The biggest problem Prince has is not his current musical output. Prince is a progressive artist. Meaning he is always looking for new avenue of expression in his music. That includes incorporating the musical past and well as keeping an ear on contemporary music. He is not particularly interested in creating another 1999 or Purple Rain, however a large portion of his fans cannot move forward with him.

If you’re a fan that is still listening to LoveSexy or ATWIAD or a regular basis you can’t help to be anchored in the past. Those albums were the creation of a young genius just learning the ropes. What we have now is a mature genius who knows more about music composition then he knew back then.

He’s moved from being experimental to being a craftsmen. If you are disappointed with Lotusflower it has more to do with unrealistic expectations then it does with the music.

Who in the musical universe could have created that 3 disc collection other than Prince?

tricky99 said:

Hmm... Ok, I'll bite. Do you really think that Lotusflow3r is 3 albums worth of top quality, well crafted music?

I like about half of lotusflower, 3 tracks from mplsound and none of elixer (though I don't mind princes vocals in the title track).

Condense that onto one disc and it's back to being an 8 track album worth of decent tunes like in the early 80's. And if it had been released by Warners, that's exactly what would have been released. The rest would have been left where it belongs. Bsides and out takes.

He's just safe and boring. He can still experiment, PFUnk Glasscutter and Colonised Mind proved that. I'd much rather have his experimental contributions than plastic, safe, mor prince.

Erik
[Edited 2/4/10 9:11am]

erik319 said:

I pretty sure those songs you value aren't the same songs others value. Your particular taste does not define what's "good". Prince does not have to be experimental for me to enjoy his songs. Do you only enjoy music u consider "experimental" or do u only hold Prince to that standard?

I do. I maintain that if any other artist, specificaly a new artist, put out this set people would be freaking out. Yet, it's Prince. Par for the course genius. It is top quality, and well crafted, but people are used to it, and expect it from Prince.





Semantics and selling. I don't care how it's broken up or presented, I just want the songs. You are right, Warner Bros. would have packaged it the way you suggest, they do it because it's easier to market, and easier for people to digest. I don't care about that.



I am confused by the term plastic. The albums all seem quite organic to me. Even the electric MPLSound is a bit warm (which I wish it wasn't). I hear you about wanting Prince to be more experimental and artistic. I think some Lotusflow3r is, some isn't. Either way, it's quality music and music that no one else can/would do.
[Edited 2/4/10 9:45am]

tricky99 said:

Heed your own words.

tricky99 said:

AMEN!!!!!

tricky99 said:

I don't think people who still listen to older albums on a regular basis are anchored in the past. This can go for most musicians and artists. I listen to most of Stevie Wonders earliest albums. The albums from the 80's on had some good stuff here n there. Quality wise Prince's best work over all was his earlier music, sorry, it just is. And albums after that had good songs here n there some more than others.

I'm one that sticks by my belief that Prince had a very defining and unique sound coming out of Minneapolis, there was a subculture he created. After the 80's it was lost for the most part.

I love ATWIAD LOVE IT!!!! Yet I do enjoy LotusFlow3r. Plus I don't listen to Prince music ALL the time. just a whole lot.

Even a genius can make mistakes, wrong decisions, and bad choices. Even think 2 much of himself and think the world is supposed to eat it up. Prince is still some of that person that thought he could direct a film UTCM and not listen to WB or crafted directors and think he could do a better job. ie SOTT

"Prince fans stuck in the past"...
nosense.

if I may rate his output since 1995:

The Gold Experience (10)
Chaos & Disorder (6)
Emancipation (8)
Crystal Ball (8)
The Truth (6)
Kamasutra (0)
Newpower Soul (4)
The Vault... Old Friends 4 Sale (6)
Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic (6)
Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic (7)
The Rainbow Children (9)
N.E.W.S. (2)
ONA Piano (3)
ONA... Live (2)
Musicology (7)
The Chocolate Invasion (6)
Slaughterhouse (6)
3121 (6)
Planet Earth (5)
Indigo Nights (2)
Lotus Flower (8)
MPLSound (8)

Not too impressive.

