Good argument if u ignore his defensive skills and the only thing that really counts in pro sports.....winning. Pip pen is a better defensive player than just about everyone you named above.

Graycap23 said:

Good argument if u ignore his defensive skills and the only thing that really counts in pro sports.......winning. Pip pen is a better defensive player than just about everyone you named above.

I'm not ignoring defense or winning. All that is a factor. Pippen is a great defender and a below average offensive threat. Is Ben Wallace in your top 15? He's a better defender than Pippen (has the hardware to prove it, 4 DPOYs to Pippen's zero) and has a championship? So he won, and not with his teammate being Michael Jordan. He won a championship as the only All-Star on his team (in that season) and they beat the Shaq-Kobe-Malone-Payton Lakers in an upset of epic proportions.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Are u really comparing Wallace to Pippen? How is ave 17 points a game below average?

Graycap23 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I'm not ignoring defense or winning. All that is a factor. Pippen is a great defender and a below average offensive threat. Is Ben Wallace in your top 15? He's a better defender than Pippen (has the hardware to prove it, 4 DPOYs to Pippen's zero) and has a championship? So he won, and not with his teammate being Michael Jordan. He won a championship as the only All-Star on his team (in that season) and they beat the Shaq-Kobe-Malone-Payton Lakers in an upset of epic proportions.

Are u really comparing Wallace to Pippen? How is ave 17 points a game below average?

You said defense and winning, so I gave you a defender who won ...

I was using Ben Wallace as an example of a great defender who won, so why isn't he in your top 15?

And Pippen high is 22. Magic Johnson avg more than that and he's not even known as a scorer. Pippen's high of 22 came when Jordan was playing baseball. 17 PPG is below avg if you want to be considered a top 15 player all time (unless your name is Bill Russell.)

There was a reason Phil Jackson went to Kukoc and not Pippen.

Look, I'm not hating on Pippen but he is no where near a top 15 player All-Time.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

i dig it. Pippen isn't everyone's cup of tea and I understand your point of view. I'm very biased when it comes to Pip because I think he will never get the respect he deserves.

Graycap23 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

You said defense and winning, so I gave you a defender who won ...

I was using Ben Wallace as an example of a great defender who won, so why isn't he in your top 15?

And Pippen high is 22. Magic Johnson avg more than that and he's not even known as a scorer. Pippen's high of 22 came when Jordan was playing baseball. 17 PPG is below avg if you want to be considered a top 15 player all time (unless your name is Bill Russell.)

There was a reason Phil Jackson went to Kukoc and not Pippen.

Look, I'm not hating on Pippen but he is no where near a top 15 player All-Time.

i dig it. Pippen isn't everyone's cup of tea and I understand your point of view. I'm very biased when it comes to Pip because I think he will never get the respect he deserves.

He'll never get respect if people put him in places he doesn't belong.

I'm assuming you don't have him over guys like Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, Moses, West, Oscar, Dr. J.

But if you have him around 15 than for you he's over guys like Bob Pettit, Baylor, Havlicek, Barry, Frazier, Barkley, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Garnett, Dirk, Wade. I can't see him over any of those guys. And I haven't even mentioned George Mikan, Willis Reed, Drexler, Stockton, Ewing, Durant, ect.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said: i dig it. Pippen isn't everyone's cup of tea and I understand your point of view. I'm very biased when it comes to Pip because I think he will never get the respect he deserves.

He'll never get respect if people put him in places he doesn't belong.

I'm assuming you don't have him over guys like Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, Moses, West, Oscar, Dr. J.

But if you have him around 15 than for you he's over guys like Bob Pettit, Baylor, Havlicek, Barry, Frazier, Barkley, Karl Malone, David Robinson, Garnett, Dirk, Wade. I can't see him over any of those guys. And I haven't even mentioned George Mikan, Willis Reed, Drexler, Stockton, Ewing, Durant, ect.

Pip is a better overall player than every one you named in the 2nd group and a better defensive player than Bird, the Doctor, Lebron, & West. The guys you keep mentioning have higher scoring & Reb aves than Pippen. Pippen was better defensively and contributed to more winning.

