rdhull said:

Between chemtrails and those Taco Bell Nacho Doritos tacos...

"man..I dunno..lifes a bitch"-Puppet/Purple Rain

[img:$uid]http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/rebecca8273/puppetpout.png[/img:$uid]

I saw them myself just three nights ago.

Four planes doing u turns and making crosses and grids in the sky.

Normal plane behaviour obviously.

Cloudbuster said:

I saw them myself just three nights ago.

Four planes doing u turns and making crosses and grids in the sky.

Normal plane behaviour obviously.

It might not be "normal plane behavior" for a passenger plane, but perhaps what you saw (if you aren't just making it up) were military planes - fighter jets, specifically. Their training exercises would certainly involve flight paths that curve and cross one another. (Or that look like they cross one another. They might be at different altitudes - which you wouldn't be able to tell from looking up.)

Genesia said:

Cloudbuster said:

I saw them myself just three nights ago.

Four planes doing u turns and making crosses and grids in the sky.

Normal plane behaviour obviously.

It might not be "normal plane behavior" for a passenger plane, but perhaps what you saw (if you aren't just making it up) were military planes - fighter jets, specifically. Their training exercises would certainly involve flight paths that curve and cross one another. (Or that look like they cross one another. They might be at different altitudes - which you wouldn't be able to tell from looking up.)

I'm not making it up so save your insults please.

Leaving trails that then hang in the air for hours? Maybe. Maybe not.

This was filmed in January about half an hour away from where I live.

It doesn't look like normal vapour trail to me.

Cloudbuster said:

Genesia said:

It might not be "normal plane behavior" for a passenger plane, but perhaps what you saw (if you aren't just making it up) were military planes - fighter jets, specifically. Their training exercises would certainly involve flight paths that curve and cross one another. (Or that look like they cross one another. They might be at different altitudes - which you wouldn't be able to tell from looking up.)

I'm not making it up so save your insults please.

Leaving trails that then hang in the air for hours? Maybe. Maybe not.

This was filmed in January about half an hour away from where I live.

It doesn't look like normal vapour trail to me.

Those contrails are perfectly normal. How long they last is a function of temperature, moisture level and wind speeds in the atmosphere at the level the plane is flying at.

The video is 11 minutes long. How do we know the contrails lasted for "hours?" (Not that it matters if they did.)

Genesia said:

Those contrails are perfectly normal. How long they last is a function of temperature, moisture level and wind speeds in the atmosphere at the level the plane is flying at.

The video is 11 minutes long. How do we know the contrails lasted for "hours?" (Not that it matters if they did.)

Because I saw them myself three nights ago. And taking into consideration the temperature on the evening on which I saw them (humidity was low) the contrails should have dispersed within a few minutes. But they didn't.

Oh wait. I'm making it up.

Cloudbuster said:

Genesia said:

Those contrails are perfectly normal. How long they last is a function of temperature, moisture level and wind speeds in the atmosphere at the level the plane is flying at.

The video is 11 minutes long. How do we know the contrails lasted for "hours?" (Not that it matters if they did.)

Because I saw them myself three nights ago. And taking into consideration the temperature on the evening on which I saw them (humidity was low) the contrails should have dispersed within a few minutes. But they didn't.

Oh wait. I'm making it up.

1. Have you ever heard of "lapse rate"?

2. What makes you think the contrails "should have dispersed within a few minutes"? Can you explain the mechanism by which you think they disperse?

BlackandRising said:

chopingard said:

What people are calling chemtrails is mearly condensed air shedding it's water vapour. It's called a vortex and if Prince hadn't been sitting up front in first class for the last 30 years and spent a few flights in economy he would have seen them coming off the wing.

I hate it when people make comments regarding another person's intellect simply because they take avaiable information and come to conclusions that aren't immediately evident to others.

Maybe you should have been sitting in front in first class, as you are referring to CONtrails, which are the streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by an airplane at high altitudes that dissipate fairly quickly. It can also happen at low altitudes at high speeds and high angle of attack. CHEMtrails are theorized to be something other than a natural process of exhaust hitting cold air, and they persist for hours. I do not know what CHEMtrails do or do not contain, but your definition is flat out wrong.

