simonew said:

Prince has always been magical but never as magical as he is in the summer of 2011.

Bullcrap. Horse manure.

BartVanHemelen said:

simonew said:

Prince has always been magical but never as magical as he is in the summer of 2011.

Bullcrap. Horse manure.

Have u been at one of his concerts of the current tour?

If not u should stfu on this.

BartVanHemelen said:

simonew said:

Prince has always been magical but never as magical as he is in the summer of 2011.

Bullcrap. Horse manure.

Well if someone thinks that he is, because that's how she felt about the concerts why saying it's bullcrap?

purplethunder3121 said:

Jim Walsh could just re-send his open letter to Prince from 2000 .... as pretty much all of the things mentioned ring true for 2011.

...and correct me if I'm wrong, but a year later in 2001 Prince released the Rainbow Children, which was far superior to the throwaway crap 'High album' which he was trying to offload to any record company that would take it in 2000.

Bart might have to back me up and confirm those dates.

the letter...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
June 2, 2000
Open letter to Prince: Best gift you can give is a great new record

JIM WALSH POP MUSIC CRITIC

Dear Prince,

Have I got that right? I hear that's what they're calling you these days, because that's what you've told them to call you. Great news; people who haven't been interested in you in years are suddenly interested again. Prince is back, and all that.

Well, remember me? I'm the guy who, for the past seven years, has called you The Artist Formerly Known As Prince, The Artist, TAFKAP, and once, Taffy. I'm the one who stuck up for you, who wrote all that glowing stuff in this newspaper and in the liner notes to your album "The Gold Experience" (I got paid exactly one dollar because I didn't want to go there with you), and now that we're on the cusp of your birthday Wednesday, and a sold-out week-long party out at Paisley Park called "Prince: A Celebration", I need to ask what, exactly, are we celebrating?

Are we celebrating the fact that you haven't made a great record, one that the entire world cared about, in years? That your live show has turned into a stale, predictable -- if phenomenally well-played, as always -- set of oldies and covers? that several lesser lights have made off with your crown because you've been distracted from the task at hand (making music that describes right now) by music industry-grousing, name changes, cryptic religious questions but no answers and hype over artistry?

Count me out, even though my party invitation seems to have been lost in the mail. I'm probably on your enemies list now, because I was only moved by a few songs off your last few records ("Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic", "New Power Soul", and "Crystal Ball"), and I wrote as much.

Then again, maybe you're not mad at me. Maybe it's just that you've moved on, and you're done with me. But I'm not done with you. I care too much, and your music has meant too much to me to stop caring now.

But there are plenty of people who don't care. Almost everyone I know thinks you're cooked. Don't you want to prove them wrong? Forget them, don't you want to surprise yourself? Don't you want to make one more record that nails it, that truly says something and feels innovative? Why don't you get really, truly, weird again -- as weird ass the times demand -- and take us on another journey, not a flashback lunch?

Make no mistake, this is a challenge. I am writing to reach you. And it may be presumptuous for a lowly rock critic to attempt to tell one of the great artists of our time to wake up and smell the muse, but I happen to think that great artists are like great chefs: They've got all the skills and ingredients, but they don't know what we're hungry for if we don't tell them. And, given the state of mainstream music at the moment, I am starved.

So here's the deal: For your birthday, I want a gift. I don't want an interview, or a tour of Paisley Park, or the hem of your garment. I want a great record. What you do best. Something real. Something that blows these say-nothing boy bands and bimbos, divas and playas, out of the water once and for all. And in case you haven't noticed, we could use it because these are strange days, indeed. To wit:

Last Friday, I was sitting at the Loring Bar watching a pretty cool jazz outfit, Moveable Feast, and listened to DJ Wicked spin. Three of the four people I was with admitted that they walk around this town in fear of getting shot.

Why don't you call up Paul Westerberg, another Minneapolis genius your age who is going through his own struggle with silence and relevance, a guy who I'd rather hear blow into two pop bottles on a boom box than most of the stuff that passes ofr "rock" these days, and do "Ebony and Ivory" for the double-oughts?

Where's your updating of "Money Don't Matter 2nite" for this cash-obsessed nation? Do you have another "Adore", the greatest love song the world doesn't know about, in you? Does another "Race" or "Uptown" percolate somewhere deep inside -- something that seeks to unite the melting pot even as it feels like it's about to boil over?

