anyway."

Thanks, scififilmnerd, for all of your "Ultimate" articles. Although I don't agree with some of the negatives opinions, it was worth it for the avalanche of factual info. Great work!

scififilmnerd said:

HamsterHuey said:

I like how you incorporate the liner notes and interviews.

I would have included his open letter to Madonna, too, but then I couldn't find it and thought, "oh, well, it's not that important anyway."

Jan 19 1999 2:00 PM EST

The Artist Asks Madonna For Help In Label Dispute

The Artist, who in his previous incarnation as Prince recorded the hit "1999," which was undoubtedly played at many a New Year's Eve party recently, has taken to the web to make a rather unusual plea.

Last week on his official Love 4 One Another website (www.love4oneanother)*, the Artist posted an open letter to Madonna in which he asked for her assistance in dealing with his former label, Warner Bros. The Artist is hoping to get the label to return the ownership of all the master recordings he made for Warner Bros., dating back to his 1978 debut, "For You," and has requested that Madonna become involved in the dispute.

In the message Prince goes on to describe, in rather florid language, a dream he had in which he asks Madonna for her at this year's Grammy ceremonies. Ten years ago, Madonna and Prince collaborated on "Love Song," a track that was included on her "Like a Prayer" album.

The ownership rights to Prince's back catalog has become issue in the last few months, as both Warner Bros. and the Artist have released new versions of his "1999" single, which was originally issued in 1982.

Madonna hasn't responded to Prince's request yet, but we'll keep you posted.

-mtv.com

*January 1999

Madonna: artist 2 artist, eye am sure u understand the connection eye feel
2 my music. U more than any1 at Time Warner knows the patience and care
with which we give birth 2 creation... and u maybe moreso than any1 knows
how much a new artist longs 2 find a place amongst "the chosen few" 2
flaunt those creations (and at the same time put food on one's table).
Music lawyers, managers and execs make deals best suited 4 their futures
as well as urs in most cases... OWNERSHIP OF MASTER RECORDINGS IS ALMOST
NEVER AN ISSUE! (let's remember, it was 1978!)

Eye dreamt of u and eye at the Grammy Awards and felt a need 2 write this
letter 2 u. In my dream, eye approached u and asked u if u remembered me,
and u said "sure"... u were on ur way up 2 receive 1 of numerous awards u
will no doubt receive that night, and eye asked u 2 help me with my fight
2 retain ownership of my legacy and u said, "eye don't own ur masters,
Time Warner does... if it was my company, u could have them."

"But eye say 2 u, dear sister, it IS ur company as long as u remain in
their graces... 4 all Artists, Madonna, make a stand 4 what is RIGHT...
surely they will listen 2 u!" In the dream u seemed 2 feel me and yet u
were a bit non-committal... so as u approached the podium, eye followed u,
and as we stood side by side, eye said, "b glad this a commercial break!"
and eye walked offstage and looked 4 Wyclef. Interpretations aside, artist
2 artist, "U Can Help Us... and eye know u will becuz u REMEMBER ME."

squirrelgrease said:

scififilmnerd said:

Jan 19 1999 2:00 PM EST

The Artist Asks Madonna For Help In Label Dispute

The Artist, who in his previous incarnation as Prince recorded the hit "1999," which was undoubtedly played at many a New Year's Eve party recently, has taken to the web to make a rather unusual plea.

Last week on his official Love 4 One Another website (www.love4oneanother)*, the Artist posted an open letter to Madonna in which he asked for her assistance in dealing with his former label, Warner Bros. The Artist is hoping to get the label to return the ownership of all the master recordings he made for Warner Bros., dating back to his 1978 debut, "For You," and has requested that Madonna become involved in the dispute.

In the message Prince goes on to describe, in rather florid language, a dream he had in which he asks Madonna for her at this year's Grammy ceremonies. Ten years ago, Madonna and Prince collaborated on "Love Song," a track that was included on her "Like a Prayer" album.

The ownership rights to Prince's back catalog has become issue in the last few months, as both Warner Bros. and the Artist have released new versions of his "1999" single, which was originally issued in 1982.

Madonna hasn't responded to Prince's request yet, but we'll keep you posted.

-mtv.com

*January 1999

Madonna: artist 2 artist, eye am sure u understand the connection eye feel
2 my music. U more than any1 at Time Warner knows the patience and care
with which we give birth 2 creation... and u maybe moreso than any1 knows
how much a new artist longs 2 find a place amongst "the chosen few" 2
flaunt those creations (and at the same time put food on one's table).
Music lawyers, managers and execs make deals best suited 4 their futures
as well as urs in most cases... OWNERSHIP OF MASTER RECORDINGS IS ALMOST
NEVER AN ISSUE! (let's remember, it was 1978!)

