PurpleMusiq8 said:

I'm not sure about your point but I don't like pigface and I was a hardcore Skynny Puppy fan since 1988, I interview Ogre once.

You might like NIN Ghosts I-IV, but that doesn't mean is a good album, you know, my 16 year old cousin loves Miley Cirus, she's a fan not a critic, she doesn't even know why she like her.

Historians, critics and art experts are the ones who save history for us, they do justice to the overlooked and help to define a a moment in time. Prince would not be Prince without them, he was a critic darling before the fans discovered him, most of radio stations that played Dirty Mind suported that album because the great reviews, same thing that happen to NIN, critics put them on the map after the first Loollapaloza. And by critics (and art experts etc.) I don't mean any dumb fuck with a blog.

PurpleMusiq8 said:

I think you might be new at this forums (or you don't come a lot), everyone knows that Downward Spiral, Pretty Hate Machine (and Broken and The Fragile and even the Lost Highway soundtrack) are classics, and we all know Prince is a big fan.

I meet Mark Romanek when he was doing the video for Cash's Hurt, I almost cry because I knew that cover will be the shit. Still I'm not getting your point.

PurpleMusiq8 said:

LOL, now you know it was your comment that provocated all those facts that din't help Trent that much.

Don't confuse facts with taste.

pepper7 said:

I get you, but hey today is a new era, this millenium it's all about colors fun and dance.

You can ask almost every single important indie act about who is their main influence, they will answer Prince! You can ask almost every single important mainstream act who is their main influence they will answer Prince!

Everything is a cycle. The 90's would comeback between 2015/2020.

pepper7 said:

Wow...this must be the funniest thing I've ever heard...in my life....
[Edited 9/26/09 9:45am]

aarontj said:

er...I'm confused.

Militant said:

"I've been in the music industry my entire life, if people can't see or don't wanna admit that Trent is one of the most influential acts out there, then fuck 'em."

Again your putting words on peoples mouths, no one say that, I din't say that, but may be this is the way for you to avoid all the stupid loose comments made by Prince with no "realistic and objective point of view" by the people who posted the first comments of this tread.

Like I say, I'm a BIG Trent Reznor fan, but I'm not a blind fanatic, his dated, most of the new generation don't care about his shit right now, I'm not on the music industry, I'm on the filmmaking industry but I can understand why this happen, his not relevant anymore, his not connecting with the 2009 rock crowd, may be you were 18 year old when you connected with NIN back in the 90's, but most of 18 to 25 year old today are into some other "cool" shit (MIA, Arcade Fire, Kings of lion, MGMT, Bat for laches, werever).

If you have been on the music industry all your life you should understand this, you should not expect a kid listen to the same thing their parents listen to, things changes, trend changes, what is hip today would not be hip tomorrow, what's the point of evolution if you wanna keep stuck?

It's weird that you are on the music industry and this tread bother you that much, it's even more weird that you just complaing without even reading the comments.

I'm not sure on what kind of music industry you are, but remember that the Greatfull Dead crew were on the music industry for years and they were the most stubborn, stuck, unevolutionized humans being" ever.

Trent is great, NIN 90's albums rock, but that's beyond the point.

aarontj said:

I happen to know MIA personally and believe that her music sucks for the most part. Kids on the street aren't checking for MIA. That's a fact. It's mostly trendy industry journalist hype with her. I know a few people that would say they like some of her music but not one person that would say they are a fan of her. She sucks live too, saw her at Glastonbury a few years back (I headlined there with my band, I would never go to Glasto as a punter lol). Arcade Fire, Kings of Leon and MGMT are great! But their fanbases are never and have never been anywhere connected with NIN's fanbase. Fact is, here in Birmingham, UK (and in London) i REGULARLY see kids walking around with NIN shirts. All the time. Teenagers and people in the young twenties mostly - ie the key, trendsetting audience.
Hell my 10 year old nephew is obsessed with NIN and not because of me.

To say Trent is not connecting with the 2009 is a complete fabrication from my personal experience. When NIN played their last few shows in the UK there was a fever and hype around it more so than I've seen with NIN in the last decade. NIN's songs in the games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band are some of the most popular songs in the games so maybe that gave them a new audience, also Trent doing things like giving "The Slip" away as a free download certainly increased his fanbase.

