i'm old enough to remember when big trucks drove slowly through residential areas back on the east coast, spraying folks' lawns, gardens, sidewalks and city streets with pesticides to eradicate mosquitoes.

we'd all be over in the park across the street, little barefoot chillens playing kick the can, and then the truck would go by and all the sudden we'd be engulfed in a white, foggy, stinky chemical cloud.

talk about chemtrails!

Lianachan said:

Shorty said:

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

It's impossible to have a discussion when one side is trying to argue merely from a position of belief. I tried asking reasonable questions, but these were ignored. The burden of proof lies with those making the claim - it's not up to us to debunk it, it's up to them to present evidence for their claims. THEN we can have a discussion.

Shorty said:

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

Yeah...no.

There have been plenty of rational explanations in this very thread of why the whole chemtrails idea is nonsense. It doesn't really have anything to do with "different view points." Sometimes, the thing is true or it isn't. (In this case, it isn't.)

Genesia said:

Shorty said:

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

Yeah...no.

There have been plenty of rational explanations in this very thread of why the whole chemtrails idea is nonsense. It doesn't really have anything to do with "different view points." Sometimes, the thing is true or it isn't. (In this case, it isn't.)

Shorty said:

Genesia said:

Yeah...no.

There have been plenty of rational explanations in this very thread of why the whole chemtrails idea is nonsense. It doesn't really have anything to do with "different view points." Sometimes, the thing is true or it isn't. (In this case, it isn't.)

that can be said for almost any "out there" theories... even if it is nonsense, poking fun and basically laughing at those who believe otherwise is mean. sorry

Really. So...would you say the same thing to those who enjoy poking fun at and ridiculing Christians or other religious people on this site? How about political conservatives? Or is it only the conspiracy theorists who need defending?

Perhaps you have - I'm just asking.

Shorty said:

Lianachan said:

It's impossible to have a discussion when one side is trying to argue merely from a position of belief. I tried asking reasonable questions, but these were ignored. The burden of proof lies with those making the claim - it's not up to us to debunk it, it's up to them to present evidence for their claims. THEN we can have a discussion.

that's got nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said that a discussion "didn't have a chance of happening". That is incorrect.

Genesia said:

Shorty said:

that can be said for almost any "out there" theories... even if it is nonsense, poking fun and basically laughing at those who believe otherwise is mean. sorry

Really. So...would you say the same thing to those who enjoy poking fun at and ridiculing Christians or other religious people on this site? How about political conservatives? Or is it only the conspiracy theorists who need defending?

Perhaps you have - I'm just asking.

yes no, not just conspiracy theorists. from time to time things like this strike me as mean, regardless of topic. Sometimes I feel the need to say so, sometimes I don't.

Lianachan said:

Shorty said:

that's got nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does. You said that a discussion "didn't have a chance of happening". That is incorrect.

sorry

I stand corrected

Shorty said:

Genesia said:

Really. So...would you say the same thing to those who enjoy poking fun at and ridiculing Christians or other religious people on this site? How about political conservatives? Or is it only the conspiracy theorists who need defending?

Perhaps you have - I'm just asking.

yes no, not just conspiracy theorists. from time to time things like this strike me as mean, regardless of topic. Sometimes I feel the need to say so, sometimes I don't.

Ah. So your outrage is selective. Gotcha.

the whole planet is polluted. our air, our water, our soil. we're all gonna catch cooties simplex 19 and suffer collapsed lungs.

Shorty said:

that can be said for almost any "out there" theories... even if it is nonsense, poking fun and basically laughing at those who believe otherwise is mean. sorry

it's the usual suspects as always - it's all they're good at. you should have seen mr.ufo on a 9-11 thread last year - all he had to offer were insults to those who quite rightly don't believe the so called official account. all we need now is that soulpower guy who only shows up when a corporate+government line needs defending.

scatwoman said:

Shorty said:

that can be said for almost any "out there" theories... even if it is nonsense, poking fun and basically laughing at those who believe otherwise is mean. sorry

it's the usual suspects as always - it's all they're good at. you should have seen mr.ufo on a 9-11 thread last year - all he had to offer were insults to those who quite rightly don't believe the so called official account. all we need now is that soulpower guy who only shows up when a corporate+government line needs defending.

