I will not even waste a second reading this article.

I spanked my children when they were little. I didn't draw blood, I didn't bruise anybody, no yelling...didn't need it often either.\

my children (now teens) are awesome.

This study is a bunch of balony by somebody who doesn't believe in spanking.

I believe that people in general overstate the effectiveness of punishment and undervalue the effectiveness of rewards – not just in parenting, but in anything. I’m not a parent (I'm sure as a non-parent I'm opening myself up to cries of sanctimony & STFUs), never want to be one, but most of what I’ve read has suggested that positive reinforcement is more effective than punishment in promoting good behaviour.

In general, if a person does something notably bad – worse than one would expect based on that person’s history – their subsequent actions will likely be better just by expectation of regression to the mean. If an average student does poorly on one exam, his next exam result is likely to be better – that’s just normal variation, the kinds of patterns we expect to see in all behaviour. It’s very easy for a parent to punish a child for bad behaviour, see the child improve and interpret that to mean their punishment was effective when all that’s really happened is that the child has reverted to its average behaviour.

Similarly, if a child does something extraordinarily well, and the parent rewards them in some way (with a treat, with praise, whatever), they’re likely going to see a decline in performance from the child, and interpret this to mean that rewarding or coddling children will not motivate them to do well.

I have a very hard time believing that spanking generally does anything effective, and I definitely think a lot of people misinterpret random behavioural variation when gauging its usefulness. That said, I can certainly see why parents would want to keep that arrow in their quiver - not as a reliable everyday part of their arsenal, but as a extreme response to the most extreme misbehaviours.

[Edited 2/8/12 5:02am]

kimrachell said:

i don't spank my son, i don't need to, there are other ways for us to solve problems or issues than hitting.

To those that got spanked as kids: What was it about the spanking that eventually made you stop acting a fool?

VenusBlingBling said:

To those that got spanked as kids: What was it about the spanking that eventually made you stop acting a fool?

Timmy84 said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

My parents never laid a hand on me and I turned out rather well, if I do say so myself.

My mom used to whip me good with her belt but stopped once she saw how easily I bruised. She felt real bad. But I still was acting up. I stopped acting up so much when I got in trouble at 7 and she sent me to my room and told me to NEVER come out because I was crying about...nothing. After that, I didn't do that no more.

Well, I never really have my parents a reason to hit me. I was one of those quiet kids who never said much...

I was a silent trouble maker.

Doesn't mean I got away with it. My parents had a way of making me feel so bad (usually just by talking to me), they didn't need to hit me. Needless to say, I never misbehaved again.I got grounded only once...and taht was when I was caught joy riding at age 12 and got pulled over.

I think that kind of discipline speaks volumes. At least it did to me. And I suppose spanking only works in certain cases. My grandma would hit her kids with a shoe...and only 1 out of 3 turned out ok (my mother. I personally don't think she was a trouble maker but hey, I wasn't there.). My uncles are still damn hooligans.

I get where folks are trying to go with these studies. I've even had my grandmother talk to me about passing on the slave mentality to my kids as far as discipline goes and I can very well see the point, and I agreed with her. But these studies do seem to come with more blinders than actual solutions to real life problems that a range of people face when raising their kids.

I came across this when reading about the heighten aggression due to spanking.

So do we all just dump having older male children because a study show that having one may increase aggressivness.

I'm also leary about these studies because I'm not sure how valid they really are. After clicking the link to one of the highlights in the article I got this.

I never think the studies they do are at all 100% accurate.

I don't know about any study... but as a parent of 3 great kids I know one thing.

When you deal with kids in anger... no matter what you do it will hurt them in the long run.

Aggression and trauma happen when a parent allows their frustration to come out in an angry state at a child.

Anger is why a parent will lock up a child in a closet for hours.

Anger is why a parent will bruise a child.

Anger is why a parent will say hurtful words to a child that will scar that kid for a lifetime.

You don't have to spank a child in order to mess them up, all you have to do is deal out your anger to a child and they will turn out messed up.

Anger and lack of patience is what causes problems for a child... it the main reason why a parent will not effectively communicate with a child to get a child to understand what is needed from them in a reasonable and healthy way.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

My parents never laid a hand on me and I turned out rather well, if I do say so myself.

That's not an objective opinion.

It should NEVER be done every time there is a conflict, disagreement and out of anger. It's important to be verbal as much as possible and using time outs and punishments. But though I don't condone violence, I think spanking is okay in some circumstances if it's for something really bad or risky, like if the child is about to play with matches or fire when they are young and saying 'no' isn't enough and not working for example. I think locking them up is horrible though a corner or putting their head down in silence is okay. And overall in parenting, I think positive reinforcement in the formative years is so crucial to their development so they're made to feel worthy later on in life, even when they have made mistakes and made parents angry.