From a former pilot who knows the difference between water condensation and lingering chemicals in the air.

Funny isn't it how so many people are quick to call Prince a fool yet are clueless themselves.

Cloudbuster said:

Genesia said:

Those contrails are perfectly normal. How long they last is a function of temperature, moisture level and wind speeds in the atmosphere at the level the plane is flying at.

The video is 11 minutes long. How do we know the contrails lasted for "hours?" (Not that it matters if they did.)

Because I saw them myself three nights ago. And taking into consideration the temperature on the evening on which I saw them (humidity was low) the contrails should have dispersed within a few minutes. But they didn't.

Oh wait. I'm making it up.

You live at 30,000 feet, do you?

The temperature, humidity and windspeed on the ground tell you nothing about what the conditions are aloft. You know...up where the planes are.

You may not be making it up, but you know nothing about meteorology, that's for damn sure.

Anyone else notice Cloudbuster's nick is more than appropriate for this topic.

Anybody that believes that the chemtrails in the sky the last 15-20 years are the same as the contrails we've seen for over 50 years doesn't look up.

Anybody that believes that chemtrails are a crazy conspiracy theory haven't researched the phenomena.

It's funny to me. Nobody I know trusts the media. However, almost everybody is quick to believe that chemtrails don't exist because if they were real the media would tell us about them....

Hilarious.

djThunderfunk said:

Anybody that believes that the chemtrails in the sky the last 15-20 years are the same as the contrails we've seen for over 50 years doesn't look up.

Anybody that believes that chemtrails are a crazy conspiracy theory haven't researched the phenomena.

It's funny to me. Nobody I know trusts the media. However, almost everybody is quick to believe that chemtrails don't exist because if they were real the media would tell us about them....

Hilarious.

Who said that?!

I don't believe in them because I know a lot about meteorology and a fair amount about aeronautics and aviation.

I also know there are a lot of paranoid kooks in the world.

Genesia said:

Who said that?!

I don't believe in them because I know a lot about meteorology and a fair amount about aeronautics and aviation.

I also know there are a lot of paranoid kooks in the world.

What is it you don't believe? That they don't exist, or, that they're different from contrails?

djThunderfunk said:

Genesia said:

Who said that?!

I don't believe in them because I know a lot about meteorology and a fair amount about aeronautics and aviation.

I also know there are a lot of paranoid kooks in the world.

What is it you don't believe? That they don't exist, or, that they're different from contrails?

What do you think about what's published here: http://rationalwiki.org/w...hemtrails?

Specifically each section one at a time.

Genesia said:

djThunderfunk said:

Anybody that believes that the chemtrails in the sky the last 15-20 years are the same as the contrails we've seen for over 50 years doesn't look up.

Anybody that believes that chemtrails are a crazy conspiracy theory haven't researched the phenomena.

It's funny to me. Nobody I know trusts the media. However, almost everybody is quick to believe that chemtrails don't exist because if they were real the media would tell us about them....

Hilarious.

Who said that?!

I don't believe in them because I know a lot about meteorology and a fair amount about aeronautics and aviation.

I also know there are a lot of paranoid kooks in the world.

It's got nothing to do with belief, really - that's the problem. Once belief enters a discussion, the discussion becomes pointless - you can't argue against something that somebody simply believes. In any event, it's up to those who claim that "chemtrails" exist and are sinister to present proof if they wish to be taken seriously. Until then, there's really nothing to talk about.

Genesia said:

Cloudbuster said:

I saw them myself just three nights ago.

Four planes doing u turns and making crosses and grids in the sky.

Normal plane behaviour obviously.

It might not be "normal plane behavior" for a passenger plane, but perhaps what you saw (if you aren't just making it up) were military planes - fighter jets, specifically. Their training exercises would certainly involve flight paths that curve and cross one another. (Or that look like they cross one another. They might be at different altitudes - which you wouldn't be able to tell from looking up.)

actually, no, those wouldn't be from fighter jets. Unless there happened to be an impromptu air show in that air space. And training exercises do not involve flight paths that cross one another. That might happen in sorties where the purpose was to train for "dogfighting", but trust me, that woudn't happen in an area that could be casually filmed by an onlooker from the ground. So I seriously doubt those contrails are from fighter jets.