Actually if you look up that 9-11 thread and even one older than that, I looked into every detail you and others were citing, and debunked everything, but first and foremost, the sources of misinformation you have blind faith in. You were never able to defend any of those points. I didn't even think you tried. Instead you post bogus false information from completely unreliable sources.

Look at this short bio of Ted Gunderson who was a member of "constitution party" (doesn't that make warning bells go off? Look it up):

"After retiring from the FBI, Gunderson set up a private investigation firm, Ted L. Gunderson and Associates, in Santa Monica. In 1980, he became a defense investigator for Green BeretDoctor Jeffrey R. MacDonald, who had been convicted of the 1970 murders of his pregnant wife and two daughters. Gunderson obtained affidavits from Helena Stoeckley confessing to her involvement in the murders.^[8]

In an interview (see link below), Gunderson discusses incidents U.S. government sponsored terrorism and the reasons behind them. He was a member of the Constitution Party. He died on July 31, 2011 from complications from cancer.

The last years of Ted Gunderson's life were spent warning people of what he called Chemtrails and of planetwide Satanic and New World Order conspiracies. Gunderson had identified military bases he said were responsible for dumping unidentified poisons around the world from unmarked aircraft which he indicated killed wildlife and perhaps even humans. Gunderson spent years speaking on this and has made a number of videos. He also claimed, at a 1995 conference in Dallas, that a "slave auction" in which children were sold to men in turbans had been held in Las Vegas, and that four thousand ritual human sacrifices are performed in New York City every year. He also claimed that the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was done by the United States government.^[9]"

So answer this one question after you read the above: Do you consider these statements by Ted Gunderson about chemtrails to be more valid than those by a current scientific (non government) , young, of sound mind, PHD level researcher I personally know that laughingly explained exactly what contrails are, and even recreates them for research?

You're right about there being false information and propoganda (most all of these scientifically, politically, and sociologocially impossible conspiracy theories), but you wrong in identifying which (ex) govt official is actually the crazy sinister one lying to you. Hint: He's dead now, but his initials are T.G.

Genesia said:

Shorty said:

yes no, not just conspiracy theorists. from time to time things like this strike me as mean, regardless of topic. Sometimes I feel the need to say so, sometimes I don't.

Ah. So your outrage is selective. Gotcha.

selective or not it's still a valid point. why? here. check this out, perhaps when you do you will see why there really is such a thing as 'chemtrails'.

specifically note the bit about 'cloud seeding'. here is proof of meteorological technology being employed today, even advertised openly on the net. note that this outfit is a 'weather modification' service. agricultural firms also use airborne delivery systems for chemicals applied to crops.

and, while it's true that most seeding is being done inside clouds, with silver iodide, used to force condensation of water resulting in precipitation, it is a fact that chemicals are being delivered into our atmosphere aerially.

from: http://www.nawcinc.com/fastfacts.html

Incorporated in 1950, NAWC has nearly 60 years of continuous involvement in weather modification. NAWC was founded as a weather modification company. Weather modification has always been NAWC's primary specialty. NAWC is recognized internationally as a leader in the weather modification field, in research and operations. NAWC received the American Meteorological Society's prestigious "Award for Outstanding Services to Meteorology by a Corporation" in 1970 for pioneering the practice of private meteorology in the United States. NAWC has conducted weather modification projects and provided consulting services in many countries outside the United States, including Europe, South America, Central America, Asia, and the Middle East. Our weather modification activities and contributions are well known, through our hundreds of publications and reports. Our extensive client list includes hydroelectric utilities, government agencies, water districts, universities and private entities. NAWC's client satisfaction rating is consistently very high, due to NAWC's ongoing commitment to carefully determine and fully address each client's specific needs. We always tailor our services to our clients' interests and circumstances. NAWC offers the full spectrum of weather modification services, ranging from basic research to feasibility studies and reviews of existing projects, and from start-up services to full-service operational projects. We offer the full range of cloud seeding capabilities, including ground-based and airborne seeding systems, appropriate support systems, and ground-based and airborne seeding plume tracking, using tracer technology. NAWC stands ready to address your specific weather modification interests. We can help.

[Edited 5/10/12 16:23pm]

ufoclub said:

Actually if you look up that 9-11 thread and even one older than that, I looked into every detail you and others were citing, and debunked everything, but first and foremost, the sources of misinformation you have blind faith in. You were never able to defend any of those points. I didn't even think you tried. Instead you post bogus false information from completely unreliable sources.

