scififilmnerd said:

Fenwick said:

times 1 billion.

I don't understand how anyone could read such an in depth, informative piece and respond by saying, "refrain from putting your personal perspective in here because it turns it into something amateurish".

Huh?

For something that means as much as this does to Scifi, I'd just assume him give us 50% facts and 50% opinions. That's what makes this site fun isn't it? Engaging in discussions/sharing opinions etc.

Either way, calling the posts tacky or bs or whatever some of you guys are calling it is really way out in left field.

Scifi, I'd like to echo some of the thoughts out here by thanking you for the thread and casting a vote for MORE of your opinions in the future, if you are so inclined.

Thanks to both of you for the support.

I suppose I could respond, "I don't like people who criticize writing when they're not writers,” to the critics, ha, ha. But you know, "everyone's a critic," and some of it I have taken to heart (and changed in the text) and other things not so much. All of the "thank you"s that's been posted counts as criticism, too, and all in all I'm quite pleased with the feedback that's been posted so far. Even the negative, because, quite frankly, I half expected worse when I wrote the epilogue.

[Edited 8/26/10 12:19pm]

the thing is, because it's obvious you took a lot of time to put this together, and because it's pretty much a factual peice, people took time to post to give constructive critisism to improve the peice

it's not like a lot of threads on the org or elsewhere that are pretty much opinion based, as people wouldn't then post such a comment, it's only because it's a pretty well put together factual peice that people give these comments. i'd say with a peice like this, post all your facts as you've done, let people comment, and then you can say xyz is shit or great etc underneath. the way to insert influence in a factual peice is to say "it's considered by many" or "arguably"

basically, people like what you've written, and are just trying to help by asking you to fix a tiny bit in a long post that they feel is a flaw that detracts and spoils the main text. if you know the org, you will know people will post "what a load of shite" and similar comments if you've posted shit. it's certainly not the case here

I enjoyed the read. Thank you.

Very interesting read/info! thanx!

unique said:

the thing is, because it's obvious you took a lot of time to put this together, and because it's pretty much a factual peice, people took time to post to give constructive critisism to improve the peice

it's not like a lot of threads on the org or elsewhere that are pretty much opinion based, as people wouldn't then post such a comment, it's only because it's a pretty well put together factual peice that people give these comments. i'd say with a peice like this, post all your facts as you've done, let people comment, and then you can say xyz is shit or great etc underneath. the way to insert influence in a factual peice is to say "it's considered by many" or "arguably"

basically, people like what you've written, and are just trying to help by asking you to fix a tiny bit in a long post that they feel is a flaw that detracts and spoils the main text. if you know the org, you will know people will post "what a load of shite" and similar comments if you've posted shit. it's certainly not the case here

True. And constructive critiscm is always welcome. Having been around on the org since 2003, I was actually like, "oh, that's not so bad," when I read Number23 and Skywalker's comments, because I think I've argued with them before about The Rainbow Children, years ago. )

I think my "non-objective comments" may stand out more this time, because there's not that many of them, really, and then, I suppose, those that are there may seem more like injections into an otherwise factual piece. There were more "non-objective" comments in past installments, but they didn't generate as much criticism - I suppose because they were mostly positive as I was trying to carry my excitement over to the reader...?

Not being as personally excited about Emancipation as I was about the Come and Gold era helps bring forth objectivity, but on the other hand, it was never my intention to write objective, factual pieces. That would have resultated in dry, un-engaging reading, I think. And who is truly objective anyway? Unlike Prince, I don't believe in there being only one truth, "not as you see it, but as it is," as he told a journalist in 1996. Everybody has their own experience of "the truth"/an opinion, and with this series of articles I've shared mine. But unlike Prince, I don't think, "ain't no room 2 disagree," ha. ha. So, of course I took the criticism, where I could see the point - like yours, to heart.

When I started writing the first articles, I obviously had an agenda, that has in no way been hidden. It's in the headline: "Prince vs. WB: The Fans Lost."

I wanted to point out that although the end results (Come, Gold, Chaos And Disorder) were maybe disappointing to some, they actually started out as masterpieces. I thought people needed to know that.

And of course, the ultimate dream is for people to hear those albums as the masterpieces, they were originally conceived as. I wanted to share the love.

So yeah, I had an agenda. Nothing objective about that.

I really have no agenda for the Emacipation article, but the story of that era brings the series of articles to a perfect close - I started out telling about disappointing releases and the horrible Game Boyz, and at the end of the Emancipation era, I'm back at that, bringing some closure to the story I set out to tell. Neat, huh?

you need to write "new power soul: the full horror - the story of a nightmare"

unique said:

you need to write "new power soul: the full horror - the story of a nightmare"

unique said:

you need to write "new power soul: the full horror - the story of a nightmare"

Obviously you are joking but I would like to read that article. I'm guessing that there may not be much to write about as it seems in the post WB era there are a lot less facts (recording dates, recording personnel, behind the scenes type stories, outtakes) that have leaked out. It's kind of funny that the newest music Prince has recorded is the stuff that we know the least about. I think if an attempt was made to write anything about his post Emancipation albums it would be very dry and boring.

rialb said:

It's kind of funny that the newest music Prince has recorded is the stuff that we know the least about. I think if an attempt was made to write anything about his post Emancipation albums it would be very dry and boring.