You wrote "We Gets Up" for Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. How about one for Malik Sealy, and our heartbroken, wounded Wolves, that captures that specific sense of dread and fan-grief that nobody's been able to express with words? How about a grand epic about this technology grog, and how it both fragments and bonds us? Or what about something small, something we can all relate to, about marriage trouble or the death of a loved one?

We are waiting, have been waiting, for your contribution. Instead, we get more funk, joy in repetition, and something called "Cybersingle". Which is fine. But heavens to Bootsy, we already know you're funky and computer-savvy and cutting-edge and all that. What we need are some songs that express what is in our hearts, minds, souls. Some greatness.

Maybe you're resting, or burned out, or in a fortysomething funk, waiting for the songs to come. I can relate. Been there. But you're the one who said, "Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to get through this thing called life", and I feel like I'm going to need machetes to get through the next 10 years, so it'd be nice if you had my back along the way.

And if you're afraid that your best work is behind you -- and who could blame you if you did, after all the great stuff you've given the world? -- remember this: When they were in their early 40's, Elvis and John Coltrane were dead and Elton was coasting, but Bob Dylan made "Infidels", Neil Young made "Freedom", Marvin Gaye made "Here, My Dear", Tom Waits made "Bone Machine", Lou Reed make "New York", John Lennon made "Double Fantasy", Madonna made "Ray of Light", Van Morrison made "No Guru, No Method, No Teacher" and Miles Davis made "Bitches Brew".

So do me a favor. Don't ignore this. When you perform at Northrop Auditorium next Tuesday, don't do an oldie's show, which I already fear you're working up. Show us that you're paying attention.l Seize the moment.

Do you have anything left to say? If not, get out of the way. Don't tease us, because it hurts too much. And don't pretend that you care, because if you cared the way Prince used to care, you'd go into your studio and pull an all-weeker, shake yourself up, throw out the formulas that go you (us) here, splash your canvas with all the desperation, ennui and hope of the age, and set the world on fire again.

May U live 2 see the dawn,

Jim Walsh

^-

-insane this letter!

-On a enemy list?

-Desperation?

-What is this all about?

MyJobIz2beCute said:

^-

-insane this letter!

-On a enemy list?

-Desperation?

-What is this all about?

You dont know who Jim Walsh is? ...do you own The Gold Experience?

[Edited 8/18/11 19:56pm]

johnny2000 said:

MyJobIz2beCute said:

^-

-insane this letter!

-On a enemy list?

-Desperation?

-What is this all about?

You dont know who Jim Walsh is? ...do you own The Gold Experience?

[Edited 8/18/11 19:56pm]

^-

-In the letter, old boy is talking about being some kind of enemy.

-What is up, with that?!

Well, Jürgen does have a point somewhat, in that his recent live shows indeed lack some kind of concept.

I, too, went to see him on the One Nite Alone tour in Frankfurt and later on also in Oberhausen, and I was on a Prince-high the following days and weeks! Those two shows were the best concerts I've ever seen by anybody, and I've seen the likes of James Brown, Maceo Parker, the Stones, The Eagles, Eric Clapton, George Michael...you name them, I've seen them

The thing about the Rainbow Children album and also the subsequent ONA tour was that it was somewhat controversial, it was edgy! Sure, it may not have been everybodys cup of tea, but back then he was still challening us, his listeners!

This is indeed something I find lacking in his recent work. I'm not saying that he's just going through the motions, because he's not...but he's still playing it a bit safer than he used to!

Just my 2 cents...

I agree with whomever said you need to find another artist to follow.

I get that you're disappointed, but my feeling is you don't know what you've got.

Philly76 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Bullcrap. Horse manure.

Have u been at one of his concerts of the current tour?

If not u should stfu on this.

Have you Bart?

Give us a list of the last ten shows you've seen. And not on video, but actually went there.

"Words r like shoes"

Do u dig???????

Prince is always correct----now go listen to "GIRL" again-u hater!!!

Philly76 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Bullcrap. Horse manure.

Have u been at one of his concerts of the current tour?

If not u should stfu on this.