Look at this short bio of Ted Gunderson who was a member of "constitution party" (doesn't that make warning bells go off? Look it up):

"After retiring from the FBI, Gunderson set up a private investigation firm, Ted L. Gunderson and Associates, in Santa Monica. In 1980, he became a defense investigator for Green BeretDoctor Jeffrey R. MacDonald, who had been convicted of the 1970 murders of his pregnant wife and two daughters. Gunderson obtained affidavits from Helena Stoeckley confessing to her involvement in the murders.^[8]

In an interview (see link below), Gunderson discusses incidents U.S. government sponsored terrorism and the reasons behind them. He was a member of the Constitution Party. He died on July 31, 2011 from complications from cancer.

The last years of Ted Gunderson's life were spent warning people of what he called Chemtrails and of planetwide Satanic and New World Order conspiracies. Gunderson had identified military bases he said were responsible for dumping unidentified poisons around the world from unmarked aircraft which he indicated killed wildlife and perhaps even humans. Gunderson spent years speaking on this and has made a number of videos. He also claimed, at a 1995 conference in Dallas, that a "slave auction" in which children were sold to men in turbans had been held in Las Vegas, and that four thousand ritual human sacrifices are performed in New York City every year. He also claimed that the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was done by the United States government.^[9]"

So answer this one question after you read the above: Do you consider these statements by Ted Gunderson about chemtrails to be more valid than those by a current scientific (non government) , young, of sound mind, PHD level researcher I personally know that laughingly explained exactly what contrails are, and even recreates them for research?

You're right about there being false information and propoganda (most all of these scientifically, politically, and sociologocially impossible conspiracy theories), but you wrong in identifying which (ex) govt official is actually the crazy sinister one lying to you. Hint: He's dead now, but his initials are T.G.

you didn't debunk anything - you quoted government disinfo sites as i recall correctly. you also claimed there were no explosions at the base of the twin towers only for someome to then post a montage of clips of people - many covered in blood and debris - who were there saying they heard and felt explosions long before the towers came down - you had nothing to say to that so instead resorted to insults. nwo conspiracies are real - you've obviously much to learn. but i guess you'll spend your time making fun of others instead. classy

HotGritz said:

the whole planet is polluted. our air, our water, our soil. we're all gonna catch cooties simplex 19 and suffer collapsed lungs.

don't worry! it'll be okay 'cause Monsanto will just clone new lungs for everyone!!!

XxAxX said:.

it is a fact that chemicals are being delivered into our atmosphere aerially.

containing high levels of barium, aluminium and strontium which is killing plant life, animals and making thousands of humans ill with increased respiratory problems

---

The alarming decline in bee populations across the United States and Europe represents a potential ecological apocalypse, an environmental catastrophe that could collapse the food chain and wipe out humanity. Who and what is behind this flagrant abuse of the eco-system?

Many people don't realize the vital role bees play in maintaining a balanced eco-system. According to experts, if bees were to become extinct then humanity would perish after just four years.

"If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man," said Albert Einstein.

Others would say four years is alarmist and that man would find other food sources, but the fact remains that the disappearance of bees is potentially devastating to agriculture and most plant life.

Reports that bee populations are declining at rates of up to 80% in areas of the U.S. and Europe should set alarm bells ringing and demand immediate action on behalf of environmental organizations. Experts are calling the worrying trend "colony collapse disorder" or CCD.

"Bee numbers on parts of the east coast and in Texas have fallen by more than 70 percent, while California has seen colonies drop by 30 to 60 percent," reports AFP.

"Approximately 40 percent of my 2,000 colonies are currently dead and this is the greatest winter colony mortality I have ever experienced in my 30 years of beekeeping," apiarist Gene Brandi, from the California State Beekeepers Association, told Congress recently.

The article states that U.S. bee colonies have been dropping since 1980 and the number of beekeepers have halved.

Scientists are thus far stumped as to what is causing the decline, ruling out parasites but leaning towards some kind of new toxin or chemical used in agriculture as being responsible. "Experts believe that the large-scale use of genetically modified plants in the US could be a factor," reports Germany's Spiegal Online.

Bee populations throughout Germany have simultaneously dropped 25% and up to 80% in some areas. Poland, Switzerland and Spain are reporting similar declines. Studies have shown that bees are not dying in the hive, something is causing them to lose their sense of orientation so that they cannot return to the hive. Depleted hives are not being raided for their honey by other insects, which normally happens when bees naturally die in the winter, clearly suggesting some kind of poisonous toxin is driving them away.