I'm telling you, there is alot to this. Please do yur research people.

Live 4 Love

This chemtrail stuff seems really interesting!

It's so weird how putting little trails of vapor 30 thousand feet up in cubic MILES air can dose anything on the ground below. Even though the trails stay up there! It's similar to a boat putting out a little trail of oil to sicken a swath of ocean FLOOR the size of a city. I just didn't think that could be done. They are evil geniuses.

It's also insidious that they wouldn't do the invisible method of dosing the tap water, livestock, and vegetables, but rather draw big lines in the sky that we can point to (they must like to show off! How sick!)

It's also cool that they figured out making people have illnesses and become unhappy makes their kingdom stronger too! It's so imaginative. Nevermind that it causes expense and loss of value to corporations and government entities who rely on workforces of... humans. They are probably not human, right?

And it's great how They and their families and children are immune to these big doses in the skies.

I've known people that work for the CIA, and government. I even know families that are major shareholders of big companies like Pfizer, play golf with Bush, etc. I'm in awe that they keep such secrets.

It just boggle the mind! They are so powerful!

They Live.

(Anyone see the secret second sun during sunrise and sunset?)

NouveauDance said:

Also, reptilian Jews from Nibiru run Hollywood, and that's why 20Ten wasn't released in the US.

Aren't these reptilian Jews the same beings who created the Prince, MJ and JB video with photoshop? Think I've heard of them...

It's really cute how this chemtrail thing became so huge in America. Some of you are really gullible and have a very strong tendency for believing dramatic conspiracy theories.

People, it's simply vapour. It can be seen coming from all the planes in the world, every time. Even if Slovakia.

Plus, it's very easy to detect any chemicals in the air nowadays; it's something you can do in private, if you invest in the necessary equipment and know your stuff in physics, biology and chemistry. Many independent scientists have done their research and all of them concluded that this chemtrail stuff is utter bullshit.

ufoclub said:

This chemtrail stuff seems really interesting!

It's so weird how putting little trails of vapor 30 thousand feet up in cubic MILES air can dose anything on the ground below. Even though the trails stay up there! It's similar to a boat putting out a little trail of oil to sicken a swath of ocean FLOOR the size of a city. I just didn't think that could be done. They are evil geniuses.

It's also insidious that they wouldn't do the invisible method of dosing the tap water, livestock, and vegetables, but rather draw big lines in the sky that we can point to (they must like to show off! How sick!)

It's also cool that they figured out making people have illnesses and become unhappy makes their kingdom stronger too! It's so imaginative. Nevermind that it causes expense and loss of value to corporations and government entities who rely on workforces of... humans. They are probably not human, right?

And it's great how They and their families and children are immune to these big doses in the skies.

I've known people that work for the CIA, and government. I even know families that are major shareholders of big companies like Pfizer, play golf with Bush, etc. I'm in awe that they keep such secrets.

It just boggle the mind! They are so powerful!

They Live.

(Anyone see the secret second sun during sunrise and sunset?)

remember when prince did this interview?

Prince Talks About Chemtrails In Rare TV Interview
Wednesday, April 29, 2009

re/

ufoclub said:

djThunderfunk said:

What is it you don't believe? That they don't exist, or, that they're different from contrails?

What do you think about what's published here: http://rationalwiki.org/w...hemtrails?

Specifically each section one at a time.

What do you think about what's published here: http://coto2.wordpress.co...%E2%80%99/

I'll address yours one section at a time if you'll do the same for the above.

I think the chemtrail patterns I have seen in the sky for the last 15 years bear little resemblance to the contrails I've seen for over 40 years and still see from planes. Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes. Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance. They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

It's not the same thing.

[Edited 5/10/12 9:37am]

djThunderfunk said:

ufoclub said:

What do you think about what's published here: http://rationalwiki.org/w...hemtrails?

Specifically each section one at a time.

What do you think about what's published here: http://coto2.wordpress.co...%E2%80%99/

I'll address yours one section at a time if you'll do the same for the above.

I think the chemtrail patterns I have seen in the sky for the last 15 years bear little resemblance to the contrails I've seen for over 40 years and still see from planes. Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes. Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance. They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

It's not the same thing.

