EmmaMcG said:

laurarichardson said:

I know that the only black people that care about Westerns are people my parents age. People in there 70s. I never said he did not know who Billy the Kid was or look at westerns but for the time he came up in I would bet money he was not checking out westerns but was watching "SuperFly"!!! Black and White movies from the 20s and 30s has nothing to do with Westerns. While we can all say we don't see color Prince grew up in the 60s and 70s in a hyper segregated city. His early years would have been informed by his community and peers. As usual on this board the influence of the African-American community is be dispealled.

My ex is 28 and black and his favourite movie is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly so I don't think it's quite fair to say that no young black people like westerns. But that's all besides the point. The original question asked in this thread was why Morris was singing about Prince's character from Purple Rain. I have read in a Prince biography that the song was NOT about the character in the movie and that MD is referring to himself as the Kid. Assuming that to be true, why is it important if that came from black culture or white culture?

I was actully speaking of Generations X and people around P's age. Westerns have not been big at box office in decades. You millianals are on some next level shit so anything with you is possible.

[Edited 7/20/16 11:08am]

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think you might be creating a social economic picture of Prince & Morris that isn't true.
You think only certain people knew of Billy the Kid? Who from those times 'black white other' did not watch Westerns? And Prince was from the start very much into a lot of diverse images people genre etc He didn't get into the 1940 movies & starlettes in 1985 before creating a movie based on an imagined 1940 French set. Prince was a huge Charlie Chaplin fan.

And even Prince said he circle of friends and connections always reached to black and white people. He wasn't segregated in his intake of culture music & films at all.

I know that the only black people that care about Westerns are people my parents age. People in their 70s. I never said he did not know who Billy the Kid was or looked ata westerns but for the time he came up in I would bet money he was not checking out westerns but was watching "SuperFly"!!! Black and White movies from the 20s and 30s has nothing to do with Westerns. While we can all say we don't see color Prince grew up in the 60s and 70s in a hyper segregated city. His early years would have been informed by his community and peers. As usual on this board the influence of the African-American community on his outlook and work is be dispelled which is absurd do really think his background had no influence on his music. [Edited 7/20/16 10:39am]

U are blowing this way up.... TV ALBUMs MOVIES give people (black & white) access to the world beyond them.
No one said Prince doesn't see color. And the use of 'KID' is something many different ethnic groups use. It's used in dance and gay culture too always. 'the Kids'
You are flame baiting about race on this board.
No one said he did not use things from African-American culture. But the use of Kid still was a common American. thing and African-American is still and American expression from a certain cultural experience, probably more urban than rural.

Again you seem to be placing 'assumptions' on race. Prince was big into films from the 40s so why not Westerns. Aren't they from the 40s too?
Coming from wide diverse social group and in my 40s I can tell you KID was a common term.

[Edited 7/20/16 12:12pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said: I know that the only black people that care about Westerns are people my parents age. People in their 70s. I never said he did not know who Billy the Kid was or looked ata westerns but for the time he came up in I would bet money he was not checking out westerns but was watching "SuperFly"!!! Black and White movies from the 20s and 30s has nothing to do with Westerns. While we can all say we don't see color Prince grew up in the 60s and 70s in a hyper segregated city. His early years would have been informed by his community and peers. As usual on this board the influence of the African-American community on his outlook and work is be dispelled which is absurd do really think his background had no influence on his music. [Edited 7/20/16 10:39am]

U are blowing this way up.... TV ALBUMs MOVIES give people (black & white) access to the world beyond them.
No one said Prince doesn't see color. And the use of 'KID' is something many different ethnic groups use. It's used in dance and gay culture too always. 'the Kids'
You are flame baiting about race on this board.
No one said he did not use things from African-American culture. But the use of Kid still was a common American. thing and African-American is still and American expression from a certain cultural experience, probably more urban than rural.

Again you seem to be placing 'assumptions' on race. Prince was big into films from the 40s so why not Westerns. Aren't they from the 40s too?
Coming from wide diverse social group and in my 40s I can tell you KID was a common term.

[Edited 7/20/16 12:12pm]

No one flame baiting anything about race. Mentioning race is not flame baiting and this is one of the many reason why we have racial problems in the country right now. No one wants to talks honestly about it and would rather pretend we are all the same. We are not all the same. Things go on in different culture that other cultures have no clue about. I have my opinion you have yours but I think I might know a little bit more about what is going on in my culture than you do.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

U are blowing this way up.... TV ALBUMs MOVIES give people (black & white) access to the world beyond them.
No one said Prince doesn't see color. And the use of 'KID' is something many different ethnic groups use. It's used in dance and gay culture too always. 'the Kids'
You are flame baiting about race on this board.
No one said he did not use things from African-American culture. But the use of Kid still was a common American. thing and African-American is still and American expression from a certain cultural experience, probably more urban than rural.