"In many cases, scientists have found evidence of almost all known bee viruses in the few surviving bees found in the hives after most have disappeared. Some had five or six infections at the same time and were infested with fungi -- a sign, experts say, that the insects' immune system may have collapsed."

A study at the University of Jena from 2001 to 2004 showed that toxins from a genetically modified maize variant designed to repel insects, when combined with a parasite, resulted in a "significantly stronger decline in the number of bees" than normal.

"According to Hans-Hinrich Kaatz, a professor at the University of Halle in eastern Germany and the director of the study, the bacterial toxin in the genetically modified corn may have "altered the surface of the bee's intestines, sufficiently weakening the bees to allow the parasites to gain entry -- or perhaps it was the other way around. We don't know."

Kaatz was desperate to continue his studies but funding was cut off.

While we are lectured by government to change our lifestyle and cough up more taxes for the supposed peril of man-made global warming, an environmental catastrophe that could eliminate the human race in the figurative blink of an eye is looming.

Why are major environmental groups and lobbyists ignoring this mammoth threat to our very existence? Where is Greenpeace?

The hyperbole surrounding man-made global warming is swallowing up all the attention while real dangers like the rapid die-off of bee populations and its link to GM food is largely shunned by governments and activist foundations.

Is it a stretch to hypothesize that government mandated spraying of crops with deadly chemicals as well as toxic substances contained in chemtrails could be part of a deliberate program to eliminate the bee population? Or is this just another example of big business flagrantly abusing the eco-system in order to drive up profits?

The elite have publicly stated their desire to significantly reduce world population on numerous occasions. Just yesterday we featured a story about a British Government Ministry of Defense report that postulated on the future use of bio-weapons to thin the human population in under 30 years.

Making bees all but extinct would be a swift and plausibly deniable method of enacting global population reduction long dreamed of by the maniacal sociopaths that control the world.

Either way, this issue represents an overwhelming threat to the food chain and an environmental crime of the highest order, for which the perpetrators need to be brought up on charges of accessories to genocide, should a deliberate effort to endanger the food chain be proven, and the chemicals responsible immediately banned.

---

also - if you're so inclined - look into morgellons illness which many are linking to chemtrails

XxAxX said:

Genesia said:

Ah. So your outrage is selective. Gotcha.

selective or not it's still a valid point. why? here. check this out, perhaps when you do you will see why there really is such a thing as 'chemtrails'.

specifically note the bit about 'cloud seeding'. here is proof of meteorological technology being employed today, even advertised openly on the net. note that this outfit is a 'weather modification' service.

from: http://www.nawcinc.com/fastfacts.html

Incorporated in 1950, NAWC has nearly 60 years of continuous involvement in weather modification. NAWC was founded as a weather modification company. Weather modification has always been NAWC's primary specialty. NAWC is recognized internationally as a leader in the weather modification field, in research and operations. NAWC received the American Meteorological Society's prestigious "Award for Outstanding Services to Meteorology by a Corporation" in 1970 for pioneering the practice of private meteorology in the United States. NAWC has conducted weather modification projects and provided consulting services in many countries outside the United States, including Europe, South America, Central America, Asia, and the Middle East. Our weather modification activities and contributions are well known, through our hundreds of publications and reports. Our extensive client list includes hydroelectric utilities, government agencies, water districts, universities and private entities. NAWC's client satisfaction rating is consistently very high, due to NAWC's ongoing commitment to carefully determine and fully address each client's specific needs. We always tailor our services to our clients' interests and circumstances. NAWC offers the full spectrum of weather modification services, ranging from basic research to feasibility studies and reviews of existing projects, and from start-up services to full-service operational projects. We offer the full range of cloud seeding capabilities, including ground-based and airborne seeding systems, appropriate support systems, and ground-based and airborne seeding plume tracking, using tracer technology. NAWC stands ready to address your specific weather modification interests. We can help.

[Edited 5/10/12 16:16pm]

Comparing cloud seeding to the conspiracy theory of chemtrails and the interchangability of those two completely different items in conspiracy media are part of what devalues and debunks the chemtrail logic. Chemtrails are contrails which are obviously not the same thing as seeding clouds. Not the same planes, the same targets, the same appearance, or duration, or even scale.