Trent is far from irrelevant or dated. As you for you saying maybe I connected with NIN in the 90's when I was 18 - think again. I'm 22 years old, so it was 2005 when I was 18 and I absolutely became a fan of NIN in this decade - I don't remember exactly when but it was somewhere in between the release of "The Fragile" in 1999 and "With Teeth" in 2005. I'd obviously heard singles and tracks on the radio growing up, but by the time "With Teeth" came out I was a big enough NIN fan to cop it on release day and be familiar with all of their back catalog, so I probably really started checking for NIN in maybe 2003.



Of course and I never said otherwise. But NIN is not of my parents generation. My parents generation was The Beatles/Stones/Hendrix/Joni/The Doors.

My generation is the mid-to-late 80's and 90's and it's reflected by the artists that I grew up listening to and hold dearest - Prince, MJ, Tupac, Zapp, Dre, DJ Quik, RATM, Nirvana, Hole, NIN, Marilyn Manson, KoRn.



Me being in the industry has nothing to do with this thread bothering me. It bothers me that we seemingly can't have an intelligent discussion regarding two of my favorite artists without it turning into a competition and fanboys jumping in making ignorant statements and not being able to accept educated opinion. That's what I'm complaining about, and now you're saying I'm not reading the comments? Maybe you're the one that isn't.



NIN's 00's albums rock as well. And what exactly is the point? I'm not sure you're even making one any more.
[Edited 9/26/09 11:48am]
[Edited 9/26/09 11:52am]

Militant said:

Well I gues we're for diferent sides of society, were I come from, were I hang out, no one listen to NIN anymore, that doesn't mean that Trent is not respected or that people don't enjoy his classics albums, but you might know that there are people who listen to the latest cool (It, In, hip etc.) thing, people who listen to new ideas and values in Rock music (werever that is).

Like it or not, Trent Reznor is far for been a voice for this generation, his not conected with the new scene, he might have a cult following (most of them are 28 to 40 year olds) but he is no longer the voice from kids on the streets. I love NIN, but that is a fact. Demographics are demographics, you should know this better then me. Last NIN concert I went it was older adults, no kids, no teens, no younger audience, may be a few emo kids.

Comparing the way kids interact with the media via Guitar Hero and Rock Band to buying music albums it's abzurd, NIN concept din't came as a video game, nethier the Beatles, Led Zep etc., for sure a video game can help to promote a work but on the same level of a comercial. Ask this kids why they like to play with NIN music, they will tell you because it's hard enough to represent the action on their screens, nothing to do with the music, the lyrics or Trent concept.

Anyway, your opinion of M.I.A. say it all, she's probably one of the most important and inovated artists out there, everyone I know think she's the coolest shit, even Trent Reznor love her, I know you know he was one of the mainstream artists who started the hype around her, there's a NIN/MIA conecction trough Peaches too. MIA became big via word of mouth, from the streets. So I guess your street it's out of touch.

For you to say that MIA sucks live on the same gig that you play, it shows that you might be envious of her been praised as a show stealer on every single festival out there, from her first Coachellla to The Outside Lands Music & Arts Festival, it's a very well know fact that she kick ass live, I mean she got a reputation for been a bad ass show, before the Paper Planes thing.

I seen her a couple of times and I love her.

The artists that you grow up listen to, I like them all, I own their albums, but most of them are really dated and totally out of touch, RATM are ridiculous, they don't represent what they sign for, that's the main problem with a political band, today they look like parody of the 90's, you should chek the articles were people laugh at them.

The whole Nirvana credo is pathethic, really depressing and closer to the Jim Morrison phenomenon then to the Lennon phenomenon, (The Simpsons say it best in their 90's special), if Kurt wasn't dead he probably will be a washed out artist, the only friend that listen to him are my friends who still are into pot.

When I used to watch KoRn live (on the warped tour) I knew they were the metal/skater cliche, that's why they fit perfectly on those comercials for video games, were every clip have to be fast and hard. For me they are the 90's generation Duran Duran (and I love Duran Duran).

The people that I respect the most is the people who don't denied the reality, I don't care if you are somebodys biggest fan, you have to keep in touch with reality, I love Prince but I know he is not the voice of this generation, today his more like kitchy cool, but his defently the main inspiration of today indie scene. Tv on the Radio, MGMT, Of Montreal, etc.

Sorry to say this bro, but Trent is no longer relevant, the people who think he is are out of touch, this is not my opinion, this is a fact, I love NIN but that got nothing to do with reality, Trent Reznor became what he hated the most, a washed out clown trying to pull out desperated publicity stunts.

