OldFriends4Sale said:

Well the way Prince clowned Morris Day it is a strong possibility Prince meant for it like that.

When did Prince "clown" Morris Day?

Do you mean the "wooden leg" dance, that essentially went unnoticed and completely flopped while every little kid at my school was doing "The Oak Tree"? Even then that just showed how personal Prince felt about Morris leaving the camp and having solo hits without him.

funksterr said:

madhouseman said:

My guess is that Prince did this on purpose which is why The Time doesn't play the song that often. He was already commonly called 'The Kid' by a lot of people in the Prince camp long before Purple Rain came along.

The nickname ‘The Kid’ came from Dez Dickerson according to his 2003 autobiography “My Time With Prince.” “I was the one who coined the nickname many of us in the camp used – The Kid. I didn’t mean it as a slight or derogatory term. I always had respect for him beyond his – year’s instincts. The name seemed to fit. Obviously he agreed, because he would call himself by it in the movie.”

Prince’s managers also referred to him by this nickname, which was noticed by Al Magnoli, as he was working on the script for Purple Rain. “Cavallo, Ruffalo, and Fargnoli never referred to Prince as ‘Prince.’ They always said ‘the Kid.’ So I go, why don’t you call him by his name? They go ‘We hate the name. We call him the Kid.’ They would call him ‘the Kid’ to his face. When they were together they always called him the kid and I noticed other musicians were calling him the Kid so obviously he knew.”

This is information from my upcoming book PRINCE: The Complete Prince's character sStudio Sessions (1983/84).

Assuming Prince originally wrote the song for himself.... that doesn't make it weird in how he repurposed it for The Time, just as he repurposed all types of songs no matter who wrote them for himself (Do Me Baby, DMSR, International Lover, Lolita, Betcha By Golly Wow, Partyup, Kiss, etc) and associated artists. It was still a popular phrase to refer to yourself as the kid, before describing something cool or amazing you were going to do, Prince was known to write songs around popular trends (Let's Rock instead of Let's Work) so either way... it isn't weird.

Agreed. He repurposed songs for people all the time, but this was recorded during a batch of other songs for The Time so it is most likely that it was always intended for them. Again, that doesn't mean much considering he'd take songs back sometimes as well (Yes, I'm looking at you Kiss! lol)

funksterr said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well the way Prince clowned Morris Day it is a strong possibility Prince meant for it like that.

When did Prince "clown" Morris Day?

Do you mean the "wooden leg" dance, that essentially went unnoticed and completely flopped while every little kid at my school was doing "The Oak Tree"? Even then that just showed how personal Prince felt about Morris leaving the camp and having solo hits without him.

No I mean while in the Time/camp.
I thought the 'wooden leg' dance was mocking the Oak Tree dance?
That seemed like something he would do 2 the Time when they were together
I wonder how Jerome felt about it, since he was still friends with Morris.

.
Example at the March 8th 1982 First Ave show where the Time did a few songs and Prince had Morris play drums on Party Up. I guess the lie of who Jamie Starr was and did was still abounding. And he said things toward Morris and the Time like (I love this stuff lol)

.
After Prince & the noituloveR finishes Sexuality
.

Is Morris Day out there?

Where is he at?

Their managers who R our managers said that they wanted 2 play

U want them 2 play?

Listen
check this out
U can play if U want 2 alright

Let me tell U something

Don't shhhhh
Chick, Chick come here
We have a problem

him, he's a problem take him off

Where is Morris?

Where is he?
Did he leave? oh there he is
[Jesse cranks his guitar]

Ya'll can play, but let me tell U something

[Jerome:we're gonna play on your stuff]

Let't me tell U something
[Jesse cranks his guitar]
U can play, but this is my stage tonight alright

Chick, we got another problem lol

[Jerome:Fuck that]

[Jesse cranks his guitar]
Wait a minute! Turn him off!

[Jesse cranks his guitar]

[Jerome:It's his stage but were gonna turn it out]

If ya'll wanna play you gotta play some rock in roll

dont come up here playing that you know what

[Morris: say man why don't you take my comb you can use it, yeah what time is it anyway?...]

