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PrintableIt may not make you a hater, but it would make you an amatuer IF you dont realize that the Black Eyed Peas - like Outkast before them - and DAngelo before them - is doing early 80s Prince.
That brings me to the question: why should Prince 'ape' artists that offer cheap, banal rip-offs of the great, innovative music he originally created? Any reason for that? | |
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TwiliteKid said: Riverpoet31 said: Thats a subjective view. Here's another one: You cannot expect an artists to be innovative and groundbreaking for 30 years, and i am fine when Prince settles with 'craftmanship'. But for craftmanship you need strong compositions and not lame / generic arrangements. You see were i am pointing at? You think people shouldnt be too critical about Princes recent music because he offers 'craftmanship' in your opinion. I think he doesnt offer real craftmanship and dont see why I should hold back to be critical about that. But that doesnt make me a 'hater' or 'stuck in the past'. I am still here because I love his 'old' music and recognize the potential he has. You've nailed it. There's nothing wrong with being a craftsman. The notion that Prince has it in him to innovate like he did in the 80s is ludicrious. But that doesn't mean we can't expect him to write good songs. Sadly, they're in short supply these days. Really? How are the "good" songs in short supply? List all those "bad" songs from his last offering. And because its not the greatest song he has ever written surely doesn't make it a "bad" song. I hear shit on the radio every day that comes no where near what prince offers on his most predestrian of songs. | |
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I think people need to stop separating the Prince of the past compared to the Prince of today. He's the same man. Yes his values have changed, but I for one will always support Prince no matter what(even if some of his choices are..=\)
People like to come on here and bitch about how he's a JW or he's not making songs like he was in the past. It really doesn't bother me if they do that,everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think people need to start focusing on the GOOD music he is still making like Colonized Mind, Dreamer and the Crimson and Clover remake. I'd rather listen to those 3 songs over any modern music being played on the radio today. | |
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I think people need to start focusing on the GOOD music he is still making like Colonized Mind, Dreamer and the Crimson and Clover remake. I'd rather listen to those 3 songs over any modern music being played on the radio today.
I don't | |
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how many ways can you work the P | |
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Really? How are the "good" songs in short supply? List all those "bad" songs from his last offering. And because its not the greatest song he has ever written surely doesn't make it a "bad" song. I hear shit on the radio every day that comes no where near what prince offers on his most predestrian of songs.
But why do you limit yourself to (IMO) shit on the radio: like The Black Eyed Peas, Pink, Lil Wayne and Lady Ga Ga? Like what is played on mainstream radio is representative for the state of music these days. There are numerous of great artists who arent backed by a big promotion budget and million-dollar video's who are actually far better then the 'things' you find in the charts. It a business, you know... But hey, when it comes to Prince i am a bit more critical then you: Most Black Eyed Peas songs are allready bad, but when he tries to copy them on a song like Chocolate Box, it really gets cringeworthy. | |
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Well, as usual, I agree with Tricky99 and Skywalker.