The only reason that NIN and Radiohead give away music for free is to stay relevant on todays market (the myspace generation), I mean they were all about the $ during the 90's early 00's, when they rule. I rather pay 13 dlls for a good album then get a piece of crap for free.

Love and Peace.

aarontj said:[quote]

Militant said:

Actually, this isn't actually the case. NIN still sell very well.
But there were actually articles run on several magazines with regards to a new movement of performance-centric acts that were doing new things with the music industry model.

In the old days acts would release and album and then tour to support the album. But in general, acts that command huge audiences touring make much more money off of the tours than off the albums. So several artists adopted a model of releasing their albums for free or as give-aways to drum support the tour rather than vice versa.

It's proven to be very lucrative for musical acts that are adept at touring and commanding audiences---NIN falls in this catories..They're shows are energetic and often sold out.

radiohead, NIN, and several other acts giving away their albums more out of experimenting with the music model rather than out of desperation. It's the music industry itself that is in slightly dire straights--these acts have enough clout and presence to try new things rather than relying on the music industry to save itself.

Prince gave away 3 million copies of his record in the UK to promote his 21 nights shows. Some could argue he signed this deal because he knew he couldn't get the same payoff on his own or distribution to audiences on his own...but really, Prince is just experimenting with the model as well.

The NIN website is far better than lotusflow3r though, and I'd love to see Prince doe something more in that vein.

Imago said:

girl, stop making sense, you know that shit aint gonna fly here...

Imago said:[quote]

aarontj said:

Well, to compare Prince 3 millions on the business deal with the paper (UK) to NIN/Radiohead overelbaorated publicity stunt is crazy.

Prince did a business deal with The Paper, with a record that was destined to be on retail at record shops allready.

He signed this deal because he knew he couldn't get the same payoff on his own or distribution to audiences on his own??? Course, he's Prince not Gandhi, his been strugle with the Industry since the 90's, at the same time that NIN and Radiohead were selling out to the studios.

Prince it's ana expert on publicity stunts and a new model to work (experimanting etc.) on the industry. A very well know way of work for Prince, he even told the media that he made his money back on the UK deal. Honest man, businnes man.

NIN they do give away free albums, but with diferent purposses, in NIN press releases, they explained that it was a gift for their fans, Trent told the press that he no longer need it to wait so many days to release an album plus he din't wanna rob his fans, they should get the music for free, he even went as far as telling his fans to steal his records.

New busniess model? experimenting? If the myspace system wasn't allready created, this will be a daring move for NIN, but Trent became a myspace freak, he discover that the new bands were putting music for free, without any hook, without trying to sell the "I'm too cool with my fans" gimmick.

Trent became obsessed to let every single media know that he was the Rock messiah, "look at me I'm so humble that I give away my music, no one can't beat that". I wonder why he wasn't giving away for free The Downward Spiral and The Fragile?? right. Relevance with the myspace kids.

Later on Trent try to make a deal with apple so his fans can but a 300dlls Iphone for the apps, your so kind Trent.

Radiohead din't give their album away for free, they asked for "give what you want", while realsing the album for sale later on. Once again their press releases were about been humble to their fans, but if you go to Radiohead web site you can find 15 dlls drinking bottles, shirts etc. And once again why do they din't give away for free Ok Computer? Why do they sign with the industry?

It's obvious that NIN and Radiohead are trying hard to be relevant, if they are not that desperated why bother making this things as big deals? I rather suport a honest seller then a hypocrital artist. Like that Thom Yorke self promotion against the mainstream, then he went to perform at the Grammys and made a comercial for CBS, Tv biggest monopoly network!! Disgusting.

Prince is selling us his music, without preaching about saving the industry, saving the fans or saving himself. He is all businnes.

NIN/Radiohead are hypocrites, they preach about the fans economics, they preach about how cool they are for givin away music, while they played at summer festivals were tickets are worth more then 100dlls, were a water bottle is 10 dlls.

Prince din't made a good deal to fans with lotusflow3r, but at least he din't try to make us belive that he is humble and humaniarian. He is Prince, a good businnes man, that went to the web when it wasn't cool to be on the web.

NIN, Radiohead or Prince will never loose their live audiences, they are the kind of artists that people want to see live, for ever, doesn't matter if they have new hits or new music.

aarontj said:

Prince has charged more than $100 a head as recently as his 3121 days for certain shows.