People have been saying this for years, and they were always lying. His 1980s tours were magical. This latest one? Slightly less shitty than previous years, but that's all.

JeePee said:

Philly76 said:

Have u been at one of his concerts of the current tour?

If not u should stfu on this.

Have you Bart?

Give us a list of the last ten shows you've seen. And not on video, but actually went there.

Anyone who claims this tour is better than Controversy/1999/Purple rain/Parade/SOTT/Lovesexy is NUTS.

RodeoSchro said:

I agree with whomever said you need to find another artist to follow.

I get that you're disappointed, but my feeling is you don't know what you've got.

Believe me, I'd be already happy if Prince would perform like others do.

I've been to a Radiohead concert in 2008, and Tom Yorke is surely no show man, rather the opposite. But they performed intensely, sound was great and their stage show was great too, they had a kind of light curtain on stage and used it matching to the songs. Maybe there's still a video of "weird fishes" on YouTube, check it out. I felt like I was in a real musical concert and not in a kind of Robinson club's tourist animation......ok, must admit they came with a brilliant new album "in rainbows", but anyway, Prince could do so much better if he wanted too, that's the point.

V10LETBLUES said:

Oh, come now. You sound more than a little naively bitter.

At fifty-something Prince is still the best live act on the road. Even if we compare fifty-year-old Prince with his twenty-something year old self he still comes off pretty damn great.

Veej said:

... Of course he knows who he's playing - and playing to. And let's be honest why the fuck would he just appease his die hards. Ultimatley, we're obessives who put too much into him demanding that he play obscure songs just for us*...(will come back to this).

That said, these latest arena tours really, really work. The energy, setlist etc (while repetitive to train spotters) are greatly, greatly appreciated by non- obessives, i.e. normal folk. THIS KIND OF SHOW IS A MAJOR, MAJOR SUCCESS!!! 5* reviews. It's a great tour.

Added to that is are very rare aftershows like Melkweg* (2nd night) and I think that die hards should just chill. Im glad he's around. I love and appreciate his perfomances and Hop Farm, energy wise was one of the best gigs I've ever seen by him (also saw lovesexy 5 x).

We can't have our cake and eat it. If you want to criticise, then criticise his aftershows, that's were setlists - in general - could be so much more interesting... But hey I think he knows exactly what he's currently doing ( A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LOVING HIM) and I'm very grateful for it (even if that means seeing cream/le freak/play that funky etc music for the 100th time:)

Absolutely agree with this post (especially the parts in bold)! This tour has been successful, the media and the fans had nothing but enthusiastic reviews (except for Cologne, of course), and he reached a lot of people - many who saw him the first time and are now fans! And I think that is exactly what he wants to accomplish with this kind of big arena / festival tour!

No one can say he does not put an effort into his performances! The setlist varies greatly, he always played at least a few of the more rare songs, he changed things around to keep it all fresh. Most of all - he is enjoying what he does, and that is most important! As long as he has fun on stage, it means he will keep touring ... and that is what we want, isn't it? Because at some point in the future I am sure he will also try something different again, like playing in smaller venues. Right now he enjoys the big crowds - so what's wrong with that? He gets a lot out of it, and so do the people who enjoy what he offers!

I am also glad that he's around, and I appreciate all of his performances! Seeing that he has a good time on stage, laughing and joking with the band and the crowd - that is a bonus that I personally enjoy greatly. It could be so different. But he is really far from going through the motions - he loves to perform, that is easy to see! And he still does it with a passion that many other artists lack! He comes up with ways to make old songs sound fresh, and he never plays exactly the same setlist twice! I am grateful to experience all of this. Prince is still the best live performer out there!

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

JeePee said:

Have you Bart?

Give us a list of the last ten shows you've seen. And not on video, but actually went there.

Anyone who claims this tour is better than Controversy/1999/Purple rain/Parade/SOTT/Lovesexy is NUTS.

I know you can read. I know you got more than a basic understanding of the English language. That was not what I asked nor was it what I implied, and you know it.

So based on your answer, is it safe to assume that the Lovesexy tour was the last one you bought a ticket for and went to see?

JeePee said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Anyone who claims this tour is better than Controversy/1999/Purple rain/Parade/SOTT/Lovesexy is NUTS.