Graycap23 said:

So, Pippen is better than a Barkley, a Garnett, a Dirk or a Wade?

So Pippen is taking a team with a 40 year old Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler to a championship over Bron, Wade and Bosh? No way.

Most of those other guys have MVPs or took their teams to the Finals and/or won.

Pippen played with Jordan. No one has Sam Jones in the top 15 because he was a winner.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

Pip is a better overall player than every one you named in the 2nd group and a better defensive player than Bird, the Doctor, Lebron, & West. The guys you keep mentioning have higher scoring & Reb aves than Pippen. Pippen was better defensively and contributed to more winning.

So, Pippen is better than a Barkley, a Garnett, a Dirk or a Wade? So Pippen is taking a team with a 40 year old Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler to a championship over Bron, Wade and Bosh? No way. Most of those other guys have MVPs or took their teams to the Finals and/or won. Pippen played with Jordan. No one has Sam Jones in the top 15 because he was a winner.

Pippen is a better defensive player than Barkley, Garnett, Dirk & Wade.

Are you telling me he isn't?

You are penalizing Pippen for playing with Jordan.

Pippen almost made it to the Finals twice without Jordan.

Jordan got nowhere near the Finals without Pippen.

Graycap23 said:

Of course he's a better defender, I'm still taking all of them over Pippen without thinking twice. You're shooting him way up on the all-time list for playing D and winning. But what about Dennis Johnson, Joe Dumars. Guys why played D and won and with similar accolades to Pippen.

Not penalizing him, but we know who team that was. This wasn't Shaq/Kobe or Kareem/Magic.

Horace Grant was more important than people give him credit for. Grant was with Pippen the first season MJ played baseball. Check their record the very next season when Grant joined Orlando?

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

Pippen is a better defensive player than Barkley, Garnett, Dirk & Wade.

Are you telling me he isn't?

You are penalizing Pippen for playing with Jordan.

Pippen almost made it to the Finals twice without Jordan.

Jordan got nowhere near the Finals without Pippen.

Of course he's a better defender, I'm still taking all of them over Pippen without thinking twice. You're shooting him way up on the all-time list for playing D and winning. But what about Dennis Johnson, Joe Dumars. Guys why played D and won and with similar accolades to Pippen. Not penalizing him, but we know who team that was. This wasn't Shaq/Kobe or Kareem/Magic. Horace Grant was more important than people give him credit for. Grant was with Pippen the first season MJ played baseball. Check their record the very next season when Grant joined Orlando?

Check any teams record when they lose their 2nd best player.

Pip is in my top 15. It's cool if he isn't in yours.

Graycap23 said:

You have Pippen over Malone or Barkley? Even though when they played at the exact same time Chuck and Malone were considered better? What's your reasoning other than being a better defender?

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

Check any teams record when they lose their 2nd best player.

Pip is in my top 15. It's cool if he isn't in yours.

You have Pippen over Malone or Barkley? Even though when they played at the exact same time Chuck and Malone were considered better? What's your reasoning other than being a better defender?

Defense wins titles..............

Graycap23 said:

So youd take Pippen over them?
Is Gary Payton and Walt Frazier in your top 15?
What about Dikembe Mutombo, 4 time DPOY. Is Sidney Moncrief high.

I'm not knocking Pippen, but where is his DPOY

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

Defense wins titles..............

So youd take Pippen over them? Is Gary Payton and Walt Frazier in your top 15? What about Dikembe Mutombo, 4 time DPOY. Is Sidney Moncrief high. I'm not knocking Pippen, but where is his DPOY

If they have 6 titles they are....................

Graycap23 said:

But Sam Jones has ten ... was 2nd best player on most of Russell Celtics. Also a great defender.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Graycap23 said:

If they have 6 titles they are....................

But Sam Jones has ten ... was 2nd best player on most of Russell Celtics. Also a great defender.

Modern players would probably run rings around those cats. I guess we shall never know.

Graycap23 said:

Sam Jones era players used to play as much as 5 games in a row. And modern players complain about back to back games and the season being shortened.

Who is the NUMBER 1 Duo in NBA history?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the-5-most-accomplished-nba-duos-of-all-time.html/?a=viewall