I don't think there's a problem with that. People are going to pay what they want to pay to go to the shows. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads, honestly.

But how do you know the motivations behind what Trent or Prince are doing in their giveaways? It seems to rely heavily on conjecture. And as far as the hypocrisy for why the artists are doing what they do--well, Prince can't really be free and clear of allegations of hypocrisy either


I'm not speculating on what their intentions may have been, as well honestly, it's just guesswork.

however, Trent's model with is fans is working for him very well. And his fans are quite happy with it. I don't think there are very many disappointed NIN fans out their with regards to his website or his music in general.


He holds his own quite well.

Imago said:

Well I know many Trent Reznor fans that were pissed couse they could not aford the NIN $300 Deluxe Edition (after the whole Trent free music stunt).

But my point was that Prince doesn't have to preach about been a rock industry messiah to be down with the myspace generation, he just don't care. But Radiohead and NIN are desperated to get some attention, to be hip and they are willing to buy anything that can get them street credit, You know why? because that's alternative music nature, to be down with indie scene, with the underground kids, but Trent and Radiohead are far away of be alternative, subersive, dangerous rock. Like it or not, today kids see them as millionare rock stars that are trying hard to be cool. Both Radiohead and NIN are turning into what they hate the most, egocentric rock legends freaks, with publicity gimmicks to shine Perez Hilton blog:

Reznor trashed his collegues (Weezer, Prince)just for the sake of it. Like if going after a band of nerds and a glam legend will give him any street credit. He got backclash? yeah. The ironic thing is that Prince is kinda like the rock star all new bands follow, Trent out of touch? yeah.

Do you remember the time were Reznor make fun of Prince clothing? he was right, Prince was out touch with the 90's. Have you read about Trent girlfriend fashion trends? yeah she's been hated by millions. Karma or out of style? both.

Thom Yorke trashed his collegues (Artic Monkeys, Miley Cirus) just for the sake of it. Like if going after a band of english boys and a Pop star will give him any street credit. Yorke say that they don't do that (meet other artists) at The Grammys, Really? So why bother going? Just to show off? yeah, the joke was on them, if you go and perfom at the Grammys on the same stage of the Jonas bros and you still think you are alternative/subersive, the joke it's on you.

Have you seen the Radiohead dvd were Thom Yorke answer to a journalist that he think he doesn't have a good voice? You know what happens next? a edited transition that keep showing us the same clip were Thom Yorke say he din't like his voice, Do you think Yorke allow this cut to be released? yeah, it was his idea, it was their own documentary, "let show everyone my pain, my modesty, re-edit that part", please!

Like I say before, I rather suport a honest seller then a hypocrital artist.

The worst thing Trent did was that comment to Prince, making a joke (and statement) that Prince latest albums were crap, he might be right, but when your best friend and protege Peter Murphy is selling out to the Chase Bank covering one of the most comercial songs ever on tv ads, Trent you have to point your finger at someone else (That's right, the lead singer of the dark band Bauhaus is doing comercials with a Beatles song).

Prince need to worth fans their money, when he start doing that Ill be there with my $77, meanwhile I save to see him live.

aarontj said:

It doesn't help your argument by presenting your opinions as fact when they are anything but.

Trent has a bigger fanbase than any of those artists you mentioned. That is a fact. He sells more records than them even when he gives his music away for free. That is a fact. You walk down ANY street here in the UK and there are more NIN fans than any of those other artists you mentioned. That is a fact. His concerts sell out faster than any of them. That is a fact. And most of the people in attendance are not adults, they are teenagers and young twenty year olds. Fact. I know. I've seen it. I know 16 year old girls that completely lose their mind over NIN. Lots of them. That is a fact.

I know the demographics. It seems like you don't.




That's not the point of what I am saying. I'm saying, for whatever reason, Trent still has a young, trendy fanbase. I was speculating that at least for the 10-14 crowd, perhaps those games contributed to that. I don't know why my nieces and nephews love NIN, it's not because of me. I don't know why the teenagers I know that love NIN do, it's not because of me. But they do. More so than the bands you mentioned like Arcade Fire and MGMT - those guys only have a fanbase of middle class indie kids who go to university on their parents dime. Those are not the trendsetters. As I said, I'm 22 myself and hold NIN in far higher esteem than any of the acts you mentioned, and that's not all to do with their 90's work, but what Trent has been doing over the last few years as well. And I'm not alone.