Again you seem to be placing 'assumptions' on race. Prince was big into films from the 40s so why not Westerns. Aren't they from the 40s too?
Coming from wide diverse social group and in my 40s I can tell you KID was a common term.

[Edited 7/20/16 12:12pm]

No one flame baiting anything about race. Mentioning race is not flame baiting and this is one of the many reason why we have racial problems in the country right now. No one wants to talks honestly about it and would rather pretend we are all the same. We are not all the same. Things go on in different culture that other cultures have no clue about. I have my opinion you have yours but I think I might know a little bit more about what is going on in my culture than you do.

there you go assuming...

EmmaMcG said:

My ex is 28 and black and his favourite movie is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly so I don't think it's quite fair to say that no young black people like westerns.

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

U know, I haven't made love in so long
But with U, I know it would be just like riding a bike
I'd remember everything I've ever learned
Baby, if the Kid can't make U come, nobody can
(Morris)
Yeah
(17)
Oh, um
What's it gonna be, baby?

If The Kid Can't Make You Come was written by Prince under the pseudonym Jamie Starr, but was credited on the album to Morris Day. It was co-produced by Morris Day and Prince under the name The Starr Company. Prince plays most instruments on the track.

Initial tracking took place on 16 April, 1983 at Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA (two days after Chili Sauce (as Proposition #17), the day before Chocolate). While reflecting about the song's history on Facebook in 2014, Jesse Johnson stated:

"Morris who is a very, very gifted drummer went in sat down to play "Kid", but he kept speeding up Prince tried it, he kept speeding up too! So we got this brilliant idea, when looking back at it now it's funny the P and I thought this was a really good resolution. Morris out of the three of us was the only one that had a drink now and again, or let me put it clearer, Morris was the only one that knew how to drink. P & I were real amateurs, honestly ... Prince & I drank a glass of wine or my case a glass of WHINE! (ohh my head the room is spinning, I don't feel well, etc, etc) will I'm playing the DRUMS on "The Kid" and of course all guitars."

"The Kid" mentioned in the song's title is a deliberate reference to Prince's character "The Kid" in the Purple Rain movie, in which The Time appeared as The Kid's nemesis.

-PrinceVault

If the kid can't make you come (7:33)
recorded 14th-22th April 1983 by [Prince] with [Morris Day] & [Jesse Johnson] at Sunset Sound [7] • performed by [Prince](all instruments) with [Morris Day](lead vocals), [Jesse Johnson] (guitar/drums) & Sharon Hughes (background vocals) • final mixing January 1984 at Sunset Sound [7]
written by [Prince] (uncredited) • registered to [Prince] (as Jamie Starr)
finally released 1984 on the Album [Ice Cream Castle]

If the kid can't make you come (7:33)

You like my crib, baby?
Well, come a little closer. Don't be shy.

Darlin', I want you so bad. I can almost taste the smell of your skin.
And honey, I'd be so sad, if you didn't break down and let me in.
You better let me in, baby. Don't you know ...

If the Kid can't make you come, nobody can.

Am I gettin' through, baby?

Sweetheart, I can be gentle as a lamb. If that's what gets you off.
I wanna get you off, baby.
And lover, straddle my brass and we'll dance in the land of the hard and soft.
I don't care, baby. Whatever gets you off?

If the kid can't make you come, nobody can.

Need I say more, baby?
Do you wanna straddle my brass?

If the kid can't make you come, nobody ...

That's a pretty blouse.
.... Thank you.
Take it off.
.... Is that better?
A little bit, I'd rather see it live in concert though.
.... Well, I'll tell you what, cutie. I'll let you take that off.
Oh yes!
This little hook went to Holland. This little hook went to France.
This little hook went to London. And this little hook went to...
.... Uhmm.
Oh Lord! Honey, don't you ever try and breastfeed no baby.
.... Why not?
Never mind. What time is it?
.... Titty time.
I know that's right.
.... Uhmm.

What's my name?
.... Morris.
No, come on baby, what's my real name?
.... Uuh, uh, uhh.
Talk to me, talk to me.
.... M ... Mo ... Mor ... Morris!
Yes! Oh baby, you're just too sexy.
.... Morris?
Yeah baby.
.... What's my name?
It's baby, ain't it?
.... Oh Morris, what's my ...
Ah ga ga ga ga!
.... Oh, Morris!
Too sexy!

I bet you never thought I'd be this good, did you?