Eye dreamt of u and eye at the Grammy Awards and felt a need 2 write this
letter 2 u. In my dream, eye approached u and asked u if u remembered me,
and u said "sure"... u were on ur way up 2 receive 1 of numerous awards u
will no doubt receive that night, and eye asked u 2 help me with my fight
2 retain ownership of my legacy and u said, "eye don't own ur masters,
Time Warner does... if it was my company, u could have them."

"But eye say 2 u, dear sister, it IS ur company as long as u remain in
their graces... 4 all Artists, Madonna, make a stand 4 what is RIGHT...
surely they will listen 2 u!" In the dream u seemed 2 feel me and yet u
were a bit non-committal... so as u approached the podium, eye followed u,
and as we stood side by side, eye said, "b glad this a commercial break!"
and eye walked offstage and looked 4 Wyclef. Interpretations aside, artist
2 artist, "U Can Help Us... and eye know u will becuz u REMEMBER ME."

Wyclef? Presumably Wyclef Jean? What the heck did he have to do with Prince's little scheme?

What, that was in 1999? I thought it was in 1995.

Anyway, thanks for posting it, Squirrel.

Number23 said:

Nice read, completely soured and ruined by... scififilmnerd said:

Emancipation turned out to be the last O( >/Prince album of new material with a high percentage of good songs. Most of his subsequent album releases featured only about a couple of good songs each...So when O( > announced, “Prince is dead!” on The Gold Experience tour in 1995, he wasn’t kidding.

Not only complete nonsense, but an insult to the artist you've decicated so much energy towards.

Debatable.

We've all seen single disc Emancipation configurations conjured up by fans imaginations. That in itself implies 2/3rds of it could be happily discarded by many. So if he's batting at a little over 30% on this one, that equates to three songs out of ten being killer.

Which is about right these last few years on all his albums. The other songs being passable or poor.

scififilmnerd said:

eelco said:

I got a bit upset by reading the part about Mayte pretending to be pregnant for the video shoot; must have been really awkward for her .....

I agree. That can't have been a good experience for her.

[Edited 8/29/10 7:39am]

awkward doesn't even come close to describing how appalling this is. as a father it upset me too.

is there no way it was recorded sooner than thought?

KAB said:

scififilmnerd said:

I agree. That can't have been a good experience for her.

awkward doesn't even come close to describing how appalling this is. as a father it upset me too.

is there no way it was recorded sooner than thought?

Well, that would be nice, because as it's been reported, it sort of gives the impression that was so intent on promoting the family man image that he'd go to any length to keep people in the dark about the true fate of the child. If the truth hadn't come out, we might all still believe that he and Mayte had a son and were a happy little family.

I think that poor must have been crazed with grief and desperation to conceive of such a plan and have Mayte go along with it, because I think being open about what had happened would have been just as good a strategy. He had a golden opportunity to come clean to Oprah. The public sympathy would've been enourmous.

And it can't have been healthy for and Mayte having to repress their true feelings in order to present a happy appearance, no matter what they believed about "it's never as bad as it seems until you say."

It's such a sad story.

On the other hand, then people might have thought he was crazy to go ahead with the release of Emancipation, what with that cover spread about birth and the ultrasound heartbeat and all, so what do I know about what was best?

I think I would've postponed the album and made some changes to the cover and maybe exchange some of the tracks.

On the other hand, that might have been expensive had all the covers and CDs already been printed, so what do I know?

Maybe it all happened the only way it could have?

But that still doesn't excuse the Betcha video. There was no need to make Mayte do that.

[Edited 8/31/10 6:44am]

Coincidence or fate?

The Emancipation track lists were all timed to the second. With that in mind...

She Gave Her Angels and Dreamin' About U are both (3:52), suggesting that She Gave Her Angels was replaced by Dreamin' About U.

Am The DJ and White Mansion are both (4:47).

And it seems more likely to me that Goodbye (4:34) was replaced by The Love We Make (4:39) than The Holy River (6:55) despite what said in the cover for Crystal Ball.

[Edited 8/31/10 5:26am]

scififilmnerd said:

Coincidence or fate?

The Emancipation track lists were all timed to the second. With that in mind...