Actually, it's your opinion that says it all. MIA important and innovative? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Now that is hilarious.

I KNOW Maya. I knew her before her first album even came out. I know her friends, her agent, her PR people, her label. The fact that you think she became big through word of mouth and the streets means you know NOTHING. You're just another sucker falling for media and PR hype. I take it you're from the States? Well, I live and work in London 50% of the time, and as you know I'm in the music industry. MIA did not become big through word of mouth and the streets. In fact when her first album hit, people thought she'd come out of nowhere. Nobody knew who she was. She hadn't played any gigs (as I mentioned before I saw her early on and it was terrible, I can't speak for any shows she's done in the last year or two, I saw her in 2006) and nobody knew who she was. XL (her label) orchestrated a campaign to make it seem like she'd come up from the Asian underground scene - but people I work with closely are the mainstays of that scene - DJ's, presenters, promoters, artists - and NONE of us knew who she was as an artist. She didn't cultivate a fanbase by making new and good music - she built it through media hype and trendy middle class journalistic bullshit. That's a fact. Shit, she'd probably tell you that herself, in less caustic terms, she's a pretty honest person from all the convos I've had with her. In the states, it was "Paper Planes" being in the movie Pineapple Express before anybody really knew her, then the Jay-Z & TI track with her solidified that.

She's not important or innovative in the slightest. She's derivative of the REAL Asian scene in London and if she had to come up through it, she wouldn't be anywhere because the fact is, she's not talented enough. She sidestepped it by being close friends with Justine from the band Elastica and getting a deal through her.





I'm telling you she sucked when I saw her. Badly. I'm far from envious, what do I have to be envious about? You say her first Coachella and all that - I saw her BEFORE that. Maybe she stepped up her game. But to insinuate that she has always been some awesome groundbreaking artist that everybody loved from day one is bullshit. Complete bullshit. It's easy for artists that aren't from the US to go to the US and claim a reputation like that. I've seen it happen a million times. There's no way for US fans and US media to question it, because you didn't see them in the early stages. Well, I did, and I'm telling you how it is.



I'm not getting into a RATM debate with you, again they have a stronger fanbase than any of the artists you have mentioned. I think they absolutely represent what they claim to. I've met Morello before and he is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met and very much dedicated to the causes he speaks about, as does Zack. FYI, it's "check" and "where". Don't expect to get anywhere in a debate without basic spelling skills.




Again, I'm not interested in getting into a Nirvana debate with you, but I disagree. Kurt was a genius and one of the most influential rock songwriters of all time. Courtney could put out a random Nirvana compilation with ANYTHING on it tomorrow and it would be platinum in a couple days, even though people don't really buy music anymore. There's a good reason for that, and I think you have some issues in accepting that.




Prince is still more artistically and commercially relevant than any of those bands, and so is Trent. TV on the Radio? Of Montreal? You can't be fucking serious. Those guys have no fans aside from middle class trendy kids. They aren't filling venues or influencing new artists. Walk down the street and nobody knows who they are.




No, it's not a fact, it's your opinion. Trent is the poster child for a whole new generation of the music business and people are listening to him and watching what he does across the borders. Trent is absolutely relevant and influencing more of the next generation of rock artists than almost any other band. Take a look at the NIN forums and the wide variety of people on there (their ages, origins, ethnic backgrounds, where they live) and that is undeniable.



Complete and utter bollocks. If people were only interested in NIN's recent material because it was free, how come all the physical material that WAS pressed sold out almost instantly? Trent made something like a million dollars within 24 hours of The Slip coming out, through having variable price ranges for different levels of product. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Imago said:

Thank you!

PurpleMusiq8 said:

Well, it is far better!

Hell, NPGMC was better than lotusflow3r

Militant said:

Sorry I was out, here I go:

Wow! I guess you don't read magazines, books or the web, MIA is the most aclaimed artist of this millenium, I could tell you how many experts, artists and publications name her twice artist of the year, album of the year, song of the year etc. She became the undeground queen that deserved to be a hit, she strugle for many years untill she made it thanks to a Hollywood film. She is the only music act that was on Time Mag list of most influential people in the world twice on this decade. I guess you will answer this saying that "You're just another sucker falling for media and PR hype" like if that was a bad thing anyway, I mean the media hype made famous Iggy Pop, Elvis Costello, Prince, U2, REM, NIN, The Stone Roses, etc. Seems like you hate critics, may be your band got bad reviews.