Seeding a cloud is: is the attempt to change the precipitation that falls from clouds, by dispersing substances into the air that serve as cloud condensation or ice nuclei, which alter the microphysical processes within the cloud. The usual intent is to increase precipitation (rain or snow), but hail and fog suppression are also widely practiced in airports.

Cloud seeding is when a plane dumps material into a cloud. Contrails are artifiical lines of clouds created by planes visible in the sky when there are no clouds underneath them. Hence there is no cloud seeding going on in any of those pictures because that is not at all what is pictured.

If you look at the chemtrail video posted by "Scatwoman" HAARP which shows supposed chemtrail depositing, its first, a big commercial airplane, and second they laughingly circle the engines of the plane and mislabel them. All you have to do is read the comments to be more informed about the very videos Scatwoman posted to see how ridiculous they are. Post after post explains exactly what you are seeing. And some posts even explain the conspiracy buff phenonemon, as to why someone would beleive something so irrational, and such an obviously ineffective way to try to poison a population.

scatwoman said:

ufoclub said:

Actually if you look up that 9-11 thread and even one older than that, I looked into every detail you and others were citing, and debunked everything, but first and foremost, the sources of misinformation you have blind faith in. You were never able to defend any of those points. I didn't even think you tried. Instead you post bogus false information from completely unreliable sources.

Look at this short bio of Ted Gunderson who was a member of "constitution party" (doesn't that make warning bells go off? Look it up):

"After retiring from the FBI, Gunderson set up a private investigation firm, Ted L. Gunderson and Associates, in Santa Monica. In 1980, he became a defense investigator for Green BeretDoctor Jeffrey R. MacDonald, who had been convicted of the 1970 murders of his pregnant wife and two daughters. Gunderson obtained affidavits from Helena Stoeckley confessing to her involvement in the murders.^[8]

In an interview (see link below), Gunderson discusses incidents U.S. government sponsored terrorism and the reasons behind them. He was a member of the Constitution Party. He died on July 31, 2011 from complications from cancer.

The last years of Ted Gunderson's life were spent warning people of what he called Chemtrails and of planetwide Satanic and New World Order conspiracies. Gunderson had identified military bases he said were responsible for dumping unidentified poisons around the world from unmarked aircraft which he indicated killed wildlife and perhaps even humans. Gunderson spent years speaking on this and has made a number of videos. He also claimed, at a 1995 conference in Dallas, that a "slave auction" in which children were sold to men in turbans had been held in Las Vegas, and that four thousand ritual human sacrifices are performed in New York City every year. He also claimed that the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was done by the United States government.^[9]"

So answer this one question after you read the above: Do you consider these statements by Ted Gunderson about chemtrails to be more valid than those by a current scientific (non government) , young, of sound mind, PHD level researcher I personally know that laughingly explained exactly what contrails are, and even recreates them for research?

You're right about there being false information and propoganda (most all of these scientifically, politically, and sociologocially impossible conspiracy theories), but you wrong in identifying which (ex) govt official is actually the crazy sinister one lying to you. Hint: He's dead now, but his initials are T.G.

you didn't debunk anything - you quoted government disinfo sites as i recall correctly. you also claimed there were no explosions at the base of the twin towers only for someome to then post a montage of clips of people - many covered in blood and debris - who were there saying they heard and felt explosions long before the towers came down - you had nothing to say to that so instead resorted to insults. nwo conspiracies are real - you've obviously much to learn. but i guess you'll spend your time making fun of others instead. classy

There were no explosions at the base of the towers. TThere are thousands of witnesses, regular people that saw and felt no explosions before they came down. I even posted that one witness that conpiracy theorists quote as saying that he witnessed explosions, had himself said he was misquoted. He said it sounded like explosions, but he does not believe that there were actual explosions. Certainly parts of the building collapsing and falling within sound like incredibly loud impacts, which most people interpet as sounding like an explosion. That is exactly what that much material within the building would sound like.

But please answer the question I asked you. Do you believe that video you posted of Ted Gunderson? Have you in any way researched him out to find out if he was a reliable source of information? Do you know what he believed in?