Let me hear the pledge of allegiance, baby.
.... What do you mean?
You know, like you used to do in school.
.... You got to be kidding. I guess you're not.
Come on baby, Morris is listening.
.... OK... I pledge allegiance ... to the flag... of the United States... of America ...
.... and to the republic... for which it stands.
Oh Lord! You're just too sexy.
.... Uuh.
Ain't nobody bad like me?

EmmaMcG said:

MickyDolenz said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

laurarichardson said:

EmmaMcG said:

laurarichardson said:

EmmaMcG said:

laurarichardson said:

I know that the only black people that care about Westerns are people my parents age. People in there 70s. I never said he did not know who Billy the Kid was or look at westerns but for the time he came up in I would bet money he was not checking out westerns but was watching "SuperFly"!!! Black and White movies from the 20s and 30s has nothing to do with Westerns. While we can all say we don't see color Prince grew up in the 60s and 70s in a hyper segregated city. His early years would have been informed by his community and peers. As usual on this board the influence of the African-American community is be dispealled.

My ex is 28 and black and his favourite movie is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly so I don't think it's quite fair to say that no young black people like westerns. But that's all besides the point. The original question asked in this thread was why Morris was singing about Prince's character from Purple Rain. I have read in a Prince biography that the song was NOT about the character in the movie and that MD is referring to himself as the Kid. Assuming that to be true, why is it important if that came from black culture or white culture?

I was actully speaking of Generations X and people around P's age. Westerns have not been big at box office in decades. You millianals are on some next level shit so anything with you is possible.

[Edited 7/20/16 11:08am]

I can't tell if you're being serious or not but you ARE quite amusing, whether you mean to be or not.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

U know, I haven't made love in so long
But with U, I know it would be just like riding a bike
I'd remember everything I've ever learned
Baby, if the Kid can't make U come, nobody can
(Morris)
Yeah
(17)
Oh, um
What's it gonna be, baby?

If The Kid Can't Make You Come was written by Prince under the pseudonym Jamie Starr, but was credited on the album to Morris Day. It was co-produced by Morris Day and Prince under the name The Starr Company. Prince plays most instruments on the track.

Initial tracking took place on 16 April, 1983 at Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA (two days after Chili Sauce (as Proposition #17), the day before Chocolate). While reflecting about the song's history on Facebook in 2014, Jesse Johnson stated:

"The Kid" mentioned in the song's title is a deliberate reference to Prince's character "The Kid" in the Purple Rain movie, in which The Time appeared as The Kid's nemesis.

-PrinceVault

--- You win Morris is singing the whole song to some girl telling how great P is in bed despite the fact that Morris his referencing himself in the song. I have no idea why they keep "the Kid" in song title but you running on all levels of crazy if you think Morris is signing about Prince in that song!!! This is exactly what I meant about the utter "lameness" of this board.

Well the way Prince clowned Morris Day it is a strong possibility Prince meant for it like that.

Why don't you leave the board if it is so lame to you. It's tired.

laurarichardson said:

MickyDolenz said:

--- I never said black westerns were never made I said the are not popular and you prove my point by putting up a bunch of box offices bombs. Buck and Precher is dencent but rest are awful. I would bet Prince skipping out on these flicks when he was teenager and going to see Shaft and SuperFly.

These are just another sign that oop African-Americans watch(ed) Westerns.

Why are you trying to create your own socialeconomic Prince?

He loved Charlie Chapman too

laurarichardson said:

EmmaMcG said:

I can't tell if you're being serious or not but you ARE quite amusing, whether you mean to be or not.

--- Westerns have not done well at the box office for years 100% sure about that. I will not even get started on Millianals. Not enough time or typing space on this board.

I have yet to read one real review of the Time albums especially Ice Cream Castles... that I can recall.

Someone has had to have asked the question to Morris or Prince

I'm pretty sure Prince wrote the song for MJ, after reading about those watergun and tickle parties with Emmanuel Lewis.

funksterr said:

I'm pretty sure Prince wrote the song for MJ, after reading about those watergun and tickle parties with Emmanuel Lewis.

OMG that is terrible and yet damn funny. lol

My guess is that Prince did this on purpose which is why The Time doesn't play the song that often. He was already commonly called 'The Kid' by a lot of people in the Prince camp long before Purple Rain came along.

The nickname ‘The Kid’ came from Dez Dickerson according to his 2003 autobiography “My Time With Prince.” “I was the one who coined the nickname many of us in the camp used – The Kid. I didn’t mean it as a slight or derogatory term. I always had respect for him beyond his – year’s instincts. The name seemed to fit. Obviously he agreed, because he would call himself by it in the movie.”