By the way you don't have to tell me that she's a honest person, cause I know she is, I hear the story about her "succes" on interviews on TV and publications. May be you don't go to dance clubs but she played the underground scene for years, first time I saw her live was with a crowd of 200 people and she was the shit. Everybody was dress on neon colors dancing her political anthems (I'm pretty sure you hate that scene).

Funny that you say that "DJ's, presenters, promoters, artists - and NONE of us knew who she was as an artist" because she was a Peaches protegee, that din't made it after a year of the release of her second album, before that she was a underground queen playing in dance clubs, with no airplay and no budget, a friend of mine worked on the special efects of her "Galang" video (that's how I discover her), he worked for free because they din't have any money. But she made her cult following via myspace. myspace is a social networking site were kids share files, this millenium underground scene, Do you know that artists don't have to play clubs anymore to cultivated a fan base?

Your comment that "She didn't cultivate a fanbase by making new and good music" well it's a complete nonsense none fact, she have a growing cult following before "Paper Planes" became a hit. As your opinion that "she doesn't make new and good music" I will answer not with my opinion but in Trent Reznor own words:

"The only thing that I play in my car right now is Arular by a girl named M.I.A., the most inovated artist in years" I can even ad some of Thom Torke opinions:

"She's the best artist of the year, I can stop listen to her." You can even chek the Yorke webcast were he plays and dance with Arular on You Tube.

Your remarks about "Those guys have no fans aside from middle class trendy kids. They aren't filling venues or influencing new artists. Walk down the street and nobody knows who they are." you sound like Henry Rollins, like a old school Punk that hates that today kids rebel from the inside of the system, smart enough to have jobs and to fit in society while changing the world at the same time, a Rock revolution is not via anarchy anymore, anarchy din't work, bitterness din't work, look like the homeless is not cool anymore, is stupid, Do you remember how the punk movement buried the hippies? well guess what? the "trendy kids" are buried punk, alternative and grunge, Why? because they fail.

Corgan is complaining about his low sales, Cornell is doing albums with Justin Timbarlake, the ex-Nirvanas are doing Pop music, Pearl Jam are doing one week tv shows, Radiohead are doing tv spots for the CBS network, RATM fight for a MTv award trophy (before Kanye!), Hypocrites? Sell outs? both.

I can keep going... Courtney Love, she wanted to make a album with Madonna, the queen of grunge with Madonna! Greenday are working on broadway, how punk! What's next? Trent Reznor walks the Hollywood red carpet with his trendy girlfriend posing for the paparazis? wait, that allready happens. Sorry dude, the 90's fail. By the way you should chek the recent New York Times interview wtih RATM were the main readers comment about how inocent and funny the band look trying to be activists making their fans get arrested while they go back to their Hollywood mansions after a rally, real revolutionaries right.

Alternative music and grunge was a orchestrated a campaign from the labels, Do you ever wonder why the "I don't wanna be a Rock star" Kurt Cobain acted for the big productions videos? I can see the director saying: "Cut!, Kurt you need to be more sad, more angry" Kurt: "Ok, how about if I lay down in the floor in pain?" Director: "That's good, hold on, make up!" You know how a video is made right?

Johnny Lydon say after Kurt dead: " If you don't want to be a star, just stop, but don't preach about it, do not scream it to the world"

By the way don't confuse hard working, stylish people with middle class spoil kids. This generation likes to work and likes to look good. The "I'm just a guy with a old shirt with a mess up hair" look isn't cool anymore. Don't blame me, blame the kids.

Trent was the man during 1994-2001. After that he became just another legend that speaks to the same people who grow up listen to him, the hardcore fans, the cult following. Like any other legend or veteran act sure he have young fans, but his not the voice of this generation, his not even close to be the sound of this generation. There are other stuff that is important for kids right now, Rock evolve, values evolve, trends evolve, even morals evolve.