^ chemtrails/contrails whatever. save your breath and your scorn as i'll save my time by merely skimming your post. . i'm simply talking about chemical agents introduced into the atmosphere.

ufoclub said:

scatwoman said:

you didn't debunk anything - you quoted government disinfo sites as i recall correctly. you also claimed there were no explosions at the base of the twin towers only for someome to then post a montage of clips of people - many covered in blood and debris - who were there saying they heard and felt explosions long before the towers came down - you had nothing to say to that so instead resorted to insults. nwo conspiracies are real - you've obviously much to learn. but i guess you'll spend your time making fun of others instead. classy

There were no explosions at the base of the towers. TThere are thousands of witnesses, regular people that saw and felt no explosions before they came down. I even posted that one witness that conpiracy theorists quote as saying that he witnessed explosions, had himself said he was misquoted. He said it sounded like explosions, but he does not believe that there were actual explosions. Certainly parts of the building collapsing and falling within sound like incredibly loud impacts, which most people interpet as sounding like an explosion. That is exactly what that much material within the building would sound like.

But please answer the question I asked you. Do you believe that video you posted of Ted Gunderson? Have you in any way researched him out to find out if he was a reliable source of information? Do you know what he believed in?

save your 'conspiracy theory' nonsense and head back to kindergarten.

i'm not answering any questions of yours - you're a liar and a bore

Genesia said:

Shorty said:

I don't know one way or the other

but the way some of you put down, finger point, laugh and make fun of those who even consider that contrails could be chemtrails is down right RUDE and mean bullying behavior.

it's one thing to have a discussion with different view points and disagreements but that didn't even have a chance of happening.

Yeah...no.

There have been plenty of rational explanations in this very thread of why the whole chemtrails idea is nonsense. It doesn't really have anything to do with "different view points." Sometimes, the thing is true or it isn't. (In this case, it isn't.)

just curious, who are you to be the final authority as to whether something is true or not? You are not the expert you believe yourself to be, as evidenced by a few of your posts regarding how chemtrails may or may not have come to be in the videos presented. It is the height of ignorance to casually write off something as false simply because what has been presented does not convince you and your point of view.

scatwoman said:

save your 'conspiracy theory' nonsense and head back to kindergarten.

i'm not answering any questions of yours - you're a liar and a bore

And there you have it.

Remember this is the same person that just claimed earlier in the thread:

"you had nothing to say to that so instead resorted to insults." - Scatwoman

[Edited 5/10/12 20:24pm]

macinusaf67 said:

Following was posted on 60 Mintues as possible explanation for making F-22 pilots sick. Prince is so smart.

"I would put money on the fact that the MAIN reason these pilots are experiencing these difficulties during flight is because of CHEMTRAILS! Over 90% of the population has no idea what they are, but all one needs to do is look up into the skies and you will see them. We all have been sprayed since the early 1990's with toxic chemicals and these nano-sized particles of aluminum, barium and approximately 40 other toxic chemicals and heavy metals cannot be filtered out by ANY filters, even charcoal filters. The government has been carrying out this genocide all in the guise of stopping "global warming". Thousands of people are becoming critically ill (esp in the eastern NC area) due to daily saturation of this "geo-engineering". This issue was brought before the 107th Congress as the "Space Preservation Act of 2001" by Congressman Dennis Kucinich (H.R. 2977), but was never passed. I tried to speak with Ms Stahl yesterday by phone but of course she was unavailable. I will not give up until this genocide is stopped. Public Law 105-85 declares that spraying chemicals and biological agents on US citizens is perfectly legal, EVEN IF IT CAUSES PERMANENT INJURY OR DEATH! If you breathe the air, you are being affected. Chemtrails affect your health, your memory, your relationships, your emotions and EVERY body system. THIS IS WHAT IS AFFECTING THESE PILOTS as the air is coming into the jets and not being able to be filtered out. See www.globalskywatch.com and do all you can to stop the genocide NOW to prevent the deaths of the 200 F-22 fighter pilots and possibly the hundreds of thousands of people who live in the metropolitan areas of where these bases are (Norfolk, VA, FLA, CA, etc.) You may not think this isn't affecting you, but if you breathe, you are being affected! Call your Congressman, Senators and anyone else who can take action on this NOW!"

The obvious questions:

1) Why are there planes regularly flying in # patterns over residential areas and what is the purpose?

2) Where is the official quotation from the US government stating the bolded above? If that statement can be confirmed then there can be no argument that they are releasing an unconfirmed mix of chemicals into the air for a questionable purpose.

Note: I haven't had time to read/view all the links in the thread.