I've written about "hearing in the Now" many times here, and I've come 2 only one conclusion... You'd likely find in any art form, and with any artist with a lengthy, vast body of work, that the same percentages you find here, of those who experience the current work with a fresh perspective, and those who don't. 'Lotusflow3r' is a fantastic album... the songs, the flow, the instruments, the recording, the voice. Stands next 2 any Prince album, easily. It's just perspective. It's very difficult 2 separate the impact, etc., from when we first heard '1999', 'Sign O' The Times', 'Lovesexy', etc., and from we listen 2 an album now. Plus, we don't listen 2 albums the same way. I sat down, and listened 2 'Lotusflow3r' like I used 2 listen 2 Prince's albums... loud, through real stereo system, from beginning 2 end. The music IS fresh, the recording and tones of the guitar is perfect, along with voice and all other instruments. Writing is there, diversity... "He's a musician's musician..." |
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Your posts are stuck in the past tricky99, I'm sure I've seen you post this one a million times before. | |
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tricky99 said: TwiliteKid said: You've nailed it. There's nothing wrong with being a craftsman. The notion that Prince has it in him to innovate like he did in the 80s is ludicrious. But that doesn't mean we can't expect him to write good songs. Sadly, they're in short supply these days. Really? How are the "good" songs in short supply? List all those "bad" songs from his last offering. And because its not the greatest song he has ever written surely doesn't make it a "bad" song. I hear shit on the radio every day that comes no where near what prince offers on his most predestrian of songs. Since when is the only music available the stuff you hear on the radio? I haven't listened to the radio in years, and my iPod is filled with better stuff than the work Prince is doing these days. Sounds like you need to put in some effort and dig a little deeper than stuff the radio tries to force feed us. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Really? How are the "good" songs in short supply? List all those "bad" songs from his last offering. And because its not the greatest song he has ever written surely doesn't make it a "bad" song. I hear shit on the radio every day that comes no where near what prince offers on his most predestrian of songs.
But why do you limit yourself to (IMO) shit on the radio: like The Black Eyed Peas, Pink, Lil Wayne and Lady Ga Ga? Like what is played on mainstream radio is representative for the state of music these days. There are numerous of great artists who arent backed by a big promotion budget and million-dollar video's who are actually far better then the 'things' you find in the charts. It a business, you know... But hey, when it comes to Prince i am a bit more critical then you: Most Black Eyed Peas songs are allready bad, but when he tries to copy them on a song like Chocolate Box, it really gets cringeworthy. Oops. I see you've already made the point I just tried to articulate. There's plenty of great music out there, if you're willing to look for it. | |
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'Lotusflow3r' is a fantastic album... the songs, the flow, the instruments, the recording, the voice. Stands next 2 any Prince album, easily.
I really disagree with you Giovanni. Prince is trying to play 'fancy' on the guitar and productionwise, but he cannot hide the fact that the songwriting on Lotusflower is really below par, let alone his urgency to create great music. You seem to let fool yourself by a lot of 'window dressing': the songwriting on an obligational album like 'The Vault.. Old friends for sale' is stronger then on this forced turd. | |
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Why are they stuck in the past? I doubt that any of them are running around wearing butterfly collars and double knit bellbottoms. Could they be stuck in the past because they don't like a new release from Prince? No, that's called having an opinion of your own and tastes of your own that don't change just because Prince may be in some particular mood at the time.
When people buy DVDs of a particular TV show, most folks usually buy an older season rather than some of the later seasons. Why? Because the new seasons before the show was cancelled usually suck. Well, music is no different. An individual has a mind of their own and doesn't have to change their own tastes to match an artist's taste. . . . [Edited 2/4/10 13:38pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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 I swear I'm gonna call the PET(D)A! 
The reason people still listen to Prince's older music is because it was positively AWESOME!!! That's a testament to his talent and creativity because greatness withstands the test of time. I know he thinks "time is a trick" but the only trick will be...if in 10-20 years anyone other than a few Fams even remember that LotusFlow3r ever existed! 
No one wants another "Purple Rain" and after hearing what Trey Songz has been allowed to do with the music from "Purple Rain", I can say that's for damn sure! 
What we want is something that we WANT to listen to. After hearing all of the "LotusFlow3r" trilogy, with the exception of "Dance 4 Me" I simply had no desire to hear the songs again. That doesn't mean I'm stuck in the past. It just means I didn't like his latest effort and I can and will say so!  I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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vainandy said: Why are they stuck in the past? I doubt that any of them are running around wearing butterfly collars and double knit bellbottoms. Could they be stuck in the past because they don't like a new release from Prince? No, that's called having an opinion of your own and tastes of your own that don't change just because Prince may be in some particular mood at the time.