Yeah. Not much background is really known about his post Warners recordings. I mean, much of my 1996 coverage of Emancipation about when tracks were recorded is admittedly speculation/guess-work, and later releases are even less documented, except maybe for Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic in 1999, as that was covered pretty well in Alex Hahn's book and Days Of Wild.

I think one would have to interview the people that was around him to get info, but would they be willing to talk? Would they even know anything? Chronicfreeze knew nothing. Not everyone he's worked with took notes, like I think Susan Rogers and Eric Leeds did, bless them.

But, you know, Per Nielsen covered the years he found interesting. I've tried to cover the additional years I found interesting. Someone else who finds what came next interesting would have to write about that, because I didn't find it interesting enough to want to write about it.

Maybe I'll write something about the development of Mayte's album down the line, like I wrote about Exodus, if inspiration strikes me. I like Mayte. We'll see.

Hey this is fantastic. Emancipation (especially disc 2) is my second fave Prince CD and I loved reading this. One thing I would like to add, in the interview Prince did with Oprah, Oprah asked him about his love for Mayte. She said, "What does she do for you that you didn't have by yourself?" and Prince responds, "She makes it easier to talk to God..."

That always stuck with me. I thought it was beautiful.

UPDATE: Just added "She Gave Her Angels was probably also recorded in June, as the lyrics mention that month. The track featured musical similarities to the unreleased Empty Room," to the Inspired By Death chapter and moved the track from April to June in the Chronological Emancipation Recordings list.

scififilmnerd said:

rialb said:

It's kind of funny that the newest music Prince has recorded is the stuff that we know the least about. I think if an attempt was made to write anything about his post Emancipation albums it would be very dry and boring.

Yeah. Not much background is really known about his post Warners recordings. I mean, much of my 1996 coverage of Emancipation about when tracks were recorded is admittedly speculation/guess-work, and later releases are even less documented, except maybe for Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic in 1999, as that was covered pretty well in Alex Hahn's book and Days Of Wild.

I think one would have to interview the people that was around him to get info, but would they be willing to talk? Would they even know anything? Chronicfreeze knew nothing. Not everyone he's worked with took notes, like I think Susan Rogers and Eric Leeds did, bless them.

But, you know, Per Nielsen covered the years he found interesting. I've tried to cover the additional years I found interesting. Someone else who finds what came next interesting would have to write about that, because I didn't find it interesting enough to want to write about it.

Maybe I'll write something about the development of Mayte's album down the line, like I wrote about Exodus, if inspiration strikes me. I like Mayte. We'll see.

I would kill for that! Please dig deep for the time and inspiration

djfine said:

Hey! Where's your Ultimate Emacipation tracklist!

Here it is:

: Emancipation Disc 4

1. Da Bang (3:19)

2. PoomPoom (4:32)

3. She Gave Her Angels (3:52)

4. Slave 2 The System (3:05)

5. 2020 (2:05)

6. Livin' 2 Die (3:34)

7. Starfish And Coffee (3:18) - 1995 version

8. Feelgood (4:06)

9. Van Gogh (5:59) - 1996 version

10. Journey 2 The Center Of Your (4:14)

11. Am The DJ (4:47)

12. 2morrow (4:13)

13. Nothing Left 2 Give (3:00)

14. 'll Never B Another Fool (3:11)

15. Goodbye (4:34)

I figured instead of messing with 's carefully arranged "harmony and balance" and do a "best of Emancipation", I'd just make a fourth disc with all of the outtakes instead.

I put a lot of thought into the sequencing and I think I've ended up with a splendid CD with a recommended track order that really works. (For me, anyway. )

So, okay, it's 15 songs, not 12, but the running time ís 57:56, which is almost an hour "to the minute."

[Edited 8/27/10 10:28am]

Another facinating insight, thank you so much

I feel sad all over again reading about the death of his son, and astounded that even in those turbulent times, he carried on making music and putting it out there.

Prince is often derided on the org for being greedy and self-serving, this post underlines the contrary, generosity despite adversity.

Great read, as always. That must have been hell to research.

I like how you incorporate the liner notes and interviews.

HamsterHuey said:

Great read, as always. That must have been hell to research.

Thank you.

The research part was frustrating at times, but then the people I've thanked came to my aid, so mostly it was fun.

unkleg said:

Another facinating insight, thank you so much

I feel sad all over again reading about the death of his son, and astounded that even in those turbulent times, he carried on making music and putting it out there.

Prince is often derided on the org for being greedy and self-serving, this post underlines the contrary, generosity despite adversity.

Thank you.

I hadn't thought of it the way you put it, "generosity despite adversity." That's very kind, but I suppose that's why it's always nice with another perspective.

[Edited 8/28/10 7:51am]

scififilmnerd said:

Sincere appreciation for your work and words. Fantastic reading (all of them). I spent about three hours reading your stuff yesterday morning and wanted to say thank you.