I know lots of teens who like old stuff like Trent or Tool but this doesn't mean this kids are the trendsenders or this doesn't mean most of the kids in the world look at Trent as their hero. To say that you "know 16 year old girls that completely lose their mind over NIN" is a loose comment. Show me the demographics were teenagers are buying the new Trent albums, show me the demographics were teenagers are going to see him live, show the demographics were teens are dressing like Trent. Are you livin in 2009? kids who like Rock, are into the myspace indie bands, a lot of crazy 80's retro, kitchi, fun stuff. Go to a mall so you can see what kind of shoes they buy, what kind of clothes. Do you think they are into Dark, Goth, industrial fashion? Have you been out side lately? Just go to Billboard.com and look for the Rock albums on the 200 album chart, also you can check the chart data base of this millenium, NIN was on the top 10 for just a couple of weeks, their new music don't mean anything but to the cult following.

Sells or fashion don't matter, but NIN is not (and will never be) the voice for young generations, face it, they are Rock royalty now, a legendary band that will connect with audience trough their classics not their new music, like Prince. It's a cycle, this happens to every single important Rock act. You should know this if you are in the music businnes.

Let's not confuse legendary status with relevance, NIN will be a sold out concert act forever, like Prince, U2, The Rolling Stones, Bruce etc. but this doesn't mean they speak for the kids, this doesn't mean they are the cutting edge, the new voice etc. It's a fact, not my opinion. Sorry, don't blame me, blame the kids.

By the way your idea of asking on the streets about who's well know, Trent or the indie bands, is like if we asked during the 90's who was best know Prince or Alice In chains? best answer: Prince, best voice of that generation: Alice in Chains.

You need to get on track man, this is 2009, not 1993.

IMPORATNT NOTE:

About this statements:

"Trent is the poster child for a whole new generation of the music business and people are listening to him and watching what he does across the borders. Trent is absolutely relevant and influencing more of the next generation of rock artists than almost any other band."

Wow! this sounds like Trent is the man of the hour!

Show me this facts beside the NIN forums, show me a recent magazine cover with Trent, show me the interviews were the new generation talks about Trent, show me the articles, the notes of the music business moguls praising Trent, show me something important been say about Trent that got nothing to do with a NIN press release, a NIN forum or a NIN fan blog or a industrial genre blog.

Right.

Imago said:

Lady Ga Ga web site is better then Lotusflower too.

So?

aarontj said:

I never said there was deeper meaning in the statement
Just an observation on the comparison and contrast between two of my favorite musical act.
Trent sure holds his own in many aspects.

I couldn't give a shit if Yorke and Reznor like MIA, she still sucks. There is nothing interesting or innovative about her music, it's not catchy or melodic, I listened to her albums a few times and don't remember shit about them.

The difference with the artist you mentioned before that got media hype was because the media got hyped about their talent. Not just because it was something different. Different does not equate to good.

Anyway, I'm done trying to convince a fool. Which is what you are, you make up shit to suit your garbage argument. You know nothing about Kurt yet you make retarded comments about the way you picture him acting in his music videos. I know the stories and the real life comments from people who were there and you are so offbase it's ridiculous. FYI, Madonna and Courtney Love cannot stand each other, and NOBODY, I REPEAT NOBODY, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ever got famous through MySpace. Again, if you believe that, you're a sucker falling for the hype and need to read articles like this one:


http://www.newmusicstrate...-the-hype/


Keep talking your shit, too bad nobody here is paying attention, and now I'm not either.

As for the things you wanted me to show you - I could show you all of those things about NIN, but there's no fucking point because you quite clearly have an axe to grind.

Reply to this with as much bullshit as you want, but you are the one who fail. I'm telling you solid facts that NIN mean more to the current generation than any of the suburban indie bullshit and you continue to deny it despite there being a ton of evidence to support my argument and NONE to support yours.

BTW - I'm on a major label myself, and I'm part of one of the most critically acclaimed AND commercially successful bands in our entire genre of music worldwide. I spend every day talking with label people, artists, management, PR, publicists, journalists, promoters. My stance on this matter is an educated, inside one. Yours is not. What do you do again?

Furthermore, as a very respected, educated, orger who everybody here thinks very highly of, just orgnoted me:



That orger will go unnamed, but he's right, and I've stated my opinion repeatedly on this matter, so we're done here. Mods, lock this thread and let's move on.
[Edited 9/28/09 10:03am]

Imago said:

Yea I remember NPGMC. I remember when the homepage was nothing but space and all these crazy quotes would fly by the screen.

At least then it was a cool interactive world that, correct me if I'm wrong, Prince wanted to do on Lotusflow3r. I don't know why he doesn't put more on there. And fuck, where am I supposed to get Slaughterhouse from again? I miss hearing S&M Groove.