She Gave Her Angels and Dreamin' About U are both (3:52), suggesting that She Gave Her Angels was replaced by Dreamin' About U.

Am The DJ and White Mansion are both (4:47).

And it seems more likely to me that Goodbye (4:34) was replaced by The Love We Make (4:39) than The Holy River (6:55) despite what said in the cover for Crystal Ball.

[Edited 8/31/10 5:26am]

he could just edit/extend tracks for time though, just add a longer drum loop at the start, middle or end, or add in a bit of ambient keyboard or sound effects at the start/end of tracks, or fade out earlier etc, remember crystal ball tracks were mostly butchered like that

unique said:

he could just edit/extend tracks for time though, just add a longer drum loop at the start, middle or end, or add in a bit of ambient keyboard or sound effects at the start/end of tracks, or fade out earlier etc, remember crystal ball tracks were mostly butchered like that

Yes, and on some tracks it seems fairly obvious he did that, particularly on disc 1, extending quite a few tracks to reach the 1 hour goal.

I also think One Kiss At A Time is an edit of a loooong version. I mean, usually his sex ballads are a mile long, but this one fades out suspiciously.

[Edited 8/31/10 6:27am]

UPDATE: Just deleted: "Before disbanded his band The New Power Generation on 8 March 1996, they recorded Saviour with the NPG Hornz. Damned If Do featured a horn arrangement by Michael B. Nelson of The NPG Hornz and and was probably also recorded at this time before Eric Leeds was hired to play horns on new songs instead of The NPG Hornz. The same is probably the case with Courtin’ Time, which also featured The NPG Hornz, because later told Musician, “I played Courtin' Time with Eric once for twenty minutes, and he was wailin' that whole time,” indicating that the song already existed before Eric was hired in May/June 1996."

Instead I wrote: "During the Chaos And Disorder session in late February 1996, recorded Saviour with The New Power Generation and Damned If Do with the NPG Hornz. Courtin’ Time, which also featured The NPG Hornz, was probably also recorded at this time, because later told Musician, “I played Courtin' Time with Eric once for twenty minutes, and he was wailin' that whole time,” indicating that the song already existed before Eric Leeds was hired in May/June 1996 to play horns instead of The NPG Hornz."

Because I just remembered that KAB reported that Damned If Do was reported recorded then by The Continental in August 1996 on the Ultimate Chaos And Disorder thread. And that simplifies that rather convoluted paragraph, making for much smoother reading, yay!

scififilmnerd said:

KAB said:

awkward doesn't even come close to describing how appalling this is. as a father it upset me too.

is there no way it was recorded sooner than thought?

Well, that would be nice, because as it's been reported, it sort of gives the impression that was so intent on promoting the family man image that he'd go to any length to keep people in the dark about the true fate of the child. If the truth hadn't come out, we might all still believe that he and Mayte had a son and were a happy little family.

I think that poor must have been crazed with grief and desperation to conceive of such a plan and have Mayte go along with it, because I think being open about what had happened would have been just as good a strategy. He had a golden opportunity to come clean to Oprah. The public sympathy would've been enourmous.

And it can't have been healthy for and Mayte having to repress their true feelings in order to present a happy appearance, no matter what they believed about "it's never as bad as it seems until you say."

It's such a sad story.

On the other hand, then people might have thought he was crazy to go ahead with the release of Emancipation, what with that cover spread about birth and the ultrasound heartbeat and all, so what do I know about what was best?

I think I would've postponed the album and made some changes to the cover and maybe exchange some of the tracks.

On the other hand, that might have been expensive had all the covers and CDs already been printed, so what do I know?

Maybe it all happened the only way it could have?

But that still doesn't excuse the Betcha video. There was no need to make Mayte do that.

[Edited 8/31/10 6:44am]

I agree with all that you said. IMO the right thing to do was postpone the album and take care of Mayte [and himself].

Expense doesn't even come into it.

The result would, of course mean a different album, probably like Dream Factory turning into SOTT.

KAB said:

I agree with all that you said. IMO the right thing to do was postpone the album and take care of Mayte [and himself].

Expense doesn't even come into it.

I agree, too. And look who got a belated thank you for supplying the Damned If Do info.

[Edited 8/31/10 9:12am]

Marrk said:

scififilmnerd said:

What, that was in 1999? I thought it was in 1995.

Anyway, thanks for posting it, Squirrel.

Yeah, Prince had a bug up his ass for several years about his masters and it all kind of blends together.