This is an era of Prince I will always miss (COME, TGE, Etc). What a slamming band he had!

chickenman said:

Sincere appreciation for your work and words. Fantastic reading (all of them). I spent about three hours reading your stuff yesterday morning and wanted to say thank you.

This is an era of Prince I will always miss (COME, TGE, Etc). What a slamming band he had!

Thank you for the kind words.

I thought the NPG (Sonny, Michael, Tommy, Morris and Mayte) was great, too.

I wasn't impressed by the band he put together for Emancipation.

Great work, SciFi.

And, thanks for solving the mystery of Somebody's Somebody for me. It carries P's old signature guitar tone, which had all but vanished by that time in his career. And, isn't anywhere else on the album, as I recall.

I question where the information that "Stone" is really titled "Nothing Left 2 Give" when he doesn't say that in the song at all. He says "Nothing left but stone" but does not say "Nothing left to give" in the song.

Spinlight said:

I question where the information that "Stone" is really titled "Nothing Left 2 Give" when he doesn't say that in the song at all. He says "Nothing left but stone" but does not say "Nothing left to give" in the song.

That's the title that was reported as the correct title by the Uptown guys after all the other titles had initially been reported. It's true, he doesn't sing that. Maybe it's poetic license? He doesn't sing 20Ten on 20Ten, either.

scififilmnerd said:

Spinlight said:

I question where the information that "Stone" is really titled "Nothing Left 2 Give" when he doesn't say that in the song at all. He says "Nothing left but stone" but does not say "Nothing left to give" in the song.

That's the title that was reported as the correct title by the Uptown guys after all the other titles had initially been reported. It's true, he doesn't sing that. Maybe it's poetic license? He doesn't sing 20Ten on 20Ten, either.

Fair enough, lol. Just odd way to title it.

Spinlight said:

Fair enough, lol. Just odd way to title it.

I think it's odd, too. That's why I noted the other titles as well.

I suspect that someone talked to Sandra St. Victor and that it was her who supplied the title.

thanks for this very interesting post, really enjoyed it!

Have to say though, and I hadn't read realised this before, that I got a bit upset by reading the part about Mayte pretending to be pregnant for the video shoot; must have been really awkward for her .....

scififilmnerd said:

chickenman said:

Sincere appreciation for your work and words. Fantastic reading (all of them). I spent about three hours reading your stuff yesterday morning and wanted to say thank you.

This is an era of Prince I will always miss (COME, TGE, Etc). What a slamming band he had!

Thank you for the kind words.

I thought the NPG (Sonny, Michael, Tommy, Morris and Mayte) was great, too.

I wasn't impressed by the band he put together for Emancipation.

What's frustrating for me is that I did not get to see Prince live until the pre-release parties for Emancipation. Kirky J is a terrible drummer. I can't imagine going from Michael B to Kirky J.

I got to know Michael B around 1997 or 1998 through a mutual friend. Michael B is one of the coolest cats you will ever meet. I asked him if he'd give me drums lessons and he smiled and said... he wouldn't give me lesson, but we should get together and jam sometime. We eneded up at his studio near Dinkytown in MPLS. I had him play a bunch of Prince stuff that I like (Endorphione Machine being at the top of that list). He and I chatted about his Prince days. Man, such great stories! I ended up dropping him off at his Mom's house. Such a cool day!

eelco said:

I got a bit upset by reading the part about Mayte pretending to be pregnant for the video shoot; must have been really awkward for her .....

I agree. That can't have been a good experience for her.

[Edited 8/29/10 7:39am]

chickenman said:

I got to know Michael B around 1997 or 1998 through a mutual friend. (...) He and I chatted about his Prince days. Man, such great stories!

Cool story. You should've asked him if he knew/had the 1993 Come album configurations.

Oh, well. Maybe next time?

Great reading, thanks!

I hope a thread will come all about the Truth. I don't have it except for one or two tracks I think.

Would really like to know more about the whole project.

But keep it up. These threads make coming to the org worthwhile.

Bohemian67 said:

I hope a thread will come all about the Truth. I don't have it except for one or two tracks I think.

Would really like to know more about the whole project.

But keep it up. These threads make coming to the org worthwhile.

Thank you.

Well, two tracks from The Truth is really all you need so long as it's Don't Play Me and Comeback.

Okay, okay. Welcome 2 The Dawn (Acoustic Version) is alright, too.

There's not that much history to tell about The Truth, really. It probably started out as the acoustic album Heart in 1994, but kept that album so close to his vest that no one knows what was on it. Then, in 1996, decided to replace some of the songs with new ones, like 3rd , One Of Your Tears, Fascination, Man In A Uniform, Circle Of Amour, Comeback and the horrid Animal Kingdom, leaving just The Truth, Don't Play Me, Dionne, The Other Side Of The Pillow and Welcome 2 The Dawn as possible leftovers from Heart.

If you ask me, I think he shelved Heart (or ""?) and started completely from scratch with The Truth.

And there you have it, "Ultimate The Truth".

UPDATE: Just removed references to Lotusflow3r.com from Ultimate Come, Ultimate The Undertaker and Ultimate The Gold Experience. Gotta keep these things ajour.