It was cool that he had all those internet-only albums on there, and unreleased singles.

Militant said:

OK:
"I couldn't give a shit if Yorke and Reznor like MIA, she still sucks. There is nothing interesting or innovative about her music, it's not catchy or melodic, I listened to her albums a few times and don't remember shit about them."

When you said that your stance on this matter is an educated, inside one (on the industry). And you trash a collegue like this, you might will never get along with the BIG genius in your industry, couse they all loved M.I.A. they all think that's the future and some of them (like Yorke, Bjork, Jay Z) are following her.

Do you know she's been ask to produced, duet, write and partipated on many high profile projects?

"The difference with the artist you mentioned before that got media hype was because the media got hyped about their talent. Not just because it was something different. Different does not equate to good."

So acording to you M.I.A. is the only aclaimed artist who doesn't deserved been named the best album of the year twice and best artist of the year twice by critics, press, music experts, high profile artists etc. I guess YOU REALLY DON'T LIKE HER. You now what? I don't like Ok Computer but that album deserved all the praise. There's a big diferent between taste and knowledge.

"Anyway, I'm done trying to convince a fool. Which is what you are, you make up shit to suit your garbage argument."

Dude I'm not trying to convince you, I'm put it facts out there, I'm debating on this forum, good all clean debate, I don't think you are a fool, I think you are smart and cool, you are a good debater, I will love to talk to you in person, this is a very passionate argument that deserves to be talk with anyone. Sad that you getting the wrong impression, we're not enemys.

"You know nothing about Kurt yet you make retarded comments about the way you picture him acting in his music videos. I know the stories and the real life comments from people who were there and you are so offbase it's ridiculous."

Fail hard dude, I don't why you turning this into personal things, you don't even know me to make this statement. Just because I havin a debate on this forum doesn't mean I don't know Kurt, just beacuse you are on the music industry doesn't mean you know more then anyone about music history or music in general.

I talk to Kurt once, for a couple of hours. First time I saw Nirvana was in the Iguana's club in 1990, before grunge got big, you were like 5 years old?

Iguana's existed from 1989 to 1993, everybody played there, from NIN to Pearl Jam before it was cool to like them.

"NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON[/b] ever got famous through MySpace.etc." (this answer is about your whole take on the business)

Your asuming that anyone who have a record contract, have a agent, or a publicits before, that's fair, most of the mainstream artists work that way, but not all of the underground artists do that. Still there are underground labels and there are plenty of succesfull underground artists in those labels, most of them work by themselves.

Now, about myspace owned by Fox, doesn't mean that every single act that made it from myspace is a Fox realted signed artist, don't have a point here man. By the way, have you hear about the underground movement Nortec? they are a big aclaimed mexican collective that never signed to a big label, and became very succesful by themselves, Time magazine named them the future of world music. They have a ad with Brad Pitt, music for volvo, score on many films and people like Beck and Peter Murphy as fans, still they work on a indie underground label.

"Then you recall that bandwidth costs money, and that there are technical limitations on upstream internet bandwidth from home connections."

Fail hard dude, there are many domestic servers that will allow you to host a unlimited bandwidth for like 200 bucks a year, anyone can have a very good suport on their web site from home.


"As for the things you wanted me to show you - I could show you all of those things about NIN, but there's no fucking point because you quite clearly have an axe to grind."

Sucks dude, it will be cool to read about how Trent is the coolest man in music right now, I love the guy, but can't found anything about that on the web. Wish you can show me.

"BTW - I'm on a major label myself, and I'm part of one of the most critically acclaimed AND commercially successful bands in our entire genre of music worldwide. I spend every day talking with label people, artists, management, PR, publicists, journalists, promoters. My stance on this matter is an educated, inside one. Yours is not. What do you do again?"

Good for you, I will love to hear your band, but still doesn't matter what I do or what you do, I'm just another Prince fan, you know?

I just have a meeting with the director and producer of the biggest and long awaited film of the decade, is not Avatar (is BIGGER then Avatar), but that doesn't make me better the anyone else in here, I'm just a Prince fan in here, like anyone else, we all are purple kids.

When I became succesfull with awards and praise I din't have a publicist, a manager or a contract, I did it by my self, I did my own web site, and every single thing in my films (direction, writing editing, producing, phtography, art direction, special efects etc.). You don't need no BIG labels/studios to make it. myspace is magic!

Nice chating with you, peace bro, thank you for paying attention.