KAB said:

scififilmnerd said:

Well, that would be nice, because as it's been reported, it sort of gives the impression that was so intent on promoting the family man image that he'd go to any length to keep people in the dark about the true fate of the child. If the truth hadn't come out, we might all still believe that he and Mayte had a son and were a happy little family.

I think that poor must have been crazed with grief and desperation to conceive of such a plan and have Mayte go along with it, because I think being open about what had happened would have been just as good a strategy. He had a golden opportunity to come clean to Oprah. The public sympathy would've been enourmous.

And it can't have been healthy for and Mayte having to repress their true feelings in order to present a happy appearance, no matter what they believed about "it's never as bad as it seems until you say."

It's such a sad story.

On the other hand, then people might have thought he was crazy to go ahead with the release of Emancipation, what with that cover spread about birth and the ultrasound heartbeat and all, so what do I know about what was best?

I think I would've postponed the album and made some changes to the cover and maybe exchange some of the tracks.

On the other hand, that might have been expensive had all the covers and CDs already been printed, so what do I know?

Maybe it all happened the only way it could have?

But that still doesn't excuse the Betcha video. There was no need to make Mayte do that.

[Edited 8/31/10 6:44am]

I agree with all that you said. IMO the right thing to do was postpone the album and take care of Mayte [and himself].

Expense doesn't even come into it.

The result would, of course mean a different album, probably like Dream Factory turning into SOTT.

I went to those shows at Paisley Park Oct 26-27 and Mayte was nowhere in sight. The local media were having a heyday, speculation if the baby was alive or had passed. I remember calling into KDWB and saying that Prince had done these shows and that I couldn't believe if the baby had passed that he would be performing shows so soon, needless to say I was wrong. I did see her at the show Nov 16, not performing just sitting by the soundboard area. As far as the video, the parts with Mayte could have been filmed earlier. The other parts were obviously done around the same time as the televised Emancipation show, since the soundstage area was painted all white for both.

here is my "ultimate emancipation" compilation. i finally listened through again and noted the track titles, i made this compilation a good few years ago. i think i started with a tape version in the 90s, in a similar way to my tape compilation of ultimate ballads, and then remade them for CD. i based this compilation on the slow/mellow tracks that mostly feature on disc 2 and added back the unused emancipation era tracks that appeared on crystal ball etc. i used a bit of artistic licence and added i will/into the light from chaos and disorder as it sounds like it was part of the same sessions, i also added the 95 version of empty room as it fits in well, particularly if you make a playlist of these tracks, correct the volume levels and play it back, i worked on the running order to make it sound perfect. i also added a case of u when i did the cd version, obviously it's not from anywhere near emancipation, so that's the real artistic license whereas the other non emancipation tracks were at least from around the same year or so as emancipation was recorded and could have easily been included in an official release. omit a case of u if you wish, but as it's piano and voice, it fits in as a timeless sounding recording, and if you put together the order below and play it to someone and ask them to pick out the odd track, unless they knew their prince they would never know. if rave can feature a 10 year old recording, and that was an official release, then i don't see why a 6 year old recording can't also fit, apart from the album either needing to be witheld for 6 years or prince having a working delorian. he could also have potentially had a similar sounding recording of the track in the vault, it was recorded in the early 70s so the song could have been included as it had been written long before and played by prince at the 83 first avenue "purple rain" show. it also fits in well after the cover of i can't make u love me

1) 20/20

2) one kiss at a time

3) soul sanctuary

4) curious child

5) dreaming about u

6) journey 2 the centre of your heart

7) goodbye

8) i can't make u love me

9) a case of u

10) let's have a baby

11) saviour

12) in2 the light

13) i will

14) one of us

15) the love we make

16) the holy river

17) empty room 95

18) she gave her angels

it's very much a downbeat mellow slow moody spiritual themed compilation. i think if he released the above at the time he would have received great critical acclaim, the sales may not have been great though, but then the official sales weren't all that great either and the reviews were patchy. if you like the rainbow children, try playing the above compilation followed by TRC, it sounds like this was an album with TRC the sequel. i didn't edit any of the tracks to seque into each other apart from those than do on the official albums, the tracks just follow each other well, so it has a bit of a concept album feel like TRC. just look at the names of the tracks, without even knowing the songs you can see from the titles there is some kind of theme(s)

i called the compilation "amendment thirteen"

[Edited 8/31/10 22:29pm]

Number23 said:

I very rarely see anyone's one-CD Emancipation containing the exact same songs as everyone elses. If this site proves anything, is that there's a loving home for every mongrel. I remember reading someone expressing their loathing for My Computer while at the same time asking why Mr Happy wasn't a single. That may be the definition of insanity to me, but it kind of proves Prince knows what he's doing. He created his own monster by being so versitible and songs you hate, I might really like.