.

Prince & the noituloveR come back for PartyUp
(* I don't have the full show here @ work, I'll post what he said about Morris later:something like "you do look and sound like me")

I love this show

.

.

Morris also said things in his live show

1. INTRO

'church' organ playing -Morris Day talking

Ya'll have 2 excuse me

I was going to mention this earlier

Fella go on out there and take advantage of these kind hearts

That's right bring the house lights up, I like it like that

that way I can see who is giving and who ain't

Now as we know

Brother Prince played here a week or 2 ago

and from what they tell me

he charged $25 a head

I don't know about U but I stayed home that night

that is just a little steap\

No serious that's steap
I got money and everything
But I'd like 2 keep it that way

Thank U so much

Jerome Jerome where u at I need U Jerome

Anyone C Jerome
If they do send him back up to the stage

I know u....

Prince R U out there, did U give?

U took, Did U give?
Jerome where U at, I need U brother

Morris is waiting

I don't have all night

This is my show, this is my stage

Jerome did I get some phone numbers
tell me what I got

lol somebody stole em...

2.The Stick

3. Dance 2 the Beat

4. Oh Baby

5. Get It Up

6. Cool

CHAPTER 4: PAWNS

pg 54

Prince's relationship witht he members of the Time, meanwhile, had not improved greatly since the epic food fight. Against the wishes of the group members, who longed to write their own songs, Prince had recorded most of the Time's second album, What Time Is It?, on his own. Released in summer 1982, it was another success, reaching No. 2 on the Black Chart and going gold in the process. The single "777-9311," propelled by Prince's skillfull bass playing, became a modest hit. (it also created a hassle for Dez Dickerson, who had not know that his phone number was going to be used as the title of the song. When calls from strangers poured in at all hours of the night, he was forced to have it changed and circulate a new number to family and friends.) But the success of the song and album only underscored for th Time's members that they were Prince's puppets, and some began to consider quitting.

Prince, sensing resistance to his rule, tried to assert himself by complaining, without any basis whatsoever, that the Time was not performing strongly enough in concert.
"He would come in and get all over their case," remembered Roy Bennett." He would ride them heavily, and, obviously, when you're doing a great job and somone's telling you you're screwing up, you wonder, "What is this guy? What does he want?" It caused major tension.

Jam and Lewis, who unbeknownst to Prince had started doing production work for other groups on the side, wondered how long they could stand ahving their creativity sppressed. "I'm sure they felt that at some point he would loosen up the reins, but he never did," Bennett observed. "They're two very talented guys, and the last thing they wanted was to be told what to do all the time."

madhouseman said:

Some additional info on IF THE KID CAN’T MAKE YOU COME. The basic tracks were recorded on Saturday, April 16, 1983 in studio 2 at Sunset Sound. The session lasted from 4pm to 11pm and also included overdubs on Chili Sauce (which at the time was called ‘Proposition 17’). The work order for this and subsequent sessions lists the original track as ‘If the Boy Can’t Make You Come’ but that may have been an oversight. There is no indication that the track was ever recorded with alternate lyrics.

Additional overdubs and vocals continued on the following day and into the next week. If alternate lyrics were created, they were done during the following week.

If The Kid Can’t Make You Come was originally 9:13 in length but was edited down to 7:33.

These sessions should be noted for history because they were among the last before Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were fired by Prince.

This information is from an early draft of PRINCE: THE COMPLETE STUDIO SESSIONS (1983/84). For more info on the book and the upcoming release, go to https://www.facebook.com/...104195943/

Thanks 4 sharing this. And making a note

madhouseman said:

My guess is that Prince did this on purpose which is why The Time doesn't play the song that often. He was already commonly called 'The Kid' by a lot of people in the Prince camp long before Purple Rain came along.

The nickname ‘The Kid’ came from Dez Dickerson according to his 2003 autobiography “My Time With Prince.” “I was the one who coined the nickname many of us in the camp used – The Kid. I didn’t mean it as a slight or derogatory term. I always had respect for him beyond his – year’s instincts. The name seemed to fit. Obviously he agreed, because he would call himself by it in the movie.”