Prince’s managers also referred to him by this nickname, which was noticed by Al Magnoli, as he was working on the script for Purple Rain. “Cavallo, Ruffalo, and Fargnoli never referred to Prince as ‘Prince.’ They always said ‘the Kid.’ So I go, why don’t you call him by his name? They go ‘We hate the name. We call him the Kid.’ They would call him ‘the Kid’ to his face. When they were together they always called him the kid and I noticed other musicians were calling him the Kid so obviously he knew.”

This is information from my upcoming book PRINCE: The Complete Studio Sessions (1983/84).

laurarichardson????

Did U read that?

U C how U made such a racial social economic thing out of something that so was not?

laurarichardson????

madhouseman said:

My guess is that Prince did this on purpose which is why The Time doesn't play the song that often. He was already commonly called 'The Kid' by a lot of people in the Prince camp long before Purple Rain came along.

The nickname ‘The Kid’ came from Dez Dickerson according to his 2003 autobiography “My Time With Prince.” “I was the one who coined the nickname many of us in the camp used – The Kid. I didn’t mean it as a slight or derogatory term. I always had respect for him beyond his – year’s instincts. The name seemed to fit. Obviously he agreed, because he would call himself by it in the movie.”

Prince’s managers also referred to him by this nickname, which was noticed by Al Magnoli, as he was working on the script for Purple Rain. “Cavallo, Ruffalo, and Fargnoli never referred to Prince as ‘Prince.’ They always said ‘the Kid.’ So I go, why don’t you call him by his name? They go ‘We hate the name. We call him the Kid.’ They would call him ‘the Kid’ to his face. When they were together they always called him the kid and I noticed other musicians were calling him the Kid so obviously he knew.”

This is information from my upcoming book PRINCE: The Complete Studio Sessions (1983/84).

Purple soldiers always come through!!!
Thank U, I knew there had 2 B some information or background on this.
Now we need to talk 2 Morris Jesse or whoever else was connected with the song...

Some additional info on IF THE KID CAN’T MAKE YOU COME. The basic tracks were recorded on Saturday, April 16, 1983 in studio 2 at Sunset Sound. The session lasted from 4pm to 11pm and also included overdubs on Chili Sauce (which at the time was called ‘Proposition 17’). The work order for this and subsequent sessions lists the original track as ‘If the Boy Can’t Make You Come’ but that may have been an oversight. There is no indication that the track was ever recorded with alternate lyrics.

Additional overdubs and vocals continued on the following day and into the next week. If alternate lyrics were created, they were done during the following week.

If The Kid Can’t Make You Come was originally 9:13 in length but was edited down to 7:33.

These sessions should be noted for history because they were among the last before Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were fired by Prince.

This information is from an early draft of PRINCE: THE COMPLETE STUDIO SESSIONS (1983/84). For more info on the book and the upcoming release, go to https://www.facebook.com/...104195943/

MattyJam said:

I mean, The Kid is Prince's character in PR, so why would Morris be saying to a lady "if Prince can't make you come then nobody can"?

Very odd.

I'm pretty sure I saw a video of Brett Ratner with MJ in his backseat poppin and locking to If The Kid Can't Make You Come. Reasonably sure I saw it... I think.

madhouseman said:

My guess is that Prince did this on purpose which is why The Time doesn't play the song that often. He was already commonly called 'The Kid' by a lot of people in the Prince camp long before Purple Rain came along.

The nickname ‘The Kid’ came from Dez Dickerson according to his 2003 autobiography “My Time With Prince.” “I was the one who coined the nickname many of us in the camp used – The Kid. I didn’t mean it as a slight or derogatory term. I always had respect for him beyond his – year’s instincts. The name seemed to fit. Obviously he agreed, because he would call himself by it in the movie.”

Prince’s managers also referred to him by this nickname, which was noticed by Al Magnoli, as he was working on the script for Purple Rain. “Cavallo, Ruffalo, and Fargnoli never referred to Prince as ‘Prince.’ They always said ‘the Kid.’ So I go, why don’t you call him by his name? They go ‘We hate the name. We call him the Kid.’ They would call him ‘the Kid’ to his face. When they were together they always called him the kid and I noticed other musicians were calling him the Kid so obviously he knew.”

This is information from my upcoming book PRINCE: The Complete Prince's character sStudio Sessions (1983/84).

Assuming Prince originally wrote the song for himself.... that doesn't make it weird in how he repurposed it for The Time, just as he repurposed all types of songs no matter who wrote them for himself (Do Me Baby, DMSR, International Lover, Lolita, Betcha By Golly Wow, Partyup, Kiss, etc) and associated artists. It was still a popular phrase to refer to yourself as the kid, before describing something cool or amazing you were going to do, Prince was known to write songs around popular trends (Let's Rock instead of Let's Work) so either way... it isn't weird.