SensualMelody said:

you're funny!

Anxiety and hectim..I feel your pain...I work with one of those 'vegetarians' and she drives me UP THE WALL!!

blueangel...thanks, I AM cute!

sensual melody, great post!! i'm weird with chicken...i can't stand eating drumsticks, i simply can't do it. they're freaking LEGS.

and i actually DO think cow when i look at a burger...my biggest problem with ground beef is seeing it at the grocery store...my roommate sent me out for some a few weeks ago so we could have tacos and i haven't been the same since.

more funny vegetarian info: i have two close friends who are actual, hard-core (yet not pushy) vegetarians...and both of them used to love to eat RAW GROUND BEEF.

oh my LORD.

Shorty said:

It was a very vegetarian way of saying it yeah but also very factual as opposed to the general meat eater's ignorance is bliss routine of downplaying the story with nice little buy off the counter names like "sausage" and "burger" etc.
[This message was edited Tue May 20 7:22:42 PDT 2003 by Essence]

theblueangel said:

I rarely crave meat any moe since i've been vegie for so long. But when I do, I always crave my mom's microwaved meatloaf...how odd is that...I could never do it tho...maybe I should just have a lentil loaf when that happens!

endorphin74 said:

On the increasingly rare occasions I have a craving for meat, it's always something really crappy and cheap (not that your mom's microwave meatloaf is crappy or cheap, mind you). I tell everyone that if I ever decide to fall off the wagon, the first place I'm going is White Castle - I used to LOVE those greasy nasty lard sliders!

This thread is making me hungry. Some good old-fashioned cow-burgers sure would hit the spot. With a side of piglet. mmm

Universaluv said:

Go hunt, kill, skin, gut, prepare, cook and eat some then.

Essence said:

Yeah right, I'll do that as soon as vegetarians grow all their own food.

Universaluv, just out of curiosity, why all the animosity towards vegetarians?

I got no animosity towards vegetarians, I know some cool ones. I've got animosity towards the idea that I should go out kill my own food, which is what I was responding to, but vegetarians in general I have no problem with.

Universaluv said:

Where's the universal love show regarding the animal's right to freedom?

I love animals. I love beef, pork, poultry. All the major food groups.

Universaluv said:

So the universal love extends to canibalism?

i guess the original point of this thread is that folks over at the ol' npgmc corral are seemingly latchin on 2 the idea of vegetarianism just p has been practicin it and they wanna be hip 2 the whole thing and seem like they're doin right by 'im or what-not. thing is, that ain't the way it goes at all.


hopefully ya'll can understand what i'm tryin 2 say... rock on, no matter whatcha choose 2 eat.

Canabilism? Despite what you have may heard, I am neither beef, poultry, nor pork. Therefore, it ain't canabilism. Trust me, if a chicken was hungry enough he'd take you out in a second.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Well I don't think anybody says that following Prince's lead on all things is a good idea. We both know JW conversions within the Prince community will have seen a steep rise since 1998 though.

Universaluv said:

They would yeah and who could blame him after the imprisonment and genocide implemented against his kin by the humans?

Seriously though humans are supposed to be on some high ethical plane, we're either just an equally "primitive" member of animal kingdom (equal rights to all animals) or we are on a higher level which in turn you'd hope would result in a caring compassionate attitude to "lower" life forms...

There's always gonna be a faction that wants to go along with whatever he's into. At least it's not assless pants.

Hey Essence I hear what you're saying and at a fundamental we're gonna disagree about this. We just have a different understanding of humanity's relationship towards other creatures. Whatever, that's cool.

Essence said:

Essence said:

true...monkey-see-monkey-do ain't cool.


but then again, there's probably folks who were rockin jw way before p even considered it...

Universaluv said:

VERY GOOD POINT!

Shorty said:

There is something wrong with it. I agree that hunting is less horrible than buying factory farmed animal products, but I have never met a person who killed for fun who I thought was a very good person. Just my personal experience.

As far as the supermarket flesh, it came from an animal who lived a miserable life and died a brutal death. Not only do you not need to eat it, it's actually bad for your health. AND bad for the environment. You are financially supporting all of this each time you buy flesh at a supermarket. What gives you the right to cause all of that suffering? Do you believe that might makes right? Really?