Prince has made great songs since 1995, but the latest great album was: The Gold Experience 15 years ago,

you may say there's something wrong with my taste, I just don't think so...
[Edited 2/4/10 10:43am]

I agree. It almost seems that when Prince releases a new album, people excpect it to be another Purple Rain. & feel cheated that it isn't! Some Prince fans are very ungreatful, they have all these fantastic albums, so much more than most artists. They have so many bootlegs you probably couldn't document them all & are still not satisfied! Take Planet Earth, the album was given away for FREE & yet people felt somewhat cheated by it. That it was a waste of their time etc. there just isn't any need. If you don't like an album that's fair enough, if you wanna post about how you don't like the album then that's fair enough, but some people act as if all copies of the album should be burnt & generally over react over the quality of the music.

Prince is uninspired with songwriting because he's been doing it for so long & must have a very difficult time coming up with new concepts due to the sheer amount of music he has released in the past. To expect someone who has been as prolific as Prince to deliver outstanded music is asking far too much. Many songwriting BANDS, with 4 or more members lose their creative touch after just a couple of albums. It's a miricle Prince is still making music at all really!

I've said this numerous times on another account that I forgot the password to, but many fans associate Prince's 80's albums with good memories from when they were young & free, therefore NOTHING Prince releases afterwards will even come close to their standards because those songs hold so many great memories for them, they have sentimental value that new songs don't have. That's what I think anyway.

He gave us 3 CD's of quality music for a low price last year & many weren't satisfied, so if lotusflow3r didn't reach your standards of what Prince music should be now, then nothing will!

thedance said:

Ah, subjectivity.

TheScouser said:

I disagree, MOST PRINCE FANS, have huge favorites outside of Purple Rain such as Parade ATWIAD SOTT CONTRoversy etc as well as B side music and Protege music, so most Prince FANS aren't judging his music based on Purple Rain

OldFriends4Sale said:

Agree with this point. However, MOST PRINCE FANS are judging Prince against his past and their own past and personal favorites. That is the catch 22. Everyone wants something different from Prince. "Classic Prince" is something different to everyone. In the age of the internet, how will anyone ever agree on his new material? They won't. Live and let enjoy. If "Dance 4 Me" is my favorite Prince song of all time, pat me on the back and envy my enjoyment. No need to criticize my taste or judge me because of it.
[Edited 2/4/10 11:13am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well said. For me, nothing can touch Dirty Mind, Camille, Sign o The times and Gold Experience. It's not even as if I am only favouring one era.

As a fan, I have every right to think an album is sub par if I think it is. Just like the OP has every right to think differently. I wouldn't dream of starting a thread stating my opinions and then dissmissing people who have the decency to respond with their own equally valid, differing views!

tricky99 said:

excellent post - and something that needed to be said in here

skywalker said:

sure, I am subjective, not objective.....

who's objective / non-subjective when it comes to a Prince review?

Rolling Stone magazine/ the proffessionel reviewers > are they "objective"???

A lot of fans fell off the Prince-train in 1988-89, and more fell off with Emancipation....

Prince is simply not taken that serious anymore by the mainstream - and I think most fans agrees to the "fact" that Prince hasn't released a brilliant album in a very very looong time.


[Edited 2/4/10 11:30am]

skywalker said:

But isn't that what the author of this thread done?

And when we say most prince fans, what past of Prince are they going by? many are just going back as far as 2005, some favor the 1990's other 1980's

I LOVE Ur Gonna C Me, I LOVE the last 5 minutes of Minneapolis Sound but I also LOVE Around the World in a Day, I shouldn't be criticized for that and told I'm living in my nostalgia or that I don't appreciate his newer stuff.

Some replied about people reliving their youth as far as the 80's are concerned and that is a very narrow view point because Prince fans than ranged from 14-60

I agree with u prince is still making fantastic music but I do believe he is playing too safe. He needs to take some heavy risks and turn the music business
upside down.
Prince is too VERSATILE and I find that some of the org members are too critical
maybe because it doesn't fit their genre.
prince versatility is what grabs me the listener so much attention.
most albums contain a similar vibe through the album at least with prince
its funk jazz fusion soul minneaapolis sound experimental etc....

thedance said:

Some of that had to do with a lot of distractions in Prince's life,
did he put out some good songs in the at mid 90's period yet, and we all know Prince was dealing with money problems, WB-Slave on the face, personal issues, ummmm his inner circle changed drastically from 1988 and I know as a man that can have a huge affect on my person(just like people who after leaving high school or college have social/personal/emotional valley's as a result of change)
So all that can affect his output, and decisions. Sometimes too much change can be distracting, I know it was 4 me

Handcuffs said:

But Prince fans have done that from the beginning: Dirty Mind over Prince, SOTT or ATWIAD etc etc

I think the mainstream does take Prince seriously. He isn't the punchline he was in the 90's, nor was he ever the punchline that Madonna and MJ had/have been.