When people buy DVDs of a particular TV show, most folks usually buy an older season rather than some of the later seasons. Why? Because the new seasons before the show was cancelled usually suck. Well, music is no different. An individual has a mind of their own and doesn't have to change their own tastes to match an artist's taste. . . . [Edited 2/4/10 13:38pm] This comment made by a man who doesn't like any music made after 1987.
I don't have a problem with people having an opinion of liking or not liking something. It ticks me off when they compare the old to the new. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
U 'gon make me shake my doo loose! http://www.twitter.com/nivlekbrad | |
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daPrettyman said: vainandy said: Why are they stuck in the past? I doubt that any of them are running around wearing butterfly collars and double knit bellbottoms. Could they be stuck in the past because they don't like a new release from Prince? No, that's called having an opinion of your own and tastes of your own that don't change just because Prince may be in some particular mood at the time.
When people buy DVDs of a particular TV show, most folks usually buy an older season rather than some of the later seasons. Why? Because the new seasons before the show was cancelled usually suck. Well, music is no different. An individual has a mind of their own and doesn't have to change their own tastes to match an artist's taste. . . . [Edited 2/4/10 13:38pm] This comment made by a man who doesn't like any music made after 1987.
I don't have a problem with people having an opinion of liking or not liking something. It ticks me off when they compare the old to the new. You're wrong. It's after 1984 that I like a lot less music from most R&B artists in general, not 1987.
In the early 1990s, I loved house music but after around 1994 or so, that's about it. If folks can't throwdown, they need to sit down because Andy refuses to go back to the days of the classical music era when everything was slow and dull (like 99% of R&B artists have done), so the way I see it, people that like current music on the radio are the ones living in the past. I always wanted to move forward and keep jamming, not backwards to the days of slow and dull.
. . . [Edited 2/4/10 14:09pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: 'Lotusflow3r' is a fantastic album... the songs, the flow, the instruments, the recording, the voice. Stands next 2 any Prince album, easily.
I really disagree with you Giovanni. Prince is trying to play 'fancy' on the guitar and productionwise, but he cannot hide the fact that the songwriting on Lotusflower is really below par, let alone his urgency to create great music. You seem to let fool yourself by a lot of 'window dressing': the songwriting on an obligational album like 'The Vault.. Old friends for sale' is stronger then on this forced turd. No problem with disagreeing, but I really don't hear the production nor the guitar as being "fancy" in any way... In fact, I thought the production, instrumentation, and recording were all refreshingly simple. I don't understand what you mean by "window dressing". This is a very musical album. "He's a musician's musician..." |
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Well, to me its an album full with mostly mediocre songwriting, on which he seems to use his 'sophisticated' guitar-work and pointless TRC-lite instrumentation to hide there is no substance underneath.
Lotusflower will be forgotten 5 years from now on, it will be not be labeled as some artistic revival (which it isnt of course), its just one of the other Prince albums in a long row showing him underachieving. I sometimetimes get the idea that people here 'wanting' Prince to be 'relevant' praise albums like The Rainbow Children and Lotusflower in a blind haze. Those albums simply dont deserve it, they are miles away from the qualities of a 1999 or Sign of the Times. And with a mediocre Lotusflower you get a pisspoor MPLsound, which has actually nothing to do with the qualities of the original Minneapolis sound. | |
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Just listen first to Automatic and after that to Chocolate Box.
If you cant tell the difference, youre no Prince fan. | |
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vainandy said: You're wrong. It's after 1984 that I like a lot less music from most R&B artists in general, not 1987.
In the early 1990s, I loved house music but after around 1994 or so, that's about it. If folks can't throwdown, they need to sit down because Andy refuses to go back to the days of the classical music era when everything was slow and dull (like 99% of R&B artists have done), so the way I see it, people that like current music on the radio are the ones living in the past. I always wanted to move forward and keep jamming, not backwards to the days of slow and dull.
. . . [Edited 2/4/10 14:09pm] I feel ya! **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
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Riverpoet31 said: Just listen first to Automatic and after that to Chocolate Box.
