scififilmnerd said:

Whoops! I have a passing knowledge of Prince's recording chronology but I do tend to mix up lots of dates. However, I'm sure there are at least a few great rock tracks from the same era that have never been bootlegged that could have been included. I'm not sure if it would have fit but maybe "Interactive?" Or one of his rock ballads similar to "Strays Of The World?" Man, it would be great if we could get a release of all of that stuff together in chronological order.

rialb said:

I love Prince and 's rock music, too, which is why I think that Come and Chaos And Disorder were willfull sub-par releases on 's part in order to bother Warner Bros., but at the cost of hurting his career. And I do think that it would be a really admirable cool move from Prince to compensate fans for having to suffer the fall-out from the battle by releasing Come and Chaos And Disorder as the masterpieces they were originally conceived as.

But I also think that some of the offers made to Warner Bros. really weren't that bad. What fan wouldn't have loved a live set and/or The Vault Volume I, II and III?

I think Warner Bros. should have taken him up on those offers. A live-set would probably have sold more than what Chaos And Disorder did.
[Edited 9/26/09 12:07pm]

scififilmnerd said:

Well, if you have I stand corrected - TWICE!

However, having read the Continental today it certainly reports El Pais stating Dinner with Delores. [but Gold makes more sense!]

scififilmnerd said:

I've never heard this before [unless you've only told me this once!!]

How do you know this?

The date mentioned is before it's release though - so by the power vested in me and artistic licence, i include it my version of C&D along with 18 & Over, Empty Room, Calhoun Sq. and the original version of Zannalee.

KAB said:

I've only told you this once.

I remember reading, I think in an Uptown write-up of Crystal Ball, that it was from early 1996. And according to their Days Of Wild, 20-27 May is the earliest trip had to L.A. that year. (It says in the Crystal Ball liner notes that it was recorded in L.A..)

So I just put two and two together, I guess.

Anyway, I tried Da Bang out for my own Ultimate Chaos And Disorder collection, but I didn't think the sound matched the sound of the other rock tracks, so I decided against including it.

Boy, Chaos And Disorder and The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale sure have become the poster children for Prince's "fall from grace", so to speak. Tell you what, Chaos And Disorder and The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale have remained staples in my Prince CD rotation since they were released. I really like them both quite a bit. Chaos is not as cohesive an album experience as The Vault and it's jazz-tinged undercurrent, but it's a hell of a rocker. I even get all chicken-necky when Dig U Better Dead comes on.

I enjoyed C&D when it was first released.
The Rock music scene at the time was all about Grunge and the aftermath of that, so alot of Rock was drab and stripped down back then. C&D was like hearing Prince's version of that--even the embellishments on the album seemed to feel stripped down.

It sounded like he walked into a recording studio with his band, cranked the equipment on, and roared through a bunch of songs--most critics hated this 'unfinished' sound, but I found it interesting in light of the bloated, mechanical drone of previous albums like 'Come'

Not an artistic achievement or anything, but far from his worst album.

scififilmnerd said:

As long as you've only told me once

However, Da Bang fits even less into the Emancipation era songs and The Vault states he was working on this project in Spring / Summer 1996.

I think Da Bang was recorded before 1996 OR at the latest Miami 1996, making it a possible C&D [or even TGE] track????

Imago said:

Funny you should say that; I've always believed Prince was inspired by Offspring's breakthru album SMASH - the font is very similar. And the one word titles could have been inspired by Grunge.

In a UK magazine at the time, i think Q, it stated C&D was guitars turned upto 11. If only the album had contained more of the other rock tracks recorded at the time.

Imago said:

I agree. Those came later.

scififilmnerd said:

I agree the released version of Come nowhere near matches the known previous configurations.

Can't comment on C&D in the same way - it is a near miss, certainly contains no hit singles, but a good album and one of my favourites.

Again, I could add tracks i wish he had included - having seen the videos to Zannalee, Empty Room and Same December before the 1995 Gold tour concerts - and i went to 6 - i was blown away by how great they were. For my money even better than the Gold tracks i'd heard at that time.

scififilmnerd said:

My memorys not that good but I thought it was a full video....however as I can only remember a small section "I pulled up right beside her, my electric top went down..." I strongly suspect that was all there was

The thought never ever ever ever came to me that Empty Room was an outtake from Chaos And Disorder, I had always thought it was originally recorded for The Gold Experience...interesting.

Great read!!!