I'm hearing you saying, "Prince makes something for everyone - you can always find a couple of songs that suits your individual taste on his albums," and I think that's a nice way of looking at it. But it used to be "everybody loves the entire Prince album and the single choices were obvious for all (except If I Was Your Girlfriend)."

So, anyway, that's what I wrote, "subsequent albums only contained a couple of good songs each," and then people can disagree about what songs were the good and bad ones and what should have been singles, like you say, yet you disagreed with that statement. I'm confused.

Or do you actually mean that, "Someone else likes what I consider bad, therefore it must all be good?"

[Edited 9/1/10 6:19am]

motherfunka said:

As far as the video, the parts with Mayte could have been filmed earlier. The other parts were obviously done around the same time as the televised Emancipation show, since the soundstage area was painted all white for both.

I suppose so. The other parts were reported as being in the process of wrapping up filming by the journalists who came to Paisley Park to interview on 11 November 1996, the day before the TV-transmission.

[Edited 9/1/10 5:15am]

unique said:

i called the compilation "amendment thirteen"

I think it's great that you put so much thought into your compilation. And I'm sure it plays great with a good flow from song to song.

2) one kiss at a time

3) soul sanctuary

4) curious child

5) dreaming about u

6) journey 2 the centre of your heart

8) i can't make u love me

15) the love we make

16) the holy river

18) she gave her angels

These songs would definitely also go on my compilation if I were to make one.

Okay, I caved in and made a one-disc Emancipation CD with the songs that I like the best.

I tried to vary the tracks according to tempo to keep it from getting boring, while at the same time making sure that the tracks sequed naturally and that the lyrics ended up telling a story from loneliness and desire to pure love.

Here's the result:

: Ultimate Emancipation

1. Right Back Here In My Arms (4:43)

2. New World (3:43)

3. Somebody's Somebody (4:43)

4. In This Bed Scream (5:40)

5. Curious Child (2:57)

6. Can't Make You Love Me (6:37)

7. Joint 2 Joint (7:52)

8. Dreamin' About U (3:52)

9. The Human Body (5:42)

10. PoomPoom (4:32)

11. Journey 2 The Center Of Your (4:14)

12. The Holy River (6:55)

13. One Kiss At A Time (4:41)

14. She Gave Her Angels (3:52)

15. Soul Sanctuary (4:41)

16. The Love We Make (4:39)

And yes, you read it right, the title track didn't make it.

It clocks in at 1 hour, 19 minutes and 31 seconds, meaning a CD crammed full of goodness.

My first choice as single would be New World b/w My Computer. My second single choice would be Journey 2 The Center Of Your b/w Let's Have A Baby.

Unfortunately, there was no room for Da Bang and Am The DJ.

scififilmnerd said:

.

[Edited 9/1/10 10:11am]

scififilmnerd said:

Number23 said:

I do appreciate your efforts in compliling these timelines - but your personal opinion cheapens the work. In my opinion.

Well, when I advertised that this "sequel" was coming, I said it was bound to be controversial. So it's not like opinions like yours were unexpected. But I didn't write anything for the sake of controversy, but because it was part of the story as I experienced it. But I don't think any writer will consider controversy a bad thing. All kinds of opinions are welcome. I'm just pleased that you have one and that you also appreciate my efforts.

Number23 said:

Well, if you're as narcissistic and egotistical as the artist you're writing about, then aye. A good journalist knows when to stay the fuck out of the story.

Oh, I wasn't done replying. But, okay, yes, a journalist's opinion should stay out of the way when reporting news, but this isn't a news piece. Like I've stated earlier, when I started writing this series of articles, I had an agenda which there was nothing objective about.

4.406 views!

Almost as many as Ultimate Gold Experience, but far from as many as Ultimate Come, indicating that Come remains the album from the 1993-1996 era that fans are the most curious about.

such a good read, as are all your ultimate threads.

all your effort and hard work are much appreciated.

now this makes me want to listen to the entire 3 CD

set again plus all it's outtakes and side stuff.

IstenSzek said:

such a good read, as are all your ultimate threads.

all your effort and hard work are much appreciated.

Thank you, Szexy.