If you cant tell the difference, youre no Prince fan. "Automatic" = struggling musician trying to make an impact in music "Chocolate Box" = a rich 50+ year old musician relaxing and doing his own thing. **--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••--**--••**--••-
U 'gon make me shake my doo loose! http://www.twitter.com/nivlekbrad | |
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Handcuffs said: I agree with u prince is still making fantastic music but I do believe he is playing too safe. He needs to take some heavy risks and turn the music business
upside down. Prince is too VERSATILE and I find that some of the org members are too critical maybe because it doesn't fit their genre. prince versatility is what grabs me the listener so much attention. most albums contain a similar vibe through the album at least with prince its funk jazz fusion soul minneaapolis sound experimental etc.... I agree with you, he does need to take big risks, just like he used to, but ironically that's the thing we all know he needs to do and that's why we look at the past. He makes music now that other artists would be pretty pleased with but at nearly 52 Prince is unable to turn music upside down because he is such an expert now. Revolutionary art often stems from the unknown and tell me what he doesn't know about funk/pop/rock? could Prince do a grime record? unlikely as we know what happened when he tried to dabble with rap even when he was in his 30s..... I think we should just enjoy what we enjoy and stop expecting the second coming of SOTT cos sadly that is never gonna happen |
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tricky99 said: The biggest problem Prince has is not his current musical output. Prince is a progressive artist. Meaning he is always looking for new avenue of expression in his music. That includes incorporating the musical past and well as keeping an ear on contemporary music. He is not particularly interested in creating another 1999 or Purple Rain, however a large portion of his fans cannot move forward with him.
If you’re a fan that is still listening to LoveSexy or ATWIAD or a regular basis you can’t help to be anchored in the past. Those albums were the creation of a young genius just learning the ropes. What we have now is a mature genius who knows more about music composition then he knew back then. He’s moved from being experimental to being a craftsmen. If you are disappointed with Lotusflower it has more to do with unrealistic expectations then it does with the music. Who in the musical universe could have created that 3 disc collection other than Prince? You have a TRICKY icon...c'mon now. I don't WANT to move forward with him if this is what he is offering. There are lots of other solid artists who keep pushing forward. The reason I like his older stuff is because it rarely SOUNDS old or dated. But since I know it pretty well it only pops up on a playlist from time to time. If he needs to forget what he has learned (as you posit) to make good music again...them bring on messed up chords and original beats baby! |
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Giovanni777 said: Riverpoet31 said: I really disagree with you Giovanni. Prince is trying to play 'fancy' on the guitar and productionwise, but he cannot hide the fact that the songwriting on Lotusflower is really below par, let alone his urgency to create great music. You seem to let fool yourself by a lot of 'window dressing': the songwriting on an obligational album like 'The Vault.. Old friends for sale' is stronger then on this forced turd. No problem with disagreeing, but I really don't hear the production nor the guitar as being "fancy" in any way... In fact, I thought the production, instrumentation, and recording were all refreshingly simple. I don't understand what you mean by "window dressing". This is a very musical album. with lazy melodies and lyrics. If that's what you are into - then great! I'd rather have an artist progress than be stuck doing stuff that does not in some way build on their past accomplishments. And I don't mean stealing phrasing or snippets of melodies from oneself. Again - he's a talented player and showman, but that's hardly all I would have said about him 20 years ago. The word innovator has fallen completely away. And that's really ok - I don't HAVE to like his new output, but it is a shame imo. |
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We aren't "stuck in the past", rather you are drinking entirely too much kool-aid. His music for the last 20 years is utterly lame compared to his output from 1980-87.