PS: Zannalee is the shit!
[Edited 9/26/09 17:13pm]

b88ne said:

I was not aware of this until a couple of days ago but apparently the version of "Empty Room" that is widely believed to be from the '93-'95 era is actually from 1985/1986. I think there is some confusion because a video was filmed for the song circa 1995 but the music is actually from about ten years prior to the video. If this information is false please correct me. I don't remember the thread but Boris Fishpaw claimed that "Empty Room" was recorded much earlier than was previously thought and he seems to know what he's talking about.

rialb said:

The details are in my article.

scififilmnerd said:

Arrogant, isn't he?
[Edited 9/27/09 8:57am]

KAB said:

On reflection I'd like to correct myself!

Same December could have been a hit [if released] as both the song and video are top drawer.

I think C&D suffered from the fall-out of Come, TGE and to a lesser extent the Black album, coming before it.

KAB said:

I love The Same December, too. Definitely one of the highlights of the album.

I also really love the title track, but I prefer the version without...
Rosie's... vocals.

Thanks again for your work... Although I'd been buying Prince albums since the late 1980s, 1995 was my first live concert - stood somewhere near the back of Wembly!!

This along with the rapid-fire release of Come, Exodus, Gold Experience and Chaos & Disorder, the Beautiful Experience on TV and & The Undertaker video, plus a bootleg industry in full force cemeted my facination with Prince. My interest has wained a little since, but just going back through the CDs and DVDs from back then still puts a smile on my face, and now reading all this background information into how and why they were released has rekindled things again

scififilmnerd said:

I LOVE tracks 1-6 - prefer the original version of Zannalee but its still good.
The second half of the album has it's moments too..

I was thinking that C&D probably had the fallout of the WBR / Prince deal which ended his contract. WBR knew he was lost to them so probably didn't promote the album as they would have previously.

With Emancipation on the horizon, they knew Prince would be not be fully committed to the promotion of C&D.

With no second single [which should have been Same December] there was little momentum for the album.

A great shame, because apart form Same December, Zannalee and the riff from Chaos the songs were 'new' [like Exodus] rather than the songs on Come and TGE which had been around, and played at concerts, for 1-2yrs.

squirrelgrease said:

I'd love for Prince to write like this again; clear, concise and to the point - no riddles, no double meanings, no silly spellings, no nonsense... If only!

Just a further thought - I hope you'll indulge me??

18&Over...

surely this track was included in a previous configuration??

I certainly believe so, and my take on C&D includes 18&Over [along with the other 3 tracks] in the same order as the videos shown before the Gold tour in 1995.

It follows your theory that Prince played the opening tracks to Come in sequence....?

so assuming the title track was first and the precedent of having a slower song at no.3...then the album opeing could have been..

1. Chaos and Disorder
2. I like It There
3. Dinner With Delores
4. Same December
5. 18 & Over
6. Zannalee
7. Empty Room

Similar to the released version with Right the Wrong replacing 18 & Over, speculation but possible.....????
[Edited 9/28/09 3:03am]
[Edited 9/28/09 3:04am]
[Edited 9/28/09 3:17am]

Nosferatu said:[quote]

squirrelgrease said:

I thought the same thing. I had a double-take before realizing Prince was writing the whole page.

KAB said:

Yeah, it was nice to get something new at the time.

KAB said:

Of course it's possible. The reason I didn't mention it is that it was a Come remix intended for a Come EP single in late 1994, but with the EP ending up not happening, I suppose could have moved the track to Chaos And Disorder.

RollingStoneOnline said:

Well, time - and Emancipation - proved that wasn't the case. His creative well had run dry, that's all.

squirrelgrease said:

See, for me they smell of Prince ticking the boxto get out of his contract. Chaos sounds like a piss take at times with Right The Wrong and Had U. (but there are 2 great song in Same December and Intothe Light). And Old Friends is horrid from the knocked together cover with an old picture of Prince ( to claim it's symbolic of " old friends" is giving it too much credit)right through to the turd brown rear inlay

If I had to smash 2 Prince albums i own then Old Fruends would be an instant Smash (get it?) and I thing Chaos wouldn't 2nd....may be TRC


Odd how opinions differ...must be why he's managed to earn money since the 90s
[Edited 9/28/09 6:28am]

squirrelgrease said:

I agree that The Vault... has a cohesive feel to it with it's jazz-tinged undercurrent, but clocking in at just 40 minutes, it's obvious was only giving Warner Bros. the minimum requirement. I also think a lot of the tracks are forgetable. obviously saved the better Vault tracks for Crystal Ball.

But getting The Vault... WAS nice. It's ten years ago now. Isn't it about time we got some more Vault tracks? I think so. And I'm sure Prince could find enough old tracks that don't include four-letter words to make up an album.
[Edited 9/28/09 7:44am]

scififilmnerd said:

Time has been kind to C&D, it went from most-hated at the time of release to hidden gem since. Even with it's few stinkers, it's still far better than either Emancipation, Rave, Musicology, 3121, or MPLSound... IMO, natch.