I know you can read. I know you got more than a basic understanding of the English language. That was not what I asked nor was it what I implied, and you know it.

So based on your answer, is it safe to assume that the Lovesexy tour was the last one you bought a ticket for and went to see?

Wrong.

Dreamer20ten said:

Veej said:

... Of course he knows who he's playing - and playing to. And let's be honest why the fuck would he just appease his die hards. Ultimatley, we're obessives who put too much into him demanding that he play obscure songs just for us*...(will come back to this).

That said, these latest arena tours really, really work. The energy, setlist etc (while repetitive to train spotters) are greatly, greatly appreciated by non- obessives, i.e. normal folk. THIS KIND OF SHOW IS A MAJOR, MAJOR SUCCESS!!! 5* reviews. It's a great tour.

Added to that is are very rare aftershows like Melkweg* (2nd night) and I think that die hards should just chill. Im glad he's around. I love and appreciate his perfomances and Hop Farm, energy wise was one of the best gigs I've ever seen by him (also saw lovesexy 5 x).

We can't have our cake and eat it. If you want to criticise, then criticise his aftershows, that's were setlists - in general - could be so much more interesting... But hey I think he knows exactly what he's currently doing ( A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LOVING HIM) and I'm very grateful for it (even if that means seeing cream/le freak/play that funky etc music for the 100th time:)

Absolutely agree with this post (especially the parts in bold)! This tour has been successful, the media and the fans had nothing but enthusiastic reviews (except for Cologne, of course), and he reached a lot of people - many who saw him the first time and are now fans! And I think that is exactly what he wants to accomplish with this kind of big arena / festival tour!

And you're saying he couldn't have done so if he'd played ACTUAL SONGS instead of loops and chants and jams?

No one can say he does not put an effort into his performances!

As opposed to in the past?

Most of all - he is enjoying what he does, and that is most important!

As opposed to in the past?

I'm sorry, but I've heard that "he's enjoying himself" crap for years, and it's bull. "It was kinda shit, but hey, Prince was happy, and that's what's important." I see a man going through the motions, doing exactly what he swore he wouldn't be come.

Let's face it, Prince has been in "Vegas mode" even since he spent (too much) time in Vegas.

He is a great musician with a great catalogue, so even in Vegas mode he is still putting out enjoyable shows, and I liked the two shows I attended this summer. But his shows are no longer breaking any new ground, just like his albums stopped breaking any new ground many many years ago (and at a very minimum since Rainbow Children). He is just ageing, ageing gracefully but still ageing. And to answer Juergen's question, nothing will bring back his magic because unlike some of his predecessors (e.g. Miles Davis) he is not willing to let any new young musicians join his group to challenge himself, just like he is not willing anyone (producer, composer, musician) challenge him more broadly. That's just Prince, a control freak, with all the greatness and weakness this has brought to his carreer!

BartVanHemelen said:

Dreamer20ten said:

As opposed to in the past?

Most of all - he is enjoying what he does, and that is most important!

As opposed to in the past?

I'm sorry, but I've heard that "he's enjoying himself" crap for years, and it's bull. "It was kinda shit, but hey, Prince was happy, and that's what's important." I see a man going through the motions, doing exactly what he swore he wouldn't be come.

I have this mental image of Prince going through his setlist, and picking out three or four covers/medleys/snippets and saying, "This will REALLY get Bart's goat!"

BartVanHemelen said:

JeePee said:

I know you can read. I know you got more than a basic understanding of the English language. That was not what I asked nor was it what I implied, and you know it.

So based on your answer, is it safe to assume that the Lovesexy tour was the last one you bought a ticket for and went to see?

Wrong.

Wrong? You didn't know what I meant? Oh dear. Let me rephrase the question then and start easy: when was the last time you went to a Prince concert?

And maybe, if it's not too complicated, give me a setlist of what you think that will make a good Prince show.

[Edited 8/22/11 11:35am]

Time for some popcorn, I'm always having a box ready in case Bart comes by

Juergen187 said:

Many years ago I stopped being curious about a new Prince album, simply because his new albums kept disappointing me. Honestly, when was his last great album??? But that's ok, nobody can be so incredibly creative as he was over 20 years or so...