I appreciate blueangel's perspective. I was like that for a long time--wanted to be veggie, but just hadn't really taken the steps. Eventually, I just didn't enjoy eating things that came packaged will all of that suffering, and I stopped, and I'm happier for it.

As far as, "to each his own," I don't believe that. What if people had said that about people owning slaves or opressing women? No, when there is a victim involved, you don't have a right to your opinion. I know that is a controversial position, but nobody has yet been able to tell me why it's wrong, though many have tried.

Essence said:

wow! should I feel insulted? I don't but...geesh! As endorphine74 pointed out ALL things are marketed with "appealing" names...including tofu..so...why suddenly it's the "meat eater's ignorance is bliss routine" is beyond me.
the word "meat" is very factual too.
I hope no one is thinking that I'm being rude or defensive? well, sure I'm defending my right to eat meat but I don't feel as though I'm trying to convince anyone they should change thier ways.

Shorty said:

Nah, you're cool. It's just that you DON'T have an unqualified right to eat animals; you're infringing upon their rights when you do so.

They can't stand up for themselves, so some of us feel that we have to do it for them.

That's all.

Shorty said:

Not really. When vegetarians say this, it's not to say that you are too lazy to kill your own food. It's to say that (many of) you couldn't stomach it if you had to. You are paying somebody to do something that you yourself couldn't bear to do, but claiming it's ok. That is hypocritical.

Shorty, in your case, that doesn't really apply. Or at least in your husband's case.

Vegetarians could grow our own food, we have no problem with it. It's not the same issue.

tackam said:[quote]

Shorty said:

well golly G! thanx for insult! oh wait..you've never met my husband so I guess he's not included in your "not good people" category?


ok...so a broccoli plant IS Alive right? and it's only reason for being was to be brutally hacked down and consumed! OH THE HORROR!
If all we ate was meat...24/7 then yes..it would be bad for you...but other than that...it's no worse than that cigarette you're smoking or that soda you're drinking..specially if it's "diet". Venison is MUCH better for you than beef. Bad for the environment? ok...if you say so. So I guess you only by locally grown organic produce from your local farmer?


see...and the difference between me and you is I can appreciate YOU and Blue's point of view...even though it differs from mine.


we're not talking about slaves or opressing women Apple=Apple Orange=Orange. I do have a right to an opinion...no matter what you think.

funny how many a comment is made on how the meat eaters get all defensive but...the only people so far who have said that there IS something WRONG with others are the vegitarians. I never once said anyone should or should not be a vegitarian, I never insulted anyone here who spoke thier veiws on it...yet twice now...I've felt slapped in the face. that's fine...I see how it goes.

Shorty said:[quote]

tackam said:

If you feel slapped in the face by the truth, sorry, but there's nothing I can do about that. I haven't said anything bad about you.

We are talking about harming others who are unable to stop us. We are talking about causing suffering. If you are going to say that the issue aren't parallel, you're going to have to say WHY. People have written whole books trying to do just that, and they have failed. But I encourage you to try.

I do think there is something wrong with purchasing animal products, yes. Not only with ME doing it, but with YOU doing it. As I said, there are victims here. This isn't a matter of opinion, like what is your favorite color. This is a matter of living, sentient beings being brutalized. It's not a trivial matter of opinion. Like it or not.

(Oh, and yes, I do buy locally grown organic produce. But even if I didn't, that's not an excuse to do whatever I want. Doing one wrong thing doesn't make it ok to do lots more wrong things. AND, even if the environmental argumetns didn't apply, the cruelty ones still would).

Shorty if your husband hunts and kills for the fun of it rather than just to get food then yeah I probably would pre-judge him and his character to a degree. As said before though the meat eater who can do the killing and preparation at least can't be called a hypocrite regarding the whole slaughter process.

As for the "Why is it the vegetarians who are the ones passing judgment?" question, it's because they see a victim. What reason would meat eaters have to condemn vegetarians for their dietary/lifestyle choices?

Shorty said:

Okay I have played part in growing, collecting and eating vegetables, how many meat eaters can claim they've also done likewise with an animal?