[Edited 5/10/12 9:37am]

You've managed to list the main misconceptions that lie at the crux of the whole chemtrail notion, there.

Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes

Not always.

Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance

Contrails can do this if the conditions are right.

They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

Yup. Just like contrails can.

djThunderfunk said:

ufoclub said:

What do you think about what's published here: http://rationalwiki.org/w...hemtrails?

Specifically each section one at a time.

What do you think about what's published here: http://coto2.wordpress.co...%E2%80%99/

I'll address yours one section at a time if you'll do the same for the above.

I think the chemtrail patterns I have seen in the sky for the last 15 years bear little resemblance to the contrails I've seen for over 40 years and still see from planes. Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes. Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance. They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

It's not the same thing.

[Edited 5/10/12 9:37am]

Just the first paragraph of your link lists "an international symposium held in Ghent, Belgium May 28-30, 2010,scientists" without any link to a website of the event, a name for it, or even what type of experts were there, simply calling them "scientists" in the same way a cartoon would." Does this not make you suspicious about the validity of this article? I tried to google that information because if any kind of reputable sympsosium took place, there would be a record of it, and some kind of nuetral mention of it in a non conspiracy theory site. Every link that came up was the same quote, and every one was a consipiracy "entertainment" site.

And a few paragraphs down it cites a Dr. Coen Vermeeren who has a website at http://www.coenvermeeren.nl/

If you click that link you then find his website in another language, but the first header reads: Past and Presence of Unidentified Flying Objects

Does this not make you suspicious of the validity of Dr. Coen? And then in turn even further suspicious of the article that cites him as an expert?

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

Shorty said:

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

^ you beat me to it.

the ORG must have been sprayed last night

This is also hilarious if you think about it:

"Dr Vermeeren, of the Delft University of Technology, presented [4] a 300-page scientific report entitled, “CASE ORANGE: Contrail Science, Its Impact on Climate and Weather Manipulation Programs Conducted by the United States and Its Allies.”

and then: "Case Orange notes it was prepared for the Belfort Group by a team of scientists but presented anonymously."

The citation reads: Anonymous, “CASE ORANGE: Contrail Science, Its Impact on Climate and Weather Manipulation Programs Conducted by the United States and Its Allies,” 10 May 2010. PDF without appendices:http://coto2.files.wordpr...trails.pdf

ANONYMOUS.

That's funny!

You realize that means that someone is just writing science fiction within a context of pseudo history, and jumping from contrails to cloud seeding (you know that cloud seeding requires a cloud, right?) to create an illogical connection in the avid reader's mind.

It's not real.

If you just read the the serious article about this particular conspiracy, you'll understand that. It's own science is flawed, it's references are made up, it's "experts" are conspiracy nuts.

I'm friends with a lot of POST doctoral researchers and theorists (yes, scientists in elementary school terms) in a variety of fields. I'd be embarrassed to even bring this up. One of my friends was even doing a project with The Division of Infectious Diseases at the University of Michigan making a fictitious account of a disease spreading and it's effects in society, politics, and culture. In other words they were making up there own conspiracy theory as a piece of art which would even include a video. It was a lot more sound than Chemtrail theories!

Why does the article you linked jump from chemtrails to cloud seeding? Have you wondered that? Cloudseeding is an attempt to dump shit into an existing cloud to cause it to rain. In lesser cases it is attempted to reduce hail or thwart rain, but no reliable data exists to see if it is effective to stop precipitation.

With clud seeding, you would see a big cloud formation in the sky, forecasting a change in weather, and you would then see a plane going at a higher level trying to dump a scattering into it. This would of course be blocked by the cloud or overcast structure itself.

Contrails are the obvious trails from planes that are water vapor. they are basically manmade cloud streaks. And they are just water. I personally know someone here at the university that does contrail research, and recreates them in a controlled lab environment on the ground. He was laughing when I mentioned chemtrail theories.

[Edited 5/10/12 13:49pm]

Shorty said:

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

It's impossible to have a discussion when one side is trying to argue merely from a position of belief. I tried asking reasonable questions, but these were ignored. The burden of proof lies with those making the claim - it's not up to us to debunk it, it's up to them to present evidence for their claims. THEN we can have a discussion.