Prince’s managers also referred to him by this nickname, which was noticed by Al Magnoli, as he was working on the script for Purple Rain. “Cavallo, Ruffalo, and Fargnoli never referred to Prince as ‘Prince.’ They always said ‘the Kid.’ So I go, why don’t you call him by his name? They go ‘We hate the name. We call him the Kid.’ They would call him ‘the Kid’ to his face. When they were together they always called him the kid and I noticed other musicians were calling him the Kid so obviously he knew.”

This is information from my upcoming book PRINCE: The Complete Studio Sessions (1983/84).

Morris Day & The Time play that Song ALL THE TIME at Their Shows!!!

Nothing to do with Prince, nor his character in PR.

Its just a reference, much like "the boy" or "the man".

woogiebear said:

madhouseman said:

My guess is that Prince did this on purpose which is why The Time doesn't play the song that often. He was already commonly called 'The Kid' by a lot of people in the Prince camp long before Purple Rain came along.

The nickname ‘The Kid’ came from Dez Dickerson according to his 2003 autobiography “My Time With Prince.” “I was the one who coined the nickname many of us in the camp used – The Kid. I didn’t mean it as a slight or derogatory term. I always had respect for him beyond his – year’s instincts. The name seemed to fit. Obviously he agreed, because he would call himself by it in the movie.”

Prince’s managers also referred to him by this nickname, which was noticed by Al Magnoli, as he was working on the script for Purple Rain. “Cavallo, Ruffalo, and Fargnoli never referred to Prince as ‘Prince.’ They always said ‘the Kid.’ So I go, why don’t you call him by his name? They go ‘We hate the name. We call him the Kid.’ They would call him ‘the Kid’ to his face. When they were together they always called him the kid and I noticed other musicians were calling him the Kid so obviously he knew.”

This is information from my upcoming book PRINCE: The Complete Studio Sessions (1983/84).

Morris Day & The Time play that Song ALL THE TIME at Their Shows!!!

I need to amend my original thought. The song does get played, but only at about half of their shows. (http://www.setlist.fm/setlists/the-time-7bd6c264.html). Good catch.

i always thought Prince, obviously being a big fan of Richard Pryor, just copped that off of one of Richard's routines where he says "naww, ah, ah, not the kid". Also, who knows, sometimes he wrote songs for other people and ended up keeping them and sometimes it may have went in the other direction. I've heard International lover was for morris but he decided to keep it thank god because morris was a very limited singer.

funksterr said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well the way Prince clowned Morris Day it is a strong possibility Prince meant for it like that.

When did Prince "clown" Morris Day?

Do you mean the "wooden leg" dance, that essentially went unnoticed and completely flopped while every little kid at my school was doing "The Oak Tree"? Even then that just showed how personal Prince felt about Morris leaving the camp and having solo hits without him.

morris had solo hits?

PeteSilas said:

morris had solo hits?

Billboard: November 2, 1985

12" singles

Black Singles

Black Albums

Hot 100

wow, it's even higher than tarzan boy.

PeteSilas said:

i always thought Prince, obviously being a big fan of Richard Pryor, just copped that off of one of Richard's routines where he says "naww, ah, ah, not the kid". Also, who knows, sometimes he wrote songs for other people and ended up keeping them and sometimes it may have went in the other direction. I've heard International lover was for morris but he decided to keep it thank god because morris was a very limited singer.

I would love to hear a version by the Time.
I think Prince should have given that one to the Time and added a different song for 1999.

PeteSilas said:

wow, it's even higher than tarzan boy.

It's only a one week chart. Anyway, during that time a R&B song had to be really big on the then called Black Chart before Top 40 pop stations would start playing it, called crossover. The Oak Tree was still a relatively new song at this point and the album had been on the chart 2 weeks. When you see a circle around a number it means the sales are increasing and likely the next week it will be higher. It's #3 on the 12" chart, which means some people wanted the long version rather than the short edit on a 45. Maxi singles were not counted on the other singles charts, which only counted 45s and radio airplay. This is why a lot of early rap singles did not chart on the regular charts because they were only released on 12".