Also, I hope you don't think that "most fans" are represented here at the org. That said, plenty of fans think his new stuff is brilliant. Look, around.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Point made. I think where it gets tricky when there is no room for debating "facts" that are really just mass thinking. One example being that all of the 80's Prince music is untouchable or better than everything since.

ah, I give up, I'm non-english speaking and can't handle the discussion with you, Skywalker.

but..... speaking of brilliant Prince-albums:

I still believe: Prince's output 1980-1988 is FAR better than what has been released since The Gold Experience, 1995-2009.

And I think most people in their right minds agrees with this too.

skywalker said:

right, there was to be no emotions tied when judging music,
I think I Hate U tears up Ronnie Talk 2 Russia, but I can still judge the or appreciate them based on the music genre; Ronnie having that New Wave edge I Hate having more of an RnB edge

Music 2 me is timeless, even though we know there are sounds and styles developed in certain periods. Which is why I hate when people refer to a song as sounding 'dated'
[Edited 2/4/10 11:58am]

I totally feel the same way. I have no problem with "visiting" an album or song that is 20 or 30 years old, but I do have an issue when someone compares his old work to his new work.

Thats a subjective view.

Here's another one:

You cannot expect an artists to be innovative and groundbreaking for 30 years, and i am fine when Prince settles with 'craftmanship'. But for craftmanship you need strong compositions and not lame / generic arrangements.

You see were i am pointing at?

You think people shouldnt be too critical about Princes recent music because he offers 'craftmanship' in your opinion.

I think he doesnt offer real craftmanship and dont see why I should hold back to be critical about that.
But that doesnt make me a 'hater' or 'stuck in the past'. I am still here because I love his 'old' music and recognize the potential he has.

Riverpoet31 said:

You've nailed it. There's nothing wrong with being a craftsman. The notion that Prince has it in him to innovate like he did in the 80s is ludicrious. But that doesn't mean we can't expect him to write good songs. Sadly, they're in short supply these days.

Why?

To me that sounds like a form of self-censorship: like you are saying 'we', the 'fans', automatically should assume his newer work won't be good as his older work, so we shouldnt be too critical about it.

That goes beyond me.

If anything, his recent music should be first of all judged on his own merits, just like i judge recent music by other artists on its own merits.

So when too many songs on MPLSound remind of the generic R&B shit by the likes of the Black Eyed Peas, does it make make a 'hater'? or does it make me 'living in the past'?

NOPE

I simply make clear that I dont like that type of music, and that (knowing what he is capable of) he is simply 'underachieving'.

Do the complainers really think Purple Rain or SOTT would be a hit today? In the circumstances that Prince is in now?

It is all time relative. Times change as do people. YOu could take a perfect clone of Prince from 1984 and drop him and his work in any decade before or after the 80s and you would not get the same results as in 1984. That means it is impossible to intelligently - and constantly - weigh his newer work on an old purple scale. TO do so is to not see new music in the proper chronological and spatial context in which it was created and intended.

Look at whatever is the number album at this very moment and ask yourself is it relaly better than what Prince is doing. Using the most mundane measure of music - the Billboard charts - as a rule, we would have to assume Lady GaGa are better than Prince right now. If you actually believe that, you probably have not understand half of the words I have written here thus far so you may as well go back to your cartoons.
[Edited 2/4/10 12:20pm]

Riverpoet31 said:

It may not make you a hater, but it would make you an amatuer IF you dont realize that the Black Eyed Peas - like Outkast before them - and DAngelo before them - is doing early 80s Prince.

Brofie said:

You need to get off this kick of thinking you're smarter than the rest of us, pal. I'm willing to be it's not true.