And speaking of Joseph, though he overdid it and it emotionally affected Michael, what he did for those boys kept them out of trouble and from associating with the neighborhood kids, and MJ himself has said that in Moonwalk.

[Edited 2/8/12 21:32pm]

paintedlady said:

I don't know about any study... but as a parent of 3 great kids I know one thing.

When you deal with kids in anger... no matter what you do it will hurt them in the long run.

Aggression and trauma happen when a parent allows their frustration to come out in an angry state at a child.

Anger is why a parent will lock up a child in a closet for hours.

Anger is why a parent will bruise a child.

Anger is why a parent will say hurtful words to a child that will scar that kid for a lifetime.

You don't have to spank a child in order to mess them up, all you have to do is deal out your anger to a child and they will turn out messed up.

Anger and lack of patience is what causes problems for a child... it the main reason why a parent will not effectively communicate with a child to get a child to understand what is needed from them in a reasonable and healthy way.

I agree with all of this too, especially about emotional scars.

I find it funny that Michael (and maybe Janet) are the only ones who throw Joseph under the bus. All the other kids (even LaToya) defend him. He was a hard worker who provided for his children, if it wasn't for Josheph their wouldn't even BE a Michael Jackson. His stans are so delusional. The comments are youtube are just awful, they say stuff like "I hate him for what he did to Michael" and "He only beat Michael." Maybe MJ is just a drama queen. Ever think of that?

Terrib3Towel said:

I find it funny that Michael (and maybe Janet) are the only ones who throw Joseph under the bus. All the other kids (even LaToya) defend him. He was a hard worker who provided for his children, if it wasn't for Josheph their wouldn't even BE a Michael Jackson. His stans are so delusional. The comments are youtube are just awful, they say stuff like "I hate him for what he did to Michael" and "He only beat Michael." Maybe MJ is just a drama queen. Ever think of that?

All fans are not alike. I can tell you that there are fans out there like myself that acknowledge times Michael has credited his dad as a genius and made peace with him. That didn't mean he had to leave money for him either in his will....he does live in Vegas after all and his children and mother need it more. I think it's awful how he behaved after his death and was forcing him to perform though, putting more pressure on him, I don't condone that. I love mj as a person and musician, but yes he was also a big drama queen sometimes and a master at work, and it was amusing as hell(looking back now that is, when I was in my teens I thought that masks were uncool though later on I just rolled my eyes and laughed with him for being a clown), though sometimes I could identify with his vulnerabilities too.

Oh and I think people who write comments about this might be very young or got into him after his death and are going by what they heard in the media about Joseph's discipline and abuse, or from hearing about it over and over since his major interviews. They wouldn't know about the Oxford interview and footages of them together in recent years and Bashir outtakes, and it's their ignorance, not the entire population of MJ fans.

[Edited 2/8/12 22:21pm]

ScarletScandal said:

ALL of ya'll need your asses beat.

banks said:

VenusBlingBling said:

To those that got spanked as kids: What was it about the spanking that eventually made you stop acting a fool?

The fear of getting another

SUPRMAN said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

My parents never laid a hand on me and I turned out rather well, if I do say so myself.

That's not an objective opinion.

Do I look like I was trying to give one?

I was using my own life as a reason as to why I will never spank my children.

But hell...I'll give you a paddlin'

Timmy84 said:

I never think the studies they do are at all 100% accurate.

Some have a few unanswered questions. Who knows if a variety of techniques are best or if one technique is better, where are those studies? I think it's the sensationalized headlines that are the issue. I just read a few months ago a popular pro-spanking book came out on the market with it's own studies, so I'm wondering if there just going to be this back and forth one up-man thing tug-a-war happening.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

SUPRMAN said:

That's not an objective opinion.

Do I look like I was trying to give one?

I was using my own life as a reason as to why I will never spank my children.

But hell...I'll give you a paddlin'

morningsong said:

Timmy84 said:

I never think the studies they do are at all 100% accurate.

Some have a few unanswered questions. Who knows if a variety of techniques are best or if one technique is better, where are those studies? I think it's the sensationalized headlines that are the issue. I just read a few months ago a popular pro-spanking book came out on the market with it's own studies, so I'm wondering if there just going to be this back and forth one up-man thing tug-a-war happening.

It might be. Most studies seem to be biased...

I just want to add to this thread - for whatever it's worth - that the most aggressive/violent child I have ever known was my ex's student (she used to be a one-on-one Teacher's Assistant) who was never beaten, but rather his parents would discipline him by witholding food and affection (he'd get locked in his bedroom).

Although as a troubled second-grader, they still saw it fitting to give him Grand Theft Auto for Christmas.