But we still had the live shows! In 2002, after a couple of crap albums, he returned with "the rainbow children", I wasn't into it so much, but Prince was into it! So he based a tour on it, arranged the new songs just fantastically and chose some older songs perfectly matching with his new songs. He again created a musical concept, something that worked. And he chose the right band for that music, the right stage, the right venues (smaller ones) and even the right clothes. I still have my ticket for the show in Frankfurt, a concert I'll always remember, I wished he would never stop playing...so I got my tickets for the next show in Oberhausen and even an about 200€-ebay-ticket for Zurich...money didn't matter those days, cause you could experience magic!

And now? Today and the recent years? Sometimes he still performs quite well, sometimes quite bad, and sometimes you're even happy he doesn't come back for encores. The magic sometimes has turned to pain, I can hardly stand seeing this genius of musician and live perfomer destroying his own masterpieces. But even when his performance is quite good, there is no such thing as a live musical concept, something new and thrilling. The audience senses that, and so does Prince.

And what about a stage show? Well, don't wanna remember his glorious shows in the 80`s, but seeing Shelby waving a flag during "Purple Rain" is just ridicuouls on an epic level...or Prince chasing her with a towel while she's performing "misty blue", then saying "soul music, soul music...yeah, real music by real musicians".....OMG, that sucks. stage itself is a joke too, or should we appreciate there are no disco jelly fish this time?

Then the band: Shelby is just an average soul singer, he needs her, coz he's sick of singing himself, simple as that. But what' really hard to get, that's the woman on the guitar. Prince, please visit the Philippines, a nation full of Karaoke singers and guitar players (some really good), any guitar player there will do better than Andy Allo....if she was sexy at least.....

I think there is only one chance for him to bring back the 'magic': make a reasonably good album with some kind of theme from first to last song, no need fo a masterpiece. Then mix it with older rarely performed songs to something special, choose musicians, not just instrumantelists and go bring the vibe on stages with perfect lighting and sound, and, goddamn, rehearse and soundcheck it 100 times!!! Do it, and me and many other die-hard fans will be back.....There are many Jazz musicians working hard, a hundred times a year on stage, who'd be very happy filling venues holding some 2000 people and getting their applause, because

' a little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing '

Prince is and always will have and be MAGIC..He's a genius and he is unique and pleases his own heart, which if u're a true fan, includes u.....I only wish I could catch another 1 of his shows...and meet the man personally....call me unique...call me a prince fan...love love love love him/music!!!!!!!!!

Well the gig I saw in Zurich last week certainly wasn't going through the motions. I have seen him many many times over the years (almost every tour) and this was one of the best. I have seen the good and the bad (NPS ) Yes, really, this is one of the best. Yeah, he played loads of hits, but why not? Empty Room? Seriously? as a full-on jam, to an auditorium, most of whom had never heard it before? It was amazing.

The o2 shows in London were very formulaic, but his electrifying aftershows made up for that. This recent tour is in a different league entirely!

More..please...

(Sorry bart, you missed out and are wrong about this one)

[Edited 8/23/11 5:53am]

I'm all new to this community and to Prince in general, so I won't be able to judge older and newer songs or shows. But one thing that comes to my mind, when I read the first posting is:

Prince is 53 years old. He has achieved everything there is to achieve. He doesn't have to prove anything to anyone anymore. All he can do (and all he does!), is enjoy life. If he feels live making a new record, he'll make it whenever he wants to. If he wants to tour, he'll do a tour, and he'll play the songs he likes, the way he likes. He doesn't HAVE to be magic, innovative, electrifying or whatever people expect from him.

Give me the name of ONE artist or band that kept doing music and art for over 30 years, without repeating themselves after a whle. Without getting sick, addicted in some way, without losing track... Prince, as I feel it, just kept doing "his thing" (and luckily for us, that thing was something we like). But he didnt' do it to please US, but to please himself.

So in my oppinion, it has a touch of presumptuousness (don't know if that's the right expression) and arrogance to expect ANYthing from him. I consider myself very lucky and blessed having experienced one of his concerts in Zurich (apparently one of his best, according to what I read here). But I respect any decisions he makes, and if he decides never to do an album anymore, than so be it. I'll live with it.