Lianachan said:

djThunderfunk said:

What do you think about what's published here: http://coto2.wordpress.co...%E2%80%99/

I'll address yours one section at a time if you'll do the same for the above.

I think the chemtrail patterns I have seen in the sky for the last 15 years bear little resemblance to the contrails I've seen for over 40 years and still see from planes. Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes. Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance. They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

It's not the same thing.

[Edited 5/10/12 9:37am]

You've managed to list the main misconceptions that lie at the crux of the whole chemtrail notion, there.

Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes

Not always.

Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance

Contrails can do this if the conditions are right.

They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

Yup. Just like contrails can.

Not always.

Well, every one I saw between 1970 and somewhere around 1997 or so did disappear within minutes. Many I see today do as well. Except for when they are crisscrossing the sky making X's.

Contrails can do this if the conditions are right.

They didn't in the 70's, 80's or early 90's. At least none I ever saw.

Yup. Just like contrails can.

Here's the thing, in my town, all the planes circle the city until landing at the airport. A few times a week I see several planes, much higher up than those coming & going from the airport, deliberately flying in crisscross paterns making X's or #'s in the sky. The X's & #s spread out making a hazy cloudlike smoggy looking sky within a couple hours. I've lived in the same town most of my life, this wasn't happening until about 15 years ago.

ufoclub said:

djThunderfunk said:

What do you think about what's published here: http://coto2.wordpress.co...%E2%80%99/

I'll address yours one section at a time if you'll do the same for the above.

I think the chemtrail patterns I have seen in the sky for the last 15 years bear little resemblance to the contrails I've seen for over 40 years and still see from planes. Contrails disappear behind the plane within minutes. Chemtrails instead thicken and spread out forming a hazy cloudlike appearance. They also always appear in crisscross paterns forming X's or #'s in the sky.

It's not the same thing.

[Edited 5/10/12 9:37am]

Just the first paragraph of your link lists "an international symposium held in Ghent, Belgium May 28-30, 2010,scientists" without any link to a website of the event, a name for it, or even what type of experts were there, simply calling them "scientists" in the same way a cartoon would." Does this not make you suspicious about the validity of this article? I tried to google that information because if any kind of reputable sympsosium took place, there would be a record of it, and some kind of nuetral mention of it in a non conspiracy theory site. Every link that came up was the same quote, and every one was a consipiracy "entertainment" site.

And a few paragraphs down it cites a Dr. Coen Vermeeren who has a website at http://www.coenvermeeren.nl/

If you click that link you then find his website in another language, but the first header reads: Past and Presence of Unidentified Flying Objects

Does this not make you suspicious of the validity of Dr. Coen? And then in turn even further suspicious of the article that cites him as an expert?

Regardless of the validity, or lack thereof, of the site, any debunking of chemtrails which insists that the crisscross paterns are normal air traffic is also invalid.

I don't know what's going on. I only know there is a pattern of crisscrossing the sky which results in an ugly, hazy sky for hours.

ufoclub said:

Actually if you look up that 9-11 thread and even one older than that, I looked into every detail you and others were citing, and debunked everything

Off topic I know, but, I would love to know how you explain Building 7. Even the 9/11 Commision wouldn't touch it.

[Edited 5/10/12 22:26pm]

djThunderfunk said:

ufoclub said:

Actually if you look up that 9-11 thread and even one older than that, I looked into every detail you and others were citing, and debunked everything

Off topic I know, but, I would love to know how you explain Building 7. Even the 9/11 Commision wouldn't touch it.

[Edited 5/10/12 22:26pm]

The commision didn't care about building 7 because there is no mystery. Here's an email response from the fire chief at that time when informed that there was a mystery existing to conspiracy theorists:

Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

I'll send you a private message with a link so you can check out more on this and decide on your own by comparing the validity of reoprts names and citations of both sides. This person actually contacted witnesses and true experts himself to find the truth. And what he found out was there was no controversy about building 7 with anyone that was there and dealing with it.

But 9/11 is off topic for this thread.

___________

I really want people who believe in chemtrails to start going over the evidence point by point. I started by checking out that video Scatwoman posted and easily found out what a joke that man was in the days of his retirement. But is Scatwoman going to even admit or investigate the validity of this "expert"? No. and what would the reason be for that? Denial of the truth? Perhaps not just that, but also a need for the romanticisation and melodrama that these theories color their realities with.