Oh, and we aren't spending much time listening to Lovesexy or ATWIAD (or Parade) b/c those albums are not Prince classics (though each contains some classics Prince songs). We listen to Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, and Sign O The Times. No Prince albums released after SOTT can touch Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, or SOTT. Its just a fact. the music knows what your motives are when you are making it
listen to The Replacements - its good for the soul | |
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tricky99 said: The biggest problem Prince has is not his current musical output. Prince is a progressive artist. Meaning he is always looking for new avenue of expression in his music. That includes incorporating the musical past and well as keeping an ear on contemporary music. He is not particularly interested in creating another 1999 or Purple Rain, however a large portion of his fans cannot move forward with him.
If you’re a fan that is still listening to LoveSexy or ATWIAD or a regular basis you can’t help to be anchored in the past. Those albums were the creation of a young genius just learning the ropes. What we have now is a mature genius who knows more about music composition then he knew back then. He’s moved from being experimental to being a craftsmen. If you are disappointed with Lotusflow3r it has more to do with unrealistic expectations then it does with the music. Who in the musical universe could have created that 3 disc collection other than Prince? Good point, I believe we all have our favorite albums and I would not say that just because Emancipation, for example, is one of my favorite albums that I'm stuck in the past. What I like to do is take my favorite albums from the past and present and put it all on random on my iPhone or Windows Media player on my laptop. It's all about variety. Peace ... & Stay Funky ...
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moderatorJust as it is believed that some of us live in the past and need to move on, I would suggest the same for you. You have been saying the same stuff on here for at least the last seven years. We get it. You who dig all the newer stuff are better fans than us. To keep rambling about the same crap is the definition of insanity. | |
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Nice Post. I listen to the past on occassion, however, I do appreciate Prince as a man still growing in his field. I'm sure the Purple Giant gets bigger.
"The Lion Sleeps Tonight... | |
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thedance said: Prince is simply not taken that serious anymore by the mainstream - and I think most fans agrees to the "fact" that Prince hasn't released a brilliant album in a very very looong time. 
[Edited 2/4/10 11:30am] Prince isn't taken seriously by the mainstream because he isn't young. No 51 year old, no matter how good they are, will never be in the mainstream! The music market is essentially catered for younger generations. Radio, TV & music magazines are mainly aimed at the younger audiences. Very few young people want to listen to the same music as their parents, therefore Prince & any other artist his age can never be in the mainstream because the older you get, the less you sell! "A brilliant album" - how can you define brilliant? I think all of Prince's albums are brilliant personally 
Many many many songs I dislike, mind you, but they're still brilliant. He may not have released a "brilliant album" in Prince standards for a while, because he's on a whole other plain than most. But when you compare it to the majority of what is out there these days, even your least favourite Prince album will seem brilliant! "my only competition is, well, me in the past" | |
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The main thing that Prince fans have to realize is that Prince can write music and play all alone enjoying his own talent.
Prince doesn't need to sell records to survive. Prince still offers music to be generous to the people that have depended on his art as an enjoyable part of our lives. I'm sure Prince would like to make more money in the music business, but he certainly doesn't need any more to be happy. "The Lion Sleeps Tonight... | |
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tricky99 said: The biggest problem Prince has is not his current musical output. Prince is a progressive artist. Meaning he is always looking for new avenue of expression in his music. That includes incorporating the musical past and well as keeping an ear on contemporary music. He is not particularly interested in creating another 1999 or Purple Rain, however a large portion of his fans cannot move forward with him.
If you’re a fan that is still listening to LoveSexy or ATWIAD or a regular basis you can’t help to be anchored in the past. Those albums were the creation of a young genius just learning the ropes. What we have now is a mature genius who knows more about music composition then he knew back then. He’s moved from being experimental to being a craftsmen. If you are disappointed with Lotusflower it has more to do with unrealistic expectations then it does with the music. Who in the musical universe could have created that 3 disc collection other than Prince? Just answer me one question: if his recent music is so great, how come HE AIN'T PERFORMING IT. FACT: during his recent Paris & Monaco gigs, the average age of the songs he played was 20+ years. So prince is playing MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS OLD SONGS. Who is stuck in the past? © Bart Van Hemelen
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